Talking heads commentary on Detroit's BK impact

Bankruptcy related but I started a new thread since the existing BK one is more about the logistics of the filing.

I keep reading comments how Detroit will get worse before it gets better, one of the big impacts will be a hit to the perception of Detroit, etc.

Is it just me or does it seems like these people have never been here:

1. Perception getting worse? Honestly, is that even possible?
2. The residents will suffer and services will get worse, really? We have transit that is horrific and likely can't get worse, streetlights can't really get worse, PD response and closure rates are non-existent, etc.

I'm curious if these commentators have actually asked residents about the services and what could truly get worse as far as service delivery and perception. Are PD response times going to go from 58 minutes to an hour? Are buses going to go from being an hour late to 2 hours late.

I understand the discussion but damn media, have some real perspective of the actual services before you start making proclamations.

End rant.

Well, I kinda like BK, but I'd rather have Taco Bell. BK is definitely better than McD's, so I can see where Detroit would definitely have an impact on their sales. ;)

Dammit!!!!!

My pet peeve is the national media blaming most of the decline on the auto industry, and worse, on recent auto industry troubles. Yes, the industry had a large impact with the inevitable loss of market share that started around 1972. They totally ignore how much of the industry moved to the suburbs and the fact that suburban population has basically remained stable while Detroit declined due to a host of other reasons we are all familiar with.

I can see a number of ways that things can get worse for residents. Higher fees/costs for city services, fewer/less experienced workers providing those services, more services discontinued, etc. If the city's been living on credit and that gets cut-off, lots of other things are going to get cut-off with it.

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Originally Posted by 401don

My pet peeve is the national media blaming most of the decline on the auto industry, and worse, on recent auto industry troubles. Yes, the industry had a large impact with the inevitable loss of market share that started around 1972. They totally ignore how much of the industry moved to the suburbs and the fact that suburban population has basically remained stable while Detroit declined due to a host of other reasons we are all familiar with.

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This. Also a lot of blather about how the 2008 housing bubble burst and people are trapped in underwater houses.

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Originally Posted by jt1

these people have never been here:

1. Perception getting worse? Honestly, is that even possible?
2. The residents will suffer and services will get worse, really? We have transit that is horrific and likely can't get worse, streetlights can't really get worse, PD response and closure rates are non-existent, etc.

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I agree with you about #2, living here. It wouldn't matter if Detroit wasn't bankrupt, the mismanagement and corruption alone makes service delivery nearly non-existent at this point.

Number one though, I think we need to step out of our normal living-nightmare Metro-Detroit bubble.

As for perception, Detroit has long been the poster child for crime, and then for blight. Detroit is blighted and crime-ridden on an unprecedented scale. However most Americans [[and American entities) seem to understand, at least those with an urban-bend, that American cities will have crime and blight.

However no major American city has filed for Chapter 9. I think this uncertainty and this unknown could scare away the potential investment and residents that Detroit needs to become functioning. We don't need Detroit boosters, we don't need Detroit t-shirts or marketing campaigns, we need more people IN DETROIT.

I think if you're searching for a place to live, on a national scale, or a place to relocate your corporation, a bankrupt Detroit sounds infinitely more horrible than a regular Detroit.

So, uh, I'm not super hopeful.

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Originally Posted by poobert

I think if you're searching for a place to live, on a national scale, or a place to relocate your corporation, a bankrupt Detroit sounds infinitely more horrible than a regular Detroit.

So, uh, I'm not super hopeful.

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IDK, I tend to think it's the opposite. Totally anecdotal, but I was just out of town and talking with non-locals that come here often. BK Detroit seems to mean, to a lot of folks .. that the "grown -ups" are in charge now. long term issues are going to be addressed and things will improve. I think a lot expect some "darkest before dawn" moments, but it seems most expect a "dawn".

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Originally Posted by bailey

IDK, I tend to think it's the opposite. Totally anecdotal, but I was just out of town and talking with non-locals that come here often. BK Detroit seems to mean, to a lot of folks .. that the "grown -ups" are in charge now. long term issues are going to be addressed and things will improve.

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Yup. That's how I see it, too.

