Detroit didn't count more than 100 homicides

http://www.freep.com/graphics/mastlogo.gif

June 4, 2009

Worthy: Detroit homicide drop doesn't add up

More than 100 left off books, she says

BY SUZETTE HACKNEY
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER Contrary to FBI statistics, more than 100 Detroit homicides were left off the books last year, Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said Wednesday.
Worthy said the Detroit Police Department underreported that 306 people were killed in 2008. She said the homicide number is actually 423, though she would not disclose how she arrived at that figure.
"I have no interest in trying to make the city look bad," Worthy said Wednesday. "We have resource problems, and in order to adequately allocate our resources, I need to have an accurate depiction of the crime occurring in the city."
Worthy said Detroit Police Chief James Barren, appointed last October, cannot be held responsible for previous administrations' crime-reporting missteps, and said he has been receptive to improving how the department functions.
"I really respect how he is running the department," she said.
The FBI reported this week that murders last year dropped 22% in Detroit, from 392 in 2007 to 306.
Rod Liggons, Detroit police spokesman, said Barren acknowledged at a January town hall meeting that the homicide numbers reported to the FBI last year were erroneous, mostly because of misclassifications. For example, if a person is shot and dies three days later, that shooting may not be upgraded from assault with a weapon to a homicide. Barren said the number of homicides was likely 339.
"This is a chief who has an agenda to make the city safer," Liggons said of Barren. "If we have to take our lumps -- or take our praise -- we are not going to falsify our numbers because we don't gain anything from it."
Worthy said Detroit and other cities naturally are tempted to cook crime figures, especially because the numbers are self-reported. No city wants to be known as a murder capital or ranked in the top 10 for violent crimes, she said.
"But the only way we can solve our crime problem is to face our numbers, face reality and deal with it honestly," she said.

When I read the article that murders had decreased in Detroit I didn't believe that. Worthy only verified my common sense analysis.

She thinks like I do at work. I kept telling those guys that if they hide their problems, they'll never get the resources to fix them. They started buying into it alot more once my numbers started getting them resources. It also helps to use the term opportunity for improvement, especially when talking to their bosses. Investors like to know they're going to get a good bang for their buck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mjs

She thinks like I do at work. I kept telling those guys that if they hide their problems, they'll never get the resources to fix them. They started buying into it alot more once my numbers started getting them resources. It also helps to use the term opportunity for improvement, especially when talking to their bosses. Investors like to know they're going to get a good bang for their buck.

---

Well said.

I recently read that New Orleans is again the current murder capital of the U.S.

No, this put us back to number one over Baltimore.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...,2515982.story

it's systemic:

First-degree murder charges against two young women accused of killing Maria Nicole Carissimi, 20, of St. Clair Shores, were reduced after 36th District Judge Willie Lipscomb likened the incident to juvenile behavior.

"It takes less to kill people than most of us really think," Lipscomb said, after referring to his own youthful days when kids ended up with their faces in the dirt. Carissimi was found [dead on Belle Isle] with mud inside her mouth.

Eh, 300...400...500... What's the difference? Hell, we kill so many people, we lost count. Have a great day!

We're number 1!!

Bizarre how our police chief can bury numbers and keep crucial information from our own police. More of trying to puff up the "broke" former mayor.

The 423 sounds too high [[and what is telling is that Worthy won't reveal how she came up with the number), and the 306 was an obvious error. The 339 is most likely the correct number, and is very close to the 332 reported at the end of December, last year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MIRepublic

The 423 sounds too high [[and what is telling is that Worthy won't reveal how she came up with the number), and the 306 was an obvious error. The 339 is most likely the correct number, and is very close to the 332 reported at the end of December, last year.

---

Unless you count the bodies as they arrive at the morgue, how can you speculate on this?

We thought Detroit sounded like "The Wire" before.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leland_palmer

We thought Detroit sounded like "The Wire" before.....

