Moving to East English Village

My girlfriend and I are considering a move to East English Village and are interested in some first hand perspective. I've been enamored with the neighborhood since I was a kid. My aunt and uncle lived on Berkshire in Morningside until the late '80s and I have many fond memories of playing with my cousins in what was then a very safe neighborhood. I drove through recently and discovered that urban blight has taken over Morningside although EEV seems to have held on. I'm wondering what EEV's prospects for long-term survival are. Home prices there are very attractive given the quality of the architecture but I wonder if they've hit bottom yet. We do have a child on the way so schools are a major concern as well. I'm hoping that those of you who live in or around EEV could offer some guidance as to which blocks are the best [[north of Warren seems to have nicer houses but south of Warren has lower crime?) and what some of my school options would be. We can't afford private school at this point although that could change in a few years. We want to live in the city but don't want to do ourselves or our children a disservice by moving to a declining neighborhood. We're already aware of the increased costs associated with taxes, insurance, etc. Really we'd be interested in hearing what anybody has to say and would like to hear any arguments for and against the move.

Unfortunately East English is declining. It's not what it was in the 80's. There have been a couple car jackings on Warren near there and a kid was shot during one of them. Home prices have really tanked in Harper Woods. Crime is escalating but you can get a house in the Grosse Pointe district cheap. Harper Woods has terrific city services but burglaries and thefts are becoming common place.

Thanks for the info. I know it's not what it was back in the day and there's no question it's declined. I guess I'm just trying to figure out if the decline is ongoing or if EEV is poised for a comeback or has at least stabilized to some degree.

Right. EEV is declining and flanked nearly all sides by very bad areas. Safety is an issue in terms of home, person and personal property as break and enterings are up all over the city.

The east side of Detroit is experiencing the higher level of abandonment, dumping, and more exodus, with increasing crime in the eastern suburbs especially HW. And whatever further consolidation of policing and services is only going to make it worse. There's only one precinct spread thin all the way up thru east seven mile over to eight mile and Gratiot? No, in IMO this is not the time... pre EFM and or all the other pending changes, adaptations.

What is the name of the precinct that covers nearly all of the east side

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Originally Posted by Shollin

Unfortunately East English is declining. It's not what it was in the 80's. There have been a couple car jackings on Warren near there and a kid was shot during one of them. Home prices have really tanked in Harper Woods. Crime is escalating but you can get a house in the Grosse Pointe district cheap. Harper Woods has terrific city services but burglaries and thefts are becoming common place.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Right. EEV is flanked nearly all sides by very bad areas. The east side of Detroit is experiencing the higher level of abandonment, dumping, and more exodus, with increasing crime in the eastern suburbs especially HW. And whatever further consolidation of policing and services is only going to make it worse. There's only one pricinct from spread thin all the way up thru east seven mile over to eight mile Gratiot? No, in IMO this is not the time... pre EFM and or all the other pending changes, adaptations.

What is the name of the precinct that covers nearly all of the east side

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There's one on Nevada, then there's the old 9th precinct on Gratiot and Gunston.

The 7th [[Gratiot & Mack) and fifth precincts were shuttered under Kilpatrick.

But as a person who lives on the eastside now, I would hold off on buying any property anywhere in the city if you expect a reasonable quality of life or to make a profit from it any time soon.

There are quite frankly a ton of Detroit home owners who now wish they had left the city before the bottom hit in the city and in the economy, and are now stuck with huge motgages and worthless properties and looking for any type of out that isn't financially damaging to them.

edit: To the OP, I don't mean to sound so negative in my post, but as a resident of Detroit now who will be getting out [[of Michigan) soon, I must be honest and tell you it is absolutely not a good time to be in the city, outside of the few marginally yuppified areas around downtown.

Whether positive or negative I'm looking for people's unvarnished opinions and I definitely appreciate your thoughts. It's looking like the nays have it so far!

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Right. EEV is declining and flanked nearly all sides by very bad areas. Safety is an issue in terms of home, person and personal property as break and enterings are up all over the city.

The east side of Detroit is experiencing the higher level of abandonment, dumping, and more exodus, with increasing crime in the eastern suburbs especially HW. And whatever further consolidation of policing and services is only going to make it worse. There's only one precinct spread thin all the way up thru east seven mile over to eight mile and Gratiot? No, in IMO this is not the time... pre EFM and or all the other pending changes, adaptations.

What is the name of the precinct that covers nearly all of the east side

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I don't think it's called a precinct anymore, just the Eastern District, and it's on Gratiot.

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Originally Posted by Shollin

Unfortunately East English is declining. It's not what it was in the 80's. There have been a couple car jackings on Warren near there and a kid was shot during one of them. Home prices have really tanked in Harper Woods. Crime is escalating but you can get a house in the Grosse Pointe district cheap. Harper Woods has terrific city services but burglaries and thefts are becoming common place.

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With the improving economy home prices are inching up in Grosse Pointe. 2 of my friends who are realtors in GP are complaining that there are hardly any homes for sale. Looks like most are now happy to sit on their homes while prices rise. On my street 2-3 years ago there were probably 15-25 homes for sale between Jefferson and Mack at any given time, now there might be 2 or 3. Plus most of the foreclosures have dried up.

I lived in Morningside until 1995 and finally moved out after being robbed at gunpoint in my driveway. All of my neighbors had been victims of crime: B&E, auto theft, armed robbery, murders in the area. Gunshots in the evening were normal. Recently I drove through the area and both the residential and commercial strip on Warren had gone downhill very noticeably. I was however a bit impressed at how much business still seems to thrive on Harper.

Personally, I don't recommend the area but I moved into Morningside in 1984 against everyone's recommendation and had at least six very good years there. there were many decent buisnesses at the time, churches, bars/pubs, attractive housing. EEV was always a good deal nicer than Morningside. We were the transition area.

