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I just watched the movie, it seems to work in Chicago. Has anyone heard of this approach?
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...s-tio-hardiman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CeaseFire_%28Organization%29
http://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/The-Interrupters/70167110?trkid=5966279
the last 2 links don't seem to work, but I'm sure you can figure it out...
I live in CHicago, and they have "minimal" effect on gun violence. Minimal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic01
Yeah, on the day of the horrible school massacre, ten people in Chicago were shot [[not all died). This goes on all the time. I don't think gun violence is being controlled much here.
just thought that every little bit helps... if "minimal" stops one shooting, it's a good thing.
Chicago is one of the few cities with more murders than Detroit, I don't know if that's where we want to look for solutions.
I saw that film and enjoyed it. I think that sort of approach has been needed for decades times 1000. I just don't see the effort needed in Detroit. Too many have been brainwashed into blaming others and making excuses instead of actually dealing with the crime and violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic01
Yep, and they have strict gun laws in Chicago but I guess the criminals are not compliant to them --:rolleyes:--!
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Originally Posted by JVB
We could have Gun Laws that would fill a book thicker than Obamacare and they still wouldn't stop criminals using guns. What is needed is 1) Get liberals out of education. 2) Religion taught again in schools. 2) Judgmental officialdom. 3) Profiling of the population - that's if we are serious of wanting to reduce crime rather than just talk about doing it. Alternatively pass a law to destroy all guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
Passing a law to outlaw the private ownership of firearms would have the same effect that Prohibition had on solving the liquor problem and the current war on drugs is having on drug use.
My suggestion is to have a 3 strike law. If a person has 2 violent or aggressive felonies the third felony becomes life in prison. If a person hasn't learned after 3 strikes then he belongs in prison for life. I know if I had 2 strikes, I'd be living the rest of my life as a saint knowing that I'm one out from being locked up forever. I'd be walking the straight and narrow path.
WTF does religion, judgmental officialdom and profiling mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by coracle
He means he wants to institute a Theocracy. Like Israel or Iran. Next...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinman
LOL; I'm fairly confident none of this has anything to do with stopping gun-related violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by coracle
Tougher gun laws do take guns out of the hands of criminals. We have endless evidence from criminologists. No, you won't end crime, but you will reduce it, and the safest jurisdictions are those with the toughest gun regulations.
Out of curiosity, I Googled "judgmental officialdom" and it found only four pages on the whole internet that contained "non-judgmental officialdom." The rest of the nearby text seemed like random machine-generated conspicuously alluring nonsense and none of the pages had been checked by Norton so I'm not clickin' there!
This seems to be a newly coined phrase.:confused:
Some would say that laws like this 3 strikes method and "zero tolerance" is exactly how we ended up with 2.3million incarcerated individuals, the highest number in recorded human history. Guys in jail for life because they stole something at 18, got in a fight at 22, and violated parole at 25.Quote:
Originally Posted by illwill
I know you specified violent felonies, and I would be more inclined to consider this if law enforcement and politicians weren't using felonization as a means to marginalize the people that they find undesireable. Right now, if you get busted with more than two separate dimebags of pot in your pocket, you can be charged with a felony. A teenaged girl sends a "sexy" photo of herself to a boyfriend, and they are both charged with various child porn felonies. A childhood friend of mine gets busted with a radar detector in his car and he now posesses a felony. Now these folks no longer have access to government services, voting, and firearms in lots of states. What ever happened to classifying criminals as felons after meeting a certain level of criteria, like for example: 1. violent 2. repeat offender times 3 for that particuar offense 3. Number of victims or how badly they were victimized, etc.
Now we've got hundreds of prisons nationwide full of people that are no more a harm to you or me as they are to themselves, who are turned into hardend criminals on the inside and released [[if at all) upon society with few social services and no rehabilitation, because there's no money left for that once you spend it all lockin em up in the first place.
This shit is just madness to me, and it makes me fear law enforcement more than the criminals.
