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It can be somewhat nerve-wracking at a family gathering when people routinely drive 65 mph down side streets and the kids are playing outside. In Toledo, Chicago, and throughout Mexico speed bumps are commonly used to deter speeding in residential areas. I've read that Michigan does not use them routinely because of liability concerns, but I think it would be worth reconsidering as an inexpensive solution to protecting kids when police are few and far between. Thoughts?
In Michigan we use potholes for that purpose. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by milesdriven
I deal with enough potholes and rutted blacktop in Detroit. I don't think I would notice the difference if they were there. :D
Seriously, in residential areas greater enforcement of residential speed limits would be a more suitable deterrent.
Very true, Warrenite..but unfortunately the police cannot patrol the residential streets on a regular basis. I know that Georgia Street, where GSCC's garden and community center are, is just awful for speeding. It is a through street for at least a half mile, and the cars go by so fast it terrifies me. When we have events for the children, we have to stand in the street to protect the kids. We would be happy with a couple of stop signs, although they barely slow down for those either.
Ann Arbor has them for streets used as cut-throughs, so I don't think it's a state issue. My street has them, and I'm happy, because people used to go down it at 50 mph. There was a hue and cry at the beginning, but it's basically died down.
Speed bumps are great here in the Chi. People drive much slower in the neighborhoods [[about 15 mph) And because of the slower speeds, they are much more aware of kids playing, bicyclists, pedestrians, and people getting out of cars.
I don't think they are any sort of liability for the city. Heck, if the road collapses and your car gets swallowed up, the city usually says "too bad" hope you got good insurance. Try to get them to pay your deductible? That could take forever.
The mini roundabouts and stanchions in the center of intersections seem to help people slow down too. There's occasionally some story of a reckless or drunk driver speeding through on a residential street and totaling their car on the concrete pillar in the middle of an intersection. Better they hit that than a person. If any city can legally place obstructions in the middle of the street with very little warning signage, I'm positive speed bumps are not an issue.
To anyone who has ever lived in St. Clair Shores, you will know that most residential streets [[that are not newly repaved) are one huge speed bump. Because the city was built on what was once a swamp, the city is literally an ocean of clay. Most streets have some buckling, and fast speeds are not good for your shocks.
I was clocked by a SCS officer once going 31MPH down one of the residential streets there once... and when he pulled me over he asked if I knew that I had exceeded the 25MPH speed. I told him "yes sir I did... and that this 1 block stretch of roadway was one of only 3 or 4 residential streets in our city that this can be attained without shock damage". He laughed and let me go on a warning....
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
There's a speed-hole on NB Mt. Elliot over I-94!
We don't have them because DPWs and Fire Departments would complain too much. Speed Bumps are difficult to plow. Other speed slowing treatments such as chicaines or small traffic circles impede the firetrucks like speedbumps but also mess with radii at intersections.
Since the DPW owns the roads and works closely with the fire departments, this will mean that they will do things in thier best interest. In order to remedy this a city might want to adopt performance measures that look at reducing subdivision speed to 25 or reduce traffic accidents. That might not fly either as in my parent's neighborhood many of the 4-way stops have been de-signed due to changes in the MUTCD [[Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices). This brings the engineers and lawyers into the picture.
While the idea for speed bumps and other traffic control devices is a good one, they are but one piece of the puzzle.
The most effective ways to reduce speed? On street parking, kids playing in the street, and painting bike lanes makes the road seem n arrower so folks drive slower. Unfortunately, no one wants the answer to be tell you children to play in traffic!
1. Modern speed bumps do not impede emergency traffic flow. First they are not located on cross streets, collectors, or other major avenues. This means a fire truck or ambulance may encounter 1 or 2 at most. They are also designed with "gaps" that allow a fire truck or city bus level passage, but not a regular car or truck. Most bicyclists are aware of this, because the gaps allow them cruise past the speed bumps much easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
2. The benefits of lives saved by slower traffic are greater than the rare chances of a fatality due to 10 seconds of later response time. While it's true speed bumps can slow response time in a localized situation, it's inconclusive overall in urban areas whether it's bad for emergency response in general....reason being fire trucks and ambulances usually slow down at intersections and some of those intersections are frequently blocked by traffic jams in larger cities.