Maybe I'm naive in my hope that the rot will stop at Outer Drive. The fact that EEV is one of the neighborhoods targeted by the city for enhanced services, increased code enforcement, etc. seems to bode well for it. It's probably too soon to tell at this point. I've been planning to attend one of their neighborhood meetings to try to get my finger on the pulse of what's happening.

I have no regrets about moving into Morningside. Eventually it became too dangerous for me. I was single without significant other or children to add to the math.

Follow your heart after consideration of the pros and cons. I always thought EEV was like Rosedale Park - beautiful and captivating. And in what other large city in the US would such large quality homes be so affordable? But crime and abandonment are major concerns.

My experience in 1984 was I that I could not talk myself out of giving Morningside a try.

In case you weren't aware, EEV has an informative newsletter that they post on line. You can find it [[along with other helpful information) here... http://www.eastenglishvillage.org/

Good luck with your decision

PaulieG

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Originally Posted by PaulieG63

In case you weren't aware, EEV has an informative newsletter that they post on line. You can find it [[along with other helpful information) here... http://www.eastenglishvillage.org/

Good luck with your decision

PaulieG

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Thanks Paulie. I've been reading the newsletter and checking out the HOA website for a while now. The fact that the residents there seem to care and have a strong sense of community is part of what drew me to EEV.

YES, move to East English Village, nice homes, better than living th Richville Grosse Pointe Homes. Cheap property tax rates, too.

I lived in Morningside for 18 years. I moved downtown 3 years ago, not because of crime but because I didn't want to take care of a huge house. I lived on Audubon and Kryptonite and I are good friends. Audubon is still one of the nicest streets in the area. EEV is not as nice as it was 10 years ago but neither is anywhere else. The price you pay for the quality of home is still a hugh attraction. I would only recommend living between Warren and Mack. The closer to Mack the better. I recently met a guy in his late 20's who moved to EEV a few years ago and he loves it. He feels they have a strong association. Like all neighborhood associations they are only as good as the residents who volunteer. He told me they even started doing a pub crawl to the bars in EEV. Take your time. Look around and see what's available.

I live in East English Village and am really, really tired of people on this board saying it is "declining." I don't know how they are in a position from afar to make such as sweeping statement, but here is the reality coming from someone who wakes up each morning in EEV, good and the bad:
No, it isn't "what it used to be" even 20 years ago it was basically an extension of Grosse Pointe in terms of housing values and the like. It isn't the same, but NOTHING is.
The housing crisis hit EEV really hard. We pulled though finally, though. Vacancy is now at its lowest level since 2008 or so [[about 8.5% now). The difference here is we have a crew of local residents to clean up the properties and mow the lawns. I drove through Harrison Township and saw unmowed vacant properties! We don't have a single unmowed yard as of writing this. Take a drive through if you don't believe me.
Housing prices have finally bounced back. I admit, I didn't know if they ever would. If you're going to buy, buy soon.
I've never been robbed in my driveway, but my dog got out at 10pm on a Saturday night and the President of the Association, my next door neighbor, and someone a few blocks away spent hours about 10 hours combined looking for her [[we found her!). I didn't ask them to, they just wanted to.
My neighbors have become my best friends. We barbecue together and drink together and have dinner parties. People lament the loss of such community as from a bygone era. In EEV you are basically living in that bygone era, except we're integrated [[white, black, gay, straight, every profession and income level you can imagine). I sit on my porch and watch the kids play until the sun goes down.
Crime is mostly limited to property crime [[not surprisingly, vacant houses). Harper and Warren are really junky and there was a carjacking on Warren within the past year. We have both a private security company and volunteer patrollers. You have a problem? You have the phone number of all the board members in your newsletter. Any time, day or night, a bunch of people will come over at the drop of a hat to help you.
The housing stock is out-of-this-world, as you've stated.
In terms of areas, the best area is easily south of Warren. The houses currently listed average around 50K but there are deals to be had still. You're basically okay anywhere in EEV, but I would avoid the blocks immediately off of Harper. They aren't as genteel as the rest of the neighborhood, for the most part, but compared to the rest of Detroit look fine.
If you've lived in any other urban area, you'll do fine in EEV. I compare issues here with average areas of any other major city, as opposed to the rest of Detroit or the suburbs.
Now what do I like best? The neighbors, the housing stock, the TREES. The silence at night. Living that Detroit life so many people who fled swear up and down is dead and gone.
What now? Come to a neighborhood meeting. You will be astounded. We have 100 - 200 attendees every month. They're at St. Clare of Montefalco, at Mack and Whittier, at 7:30pm on the second Wednesday of each month.
Also we'll be having a home tour in September...keep your eyes on the website and the e-newsletter on there. Best of luck and hope to see you around the neighborhood!

One of our newer residents [[moved to EEV from the suburbs) has her own take on it so you don't just have to take my yammering for it:
http://liveunitedsem.org/blog/entry/...munity-matters

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Originally Posted by poobert