You're not serious are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Guns are illegal in Chicago and DC and they have some of the highest murder rates in the nation. Criminals don't obey gun laws - that's why they're criminals.
Just about everything you posted is the exact opposite of factual.
Oh! I forgot 4) Destroy Hollywood. 5) Ban all computer games.
I'm completely serious, and everything you posted was pretty much wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by JVB
Guns aren't illegal in Chicago. That's unconstitutional. Chicago is surrounded by extreme pro-gun jurisdictions, and that's where the guns come from. Indiana accounts for the vast majority of guns used in Chicago killings. They're all legally purchased, and then sold on the black market to thugs.
Unlike Chicago, DC doesn't have a particularly high murder rate, though again, all the guns are coming from the nutcases in Virginia.
If you have the misfortune of living near pro-weaponry states, you will receive an avalanche of weaponry, regardless of local laws. But there are endless studies showing that laws, when passed on broader scales, do cut down availability, and do cut down violence.
And even in your Chicago and DC cases, the murder rates would likely be even higher if they didn't have tough local gun control. You will likely not find a criminologist who disagrees on this.
The fact is that almost all criminals own guns that were legally purchased, in pro-gun jurisdictions. The whole "if you restrict guns only the criminals will have guns" is the biggest bunch of bull you'll ever hear. Criminals are using guns that were legally purchased by the "good folks" and "bad folks", and, for the "good folks", there's nothing stopping them from falling into the hands of "bad folks".
Chicago's 28 year old handgun ban was just overturned by the Supreme Court, so I suppose technically you're correct although they immediately passed the strictest gun control laws in the nation as a response. For 28 years handguns were illegal in Chicago, yet the murders were committed by people that didn't seem to care about the handgun ban. And now that it is almost impossible to legally carry a gun in Chicago, the murders continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
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Originally Posted by Bham1982
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Originally Posted by Bham1982
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Originally Posted by Bham1982
Oh Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
"The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states."
Source?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Here here! Those people who have encouraged pluralism of thought must be removed from college campuses. Religion shall be tought by their replacements. Teachers who can effect the mass conversion of the populace to that group of people who have the lowest prision rates: atheists. By way of what we will call a judgmental officaldom: the devout will be subject to obscure legal proceedings that culminate in their finding a door to the law specifically made for them. We locate people who have the potential to be subversive [[really anyone who didn't row from Scandinavia to Russia back in the day) and place them in camps where they will work for the glory of a new, crime-free Amerika.Quote:
Originally Posted by coracle
Graet plan komrad!
i thought coracle was being sarcastic, then i read his comment history. you are not giong to fit in here all that well. on a side note all of the best education systems in the world tend to have a more liberal way of teaching so i cant realy agree with you there
Vic01,
Are these the same techniques talked about in the book Don't Shoot by David M. Kennedy? I heard this guy on Fresh Air and was intrigued so I went out and bought the book Very interesting.
I went to DPS, but the kids that went to the much more conservative Catholic Schools in Detroit got a far better education that we did. I don't think you can paint either approach with such a broad brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by louis
Apparently we also need more math teachers, to help us count 1-2-3-4.Quote:
Originally Posted by coracle
Also profiling is always a great idea.
And great rules that the pro-gun crowd puts in place to punish the bad guys like three strikes means life in prison. This 20-year old kid from CN would still have TWO STRIKES LEFT!
I'm starting to wonder if the prison management firms have a back-door support stream to the pro-gun lobby just like GM did to get the streetcar systems dismantled to sell buses. As long as joe blow can purchase assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammo, they will have no problem keeping business booming. How about a prison tax on all gun and ammo sales.
I agree. The gun laws have done nothing here. Criminals will find a way to get guns no matter what. Stopping the problem is much more complex and difficult. Keeping kids from joining gangs, more after school activities, more jobs, the list goes on. Obviously very difficult solutions to achieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by JVB