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My wife and I live downtown and plan on staying in Detroit to raise a family. We are currently house hunting in IV. Living down here during my twenties has really made me appreciate it for all that it is...and isn't. I was born in Detroit and raised in Plymouth, I want my children to have some culture.
Safety is an issue, which is why we are looking in IV.
However, this article you posted has nothing to do with Detroit/Highland Park being safe.....its about some fucked up sickos who tortured an innocent child. This could have happened in any suburb....Birmingham....RO...anywhere.
I suppose IV is nice enough, but how can one have culture in IV? What can you get there that you could not from anywhere else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Planner3357
IV is in the city....it is racially diverse...and it's relatively safe. Anywhere in Detroit has more culture in it than the burbs.
As for school systems, Waldorf is a decent enough school...at least through 8th grade...but then probably private schools for HS...I went to private schools my whole life, and it's nothing about snobbery, its that my experiences and friendships I gained while attending will last a lifetime. I think public school systems in general are inferior to Private/Catholic school teachings....which is why DPS is no concern of mine regarding my children.
They won't go to DPS schools just the same as they wouldn't attend Plymouth/Canton schools.
It's nice that they've finally made it to such a high level of sophistication... now if only their kids would stop walking in the middle of the street... :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Planner3357
Is Indian Village more diverse than a comparable subub? Highly unlikely. If I take Indian Village-area census tracts, there will be few whites, and almost no Asians or Hispanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Planner3357
Is it safe relative to comparable sububs? No
Does it have "more culture" than suburbs? I don't know what this means, but if it refers to formal practice and/or appreciation of arts and culture, then definitely no.
But, of course, excepting perhaps safety, these questions have no definitive answers. There's no agreed-upon measure of diversity or culture, and we view these issues through our worldview prism.
One thing I will say, though, is that Detroit "nicer" neighborhoods have unbeatable architecture and housing stock. I love the older homes.
The reason I would walk down the middle of the street as a kid had everything to do with it being the safest place to be. You have a greater time to react to danger the farther away you are from the hiding places.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Whether you raise your children in the suburbs or the city should not matter in terms of culture. Its what you expose your children to that counts. Yes the City has many fine cultural attractions but the suburbs have Cranbrook, the Henry Ford, and lots of places too. Growing up in the City we would go to the DIA, Zoo, Henry Ford, Dossin, Aquarium, the Cider Mill, Plum Street, Boblo... it was all Detroit as far as we were concerned.
Stop putting up cultural walls that need not be there.
Thank you. And, despite it all, there are some kids who received a fine education in some of the DPS schools. Yes, most of the schools are subpar, but the ones that aren't will give all but the most elite suburban schools a run for their money. I wasn't hurt a single bit in life by my DPS education, and apparently, neither were my students. My first class 12 years ago just graduated from college this spring and judging from the updates I've received, they are doing marvelous things.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
My wife and I are raising our son in Midtown and we are grappling with all of the issues mentioned above. I think our main motivation for raising a child in the city is the hope of exposing him to a more wordly existance. Access to museums, concerts, festivals and quality architecture are within walking distance. If I had the money to move to London or Paris, I would, but in the meantime we have the poor man's version here in Detroit. Yes, safety is an issue, but Midtown and Downtown are much safer than the many of the neighborhoods around the city.
I want him to understand the benefits of living a more compact lifestyle with a smaller carbon footprint in a densely populated area. Plus, I am putting my money where my mouth is. I spend my hard-earned in and around my neighborhood and only occasionally visit the suburbs for shopping. I bike to work and can spend my lunch hours with my family at the park.
So long story short, there are issues to deal with living with a family in the city, but for me, it's more about a lifestyle choice that i enjoy.
Living the hipster doofus dream is one thing but when you CHOOSE to raise a child in Detroit-- all I can say is that I truly feel sorry for your childrenQuote:
Originally Posted by ScienceFair
What does that story have to do with choosing where to rear a family?
It sounds like his family tortured the poor kid for a long time. Where does Detroit or Highland Park enter the equation?
Man, I love the positive vibes! I can always count on Lincoln8740 to show some love.Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln8740
I think there are some articles on the freep.com that don't have any cynical/antagonistic comments on them yet, better hurry before someone beats you to it!
I agree with you 100%.... my reply was a smart ass answer to a dumb comment. And it's no secret why the teens walk in the street...Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
Whoops sorry forgot you live in lala land: great choice of a city to raise a child in the schools are great, the streets are safe and hopefully your son/daughter can be in charge of their own urban farm when they grow up!Quote:
Originally Posted by ScienceFair
I really value your opinions. Why? Because everything you say is the exact opposite of everything I want to stand for and the exact opposite of everything I believe is true and good in the world. If I'm doing the opposite of whatever vapid, ridiculous, shallow, right-wing garbage you're spewing, I know I am doing the right thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln8740
"There is not one place in Detroit where your kids can safely play flashlight tag outdoors. "
Wow, there is one for the ages. Is that a fact, eh? Sounds like a challenge from somebody who apparently knows absolutely nothing about Detroit who has the audacity to say that from Washington. Can you tell that from there? Who wants to get some kids together and safely play flashlight tag somewhere in the city limits? I guess if you get down to it, there is really no place on earth where one can safely play flashlight tag, since kids seem prone to self-destruction.
In all seriousness, "culture" is something almost impossible to define and almost totally subjective. However I applaud you both, ScienceFair and Planner. Good luck to you.
