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http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...’-as-big-as-GM
JoAnn Watson thinks Detroit should get a huge bailout because primarily because of our past glories based on her quotes in the article. Although I think more economic reasons need to be argued to the Feds for more cash. However, sometimes I think we're not getting any Federal cash because Detroit & Michigan is viewed as irrelevant by the rest of the country.
Any other thoughts???:confused:
The fundamental difference I see between Detroit getting help and, say, Pres. Ford helping NYC is Detroit's current lack of revenue. Yes, there's potential for more if the city starts to rebound but you can't take that to the bank like you can a balanced budget and sound biz plan.
And none of the rest of the country gives a shit about Detroit other than to rubberneck
IMHO she was showboating for the cameras and the mayor. Remember...she was the one who only paid $68 in taxes on her home in 2009. She couldn't remember if a tornado hit her house in 1993 or 2002. She thought the drop in her taxes was because of "heavy damage" to the home but she never filed an insurance claim to fix it.
Just another person working in Detroit's administration who doesn't belong there and probably doesn't care about the taxpayers in the least.
Outside of Watson being Watson, I found the Detroit News picking this up as a headline predictable. They take the council's most opinionated and vocal member and feed to their base readers exactly what they want them to see and make generalizations of and on. JoAnn is one of nine voices on the council, and not even one often in the majority. The headline could have read "Detroit [[black people) wants bailout" for all the News is concerned, but they are a bit more insidious than that.
Watson being Watson? Base readers? Detroit, ie, black people? Sounds like you are the one that is generalizing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthEnder
Detroit should be embarrassed for her suggesting such a thing, again. This isn't the first time she has clamored for a Federal handout for Detroit, and the News is exposing her idiocy and lack of leadership, as they rightly should.
Most folks outside Detroit don't see the bailout as an 'investment", just more money poured down a rathole.
What are the consequences to the United States if Detroit slides into total ruin?
Any other thoughts?
Stop the corrupt politicians from stealing it and there'll be plenty to go around.
As much as I hate agreeing with, just about everything, Detroit City Council says,
I choose to agree with Ms.Watson, to the idea that we DO need a 'Bailout'.
We Do deserve it, considering our past and the contributions this City has
offered. We DO need SOMETHING to survive. None of the plans I've seen or heard put forth even begin to advance Detroit...a City/Region still vital to the American
economy, and the Great Lakes region in general. We are a Major Border City,
sharing a major river connecting a vital world waterway shipping lane w/Canada.
We DID create the Middle Class. We WERE a MAJOR part of supplying the
War Effort with the essential parts and vehicles needed to keep this country FREE, when fighting a war REALLY WAS about freedom, not just about
keeping Oil Prices down.
Come on, after all the Auto Bailouts, and Wall street Bailouts, and Banking Bailouts....and the way the American people were subsequently screwed, after
all the promises made, and no real efforts made to monitor the expenditures...
The Auto Companies used their money to basically re-tool, and then ran as fast as they could to foreign shores, rebuilding, not in America, not for American jobs, for
the American economy...but for their profit only, while simultaneously laying off
workers, and shutting down factories. They got THEIR BAILOUTS.
The Banks, and Finance Co.'s continue to forclose. They got THEIR BAILOUTS.
Wall Street continues to control our Political/Economic decisions. They had help.
The Insurance Companies are ever successful and profiting...and lobbying.
Detroit is a MAJOR cog in the wheel. Don't kid yourself, and allow the rest of
the Nation to stipulate what we need or don't need. We're here, LIVING what we need. We see and feel the real pains of economic failure. We NEED a BAILOUT!!!
One Billion Dollars. This country can afford it. They are affording much more than that, every single day of the week, just in penalties on debt owed alone.
Of course the money can only be doled-out in increments, and not even touched by any of the 'powers' in charge at this time. There would HAVE to be a seperate
entity involved in the management of these funds.
Let's lobby our cause, and get that bailout.
My humble opinion of course.
This will be a interesting topic to follow, at least for me. Several months back, there was the discussion about DTE and some peoples lack of being able to pay it and having their services shut off in the winter. The majority of the people chiming in where of the opinion that they did not want their bills raised to cover these people. There was also talk about how heat was not a right but a service that if one could not afford it then they had to do without.
