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Does anyone know who job is it to remove the snow from the sidewalks of the avenues such as Gratiot, Grand River, Michigan, Woodward, and so on. So many pedestrians and those riding on wheelchairs are walking or riding in the streets for the sidewalks had not been plowed. The city would be in for a lawsuit if one of them was to get hit by a vehicle
I always removed the snow from the sidewalks of property I owned, and I usually did my neighbors, also, as a courtesy. But that was a different Detroit, in a galaxy far, far away......................
The property owners are responsible, like in residential areas.
Ray1936 is right.
Unfortunately, Detroit is unique where majority of the properties along its commercial streets are vacant, and the city's so cash-strapped that it doesn't have the resources to force these property owners to remove the snow/ice from their sidewalks.
Well since we're talking snow... a few years back a DYES'er posted this... and it bears reposting... ;)
The infamous Detroit "X" rated parking structure....
here's the thing, the building owners are still responsible for clearing the sidewalks, so the city can add fine after fine and then take the buildings. [[I still think the banks on the bankruptcy should just be given tracts of buildings that went into tax foreclosure, they would then fail to maintain them and the city could grab tons of fines)Quote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
What you say is definitely an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb336
But then it's then a matter of whether or not those fines can ever be collected as they add up. Would all of the expensive litigation be worth it just to collect what may only add up to maybe several million dollars in fines?
Recently I saw a report that some community sent out notices that it was going to require homeowners to shovel snow off the street in front of their house or else they'd have to pay a fine.
[[Sorry, I searched but couldn't find a link to this story. Maybe it's a hoax.)
This would be a profoundly stupid idea. It would only work if everyone complied. It might be nice if everyone complied but we all know that not everyone would comply. It would result in a patchwork of snow removal. It's a classic example of extremist libertarian failure.
Dumb, dumber and dumbest. :p
I heard this morning Brenda Jones is going to be walking the streets and blowing hot air on everyone's sidewalk.
thats probably more likely in response to all the lovely people who own snowblowers and are kind enough to deposit all the snow from their driveways directly into roadways that motorists are trying to use, assuming that "oh, the plow guy will take care of it."Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
^%&$#%#@ those people.
I think that was actually one of the wealthier burbsQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
Lyon Twp IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb336
On the subject of snow[[&the Lyon Twp case&snow removal in genergal) my parents bought a home Detroit proper in the late 50s&as far as I know they always saw to it the sidewalks surrounding their home were shoveled&salted. This was done up until the time of my mom's passing[['02). When I was old enough either I or another male member of the family would clear the walkways. When we didn't feel like doing it we'd pay someone to do. However&whoever did the shoveling my family knew since we lived there it was up to us to keep all sidewalks surrounding our home cleared.
I lived in Detroit up until '10 and all the homeowners/residents&buisness owners/tenants in every neighborhood I lived in shoveled/cleard the walkways boardering their homes. I always assumed/thought it was the law.
I now live in outlying city in the Metro area&continue to be amazed how resisdents&buisnes owners/tenants seem to think they've no obligation to clear the walkways around their locations. My first year in my new city almost 97% of all sidewalks were always cleared. Each year that number seems to drop. It's so bad this year that I'm almost surprised when I DO see a cleared sidewalk in front of/around a neighborhood home or a buisness[[e.g.banks,auto stores,gas stations,restaurants,etc). Case in point I was at a bank on Ten Mile&Van Dyke and NONE of the sidewalks around the bank were cleared[[actually none of the sidewalks on either side of VD going north or south had been cleared;same for Ten Mile in both directions). I was on the verge of chalking it up to 'how things are now'&saying nothing about it until I saw a man in a wheelchair forced to wheel himself down the middle of Ten Mile because the sidewalks were impassable. The man had no legs! It broke my heart to see this.
I stopped in the bank planning to talk to the manager about the sidewalks but was intercepted by a very nice woman at a front desk. When I asked about the sidewalks&who was responsible for clearing them[[though I was sure I knew the answer to the question)she smiled&told me "that's the city's job". I spent a few hours on the phone with municipal employees trying to find out who was charged with shoveling. Later that evening the city manger called. I explained to him my reason for being such a pest about the sidewalks in his city. I also told him about the man with no legs&pointed out what a huge liability to his city an accident, because of obstructed, sidewalks could be.