---

We need Bunny Coleman. "Fuck em if they can't take a joke". The police need to provide real hard honest numbers. It's not as if anyone was looking at 306 as an acceptable number that meant, all is well, anyway.

it's systemic:

First-degree murder charges against two young women accused of killing Maria Nicole Carissimi, 20, of St. Clair Shores, were reduced after 36th District Judge Willie Lipscomb likened the incident to juvenile behavior.

"It takes less to kill people than most of us really think," Lipscomb said, after referring to his own youthful days when kids ended up with their faces in the dirt. Carissimi was found [dead on Belle Isle] with mud inside her mouth.

What's the source of that Lipscomb remark? I vaguely remember the case but don't know details. At first glance, it seems outrageous that the charges were reduced. Anybody have an update?

this event is not considered murder in detroit - a city more beset by apathy over its indecency, than indecency itself:

http://www.candgnews.com/Homepage-Ar...SC-MURDER2.asp

the lipscomb quotes have faded from the search engines, and "life" in detroit rolls on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MIRepublic

The 423 sounds too high [[and what is telling is that Worthy won't reveal how she came up with the number), and the 306 was an obvious error. The 339 is most likely the correct number, and is very close to the 332 reported at the end of December, last year.

---

Thank you. More proof positive of my belief that the number one problem in detroit is the systemic and pervasive culture of denial. Focus on the number but not what is being counted. "429 sounds too high"..."329 is most likely the correct number". Why don't we split the difference, how does 381 sound...can I get a 381, 381 going once...going twice...

Can we round it off to 380? Better yet, how about 365? That way we would have averaged one a day. Of course, 360 is better for calculations, as it is divisible by 2, 3, 4, etc. Although, 400 would also be nice as it is a solid number.

Heck, any number will do. Let's just put all the numbers in a hat and pick one. After all, we're only talking about human lives.

New Orleans is probably number one. Detroit and Baltimore are trying to toss back and forth the title of "Murder Capital of cities with population over 500,000". New Orleans does not have more than 500,000 residents.

That said, contrary to the mindless babble in this thread, if Detroit's homicide rate is 37.4 per 100,000 residents, then that would make this year one of the lowest homicide rates the city has seen in decades [[maybe since the 1960s). As recently as 2007, the homicide rate was 45.7 per 100,000 residents. So a 2008 homicide rate of 37.4 per 100,000 residents would represent nearly a 20% decline of homicides in just one year. FWIW, Detroit appears to be heading in the right direction since its homicide rate is once again being compared to larger cities, instead of smaller cities like Gary, IN, or Camden, NJ [[whose level of "dangerousness" is skewed because of their smaller sizes).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iheartthed

contrary to the mindless babble in this thread

---

mindless babble, smug superiority - hey, this thread has it all, iheart!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thecarl

mindless babble, smug superiority - hey, this thread has it all, iheart!

---

Smug superiority? Dammit. I meant to sound condescending...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iheartthed

That said, contrary to the mindless babble in this thread, if Detroit's homicide rate is 37.4 per 100,000 residents, then that would make this year one of the lowest homicide rates the city has seen in decades [[maybe since the 1960s). As recently as 2007, the homicide rate was 45.7 per 100,000 residents. So a 2008 homicide rate of 37.4 per 100,000 residents would represent nearly a 20% decline of homicides in just one year.

---

The "37.4 per 100,000 residents" statistic was calculated using an incorrect # of homicides, according to Worthy. So if she is correct, the true per capita murder rate in Detroit is higher than 37.4 per 100,000.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WolverinesA2

The "37.4 per 100,000 residents" statistic was calculated using an incorrect # of homicides, according to Worthy. So if she is correct, the true per capita murder rate in Detroit is higher than 37.4 per 100,000.

---

That's assuming that Worthy's number is accurate, but the article alludes that it is not [[and she has provided no evidence to back her claim). The DPD admitted that the original count that was submitted to the FBI was incorrect, and they revised it to 339 homicides, which is what the 37.4 per 100,000 rate was calculated using.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Smug superiority? Dammit. I meant to sound condescending...

---

iheart, thanks for the chuckle!

DetroitDad thinks the 306 is too high and that wayyyyyy more people are being murdered in the burbs.