Should detroit consolidate with 200 square miles with other wayne county cities?

OK..I CONCEDE, THE MT. CLEMENS PROPOSAL IS DEFEATED! BUT ONE LAST PROPOSALTHEN: what about Detroit uniting with 200 square miles with other Wayne County cities...NOT ALL OF WAYNE COUNTY, but 200 square miles of it: basically Livonia, Dearborn, Redford, Westland, and Down River adding 699,000 people. This would make Detroit the 5th largest city and increase the tax base. Forget the issue of the mechanism to do it...[[referring to MI legislation to annexation of cities). I am curious as to would this be a good thing for Detroit in terms of stature, tax base, diversification of the population, and a new way people view the city...Also, would people in these communities as well as Detroiters be opposed to it??? The city would be 340 square miles and 1.6 million. Out of the ten largest cities in the US, it would be 6th in population. It would be 8th out of 10 in terms of size...Chicago and Philadelphia would be the two smaller cities; whjile LA, New York, Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, San Diego, and Pheonix would all still be larger than this New Detroit of 340 square miles.

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Originally Posted by Newdetroit

would people in these communities as well as Detroiters be opposed to it?

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How long have you lived around here?

Before we do all of these wild things you're proposing, most of which are impossible under current political, social, and economic conditions, not to mention Michigan law, it might be good to concentrate on what we really need around here. And where you're sort of on the right track is that one of the main things we need around here is much more meaningful regional inter-governmental cooperation in the provision of infrastructure and services. Almost all other large metropolitan areas in the U.S. have this kind of thing, and sometimes have several different specialized authorities that raise revenue and operate across local borders. Here in this area, mostly for historical/racial reasons, and the distrust and resentments that go along with it, we have almost none of this sort of thing.

detroit's only hope for a meaningful recovery in the next 50 years would be to annex all of wayne county, then succeed from the united states and declare itself an independent nation. unlike when the southern states succeeded, the rest of the country will not care when detroit leaves, and will probably be happy to no longer bear its burden. then, as a 3rd world country, the detroit/wayne county-nation could get all sorts of grants, low interest loans from the world bank, or just get Bono to lobby for forgiveness of the debt, which would allow for a total re-build and do-over. since there's little of value in the county, it could declare itself a tax-free zone for a decade or 2, and live off the international monies until enough businesses re-locate to take advantage of the business climate. after a couple of generations of hard work, hopefully all the apathy and uneducatedness can be purged in time to take advantage of the rebuilt city-state.

We already fuct ourselves by selling water to neighboring muncipalities without annexing them. So unless your working on a time machine I would let this idea die. Detroit has nothing but it's problems to bring to the table and people would shit bricks then throw'em at you just for mentioning this kind of idea.

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Originally Posted by Zimm

detroit's only hope for a meaningful recovery in the next 50 years would be to annex all of wayne county, then succeed from the united states and declare itself an independent nation. unlike when the southern states succeeded, the rest of the country will not care when detroit leaves, and will probably be happy to no longer bear its burden. then, as a 3rd world country, the detroit/wayne county-nation could get all sorts of grants, low interest loans from the world bank, or just get Bono to lobby for forgiveness of the debt, which would allow for a total re-build and do-over. since there's little of value in the county, it could declare itself a tax-free zone for a decade or 2, and live off the international monies until enough businesses re-locate to take advantage of the business climate. after a couple of generations of hard work, hopefully all the apathy and uneducatedness can be purged in time to take advantage of the rebuilt city-state.

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You will probalby like this article:
Build a wall around Detroit
http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=9171

I thinks its a good idea & know it will happen in my lifetime. The lone hold out will be livonia. Fortunately most of the old ones against it are moving to warmer states & dying out since its a old person surburb. Also not to mention most of western wayne suburbs are becoming more diverse and younger.

Overall it's a good plan but, to really move this region forward Oakland County[[8 mile divide) needs to be annexed into Detroit. That's what lansing should've been working on once it was clear that ex Mayor Kilpatrick was stepping down.The whole SE michigan region would've been redrawn into districts and voted for a new mayor and council.

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Originally Posted by Russix

We already fuct ourselves by selling water to neighboring muncipalities without annexing them. So unless your working on a time machine I would let this idea die. Detroit has nothing but it's problems to bring to the table and people would shit bricks then throw'em at you just for mentioning this kind of idea.

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Isn't the all of a sudden regionalism cooperation from oakland & macomb
counties admittnace that they fu-k up this region & that they need detroit! Isn't regionalism in this area a slick name for regional annexation.

Also not so fast the reason it will happen eventually is because all those old bitter hatred feelings & history are tied to the baby boomer generation. The younger generation don't have all that hatred against each other. Were smarter & became more tolerant of each other, from watching your mistakes. We watched you boomers use isolation & hatred to economically kill detroit. But you guys time is passing, & were up next & we know not to make the MANY SELFISH, FOOLISH, me, me, mistakes of the boomers.

Especially during the 60's when you guys promise that you would leave a better world for the next generation.