Most of the media talking heads could better be described as bobble heads. I long ago stopped watching the Sunday network talk shows for that reason. I have no doubt that these self appointed experts have their heads up their you know whats on the issue of the bankruptcy, as they do on just about every other issue.

As usual, we can look to Dan Gilbert for a ray of sunshine http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...hp_ref=detroit "Detroit will thrive again as well and sooner than most think."

From a mid-sixties National Observer article:

"The evidence, both statistical and visual, is everywhere. Retail sales are up dramatically. Earnings are higher. Unemployment is lower. People are putting new aluminum sidings on their homes, new carpets on the floor, new cars in the garage.

"Some people are forsaking the suburbs and returning to the city. Physically Detroit has acquired freshness and vitality. Acres of slums have been razed, and steel and glass apartments, angular and lonely in the vacated landscape, have sprung up in their place. In the central business district, hard by the Detroit River, severely rectangular skyscrapers—none more than 5 years old—jostle uncomfortably with the gilded behemoths of another age.

"Accustomed to years of adversity, to decades of drabness and civil immobility, Detroiters are naturally exhilarated. They note with particular pride that Detroit has been removed from the Federal Bureau of Employment Security's classification of 'an area with substantial and persistent unemployment.'

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Originally Posted by bailey

IDK, I tend to think it's the opposite. Totally anecdotal, but I was just out of town and talking with non-locals that come here often. BK Detroit seems to mean, to a lot of folks .. that the "grown -ups" are in charge now. long term issues are going to be addressed and things will improve. I think a lot expect some "darkest before dawn" moments, but it seems most expect a "dawn".

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I certainly agree, but only time will tell. I think most large investors will hold off on being bullish on Detroit until the dust settles. No one knows what the other side of BK will look like for Detroit.

Only time will tell...

When it comes to commentary, I don't listen much to either the far left or the far right. Neither side seems to let facts get in the way of a good op-ed piece. But I've found that the more removed from the Detroit area, the more rational the discussion. Now I know this is before the BK, but there was a discussion on NPR concerning the two Detroits that took great pains to seperate the developing Detroit [[highlighting both the downtown and mid town areas) from the imploding Detroit [[that is, the municipal government), and noted that the two stories, although somewhat intertwined, should be looked at individually.

Depending upon how it is resolved, the bankruptcy may well end up being a positive thing for investment, but until it is resolved, it adds a level of uncertainty that could make investors wary, particularly if they thought that the resolution would involve unpredictably higher taxes--they already know there aren't services, so I doubt they are worried about that.

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Originally Posted by jt1

Dammit!!!!!

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You let yourself wide open for that post jt1 [[Dnerd's post).

Where would you invest $200k in Detroit right now?

Who gives a fuck about the talking heads anyway? They don't think, they just read the dumbed-down sensationalized dreck that is fed to them on the tele-prompter. Our image couldn't get any worse that it already is, so fuck it.

This process is all about finally getting our governmental affairs in order, so I could care less what some ratings-seeker has to say about it.

Unless you can speak intelligently about municipal finance, bankruptcy law, urban planning, or some other related subject, I don't give a fuck what you think, nor should anybody else.

Speaking of talking heads [[mostly ears, this case), our resident liar and major league asshole offered up his latest schmaltzy shitbomb:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2013307200055

I don't know who this "we" is he is referring to, but I'm guessing Franklin isn't dealing with the problems we are in Detroit. Last I checked, Franklin isn't bankrupt or dealing with all those problems he's including himself in.

First thread wasn't enough?

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...t-as-the-topic

Every time I see the title of this thread, I keep expecting to see some comment from David Byrne

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Originally Posted by rb336

Every time I see the title of this thread, I keep expecting to see some comment from David Byrne

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He did, years ago, very prescient: "same as it ever was".

Caught a snippet of Orr claiming again that there's "no money" to pay the $18 billion in liabilities. That will be news to the people holding water and sewer bonds who are going to get back every cent they expected.

Ready to have your day ruined?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/pure-detroit-video-steven-crowder_n_3624191.html

YOU'RE WELCOME.

Conservativism in this country further proves itself unwilling to have honest, intelligent input on anything. Back to the glossalia and assault rifles it is.