I live in East English Village and am really, really tired of people on this board saying it is "declining." I don't know how they are in a position from afar to make such as sweeping statement, but here is the reality coming from someone who wakes up each morning in EEV, good and the bad:
No, it isn't "what it used to be" even 20 years ago it was basically an extension of Grosse Pointe in terms of housing values and the like. It isn't the same, but NOTHING is.
The housing crisis hit EEV really hard. We pulled though finally, though. Vacancy is now at its lowest level since 2008 or so [[about 8.5% now). The difference here is we have a crew of local residents to clean up the properties and mow the lawns. I drove through Harrison Township and saw unmowed vacant properties! We don't have a single unmowed yard as of writing this. Take a drive through if you don't believe me.
Housing prices have finally bounced back. I admit, I didn't know if they ever would. If you're going to buy, buy soon.
I've never been robbed in my driveway, but my dog got out at 10pm on a Saturday night and the President of the Association, my next door neighbor, and someone a few blocks away spent hours about 10 hours combined looking for her [[we found her!). I didn't ask them to, they just wanted to.
My neighbors have become my best friends. We barbecue together and drink together and have dinner parties. People lament the loss of such community as from a bygone era. In EEV you are basically living in that bygone era, except we're integrated [[white, black, gay, straight, every profession and income level you can imagine). I sit on my porch and watch the kids play until the sun goes down.
Crime is mostly limited to property crime [[not surprisingly, vacant houses). Harper and Warren are really junky and there was a carjacking on Warren within the past year. We have both a private security company and volunteer patrollers. You have a problem? You have the phone number of all the board members in your newsletter. Any time, day or night, a bunch of people will come over at the drop of a hat to help you.
The housing stock is out-of-this-world, as you've stated.
In terms of areas, the best area is easily south of Warren. The houses currently listed average around 50K but there are deals to be had still. You're basically okay anywhere in EEV, but I would avoid the blocks immediately off of Harper. They aren't as genteel as the rest of the neighborhood, for the most part, but compared to the rest of Detroit look fine.
If you've lived in any other urban area, you'll do fine in EEV. I compare issues here with average areas of any other major city, as opposed to the rest of Detroit or the suburbs.
Now what do I like best? The neighbors, the housing stock, the TREES. The silence at night. Living that Detroit life so many people who fled swear up and down is dead and gone.
What now? Come to a neighborhood meeting. You will be astounded. We have 100 - 200 attendees every month. They're at St. Clare of Montefalco, at Mack and Whittier, at 7:30pm on the second Wednesday of each month.
Also we'll be having a home tour in September...keep your eyes on the website and the e-newsletter on there. Best of luck and hope to see you around the neighborhood!

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That sounds awesome, poobert.

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Originally Posted by Danny

YES, move to East English Village, nice homes, better than living th Richville Grosse Pointe Homes. Cheap property tax rates, too.

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Having lived in both areas this statement is totally false!

scottn55, I to was [[am) excited by the prospect of calling East English Village home! I have shifted my focus somewhat over the last year...towards downtown...but still have "pangs" for my first true Detroit neighborhood love...EEV!

Anyways, I started a thread back in March 2011 asking the same question...and recieved some excellent feedback! I don't think the the thread is too dated to not be useful in your current endeavor...hope you find this helpful...

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...nglish+Village

PaulieG

I've lived in EEV for nearly a decade now. I still like living there, but the neighborhood has taken a few hits over that time--foreclosed homes, an increase in crime, etc. However, we still have a strong and active homeowners association, which helps things greatly. I hope that with the new East English Village Academy on the site of the old Finney building that it will attract new homeowners to the area. One other thing: it may have once been true crime was lower below Warren Ave, but I think that is no longer true. For better and for worse, people who a decade ago could not have come close to affording a house in EEV are now moving in. I can speak from experience on my block that we've had some great people move in and some lousy ones [[in particular, drug dealers who moved in from the suburbs).

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Originally Posted by poobert

I live in East English Village and am really, really tired of people on this board saying it is "declining." I don't know how they are in a position from afar to make such as sweeping statement, but here is the reality coming from someone who wakes up each morning in EEV, good and the bad:
No, it isn't "what it used to be" even 20 years ago it was basically an extension of Grosse Pointe in terms of housing values and the like. It isn't the same, but NOTHING is.
The housing crisis hit EEV really hard. We pulled though finally, though. Vacancy is now at its lowest level since 2008 or so [[about 8.5% now). The difference here is we have a crew of local residents to clean up the properties and mow the lawns. I drove through Harrison Township and saw unmowed vacant properties! We don't have a single unmowed yard as of writing this. Take a drive through if you don't believe me.
Housing prices have finally bounced back. I admit, I didn't know if they ever would. If you're going to buy, buy soon.
I've never been robbed in my driveway, but my dog got out at 10pm on a Saturday night and the President of the Association, my next door neighbor, and someone a few blocks away spent hours about 10 hours combined looking for her [[we found her!). I didn't ask them to, they just wanted to.
My neighbors have become my best friends. We barbecue together and drink together and have dinner parties. People lament the loss of such community as from a bygone era. In EEV you are basically living in that bygone era, except we're integrated [[white, black, gay, straight, every profession and income level you can imagine). I sit on my porch and watch the kids play until the sun goes down.
Crime is mostly limited to property crime [[not surprisingly, vacant houses). Harper and Warren are really junky and there was a carjacking on Warren within the past year. We have both a private security company and volunteer patrollers. You have a problem? You have the phone number of all the board members in your newsletter. Any time, day or night, a bunch of people will come over at the drop of a hat to help you.
The housing stock is out-of-this-world, as you've stated.
In terms of areas, the best area is easily south of Warren. The houses currently listed average around 50K but there are deals to be had still. You're basically okay anywhere in EEV, but I would avoid the blocks immediately off of Harper. They aren't as genteel as the rest of the neighborhood, for the most part, but compared to the rest of Detroit look fine.
If you've lived in any other urban area, you'll do fine in EEV. I compare issues here with average areas of any other major city, as opposed to the rest of Detroit or the suburbs.
Now what do I like best? The neighbors, the housing stock, the TREES. The silence at night. Living that Detroit life so many people who fled swear up and down is dead and gone.
What now? Come to a neighborhood meeting. You will be astounded. We have 100 - 200 attendees every month. They're at St. Clare of Montefalco, at Mack and Whittier, at 7:30pm on the second Wednesday of each month.
Also we'll be having a home tour in September...keep your eyes on the website and the e-newsletter on there. Best of luck and hope to see you around the neighborhood!

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Thanks for your post. Exactly the kind of first hand perspective I was looking for. There's a very good chance I'll be attending a meeting in the next couple of months and I'll definitely be coming down for the home tour.