Detroit will be reborn into a great, vibrant, better educated, city under our watch. We already know not to lie on the witness stand, and to stay away from trust funds! Also having a good moral character is crucial in life

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Originally Posted by Zimm

detroit's only hope for a meaningful recovery in the next 50 years would be to annex all of wayne county, then succeed from the united states and declare itself an independent nation. unlike when the southern states succeeded, the rest of the country will not care when detroit leaves, and will probably be happy to no longer bear its burden. then, as a 3rd world country, the detroit/wayne county-nation could get all sorts of grants, low interest loans from the world bank, or just get Bono to lobby for forgiveness of the debt, which would allow for a total re-build and do-over. since there's little of value in the county, it could declare itself a tax-free zone for a decade or 2, and live off the international monies until enough businesses re-locate to take advantage of the business climate. after a couple of generations of hard work, hopefully all the apathy and uneducatedness can be purged in time to take advantage of the rebuilt city-state.

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Wanna become part of Canada?:D We'll be happy to take you in....we take everyone in! You guys can become part of Southern Ontraio, then Wayne and Essex can become one powerhouse Province of it's own called Detrowindsawaynessex, because it sounds Native American and Canada will go all bonkers over that. With our combined manufactuing capacity and skilled labourers who are itching to get back to work, it would be a no-brainer for industry to locate here! I wonder how much of Canada's manufacturing capability we would make up........

We're both screwed right now anyways....so what more could it hurt?

And....if noone wants to play ball with us, we just fortify the river and force North America to bend to our will:rolleyes:

I'm just kidding of course, it's a horrible idea.












....meanwhile, on DetroitYES!..........

Detroit's last expansion was in 1927 when it annexed Greenfield Township and parts of Redford Township. After that, the great depression hit [[the one in the 1930s, not the current one) and the last concern anyone had was further expansion. That was followed by WW II, and again, no thought of expansion, just 'Win the War' thinking.

By the time things settled down around 1950, the surrounding burbs had all incorporated as their own cities pretty much, and the politics of self preservation has probably ended any chance of Detroit expanding beyond its present 139 point something square miles.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

I'm guessing hell no would be an appropriate response. How this would help puzzles me. For a city that can't even help themselves., how would expansion be a benefit for anyone? People leave the city to escape it, not to be stalked.

Who would be the consolidator and who would be consolidatee?

Which has more population, the city or the balance of Wayne County?

The Grosse Pointes would probably try to be taken into Macomb County.

Should you start fewer threads or at least shorten the titles?

Ideally, Hamtramck and Highland Park could be consolidated with Detroit-- 2010, and states having X number of separate governments [[county, municipal) and separate public services, overlapping bureaucracies, is a part of the 'bloat' of government.. of course, the most prideful Hamtramckers and Highland Parkers insist that separation be permanent.. If consolidation were to happen, they could give each 'district' a seat on city council, especially as Detroit is moving toward council by district anyway, also the charter commission is looking into giving council expanded powers over some city services..

This thread AGAIN? It would be nice if the mods..instead of purging posters..would purge repetitive, beat to death topics.

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Originally Posted by bailey

This thread AGAIN? It would be nice if the mods..instead of purging posters..would purge repetitive, beat to death topics.

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It would be nice for the beat to death topics to get some traction in the political arena.

In order for anything like this to happen, we would have to change the state constitution to make it easier [[or at least politically feasible) for Detroit to annex or consolidate with inner ring suburbs in OC, MC and WC.

The other thing we'd need is a serious, perhaps decade-long discussion about why it would benefit everybody. As the baby boomers die off or move up to Roscommon, this will become easier. And as more people leave Detroit and then return, they will bring with them the knowledge that's evident everywhere but here: Vibrant central cities are vital to the economic development of every region in the United States, and help drive investment in metroplexes.

Usually, when you have a good economic argument, even the old, die-hard, racist, you-will-take-home-rule-away-when-you-pry-it-from-my-cold-dead-fingers types will come around to listen after a while.

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Originally Posted by Newdetroit

OK..I CONCEDE, THE MT. CLEMENS PROPOSAL IS DEFEATED! BUT ONE LAST PROPOSALTHEN: what about Detroit uniting with 200 square miles with other Wayne County cities...NOT ALL OF WAYNE COUNTY, but 200 square miles of it: basically Livonia, Dearborn, Redford, Westland, and Down River adding 699,000 people. This would make Detroit the 5th largest city and increase the tax base. Forget the issue of the mechanism to do it...[[referring to MI legislation to annexation of cities). I am curious as to would this be a good thing for Detroit in terms of stature, tax base, diversification of the population, and a new way people view the city...Also, would people in these communities as well as Detroiters be opposed to it??? The city would be 340 square miles and 1.6 million. Out of the ten largest cities in the US, it would be 6th in population. It would be 8th out of 10 in terms of size...Chicago and Philadelphia would be the two smaller cities; whjile LA, New York, Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, San Diego, and Pheonix would all still be larger than this New Detroit of 340 square miles.

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You're talking about amalgamation of Detroit to its neighboring Wayne County suburbs. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! It's comes to the issues to race cards, politics, huge tax base and city services. The SBC laws in 1978 would allow it to happen unless a new State Constitution Convention was planned.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET!

Becuase Detroit will stay Detroit and suburbs will stay the suburbs, that's all for Neda's sake.

Please, make it stop!! Detroit is Detroit and the suburbs are the suburbs. How many threads are there on this subject now?

Stromberg2

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Originally Posted by bailey

This thread AGAIN? It would be nice if the mods..instead of purging posters..would purge repetitive, beat to death topics.

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That, I could agree with.