Honest? John's Sold - The Passing of an Era?

Cass Corridor legend John Thompson has sold his bar/restaurant to Dave Kwiatkowski, who also owns the Sugar House in Corktown, Wright & Co. in downtown, and Café 78, a soon-to-open restaurant in the Museum of Contemporary Art Detroit, according to Crain's.

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Honest?John's bar in 2009

It strikes me as a milestone of sorts - a passing of the old Cass Corridor arts bohemia dive-bar days to the bustling Midtown slick and upscale new arrivals, epitomized by the new opened Selden Standard just a stone throw away.

I say legend for those not familiar, in that he grew up on the old mean streets of the Cass Corridor as a semi-orphan. His mother was a hooker working those streets. But rather than beat him down it made it tough, savvy and, yes, a bit abrasive. I first met him when he was a bartender at artists-hangout Cobb's Corner Bar [Willis and Cass - Currently Del Pryor Gallery]. He was funny and scary.

He opened the first Honest? John's on Jefferson by the Belle Isle bridge and drew attention from his charitable fundraiser stunts - polar bear swims off Belle Isle in winter, his Easter 'Bunny Roasts' [yep served rabbit], and annual 'Moon Shot' - patrons lined up, dropped drawers/ hiked skirts for bare-ass groups shot.

When he decided to move to his current location on Selden at Third ["I bought the bar my mom hooked out of"] we thought he was crazy, well crazier than usual.... There was nothing there but trouble there, so it seemed.

He succeeded and prospered, unintentionally becoming a pioneer in a now increasingly vibrant district. I'm happy for him and hope he made a killing on the sale. He deserves every penny.


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Honest?John's bar in January 2011

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Honest?John's bar [right] surrounded by ruins in 2005 pre-hipster Cass Corridor

Any memories?

The original Honest Johns on Field was open for decades and serviced the naval center across on Jefferson. Not sure but I think as a college kid we dealt with the original John, old crabby man. He kept the door locked and would peer out to determine if you were worthy of admitance. There was an old out of tune piano, one of our friends played great rag time piano'. He loved it.

Sometimes 15 or twenty of us would pile in, if our friend played, drinks on the the house. Never went when it moved. Sorry really like the old dive bars. John sold to Bernadette, who actually owned the house we own, sold it to our close friend in maybe 1975. Bar changed hands a few time.

The current John, did many charity events before relocating. I have an odd sense of humor, the bunny roast on Easter was one, or show your bare butt on Belle Isle another. I actually have pics of that.

No one blinks an eye when the same owners are involved with the Bronx bar and Cliff Bells. Honest Johns already serves $5 pints. Really not sure where the issue with this move is. Expect more changes in the future related to ownership transfers, there doesn't seem to be many young bar owners around town currently.

If there are major changes for the worse, that is yet to be seen. and content for a future thread.

Unless the Lowell's & Co. have sold the Bronx & Cliff Bells, you may have the wrong people in mind. This group of people has done much to maintain the area, and has roots there since the 80's. They catch the occasional flack, but have fixed up other buildings in the area, including the Blackstone, and even the Forest Arms [[geo-thermal, anyone?).

As for John's, I truly miss the Bell Isle location, as that was just another excuse to go to Belle Isle, and it really was a cozy dive, consisting of locals and the occasional tour bus. That the landlord tried to dramatically raise the rent, [[forcing John to leave and build his current location), and hasn't done shit to the building since then speaks to the habitual BS that is Detroit. I never quite got that same coziness at the new John's, but Steve behind the bar, and the food, keep us semi-regular. Hope the new owners have success there.

If I remember correctly, the juke box at the Field location was written up in national publications. It sold for a pretty penny and proceeds provided to John's favorite charities.

has service been interrupted? will the old staff remain?

Please, please don't say "craft cocktails" again.

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Originally Posted by preserve

Please, please don't say "craft cocktails" again.

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Thank You!

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Originally Posted by ronaldj

If I remember correctly, the juke box at the Field location was written up in national publications. It sold for a pretty penny and proceeds provided to John's favorite charities.

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It was, the best in the country, and john was happy to provide the number of the repairman

Never go to any restaurant that says 'honest' for the name.

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Originally Posted by Danny

Never go to any restaurant that says 'honest' for the name.

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Agreed, but it isn't 'Honest'. Its 'Honest?'.

If you know John, you know the question mark is crucial, and not just an intentional quirk.

The food at HJ's is unpretentious, but excellent. The kitchen is right there, and although behind a door, very close to the bar and easily visible. Its always clean, and I've never had a bad meal.