In doing my online real estate searches I've noticed that most of the homes for sale are on Harvard and Grayton. There appears to be virtually nothing for sale on Outer Drive, Kensington, and Yorkshire and very little on Bishop. Am I to surmise from this that the westernmost streets in EEV are the most desirable?

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Originally Posted by scottn55

In doing my online real estate searches I've noticed that most of the homes for sale are on Harvard and Grayton. There appears to be virtually nothing for sale on Outer Drive, Kensington, and Yorkshire and very little on Bishop. Am I to surmise from this that the westernmost streets in EEV are the most desirable?

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Yes, the larger and more desirable homes tend to be in the southwest corner of EEV. I would still drive around the whole are as there are many lovely homes on all the streets and a few suprises. I know of one home with not quite a carriage house [[no bathroom facilities, but two nice rooms over the garage) but still very unique for the area.

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Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Yes, the larger and more desirable homes tend to be in the southwest corner of EEV. I would still drive around the whole are as there are many lovely homes on all the streets and a few suprises. I know of one home with not quite a carriage house [[no bathroom facilities, but two nice rooms over the garage) but still very unique for the area.

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Did any of the notable architects design homes in EEV that you know of?

The only architect designed home I can find is 4526 Grayton. The home was designed by Leonard Willeke in 1942 [[not one of his best designs). I have an image but cannot find it. A google map search will get you to the home. A lion's share of the homes were built by Cox & Baker who were also building quite a few homes in Grosse Pointe at the same time.

Closer to Mack, obviously the better. I think overall the neighborhood will get better. True, a few break ends over the past Christmas holiday. We have some great long time residents of EEV, that makes it so worthwhile!

Values are up slightly. There is a house on the 2nd block of Bishop that is listed and actually I will be listing my Cox & Baker Cape Cod [[1st block) very soon but not because I no longer like the neighbohood.
I need to be closer to work and my fiancee has a larger home in Troy, [[not that we really need more space I might add).

Thanks to everyone who's offered their perspectives and opinions. It's been especially nice to hear from those of you who currently live in EEV. Hopefully soon we'll be able to call each other "neighbor"! Still need to figure out the school thing though...

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Originally Posted by scottn55

Thanks to everyone who's offered their perspectives and opinions. It's been especially nice to hear from those of you who currently live in EEV. Hopefully soon we'll be able to call each other "neighbor"! Still need to figure out the school thing though...

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St. Claire is right there at the end of Outer Drive. You also have St. Paul's, Our Lady Star of the Sea, and St. Joan [[if you want to drive a bit further) for Catholic Schools. If you want to spend a fortune there is University Liggett School or the Grosse Pointe Academy. Also there is the Waldorf School in Indian Village. I am not up in the the charter schools in the area, someone on here will have that info.

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Originally Posted by scottn55

In doing my online real estate searches I've noticed that most of the homes for sale are on Harvard and Grayton. There appears to be virtually nothing for sale on Outer Drive, Kensington, and Yorkshire and very little on Bishop. Am I to surmise from this that the westernmost streets in EEV are the most desirable?

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Tough to say. The most stately homes by far are on Kensington and East Outer Drive south of Waveney, but there are predictably none for sale. The lots are big too. Harvard is very nice the whole way up, really. Grayton has modest houses south of Cornwall, similar to what you'd find in say Harper Woods except many having the pre-war architectural detail of moorish arches, cove ceilings, natural fireplaces, etc. Generally though it does ring true that the closer to Mack the better, but there are notable exceptions and nothing here is scary. Really in my experience except for a couple blocks the housing stock is all desirable. Even in the most modest-seeming houses you have the most charming details.

In your decision to move to East English Village, be sure to listen to all the people who do not live there.

A few months ago an engineer from Sweden was planning on moving to Detroit. He posted a question on this board. By the time we were done with him, not only did he not move to Detroit, he decided to not move to the USA. Scared him to death.

I grew up at 3472 Bishop. Five houses off Mack. My parents paid 25k, in 1956. We lived there for 46 years. We sold it in 1999 for 139.9. I have been keeping an eye on it. It has been in foreclosure. It recently sold for 15k. It was a beautiful house. 4 bedrooms, 2 full baths.built in 1947 by Cox and Baker, cape cod style. Loved the neighborhood.

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Originally Posted by scottn55

Thanks to everyone who's offered their perspectives and opinions. It's been especially nice to hear from those of you who currently live in EEV. Hopefully soon we'll be able to call each other "neighbor"! Still need to figure out the school thing though...

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It's expensive when you factor in the private schools, speaking from experience. God knows what Detroit schools will be like in five or so more years for you.

The good thing about the taxes/expenses is that it is a NEZ.

http://www.detroitmi.gov/Departments...1/Default.aspx

You get a 1 page form from the Assessor's Office, submit it between April and October, and in about six months they cut your taxes usually by about 33%. Helps out tremendously, and reasonably easy to do.

In addition, in regards to services...there are 4 high ranking city officials who are all within 4 blocks of me in EEV. Shit gets done.

Don't do it, Scott. It's not worth it.

I lived in Morningside and East English Village for 24 years.
I had far too many issues and incidents there.
I'd hate to see you risk life and limb for no good reason.

Stay where you are, man.
You're better off there.

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Originally Posted by HarperNottingham

Don't do it, Scott. It's not worth it.

I lived in Morningside and East English Village for 24 years.
I had far too many issues and incidents there.
I'd hate to see you risk life and limb for no good reason.

Stay where you are, man.
You're better off there.

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Since we never used the terms "Morningside" or "East English Village" when i lived in Detroit, would someone please post the rlative boundaries of the two areas for me. I used to live on Nottingham between Yorkshire and Grayton. Does that area have a name?

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Since we never used the terms "Morningside" or "East English Village" when i lived in Detroit, would someone please post the rlative boundaries of the two areas for me. I used to live on Nottingham between Yorkshire and Grayton. Does that area have a name?

