Group plans to protest, appeal Detroit bankruptcy plan... AGAIN?

"Detroit pensioners and residents sounded off on bankruptcy judge Steven Rhodes approval of the city's plan of adjustment.
They say the $7 billion worth of debt cutting comes on the backs of city workers. The group gathered at St. Peter's Episcopal Church where Rev. Bill Wylie Kellerman says Rhodes gave sanction to illegitimate government.
"Judges and governors, managers and their mayors, banks and corporations and foundations even the corporate media stand under the judgment of God," Kellerman said. "It's illegal, immoral and it's a crime."
William Davis from Detroit Active and retired employee association says the group plans on appealing judge Rhodes' ruling".

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/27347781/group-plans-to-protest-appeal-detroit-bankruptcy-plan

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Originally Posted by Vic01

"Detroit pensioners and residents sounded off on bankruptcy judge Steven Rhodes approval of the city's plan of adjustment.
They say the $7 billion worth of debt cutting comes on the backs of city workers. The group gathered at St. Peter's Episcopal Church where Rev. Bill Wylie Kellerman says Rhodes gave sanction to illegitimate government.
"Judges and governors, managers and their mayors, banks and corporations and foundations even the corporate media stand under the judgment of God," Kellerman said. "It's illegal, immoral and it's a crime."
William Davis from Detroit Active and retired employee association says the group plans on appealing judge Rhodes' ruling".

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/27347781/group-plans-to-protest-appeal-detroit-bankruptcy-plan

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Did I miss something, or didn't the city workers and pensioners come out pretty well compared to the banks?

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Did I miss something, or didn't the city workers and pensioners come out pretty well compared to the banks?

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They want their COL adjustments and their 13th checks restored.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

They want their COL adjustments and their 13th checks restored.

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I can understand COLA, and I can understand the argument against reductions in the pension at all, but can anyone help me understand the moral argument for restoration of the '13th monthly check'.

If they get paid for 160 hours every four weeks, they should get a 13th check. 52/4=13.

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Originally Posted by jcole

If they get paid for 160 hours every four weeks, they should get a 13th check. 52/4=13.

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Huh?? Does that mean all retirees should get a 13th Social Security check as well? Of course not...

Pension payments are MONTHLY [[as are Social Security checks)... and during those years that there was a surplus in the Pension Fund... the pensioners got that 13th check... it was NOT an every year event. The big mistake was ever sending them out during the boom years... rather than save the money for the lean years... :[[

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Huh?? Does that mean all retirees should get a 13th Social Security check as well? Of course not...

Pension payments are MONTHLY [[as are Social Security checks)... and during those years that there was a surplus in the Pension Fund... the pensioners got that 13th check... it was NOT an every year event. The big mistake was ever sending them out during the boom years... rather than save the money for the lean years... :[[

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the biggest thing we need to take out of this is that pensions are a terrible idea and they are unsustainable. everyone should pay into a 401k and social security. It will be better for everyone in the end.

chicago will soon find out as their pension obligations and debt top 40 billion.

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Originally Posted by jcole

If they get paid for 160 hours every four weeks, they should get a 13th check. 52/4=13.

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The 13th check was when the pension fund performed well. They would divide the extra money up among the pensioners.

The big issues was that when the pension fund under-performed that the fund just ate it.

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Originally Posted by hewettbr

the biggest thing we need to take out of this is that pensions are a terrible idea and they are unsustainable. everyone should pay into a 401k and social security. It will be better for everyone in the end.

chicago will soon find out as their pension obligations and debt top 40 billion.

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I totally agree. I think of them of like Ponzi schemes.

And heaven forbid you try to properly fund them like Snyder did, you'll get attacked for thinking too far into the future.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Did I miss something, or didn't the city workers and pensioners come out pretty well compared to the banks?

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If they did appeal, it could be a remarkably stupid decision, especially for the stakeholders they purport to represent.

The 6th Circuit CoA, if they heard the appeal, which they might not, would stand a really good chance of supporting the concept of pension reductions in bankruptcy. In that case, holders under other pensions [[Wayne County comes to mind) could get their pensions slashed. It might actually drive more municipalities into bankruptcy. Counsel may want to think about that before proceeding.

I thought all the retiree's associations supported the deal, but I guess not.

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Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy

If they did appeal, it could be a remarkably stupid decision, especially for the stakeholders they purport to represent.

The 6th Circuit CoA, if they heard the appeal, which they might not, would stand a really good chance of supporting the concept of pension reductions in bankruptcy. In that case, holders under other pensions [[Wayne County comes to mind) could get their pensions slashed. It might actually drive more municipalities into bankruptcy. Counsel may want to think about that before proceeding.

I thought all the retiree's associations supported the deal, but I guess not.

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Thanks, BG -- but not sure how pension reductions would 'drive' municipalities into bankruptcy. I do understand that it would be a financial advantage to the city, but I wouldn't think an inducement. The inducement would be the burden of the pensions?

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Originally Posted by Vic01

"Detroit pensioners and residents sounded off on bankruptcy judge Steven Rhodes approval of the city's plan of adjustment.
They say the $7 billion worth of debt cutting comes on the backs of city workers. The group gathered at St. Peter's Episcopal Church where Rev. Bill Wylie Kellerman says Rhodes gave sanction to illegitimate government.
"Judges and governors, managers and their mayors, banks and corporations and foundations even the corporate media stand under the judgment of God," Kellerman said. "It's illegal, immoral and it's a crime."
William Davis from Detroit Active and retired employee association says the group plans on appealing judge Rhodes' ruling".

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/27347781/group-plans-to-protest-appeal-detroit-bankruptcy-plan

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Were there even 15 protesters there?

I could get more people to show up at my apartment for dinner on Friday...

I don't think there is another issue in Detroit that could mobilize fewer supporters than the anti-bankruptcy movement.

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Originally Posted by erikd

Were there even 15 protesters there?

I could get more people to show up at my apartment for dinner on Friday...

I don't think there is another issue in Detroit that could mobilize fewer supporters than the anti-bankruptcy movement.

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Belle Isle take-over protest?

These protesters need to quite whining. Judge Groves made his decision and Detroit will be out of an historic bankruptcy. Get used to the New Detroit folks. White folks are moving in, black folks are moving out. Real regional business and jobs, jobs, jobs are coming in. Poor welfare and food stamps folks are out. They need to get real, go back to school, graduate and get a job. Society today is a rat race! Either you get the cheese or be lost in the maze.

Give about 25 to 50 years and the welfare and food stamp dark ages will be gone and privatized! Get a job fellas while you're young, healthy and strong. Like the Bible says:
'If you don't work, you don't eat!'