Piss on John. He's a prick. And I say that only because John would so expect. He built the Selden bar without debt, and owned it outright, or so he said. He designed the bar so he could roll behind it in a wheelchair, to better work during his retirement years. Barmaid Kelly was supposed to be his heir. Something happened, and there's a story I don't know. Regardless, I wish the old prick well, and hope he has a fine retirement. He has contributed a lot to our great city, in his own irritating way. I hope the new owners realize what they bought, and manage to allow the traditions to continue. What with the holidays be without his Christmas neon.

??? If you had a tab of say $50 at a bar you frequent but then you were suddenly barred from said bar, would you still go back and pay your tab?

Hope John is happy and doing well. Have not seen him in years.

Anyone remember Elmers? That was a real dive.

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Originally Posted by Django

??? If you had a tab of say $50 at a bar you frequent but then you were suddenly barred from said bar, would you still go back and pay your tab?

Hope John is happy and doing well. Have not seen him in years.

Anyone remember Elmers? That was a real dive.

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Paying your debts would be the honorable thing to do.

If you were barred from Honest John's, you certainly can't claim shock. John was a lovable but volatile prick. I witnessed tussles between him and his customers. Never between patrons.

Im proud to say I was one of the first to be barred. He barred a bunch of us when he opened. John and I shook hands on my last departure in the lot out back. Thats a story for another day.

Only been to John's twice at the old location. Yeah, he was funny and mean. Awesome jukebox. I recall seeing a mugshot of him as a young kid in the '60s-'70s. There's a story to it. I guess he was flying right as a college student, until the cops nabbed him as the wrong John Thompson wanted for a crime and treated him rather brutally over it. Supposedly, it was "no more Mr. Nice Guy" from him, and he dedicated himself to being a pain-in-d'-arse from that point on.
Please, give me the more accurate story behind that mugshot, if I am [[which I most likely am about this) way off the mark....

Screw John he is an ass

I walked into johns bar for a burger and a Coke one Sunday afternoon I talked with John for about 15 minutes when I first went in and listened him telling the same old stories..
I had been going to Honest Johns since it was over by Belle Isle then followed him to the new place on Seldan.

One Sunday afternoon I went in for a Burger and a Coke while I was eating an old black guy from the neighborhood sat down next to me we struck up an conversation he ended up being a really cool old man so we talked for awhile.

I was enjoying my my conversation with him so much I decided to have a beer with him after I was done with my pop and burger that’s when John refused to serve me anymore
I had not even had a drank a beer in there in months and never had more then two beer in there in my life and always tipped well as a matter of fact I tipped my bar maid 5 bucks before this happened..
from what I`m heard from all over that area he doesn't like the locals from the corridor in his bar and I got booted for being friendly with the local guy sitting next to me at the bar that Sunday..

The old guy had to count his change to make sure he had enough for his meal and beer but he paid for it and was a very polite guy ..
that may not be the reason I got barred from there but that is what most people other bar owners in the area think I’ve talked think in the area they assure me I didn't
do anything wrong John`s just like that ..
If you hang in the midtown area at any other bars just ask about Honest John I promise you you will hear a lot of bad stories and other patrons who have been barred for no reason..

I was bummed about this when it first happened I’ve never been refused a drink anywhere before I had listened to this Johns stories for years and always got along with him..

but he is known for booting long time customers ..Dave

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Originally Posted by G-DDT

Only been to John's twice at the old location. Yeah, he was funny and mean. Awesome jukebox. I recall seeing a mugshot of him as a young kid in the '60s-'70s. There's a story to it. I guess he was flying right as a college student, until the cops nabbed him as the wrong John Thompson wanted for a crime and treated him rather brutally over it. Supposedly, it was "no more Mr. Nice Guy" from him, and he dedicated himself to being a pain-in-d'-arse from that point on.
Please, give me the more accurate story behind that mugshot, if I am [[which I most likely am about this) way off the mark....

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Funny then, that on a couple of occasions I was sitting at the bar when a group of disruptive, loud, poorly dressed guys come in. I'm a little irritated at their noise, and wonder why John put up with them. Becomes clear they were DPD undercover after a while. No evidence of a grudge to me. He seemed to genuinely enjoy their company.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Funny then, that on a couple of occasions I was sitting at the bar when a group of disruptive, loud, poorly dressed guys come in. I'm a little irritated at their noise, and wonder why John put up with them. Becomes clear they were DPD undercover after a while. No evidence of a grudge to me. He seemed to genuinely enjoy their company.