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That would be the neighborhood in question. Morningside is to the west and roughly bounded by Alter, Mack, Harper, and Outer Drive. The area now known as East English Village is your old neighborhood bounded by Cadieux, Harper, Outer Drive, and Mack.

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Originally Posted by scottn55

That would be the neighborhood in question. Morningside is to the west and roughly bounded by Alter, Mack, Harper, and Outer Drive. The area now known as East English Village is your old neighborhood bounded by Cadieux, Harper, Outer Drive, and Mack.

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Hermod's old neighborhood is north of Harper.

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Originally Posted by HarperNottingham

Don't do it, Scott. It's not worth it.

I lived in Morningside and East English Village for 24 years.
I had far too many issues and incidents there.
I'd hate to see you risk life and limb for no good reason.

Stay where you are, man.
You're better off there.

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Moving to EEV with your eyes closed is a bad idea, and there are some very good reasons stay away. If you have a VERY good idea of what you are doing then move to the area. I will add another twist [[mentioned a little earlier here) if you want to live on the eastside, look in Grosse Pointe. Besides the large homes everyone knows about there are many moderate sized homes at reasonable prices [[especially in Grosse Pointe Woods) and prices are rising. With a very good school system and the other amenities its a viable option.

[I really can't believe that anybody with little kids is serious about moving to a house in Detroit . Come on now, really?
All the profiles in the Friday Free Press home section feature Detroit middle aged singles or couples with very good jobs who are kind of fixing up houses as a hobby.
If you have children and crave an inner city lifestyle, [[and don't kid yourself that you are living in a suburb environment) move somewhere like Harbortown or Lafayette Park and send your kids to private schools.

Why can't a family live in a house and send the kids to private schools?

I don't think that would be the biggest issue related to purchasing a home in Detroit.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

Why can't a family live in a house and send the kids to private schools?

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Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Moving to EEV with your eyes closed is a bad idea, and there are some very good reasons stay away. If you have a VERY good idea of what you are doing then move to the area. I will add another twist [[mentioned a little earlier here) if you want to live on the eastside, look in Grosse Pointe. Besides the large homes everyone knows about there are many moderate sized homes at reasonable prices [[especially in Grosse Pointe Woods) and prices are rising. With a very good school system and the other amenities its a viable option.

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Yes I'm also considering the Grosse Pointes. The aforementioned aunt and uncle from Morningside moved to GP City although I've looked primarily in the Park. The homes in GP which we could afford are mostly in the Park or Woods and if I'm going to pay Grosse Pointe money I'd want to be in the GP South district. Royal Oak and Ferndale are other options I've considered. EEV is attractive because it offers close proximity to GP while allowing us to own a larger and more comfortable home than we'd otherwise be able to afford. If I need to get creative when it comes to schooling [[DPS was never an option) and take care to not leave valuables sitting in the car I'm OK with that. It's like that where we live now. If I need to worry about walking out to pick up the paper and being shot to death in my driveway that's another matter entirely. That is why I started this thread- to find out from the people who live there [[as well as former residents) what the scoop is.

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Originally Posted by poobert

I live in East English Village and am really, really tired of people on this board saying it is "declining." I don't know how they are in a position from afar to make such as sweeping statement, but here is the reality coming from someone who wakes up each morning in EEV, good and the bad:
No, it isn't "what it used to be" even 20 years ago it was basically an extension of Grosse Pointe in terms of housing values and the like. It isn't the same, but NOTHING is.
The housing crisis hit EEV really hard. We pulled though finally, though. Vacancy is now at its lowest level since 2008 or so [[about 8.5% now). The difference here is we have a crew of local residents to clean up the properties and mow the lawns. I drove through Harrison Township and saw unmowed vacant properties! We don't have a single unmowed yard as of writing this. Take a drive through if you don't believe me.
Housing prices have finally bounced back. I admit, I didn't know if they ever would. If you're going to buy, buy soon.
I've never been robbed in my driveway, but my dog got out at 10pm on a Saturday night and the President of the Association, my next door neighbor, and someone a few blocks away spent hours about 10 hours combined looking for her [[we found her!). I didn't ask them to, they just wanted to.
My neighbors have become my best friends. We barbecue together and drink together and have dinner parties. People lament the loss of such community as from a bygone era. In EEV you are basically living in that bygone era, except we're integrated [[white, black, gay, straight, every profession and income level you can imagine). I sit on my porch and watch the kids play until the sun goes down.
Crime is mostly limited to property crime [[not surprisingly, vacant houses). Harper and Warren are really junky and there was a carjacking on Warren within the past year. We have both a private security company and volunteer patrollers. You have a problem? You have the phone number of all the board members in your newsletter. Any time, day or night, a bunch of people will come over at the drop of a hat to help you.
The housing stock is out-of-this-world, as you've stated.
In terms of areas, the best area is easily south of Warren. The houses currently listed average around 50K but there are deals to be had still. You're basically okay anywhere in EEV, but I would avoid the blocks immediately off of Harper. They aren't as genteel as the rest of the neighborhood, for the most part, but compared to the rest of Detroit look fine.
If you've lived in any other urban area, you'll do fine in EEV. I compare issues here with average areas of any other major city, as opposed to the rest of Detroit or the suburbs.
Now what do I like best? The neighbors, the housing stock, the TREES. The silence at night. Living that Detroit life so many people who fled swear up and down is dead and gone.
What now? Come to a neighborhood meeting. You will be astounded. We have 100 - 200 attendees every month. They're at St. Clare of Montefalco, at Mack and Whittier, at 7:30pm on the second Wednesday of each month.
Also we'll be having a home tour in September...keep your eyes on the website and the e-newsletter on there. Best of luck and hope to see you around the neighborhood!

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A lot of what you wrote could be said about the beautiful North West side neighborhood I lived in [[Littlefield between Vassar and St.Martins) However, I can't escape the facts that city services are crappy to non-existent and schools are terrible. Also,if I have a choice, why should I live in an area that just isn't secure as far as crime goes?