That being said how will these same people feel about their tax money going to the city of Detroit for a bail-out [[if they live outside the city). Wouldn't this fit into the same shell of "City services are not a right but something one pays for with taxes"? and if the city can not afford it, then they do without.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermod
Now these idiots have gone from asking the suburbs for a handout to asking the federal government, what is next the U.N.?
Thank god for the EFM Bill. Obviously City Leadership doesn't get it and never will. I can't wait to see the look on her face when she is stripped of all of her power. Now if we could just take away her paycheck as well things would be great.
Them's fighting words lincoln...it's not THIS Mayor not getting it, it's the previous administrations [[i.e. from Young to thug KK) who didn't get it...they only "TOOK" it from the taxpayers. Watson is a hanger on and I'm sure still has the mindset of the previous administration. Puke is totally clueless and sits there at the head of the table, staring down the Mayor, acting so supreme until I literally felt ill. If an EFM comes in and starts wiping the slate clean, the City of Detroit may as well fold up it's streets and turn off the lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln8740
If a "bail out" would just make everything right and things would go on fine from there, it might make sense.
Regardless of how you feel about the banks, they are repaying their bailout money [[with interest).
Giving the government of the city of Detroit money is just like giving a panhandler money, they will just use it to feed their habit [[corruption).
Any money given to Detroit must come with a very stringent formula that city employment numbers must be reduced to a formula of 1950 city employees times 710,000 divided by 1,810,000 and total payroll must be reduced to 1950 total payroll dollars [[adjusted to inflation) times 710,000 divided by 1,810,000. In other words, the city payroll has to be reduced to 40% of the 1950 payroll both in numbers of employees and in inflation-adjusted dollars of total payroll. Begin the process with the clowncil staffers.
Bing should be given the power of EFM, and then strip the counsel of its power as well as their paychecks. Then he can get down to business with his reforms of the city without any distractions or roadblocks from the clowns on CC.
Watson is, and has been a crazy and paranoid voice in Detroit for far too long. People like her hold the city back and impede progress.
Watson is always a little kooky, but the war effort reference was just bizarre.
Wouldn't the fact that the feds invested wartime billions in Detroit [[far more than any other city) speak to Detroit being very fortunate, rather than being owed something?
The auto companies were flat on their backs, and unemployment was insanely high. Detroit had disasterous unemployment relative to other cities.
Once the war effort began, Uncle Sam's manufacturing investments turned Detroit into the richest city in the country, with essentially full employment.
You are right. Even post war, the money that flowed into Detroit and made the auto workers the "princes" of blue collar labor came from all of the working people in the rest of the country shelling out their hard-earned bucks to pay for "Detroit tin". UAW wages and benefits were roughly double the average manufacturing wages and bennies for the rest of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Detroit didn't "manufacture" money, they pulled money from the rest of the economy to support their life style.
Do you ever wonder why it was so hard to get the rest of the country motivated to "Buy American" when it came to cars? They always felt raped by Detroit.
Plenty of schadenfreude in the uS now over the condition of Detroit and SE Michigan.
/
Do I understand Mother Watson's logic to be, "Detroiters saved the free world in WWII and therefore we deserve a bailout."? Aren't these the same folk she vilifies at every turn for leaving the city? Aren't these the same folk who left the city for safer streets, better schools and lower taxes?
Every Uhaul out of the city is a vote telling Mother Watson that she is delusional.
If the City would seriously re-invent itself with a cogent plan that threw away every vestige of its collective entitled mindset, if the City mercilessly slashed redtape to allow small business to grow, if the City enforced blight laws on itself and on powerful landowners, if the City had an open palm instead of a defiant fist ... all on top of a true understanding that change does not mean doing the same thing again and again ... then maybe a loan could help.
but loans need collateral, past glories are not collateral; if it was we would be sending tribute to Spain.
Gimmie that gubament cheeze.....should be the motto of a lot of people in this region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guito13
gubament cheeze is WELFARE CHEESE! as in money and not what's in brown box filled with hard block of cheedar. The Republicans are going to say HELL NO and Democrats are going to say we're broke no thanks to the Republicans. So deal with it and let your state governor finish the job fixing your poor city.
She has been screaming about this for years.
Here's the thing: I'm in favor. I think if the fat cats get a bailout, a tired old American city like Detroit should too. However, where is the political support for this, besides JoAnn Watson? It is not politically feesible and thus cannot happen.