I've spent years in both the city and suburbs [[currently city, never to look back) and I can say while many of the suburbs are nice places, they've done a big disservice to some of the kids who grew up there. It's hard for many of them to understand a world outside their cul-de-sac, and it makes for some very frustrated and maladjusted individuals. In a very different way, so does growing up in the ghetto.
Of course, none of these good people are advocating subjecting their children to the ghetto. They've indicated they want to live in the nicest areas of Detroit and provided plenty of good reasons. It's a double standard for you people who scream about living in the suburbs as a personal choice to then attack these people for perfectly rational personal life choices. Hell, I'd sure rather raise my kids in IV than in someplace like Novi, and I have every right to feel that way, and plenty of good reasons too.
Frankly, the best people I know were raised in Detroit way after the glory days - i.e. the 1970s, 1980s to present day. Just well-rounded people.
This is the only information I've been able to find on child abuse stats in Michigan. Kids in foster care aren't all abuse victims, but I'd guess most are.
http://www.childhelp.org/pages/programs-michigan
"...Approximately 17,800 children were part of Michigan's foster care system in 2008..."
I don't know how Michigan compares to other states.
https://www.msu.edu/user/bob/cost.html
"...The National Committee for the Prevention of Child Abuse [[NCPCA) conducts an annual survey to determine the number of child fatalities due to child abuse. They report that, nationally, 1,211 deaths were directly attributable to child abuse during 1990 [[Daro & McCurdy, 1991). Michigan has not responded to the NCPCA survey with fatality information since 1986. However, in 1985 and 1986 Michigan averaged 1.32 percent of the national total. Using this figure, it is estimated that 16 children died in Michigan in 1990 due to child maltreatment. Following the same logic used to calculate the cost of infant mortality, these 16 deaths cost the state of Michigan $430,992 in lost tax revenue...."
I wonder if this has changed.
I'm not at all sure what the tragic story in the original post has to do with raising kids in Detroit or Highland Park. It sounds like one sick individual doing something awful. Whatever you think of parents in the city, I don't think outright torture of children by their parents is any more common here than anywhere else.
I grew up on the east side [[in Indian Village) went to public schools, and have survived to a productive adulthood - as has my sister, my cousins, and many of my friends. My parents, who still live in the IV area [[as do I) are far from "doofuses," and I can't think of a single one of our neighbors who fits that description, so I really think you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Raising children in the city no doubt has some special challenges, but lots of people seem to manage it [[including my sister before her job moved her south). Although it seems to have been a somewhat different experience than that of friends of mine who grew up in the suburbs, my life has certainly been richer for having been raised in an urban environment here in the City of Detroit.
Yes, but this walking in the streets is happening in the suburbs too now. Fortunately, accelerating and laying on the horn tends to encourage them to MOVE THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Sidewalks exist! Use them!
Since we are on a forum, people take very stark positions. But why can't both sides go on as they want, without negative comments? If someone grew up in Detroit and left because of crime or bad services, I could not blame them for wanting their kids to grow up in a better environment. Likewise, some will want to expose their children to the city, because for those people, the benefits outweigh the real negatives. To each his own, I say.
I grew up in the Lafayette Park area and have lived in Woodbridge for the last 29 years. Our kids are 24 and 28 now. They were born a raised in Woodbridge and they generally view this as a very positive experience. There were many families here and both the kids and parents have forged lifelong friendships because of the sense of community that exists here. Yes, we [[parents and kids) played capture the flag, pickup soccer games participated in back yard BBq's , music parties and plenty of other things that make for a high quality of life. We established a babysitting co-op that served a much larger purpose of building friendships and community among the kids and adults.
Yes, the kids need some supervision and street sense but this is not a bad skill for life. I have seen many cases of unsupervised kids getting into trouble when the parents felt that all they had to do was move to a "safe" place and then not pay attention to their kids. In part because we had to be a bit more attentive, I think we also experienced more the joys of parenthood than we might have otherwise. This enhanced or relationships with both our own and other neighborhood kids.
I know some neighbors are reviving the co-op in Woodbridge as there seems to be quite a baby boom here these days. Don't drink the water ; ). I can certainly recommend Woodbridge as a place that was and appears to be a very kid friendly place in the near future.
I am not here to argue the benefits of city vs suburban life but rather to share our experiences and state that raising kids in the city can be done and done well. Yes there is a cost in terms of schooling. There are however benefits in terms of raising a child in an environment where folks know their neighbors and truly value community. This can exist in many locations however we have found this in Woodbridge over the las 29 years.
Some will make this choice and others will not based on their particular circumstances and what they value most. It take all kinds to make the world go 'round. ...just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Keith
Sidewalks start and stop haphazardly in the burbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ferntruth
Also people in the burbs like to encourage illegal behavior by beeping at cyclists and shouting "sidewalk!"
I feel like the drive-around-it calmness of the city is more civilized than the egocentric car-entitled attitude of the red-faced, muffin-topped suburbanite. The vast majority of people in the Metro area [[and the city) die of heart attacks and cancer. Chill out, get on a bike, and let's work at cleaning this place up.
Raising kids in the city is a challenge but it can be done with great outcomes. It helps if there is a strong family structure, a decent area that you're living in and attending one of the better schools in the city. But it can be done regardless. Growing up in the city gives you a great awareness of your surroundings which is an attribute that can help you thru out life regardless of where in the country and what city you end up living in. Living in the city also helps to hone the BS detector that we all have. Because you will hear it all.
Check out http://www.sweetjuniper.com
Stromberg2
DOGS!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
That's one reason to walk in the street.