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Originally Posted by scottn55

Yes I'm also considering the Grosse Pointes. The aforementioned aunt and uncle from Morningside moved to GP City although I've looked primarily in the Park. The homes in GP which we could afford are mostly in the Park or Woods and if I'm going to pay Grosse Pointe money I'd want to be in the GP South district. Royal Oak and Ferndale are other options I've considered. EEV is attractive because it offers close proximity to GP while allowing us to own a larger and more comfortable home than we'd otherwise be able to afford. If I need to get creative when it comes to schooling [[DPS was never an option) and take care to not leave valuables sitting in the car I'm OK with that. It's like that where we live now. If I need to worry about walking out to pick up the paper and being shot to death in my driveway that's another matter entirely. That is why I started this thread- to find out from the people who live there [[as well as former residents) what the scoop is.

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There's nothing wrong with Grosse Pointe North. My kids went to North and it's a great district. In the last 5-10 years, some families from Detroit moved into Harper Woods and go to North and all of a sudden test scores declined some and now it's not as good of a school. It's run by the same people who run Grosse Pointe South. The quality of education isn't different. A handful of new students bring down scores slightly and now it isn't as good of a school anymore.

EEV is, aesthetically, one of my favorite part of town. The homes are absolutely beautiful.

However, the area has gone down. I moved from there five years ago. Renters began to move in and I've since heard that there are a couple of group homes in the area.

Even though the area is much better than the rest of the city, you have to consider that you will still be subject to Detroit City Services that are diminishing by the day. What does that mean? Slow response time for police calls and the fact that you may or may not have a nearby firehouse. Also, if you have kids, unless you plan on sending parochial school, they'll have to attend a DPS or charter school.

You also need to consider that the surrounding areas are high crime.

Yes, if anybody wants to move to Detroit ,they have to consider tht private schools are just about mandatory [[if you desire college for your children)
I've already been this route [[$6,000) plus a year.
I'm sure the houses are just fine,but I kind of doubt that you want your kids to ride around the block on their bikes by themselves.

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Originally Posted by swiburn

I'm sure the houses are just fine,but I kind of doubt that you want your kids to ride around the block on their bikes by themselves.

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True that, kids are much better off in some exurban subdivision where they can ride back and forth between the cul-de-sac and the highway all day long.

A lot of valid points brought up here, but I think people are missing that the OP already understands the city and the challenges that go along with it. Sure GP is nice, but not everybody can afford it, even if it's cheaper than 10 years ago. Sure EEV was nicer 10 years ago, but it's still nice.
I moved here for essentially the same reasons as he wants to, but I don't have kids yet. I did buy the house with having kids in mind because St. Clare of Montefalco is right there. I got an awesome house for a fraction of what it would have cost in GP [[which I can't afford) and a lot of us WANT to stay in the city but lofts and apartments aren't our thing.
To be sure, raising kids in the city is a challenge, but we have a shitload of kids here. None of them cause me any grief, in fact I have an awesome family across the street from me.
I'm really not trying to be the EEV cheerleader, but I'm pretty sure that if somebody even said they'd like to move to Palmer Woods with their family a lot of the responders here would be saying the same kind of stuff and tell the guy to move to Oakland County instead.
Since everybody's thrown in their bit about where I live I think I get to toss my own knowledge into the mix about where other people live too. GP really is great but I don't see myself ever living there. Regarding the Woods in particular, I know two families [[both affluent), one who wants out of the Woods and one who lives in EEV and says he'd never move back to the Woods. Both found it stifling and their neighbors to be real jerks. There are a ton of great people in the Pointes but its reputation for being snooty isn't entirely unwarranted. Sure there are renters and goofballs here but people are generally pretty down-to-earth.

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Originally Posted by antongast

True that, kids are much better off in some exurban subdivision where they can ride back and forth between the cul-de-sac and the highway all day long.

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Sarcasm aside, this is actually quite true.

One of the major advantages of exurban development are the limited access points into subdivisions. This largely eliminates through-traffic, and makes for a safer environment, where you tend to know the folks driving down the street.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

I don't think that would be the biggest issue related to purchasing a home in Detroit.

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Actually by far the NUMBER ONE reason many will not buy in the cty! In fact when I discuss homes in the city its usually the ONLY reason ever brought up as a deal braker!! Also everyone I know who has lived in the city moved IMMEDIATELY once the oldest child turned 4 to areas with good schools.

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Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Actually by far the NUMBER ONE reason many will not buy in the cty! In fact when I discuss homes in the city its usually the ONLY reason ever brought up as a deal braker!! Also everyone I know who has lived in the city moved IMMEDIATELY once the oldest child turned 4 to areas with good schools.

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It is definitely a concern for me. Private/parochial school isn't cheap and could easily negate any savings from the relatively inexpensive housing in EEV. I'm guessing the cost of my home and auto insurance policies will double although I haven't actually consulted my agent about that yet.

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Originally Posted by scottn55

It is definitely a concern for me. Private/parochial school isn't cheap and could easily negate any savings from the relatively inexpensive housing in EEV. I'm guessing the cost of my home and auto insurance policies will double although I haven't actually consulted my agent about that yet.

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I know your budget is better served by the homes in EEV, the insurance rate difference and school system will probably more than make up for purchasing a smaller home. Also the streets between Mack Avenue and Charlevoix running from Fisher Rd. to Outer Drive are very similar to EEV and somewhat more affordable than the homes just one block closer to E. Jefferson.

I don't agree with the people who think it is some kind of horrible crime to raise kids in the city, but if you have kids [[and think you are going to have to use private/parochial schools to educate them) it is unlikely you are going to find that it is cheaper to live in town, especially with interest rates as low as they are now.

