Harry is worried business being hindered by new arena

I'm sorry, but I'm not getting this. A popular, well established sports bar has a new arena with two professional sports teams move in next door and the owner is worried about losing business? I know he is talking about his parking lot, but you don't have to look very far to a place like Cheli's, which has it's parking lot completely cutoff during games, but still seems to be doing just fine. If I could make one suggestion, it might be to make that handsome blank wall along Henry just a little more welcome to those that may be walking to or from the arena. Plus, we all know there will be plenty of good surface parking for everyone, right?
https://detroit.eater.com/2017/6/19/...a-traffic-planAttachment 33628

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Originally Posted by CrashDummy

I'm sorry, but I'm not getting this. A popular, well established sports bar has a new arena with two professional sports teams move in next door and the owner is worried about losing business? I know he is talking about his parking lot, but you don't have to look very far to a place like Cheli's, which has it's parking lot completely cutoff during games, but still seems to be doing just fine. If I could make one suggestion, it might be to make that handsome blank wall along Henry just a little more welcome to those that may be walking to or from the arena. Plus, we all know there will be plenty of good surface parking for everyone, right?
https://detroit.eater.com/2017/6/19/...a-traffic-planAttachment 33628

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Too late. You got into it. He wanted publicity. You helped give it to him. He wins.

How long has this place been there? I recall going in a few years back on opening day and thinking he knew exactly what he was doing by owning that place in that location. Before there was any for sure news about the arena. I was under the assumption the place just opened at that time. So who is he trying to kid if he's whining about being right in the middle of all the new activity?

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Originally Posted by One Shot

How long has this place been there?

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As far as I can remember, it was there when I started working at nearby 640 Temple in 1990.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't Chellis closed on nights where there are no events going on? I remember walking past it on a Friday night no less, and was surprised to see it closed. Obviously there was no Tiger game that day.

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Originally Posted by Atticus

Correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't Chellis closed on nights where there are no events going on?

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Yes, many arena-focused restaurants/bars are closed on days where there aren't events. This is yet another illustration of how arenas kill urbanity. They turn streetscapes into theme park-like deadzones.

If the Fox area were a "normal" urban neighborhood anywhere in the world, the restaurant's fortunes would be dependent on regular daily traffic, including walk-ins, rather than whether or not Sesame Street on Ice is playing next-door.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Yes, many arena-focused restaurants/bars are closed on days where there aren't events. This is yet another illustration of how arenas kill urbanity. They turn streetscapes into theme park-like deadzones.

If the Fox area were a "normal" urban neighborhood anywhere in the world, the restaurant's fortunes would be dependent on regular daily traffic, including walk-ins, rather than whether or not Sesame Street on Ice is playing next-door.

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Once again we need to look at the past and the future.

In the past sports facilities where designed for people to go, watch and leave. They were not designed into the fabric of the neighborhood. The Joe is an example. It added nothing.

What is happening with the LCA project is that it alone has what over 500 housing units directly related to it. Across Woodward in Brush Park another 400 are going up.

They are building a school building [[Ilitch School of Business building), then a hotel at Woodward/Henry will be built. LC hdqrts building is a few blocks away.

The whole idea is 'neighborhood building' not simply building a sports arena.

I understand the point that the owner is making. If traffic is heavy, how will that impact his own lot?

I'd like to think he could turn that into a great patio and expand though, but his point is valid.

".....Under the current plan, traffic would flow down the streets surrounding Harry’s, effectively blocking off the bar’s driveways. “There's going to be a choke point right around us and it's going to hinder our business,” Kefalonitis says. Likewise, plans for a pedestrian walkway next to Harry’s call for it to end before his bar meaning he could not offer patio seating...."

Sounds like the efforts he's trying to make are being hindered to some degree.

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Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

".....Under the current plan, traffic would flow down the streets surrounding Harry’s, effectively blocking off the bar’s driveways. “There's going to be a choke point right around us and it's going to hinder our business,” Kefalonitis says. Likewise, plans for a pedestrian walkway next to Harry’s call for it to end before his bar meaning he could not offer patio seating...."

Sounds like the efforts he's trying to make are being hindered to some degree.

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If the Ilitch Klan effectively chokes off Harry, then the Romans will be buying pizza-pizza and beer @ the new coliseum. All hail Caesar!

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Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

".....Under the current plan, traffic would flow down the streets surrounding Harry’s, effectively blocking off the bar’s driveways. “There's going to be a choke point right around us and it's going to hinder our business,” Kefalonitis says. Likewise, plans for a pedestrian walkway next to Harry’s call for it to end before his bar meaning he could not offer patio seating...."