3. The roundabouts are designed with collapsable stanchions surrounding the permanent obstruction. They'll scratch up a regular car if you hit them, but a fire truck can drive over them without any damage. Regardless, these roundabouts have been designed on older narrow residential streets here to allow passage of a semi truck or school bus.....so I'm really not sure what kind of roundabouts you are thinking of dp.
4. Modern sinusoidal speed bumps do not damage plows.
5. People complain about them being ineffective just because they aren't used to seeing them. Everyone will have something different to say. But when it comes down to the bottom line, traffic slows down on a residential street.
BTW, of all the places I lived, the whole block of residents has to be in consensus and file a request with the alderman for their installation.
Except for kids playing in the street which you seem to equate with traffic cones and signage, the other options do have their benefits. But I'm going to guess that not every neighborhood in Detroit has a complete street lined with cars.Quote:
On street parking, kids playing in the street, and painting bike lanes makes the road seem n arrower so folks drive slower.
I was just thinking the other day that the since the population density of Detroit has gone down, it would make sense to raise some of the speed limits.
I vaguely recall Phoenix using a radical solution to the residential speeding problem.
At the intersection of two through streets they would construct a diagonal berm barrier effectively cutting the intersection into two disconnected L-shaped streets. After that, neither street was "though."
It was controversial. Most residents loved it because it brought an immediate end to the non-local speeding problem. Others hated it because even non-speeding local traffic was forced to go way out of their way.
This should probably be used only as a last resort.
Other neighborhoods used very large speed bumps, maybe 6 feet wide by 6 inches tall. Those were annoying even at slow speeds.
My only concern about the other solutions besides speed bumps are that they tend to be more costly to build and maintain.
On some of our major streets, like mine for instance, there are series of twin gateposts just wider than a car or truck width which slow you down as you drive past them. That is a local solution here but there are speed bumps also. The emergency response people in Montreal are not too enamoured of the speed bumps. Some streets have many speed bumps on a block stretch.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...676/story.html
This is yet again not a new problem for the city.
I spent my formative years in the Aviation Subdivision...between Wyoming and Schafer on Tireman. If you look at a map, you'll see to major diagonal streets intersecting at Meyers/Miller and Tireman.
In the forties and fifties, they had trouble with drag racers on Littlefield. The city apparently did nothing. [[go figure) So the residents stacked up sandbags to force a chicane in the route which was eventually made into a permanent 'feature' in the road.
It worked there because there were other quick ways around the park for emergency vehicles, I'd bet. Fire Trucks never had trouble getting to Meyers, which was 'cut off' by the park closure, which probably happened at the same time those chicanes were built.
I've used them all my life to test suspension modifications and neutral handling from alignments...LOL. Always looking for my best speed through 'em...
Cheers,
John
On Paul, between Southfield and Evergreen, they just let the road do back to its natural state...LOL. That road always looked like a war zone. NO troubles with drag racers then, though.
idiots going down residential roads at 35+ mph is not just a detroit problem. suburbs are also afflicted. speed bumps? nah. start making dead end streets if you dont want people passing thru. i like the sand bag idea. that or speed-activated spike strips. after a few $600 tire replacements, i think they might get the hint.
<<At the intersection of two through streets they would construct a diagonal berm barrier effectively cutting the intersection into two disconnected L-shaped streets. After that, neither street was "through.">>
Toledo has some of those, too, in the Old West End. It wasn't just an anti-speeding device but was supposed to control crime by making it more difficult for criminals to get out of the subdivision safely. A similar plan was talked up for Chicago on a large scale but never got going. I have no idea whether it's effective.
What does some city department's complaint have to do with this?Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
Many other cities have speed bumps in streets that are indistinguishable from ours -- and others even have roundabouts in intersections and other obstacles to the full enjoyment of the street by the DPW and Fire Departments.
I do believe they complain. We should stop listening and demand some creativity from them.