Of course I know many people who live in the suburbs and still send their kids to private/parochial schools, so you have to consider what you would be doing if you lived elsewhere.

[QUOTE=mwilbert;329348]I don't agree with the people who think it is some kind of horrible crime to raise kids in the city




I think most people do not think so either but schools will always be the biggest stumbling block to Detroit moving forward.

[QUOTE=p69rrh51;329353]

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

I don't agree with the people who think it is some kind of horrible crime to raise kids in the city




I think most people do not think so either but schools will always be the biggest stumbling block to Detroit moving forward.

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What a difference a block makes... if I were to move to GP I would likely send my child to public schools. But to be clear the less expensive housing is not my only reason for considering EEV. By all accounts the people who live there are awesome and help foster a genuine neighborhood environment. My own [[limited) experiences in the neighborhood tend to reinforce that. So there are certainly some intangibles that come into play. Grosse Pointe is beautiful as well, and I've spent a LOT more time there than I have in EEV. You know what's crazy though? The same guy has lived next door to my aunt and uncle for 25 years and I've never seen the man much less spoken to him. I'm not sure that my cousins even know his name!

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Originally Posted by scottn55

. But to be clear the less expensive housing is not my only reason for considering EEV. By all accounts the people who live there are awesome and help foster a genuine neighborhood environment.

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In my opinion, that is a much better basis on which to decide where to live. But you are wise to be thinking about the practical issues as well.

Back in the mid 80's when time for Kindergarten rolled around, we opted to send our son to a private church-affiliated school in the area of 7 mile and Gratiot. His teachers were wonderful, but when he started coming home using the same language and grammar the little kids [[who were then still the minority in the school) did...."he be goin' wit us" for example, and talking about how some of these kids openly discussed the illegal drug dealing their older brothers did, we decided it was time to get him out of there for 1st grade. Again...the teachers were great, but the negative influence was too overwhelming..and this was in a PRIVATE school! Think LONG AND HARD about putting your child in the DPS system, or even in a suburban school...they are getting just as bad in many areas. And I don't even need to get started on the safety issues. Teachers can't teach any more. They are too busy trying to keep themselves and other students alive.

YOU have a choice of where you live.....a child does not! So don't put them in what would probably be a very negative situation for them...they have no way out if you "love the neighborhood" and "have great neighbors". Please THINK!!!

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Originally Posted by grumpyoldlady

Back in the mid 80's when time for Kindergarten rolled around, we opted to send our son to a private church-affiliated school in the area of 7 mile and Gratiot. His teachers were wonderful, but when he started coming home using the same language and grammar the little kids [[who were then still the minority in the school) did...."he be goin' wit us" for example, and talking about how some of these kids openly discussed the illegal drug dealing their older brothers did, we decided it was time to get him out of there for 1st grade. Again...the teachers were great, but the negative influence was too overwhelming..and this was in a PRIVATE school! Think LONG AND HARD about putting your child in the DPS system, or even in a suburban school...they are getting just as bad in many areas. And I don't even need to get started on the safety issues. Teachers can't teach any more. They are too busy trying to keep themselves and other students alive.

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I don't need to think "long and hard" about putting my child in the DPS system because, as I stated in a couple of previous posts, I never considered it an option. From the tone of your other post I gather that you think I'm crazy or perhaps even stupid for even considering this neighborhood. Trust me when I tell you that nothing could be further from the truth. By all accounts St Clare of Montefalco operates a great school and, were I to move to EEV, this is almost certainly the school I would enroll my child in when the time comes. I'm not some starry-eyed hipster moron who thinks it would be "cool" to live downtown and I most certainly am not going to put my child in a situation which would be unreasonably dangerous or would compromise their educational opportunities. So tell me, please, how the situation I've described would be "very negative" for my child. I'm well acquainted with the problems facing the city and its schools and any decision that I make regarding where to locate will take that into account.

Well, until you've moved to Detroit, this is all just "mindless conjectural."
And what makes you think this St. Clare School will be there in 5 years? Catholic schools bordering innner cities do not have a good chance [[See Holy Rosary, Holy Redeemer and St. John Vianney in Flint)
Check back in four years, if you indeed move to Detroit.

Yes, of course. I was being a bit tongue in cheek. Again IMO this is not the time for BUYING a house in Detroit...

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Originally Posted by p69rrh51

[Schools]Actually by far the NUMBER ONE reason many will not buy in the cty! In fact when I discuss homes in the city its usually the ONLY reason ever brought up as a deal braker!! Also everyone I know who has lived in the city moved IMMEDIATELY once the oldest child turned 4 to areas with good schools.

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Absolutely. I mean, why would you want to spend the extra money? This isn't Washington D.C. or NYC. where your house is worth a lot of money and you'll get it back in a sale.
Anyhow, this is all just "hot air talk" until you actually buy a house in Detroit.
There are a lot of posts like this on the Forum, all starting with: "I'm thinking of buying a house in Detroit."
Yeah, right , buy one.

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Originally Posted by swiburn

Well, until you've moved to Detroit, this is all just "mindless conjectural."
And what makes you think this St. Clare School will be there in 5 years? Catholic schools bordering innner cities do not have a good chance [[See Holy Rosary, Holy Redeemer and St. John Vianney in Flint)
Check back in four years, if you indeed move to Detroit.

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I know St. Clare's enrollment is steady. Yes, it could close, but the world could also end tomorrow. One has to be cautious but you can't factor in every variable in the known universe. St. Clare also doesn't border the "inner city." It is in Grosse Pointe bordering the far east side. "Inner city" has actual meaning, and it is not "the City of Detroit."
St. Joan of Arc is very close by too.
One thing that hasn't been brought up is the challenges of raising a child in the suburbs.
One of my best friends has a young kid in an inner ring suburb, and, well, he may be the last kid in that inner ring suburb. The suburbs are aging rapidly - this isn't 1975. There aren't loads of kids around anymore. Her entire area is grumpy old ladies and some pervy old guys. The kid has no friends to play with except when they visit my house, ironically. It's actually pretty sad. Frankly, that is NO way to raise a child, with nothing but four walls and video games.