Even if there was even marginal support for this outside of Detroit, plenty of cities could then make the same case that they needed bailouts too. Again, I'm all for helping out cities, over, say, buying bombs, but I realize the United States cannot throw billion dollars at countless cities.
Does JoAnn Watson think that if she screams about it enough, it will happen? Probably not. Does she believe it could ever possibly happen? I'd doubt that. JoAnn Watson is pandering to her base.
As MY at-large councilwoman [[and dear God is she ever large), I wish she would devote more energies to solvable problems - hey JoAnn, could you maybe work on getting the fucking streetlights on down Outer Drive instead of a Marshall Plan?!
To say that Detroit deserves a bailout because of contributions made in WW2 is idiotic. Detroit is a place where it happened, but the people who made those contributions are now mostly either dead or moved out of the area. The city is in such a bad shape right now not because there was some concerted effort to destroy the city or because of the economic crisis, but because of bad management and too many people who live here sitting by and letting the place go to hell. Yes a huge number of people have moved away but that does not mean the city should become a burned out crime infested war zone. It becomes these things because far too many of its citizens chose to do nothing because of the mindset that it is none of their business so why bother.
Joanne Watson has been more of a detriment to the city than a benefit. She is a loud mouth racist who is a prime example of what is wrong with the city council. She like so many before her are unwilling to forget the past to such a degree that they are unable to move forward. It has reached a point where any non-black person is considered the "other" and therefor should not be trusted at all, and unfortunately also made to feel unwelcome. The city is a majority black city and I know there will be some who are angered by this statement but having a city that is a majority anything is a bad thing. Without any kind of diversity in the community, there will be a limited amount of different ways to look at things and so opinions on things tend to become entrenched and magnified to an extreme. I by no means want to cover up or forget the past racial injustice that occured here and all over the country, but I also do not think that it should cause us to be mired down and unable to move forward like Detroit has come to be.
As for Mrs. Watson I first suggest that she realize that she works in a professional environment and should dress accordingly. I don't mean to say that her clothes are bad but I don't think that any major corporation would allow such attire either.
She and the rest of the council need to wake up and realize what state the city is in and that the institution that the council was is no longer relevant in the way they run it now. Council members do not need a large staff, they should have an executive assistant and maybe a few staffers, not a whole entourage that follows them around all the time. They need to slash their budget and probably should become a part time institution given the population size of the city. Lastly I think they also should set an example for the people of the city and lose some weight. I know that is a personal attack but I have watched the council for over 20 years and it seems to me that a person may be skinny when they join it but they just become bloated as time goes on. Our city has a major obesity issue that its residents suffer from and the council is a prime example of this. Maybe instead of begging for handouts they should get out and lead a fitness campaign and make this city healthy physically, and then perhaps it will be more viable financially as well.
To make an issue of something that has absolutely no chance of happening is idiotic if she is doing it for any reason other than building something to campaign on [[considering that if you want to say you did something, but did nothing, you need to be able to point & say "I tried!")
Why not point to how practically every policy the government has enacted since WWII has had either intended or unintended negative impact upon most major cities and were magnified in Detroit. Specify what current policies could be changed to help turn things around.
One lump sum won't help the city long-term any more than a cup of water helps someone suffering from dehydration.
Bail out for what? As a native born Detroit, Denby High grad, and retired Detroit firefighter, my take is that the city is way overdue the concept of "economic self-reliance" that was once so heralded by the enthocentrist leaders of Detroit in recent decades. Even when I would hear the Nation of Islam in Detroit speak of "economic self-empowerment," I would think 'Good...let's do it, Detroiters.'
One thing city government could do in Detroit for starters is do downsize. What are there now, nine common council members. Delete two seats and go to a seven seat council, one for every 700,000 residents, approximately the ratio of the US House.
In regard to a bailout for Detroit, where would the money come from, China? India? Brazil?
As I see it from my home in the suburbs, having a community discussion is a problem in Detroit. A lot of Detroiters are not on the internet so they can't discuss issues at sites like Detroityes. Individuals can present their concerns to the Council, but that doesn't mean anything will happen. Are there any functioning neighborhood councils ? Do the churches hold discussions on city issues? So the discussions seem to be one-sided and must sound extreme to attract the attention of TV stations -- because who really reads the newspapers any more? So council members act like demagogues, some people get riled up, and nothing is discussed in a rational manner. Detroiters come off looking like a bunch of childish hysterics, and there is little public critique of Council members' behavior except for what appears in the media.