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Really don't do the bar scene at all these days, but your comment reminded me when one night when we lived in GPP, we were doing awalk about, a bunch of off duty police got staggering drunk at the Rustic Cabin and buddies on duty engaged in banter as we watched. Frankly always wondered why their on duty buddies just didn't drive them home. Didn't see anything about that in the GP news.

I adore dive bars. Original Honest John on Jefferson but actualy Field fell in that categorie in later years. Been to a few blind Pigs in my life. So many gone. Tres fun to shoot shit with people at the bar. Odd things happen, great juck boxes, pool tables etc. Everything now seems so santitized. So boring.

Used to go to the old HJ's on Field quite often. I share Sumas' memory of the pre-John Thomas Honest John's [[Marine Bar) as well. That bar space was, in fact, so old that my grandfather had worked the place as a kid [[he lived on Field, and swept up, sold papers, and delivered beer for the many bars that used to be around there). My great uncle used to drink there a lot, after his shifts at Uniroyal.

The Field HJ's was a very mellow scene, and I spent many happy hours there listening to John's jukebox. My sister's friends even worked some shifts there. John himself could sure be loud and profane, but was generally cool, at least to me and my friends and family, and could definitely also be warm and a very interesting conversationalist in the right mood. I got rather frighteningly held up in the place once, but I would still stop in there in the afternoon or late in the evening.

When he moved the place though, he really seemed to change. Maybe it was the influence of running a bar in a place that held such difficult memories for him, or something, but I began to hear reports of seemingly unprovoked nastiness. I went in there exactly once. I came in on a slow late afternoon, sat down, ordered a beer. Saw John walking out of the back and just waved at him and got a sour look. When he came by he immediately said something insulting to me. I shook that off and tried to talk to him about how it was to be serving food after all those years of "no grill" and he told me, quite out of the blue, to "fuck off".

I tipped the barmaid, gulped down a couple more sips of my beer, and got up and left, never to return.

I still have an "Honnest Johns Bar & No Grill Inc. barf bag [[they used to have them on the bar at the location by Belle Isle.)


I was only at the new location in Cass Corridor once. When I lived there back in the early 1990's we used to go to The Old Miami and see how many roaches we could catch on the bar with a glass. I hear it's a hipster joint now, and all the roaches and Vietnam vets are gone.

When I was stacking rocks on Belle Isle John would walk his dogs everyday around the Isle. He stopped to meet me and handed me $100 bill and said "I like what your doing kid" At the time I was living out of my truck so that meant a lot. I had vaguely known him from Jefferson HJs.
When he moved to the Corridor I found his thing was being an asshole and wrote it on the bathroom wall. Somehow he knew it was me. John took me out back and politely told me that I had called him an asshole and was not welcome there anymore. I said to him "but John you are an asshole, thats your thing, your brand" We shook hands and I have never been back and I can see HJs from my back window. I left with a $50 tab. I will always love John but will probably never pay that tab.

These are some great stories and Lowell rightly marks it as a changing of the Detroit bar scene and general population at bars downtown.

My parents always went to the Eastside location and all its character. I only visited once and was disappointed to see the clean, sleek new spot on Selden loose some of that ground in charm on Field st. But it was still a mixed crowd on Selden of all ranges and simple, good food. John always had it out for me. He would be grumbling about something and then talk a little trash to me but never to my friend. It was entertaining, but he was tightly wound and ready to snap sometimes. I just laughed if off and we enjoyed ourselves. The waitresses now are less engaging but they still have 40ozs and solid food. Hope John is doing well and the new owners keep Sugar House and Wright's style away from HoJos.

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Originally Posted by 4V4DMD

These are some great stories and Lowell rightly marks it as a changing of the Detroit bar scene and general population at bars downtown.

My parents always went to the Eastside location and all its character. I only visited once and was disappointed to see the clean, sleek new spot on Selden loose some of that ground in charm on Field st. But it was still a mixed crowd on Selden of all ranges and simple, good food. John always had it out for me. He would be grumbling about something and then talk a little trash to me but never to my friend. It was entertaining, but he was tightly wound and ready to snap sometimes. I just laughed if off and we enjoyed ourselves. The waitresses now are less engaging but they still have 40ozs and solid food. Hope John is doing well and the new owners keep Sugar House and Wright's style away from HoJos.

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I felt the same way about John's new joint... but it worn in quite quickly and feels comfy -- even if all the surfaces are new. He brought the bar from Field St., and that really helps make it feel like home.

I also really hope the new folks keep the spirit alive. Would have to think they want to.

If the place is making good money the new owners would be ill advised to make any major changes. Restaurant patrons are a very fickle bunch.