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Originally Posted by swiburn

Absolutely. I mean, why would you want to spend the extra money? This isn't Washington D.C. or NYC. where your house is worth a lot of money and you'll get it back in a sale.
Anyhow, this is all just "hot air talk" until you actually buy a house in Detroit.
There are a lot of posts like this on the Forum, all starting with: "I'm thinking of buying a house in Detroit."
Yeah, right , buy one.

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Yeah you're right I'm completely full of shit and have never had any intention of moving to the neighborhood. Thanks everybody for playing along and indulging me while I screw around on the internet and waste everybody's time including my own.

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Originally Posted by swiburn

Absolutely. I mean, why would you want to spend the extra money? This isn't Washington D.C. or NYC. where your house is worth a lot of money and you'll get it back in a sale.
Anyhow, this is all just "hot air talk" until you actually buy a house in Detroit.
There are a lot of posts like this on the Forum, all starting with: "I'm thinking of buying a house in Detroit."
Yeah, right , buy one.

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So he should ask about neighborhoods after he buys in said neighborhood?

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Originally Posted by Shollin

So he should ask about neighborhoods after he buys in said neighborhood?

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Well, back around l5 years ago, people didn't consult forums before they bought houses!! It's the equivalent, really, of going up to strangers on the street and asking their opinion.
Go check out the actual neighborhood and ask questions of real people instead .

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Originally Posted by swiburn

Well, back around l5 years ago, people didn't consult forums before they bought houses!! It's the equivalent, really, of going up to strangers on the street and asking their opinion.
Go check out the actual neighborhood and ask questions of real people instead .

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When I moved into Harper Woods in 1993 before forums existed, I did ask strangers in the neighborhood about the area. People who did live in the area did answer his questions, or are they not "real" people?

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Originally Posted by scottn55

Yeah you're right I'm completely full of shit and have never had any intention of moving to the neighborhood. Thanks everybody for playing along and indulging me while I screw around on the internet and waste everybody's time including my own.

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Wasting something you can neither buy, stop, or get back is foolish.

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Originally Posted by swiburn

Well, back around l5 years ago, people didn't consult forums before they bought houses!! It's the equivalent, really, of going up to strangers on the street and asking their opinion.
Go check out the actual neighborhood and ask questions of real people instead .

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I can assure you I am a real person in the actual neighborhood - at this very moment, in fact. Shall I take a picture with today's newspaper at the street sign?

Also OP has told us several times he'd like to attend the neighborhood meeting.

You're absolutely correct though - now people have the internet which allows easy communciation. It isn't a substitute for real relationships, but is unprecedented in the history of the world for finding information. OP is wisely utilizing this tool. I guess you'd rather him just not and go in blind like back in the day, for whatever freakish reason. Or maybe he should just go around knocking on doors?

You're a real piece of work. I know the heat is miserable, but why don't you just lay off this guy?

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Originally Posted by Shollin

When I moved into Harper Woods in 1993 before forums existed, I did ask strangers in the neighborhood about the area. People who did live in the area did answer his questions, or are they not "real" people?

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Thank you. Again, to be clear, this is only one of the tools I'm using to gain some more knowledge of the neighborhood. I have visited the neighborhood many times over the years and I typically drive through to check out houses for sale etc. when I go to GP to visit family. I haven't attended a neighborhood meeting but I'm planning on it. I thought this would be a good way to reach people who live in the area since I haven't stayed there for an extended period of time in about 10 years when I was house-sitting for relatives in Morningside. A lot has changed in the last ten years and I thought this would be a good place to find out what the scoop is. Again thanks to those of you who have shared your thoughts and experiences. I hope you will continue to do so.

I'll be heading to the neighborhood meeting tonight after work. Maybe I'll see some of you there.

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Originally Posted by scottn55

I'll be heading to the neighborhood meeting tonight after work. Maybe I'll see some of you there.

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How did the meeting go?

I don't live in EEV, but I'm very familiar with it. I love the homes there.

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Originally Posted by EastsideLady

How did the meeting go?

I don't live in EEV, but I'm very familiar with it. I love the homes there.

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I'm glad that I went. It's great to see people who are so committed to their community. The homes are, obviously, gorgeous as they are in many Detroit neighborhoods. The difference in EEV is that the people recognize their homes as being special and take great care of them. Some of the lawns and gardens are spectacular.

So it looks like we're going to do it... Does anybody know anything about the Detroit Land Bank? Has anybody had any experience with them?

Congratulations and welcome to the city Scottn55!

Congratualtions scott55! Make sure you touch base with Bernice Sabatella @ Jim Saros Agency - she knows the neighborhood listings very well.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Congratualtions scott55! Make sure you touch base with Bernice Sabatella @ Jim Saros Agency - she knows the neighborhood listings very well.

Good luck!

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Thanks! I'll look her up. There are still a lot of things which need to be done before we move... dealing with my underwater house in Ypsi chief among them. We'll probably start looking a little harder once the baby's born. I'm pretty excited though!

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Originally Posted by scottn55

Thanks! I'll look her up. There are still a lot of things which need to be done before we move... dealing with my underwater house in Ypsi chief among them. We'll probably start looking a little harder once the baby's born. I'm pretty excited though!

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Unless you are going to pay cash, how do you plan to buy a new house?

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Originally Posted by Shollin

Unless you are going to pay cash, how do you plan to buy a new house?

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Well that does present a bit of a problem. Chances are she would be the one taking out the loan since the Ypsi residence is in my name only. I bought it in '05 so I'm pretty much welded to it. I'm pretty close to EMU and Depot Town so I shouldn't have too much difficulty renting it out. Cash would be an option but would limit us to the lower end of the price spectrum.