He was very pleasant and informed it was the job of buisness owners/tenants&residents to clear the sidewalks[[which is what I've always thought).
I beg pardon for being so long winded here but to bring back on point of the thread unless I'm mistaken or unless it varies from place to place I believe it's the duty of buisness residents to clear the sidewalks around their establishments. Same goes for residents.
Now I'm not sure who the responsibily falls on if the buisness is vacant[[maybe the owner of that building or the city??).
P.S.Again I apologize for being so long winded.
The responsibility for clearing sidewalks has always been on the property owners [[or their tenants) in Detroit. For most of us, the sidewalks are actually on our land with an easement for public use.
In the bad ol' days the city actually used to issue tickets for failure to clear snow in a timely fashion. Of course now, with so many vacant and missing homes and empty businesses, the snow just piles up and sits there, and the sidewalks become impassible. And, partially as a consequence of the lost revenue from the huge number of non-tax-paying properties, there is no way the city can afford to clear the sidewalks or enforce the law. More of the viscous cycle economics of life in Detroit.
Ten Mile and Van Dyke is a Bank of America branch, trotwood. They're morons to start with.
That's correct Ray. That is a BOA branch&I think I agree with your assement lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1936
I am fairly certain that the clearing sidewalks by owners rule is a Statewide thing, but it is up to the locals to enforce.
http://www.justanswer.com/law/11amx-...state-law.html
In Detroit, the property owner or resident has 24 hours to remove the snow or ice, or apply salt, sand, or some other "approved" material.
https://www.detroitmi.gov/?TabId=2725
50-8-2
REMOVAL OF SNOW, ICE, ETC. FROM PRIVATE PROPERTY ONTO PAVED ROADWAY IS PROHIBITED
No person shall plow, shovel, brush or heap up any snow, ice or other materials from private properties, other than residential, onto the paved roadway of any street or highway.
[[C.O. 1954, ch. 330, & 20; Ord. No. 551-F, & 1)
I remember clearing our sidewalk ASAP only to see the street plow throw snow back over what I had cleared. Note that none of that thrown snow was what I had removed. And they used to come by in the wee hours of the AM and that shit was froze solid. But that's part of doing one's duty with respect to a community. So it was back out there with some choice swear words. I always thought snow shoveling was great exercise. One area I did digress from the above law was when the completely plowed in our drive access to the street. Some of that went back out in the street where it came from. In MD, a few years back we had 32 inches in a 24 hour span. I had to take a shovel bite and carry it to a location that was away from our street parking. It took me 7 hours to clear out my car space. Back in my Detroit days, I remember that one stepped right onto the bus from that high solid mound of ice that formed from snow plowed on 7 Mile. I took the 7 Mile-Hamilton to WSU during the cold winter months when I was not sure about my cars {they were used bombs} ability to start. One time, for a change, I took the 6 Mile bus to the stop on Bentler. The mound there was very high and slippery. I noted that one could easily slip back under the bus. A week later, that happened to a youth at that very stop. He was crushed to death because the driver did not see him fall. We are all in this world together. So try to keep your property safe for others.
Hmmmm, I suddenly have this strange urge to go out and "shovel", you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Many boulevards or streets have islands in the middle of them. The sidewalks could be cleared of snow but the sidewalk that are at the edge of the middle islands are not cleared. Gratiot has an island between Russell and Jay. Third has an island so does Livernois. Those sidewalk has snow on the and the snow remover just pile the snow on that part of the sidewalk that crosses the islands. The forces anyone who is in a wheelchair visually impaired, or anyone to go into the streets being in danger of traffic
Cleaning those sidewalks would fall under the responsibility of a bankrupt city.Quote:
Originally Posted by stasu1213
the sidewalks are being cleared but the sidewalk the cut through the island is ignored then the clearing of the snow starts back again on the other side of the streetQuote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
LOL When my friend is having a bad day and has to trudge through snow, he'll call 311 on all the building landlords and homeowners that don't shovel their sidewalksQuote:
Originally Posted by rb336
Later comes back to see bright orange $50 fines on their doors.
Failure to shovel snow is inexcusable. As some mentioned it makes it next to impossible for the elderly and disabled.