Sounds like the efforts he's trying to make are being hindered to some degree.

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Until I get near LCA [[soon) I can't understand the traffic patterns and how they effect things.

That said, won't his establishment gain a LOT of customers who are coming to/exiting LCA on foot????

Isn't one parking garage adjacent to his establishment? [[yes). Park vehicle and grab a beer?

The foot traffic around his establishment will increase many, many fold on event days.

For those who are 'free market' types. LCA patrons can opt to go to Hockeytown or Harry's for a beer before the game. Patrons' choice.

In many respects, Harry's is closer to the new parking garages than Hockeytown which is on the 'other side' of the freeway.

I understand the design, and it appears to be modeled after the Bell Center in Montreal. I hope it does drive foot traffic to the area, and Harry's business won't be affected by the bars and restaurants that will open up at the site.

What has me worried is that Columbus, OH did the same thing with the Nationwide Arena area, and my experience is that it's not bringing traffic into the immediate area. They did a nice job - there's a beautiful park, nice wide pedestrian malls, etc... We were there a couple of years ago and on a Saturday afternoon with no hockey game going on, the area was dead. Didn't seem to pick up much later, either. A few blocks north on High Street, there is a older neighborhood with more established restaurants that was packed with people.

As an aside, they did something really cool on High Street, which is basically the Woodward of Columbus. They made a huge bridge over the I-670 freeway, and built stores on top of the freeway, so the road has an uninterrupted streetscape going over the freeway.

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Originally Posted by JBMcB

I understand the design, and it appears to be modeled after the Bell Center in Montreal. I hope it does drive foot traffic to the area, and Harry's business won't be affected by the bars and restaurants that will open up at the site.

What has me worried is that Columbus, OH did the same thing with the Nationwide Arena area, and my experience is that it's not bringing traffic into the immediate area. They did a nice job - there's a beautiful park, nice wide pedestrian malls, etc... We were there a couple of years ago and on a Saturday afternoon with no hockey game going on, the area was dead. Didn't seem to pick up much later, either. A few blocks north on High Street, there is a older neighborhood with more established restaurants that was packed with people.

As an aside, they did something really cool on High Street, which is basically the Woodward of Columbus. They made a huge bridge over the I-670 freeway, and built stores on top of the freeway, so the road has an uninterrupted streetscape going over the freeway.

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Centrally-planned, approved by consultant designs usually fail when it comes to neighborhood viability. Anarchy is best. I'll pull out a libertarian creed from my friend John..... "get the hell out of my way". When the city gets involved [[with things like re-routing streets), the system will usually be gamed by those with civic power, in this case Ilitch.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Too late. You got into it. He wanted publicity. You helped give it to him. He wins.

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Thanks, Mouch, you're correct. I get it just fine now. He seems to be throwing out vague statements in order to gain public sympathy by allowing them to draw their own conclusions in his favor.

I understand the point that the owner is making. If traffic is heavy, how will that impact his own lot?
It won't. During events, do we actually think he will let bar customers come and park for free in his lot? Hell no. He will either charge $30 like everybody else, or make it into a patio like Cheli's in order to get more people into the door. He wants us to try any make some connection between how it is on non game days if he isn't able to use his lot to event days with lot of vehicle and foot traffic and say that he will somehow lose business. There just isn't a comparison.

".....Under the current plan, traffic would flow down the streets surrounding Harry’s, effectively blocking off the bar’s driveways. “There's going to be a choke point right around us and it's going to hinder our business,” Kefalonitis says. Likewise, plans for a pedestrian walkway next to Harry’s call for it to end before his bar meaning he could not offer patio seating...."
Sounds like the efforts he's trying to make are being hindered to some degree.
I don't see anywhere that he's actually made any efforts. I would not draw that conclusion.

Also, during the interview, he is pointing out how business has been slower during construction, as if he wants us to believe that this will somehow have any bearing on how it will be when the arena actually opens.

There is a reason he has not gotten anywhere with the attorneys. It's because he is the type that attorneys hate to work for. He needs to go the public opinion route, because that's the easier way. He'll have many allies, even if it is only to go against Olympia.

^^That's why I said "sounds like." I've been to this bar a few times over the last decade. There's been improvements over the years, mostly after the area was bought up and left to rot. So I don't doubt that more plans are in the works, but if the people who aren't stadium goers can't get into the parking lot, that's a problem. No one can really say how this will pan out until the events start and we can actually see how the traffic moves.

I look at his comments as more of a pre-emptive strike than anything else.