Pay cuts, school closures, steeper student losses on way, DPS plan shows

The 2014-15 school year could bring an additional [the first 10% occurring in 2011] 10% wage reduction for DPS employees. And while no schools will close this year, 24 schools will be shuttered beginning in 2015-16.

Among the challenges DPS officials face: The budget they crafted earlier this year included $14.8 million in expected revenues from a county-wide school millage that voters turned down Aug. 5. District spokeswoman Michelle Zdrodowski said in an e-mail that the newplan offers the most conservative projections and estimates available.

From article:

http://www.freep.com/article/2014081...budget-deficit

That's what DPS folks get if Detroiters reject the millage. Well it's more black kids heading off suburban schools when they take the D-DOT and SMART buses instead of the school bus.

Does this have anything to do with Snyder's education cuts?

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Does this have anything to do with Snyder's education cuts?

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More to do with years of DPS waste, fraud, abuse, as well as the rush away from DPS from most people who can find a way to get a better education for their kids.

Except for vested interests... who cares about DPS. I only care about education for our kids. And don't care who does it, or whether they profit or not.

Resutls, baby. DPS has not proven they can do it. And some charters are finding a way, while others are useless. But don't stop the progress just because the average charter isn't better than the average public. [[Because that means some charter are better than average, too. And they might provide new approaches forbidden by the rule-bound DPS.)

what's the matter? That pandering, flimflam, huckstering slogan ain't working no more?

It's for the kid's...


There was a time when I believed.

Additionally this goes back to and thru the Granholm administration et al.

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Does this have anything to do with Snyder's education cuts?

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

More to do with years of DPS waste, fraud, abuse, as well as the rush away from DPS from most people who can find a way to get a better education for their kids.

Except for vested interests... who cares about DPS. I only care about education for our kids. And don't care who does it, or whether they profit or not.

Resutls, baby. DPS has not proven they can do it. And some charters are finding a way, while others are useless. But don't stop the progress just because the average charter isn't better than the average public. [[Because that means some charter are better than average, too. And they might provide new approaches forbidden by the rule-bound DPS.)

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I think this has been true for the last 14 years the state has run DPS. This is the last step before DPS is fully dissolved, charters are only left, and then poor kids in Detroit will get Cranbrook level education. *sarcasm*

We're seeing the results of a failing experiment that tried combining public education and the "free market". While the idea that charter schools and Schools of Choice would improve the education of individual students is still debatable. What is not debatable is that that this experiment has absolutely gutted and destroyed many major urban school districts! Charter schools have siphoned funding from schools when they were already struggling and left these districts unable to deal with the legacy costs of decades of educating our children. This system has also resulted in a situation where districts such as DPS are left to deal with the most difficult and disengaged students while others leave to suburban districts or charters. IMO DPS is doomed, and even though the guys in Lansing are responsible there's not a chance they'll ever admit it.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

We're seeing the results of a failing experiment that tried combining public education and the "free market". While the idea that charter schools and Schools of Choice would improve the education of individual students is still debatable. What is not debatable is that that this experiment has absolutely gutted and destroyed many major urban school districts! Charter schools have siphoned funding from schools when they were already struggling and left these districts unable to deal with the legacy costs of decades of educating our children. This system has also resulted in a situation where districts such as DPS are left to deal with the most difficult and disengaged students while others leave to suburban districts or charters. IMO DPS is doomed, and even though the guys in Lansing are responsible there's not a chance they'll ever admit it.

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I couldn't have said that^ better. Similar arguments could be made for the privatization of prisons [some might say they are the same as they deal with mandatory state laws]. They all work nicely at first and then a bait and switch factor sets in. Investors want more profit and quality declines.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

I couldn't have said that^ better. Similar arguments could be made for the privatization of prisons [some might say they are the same as they deal with mandatory state laws]. They all work nicely at first and then a bait and switch factor sets in. Investors want more profit and quality declines.

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You can blame this if you want, but it's sort of akin to blaming the cleanup crew that comes to take away the rubble after the house has burned down.

In the 1980s I had occasion to visit three public schools and also one of the "area offices" if you remember that whole setup. The schools were a disgrace; they were absolutely falling apart. Meanwhile the area office was as nice as any corporate headquarters you'd care to visit.

DPS failed because the people responsible for it were running it for their own benefit and convenience; the children had very little, if anything, to do with it. The charters at least give some families hope that they can stay in Detroit and get their kids a decent education. Granted, that's also a crapshoot, but it's hard to argue it's any more of a crapshoot than staying with DPS.

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Originally Posted by professorscott

You can blame this if you want, but it's sort of akin to blaming the cleanup crew that comes to take away the rubble after the house has burned down.

In the 1980s I had occasion to visit three public schools and also one of the "area offices" if you remember that whole setup. The schools were a disgrace; they were absolutely falling apart. Meanwhile the area office was as nice as any corporate headquarters you'd care to visit.

DPS failed because the people responsible for it were running it for their own benefit and convenience; the children had very little, if anything, to do with it. The charters at least give some families hope that they can stay in Detroit and get their kids a decent education. Granted, that's also a crapshoot, but it's hard to argue it's any more of a crapshoot than staying with DPS.

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I'm really tired of the self-serving drumbeat against charters.

I've seen little evidence that charters did anything to harm public education. They took away students, and they took away money. Fair enough. DPS was not educating them, to be sure. And some Charters do an excellent job, and others not so much.

But if you don't think the mere existence of Charters has improve public education, then you probably think DPS was doing just fine and only needed more money.

A world without Charters is a great goal. But monopoly public education in Detroit with ever-increasing funding sure wasn't doing the job.

The fight against charters is a fight for ever-increasing dollars spent on public education. I want teachers to be well-paid -- but we don't need the bloat of DPS administration of the past to educate kids.

The idea that Charters are destroying education in America is pure fantasy. Monopoly public education in urban cities were doing that job well-enough before Charters.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I'm really tired of the self-serving drumbeat against charters.

I've seen little evidence that charters did anything to harm public education. They took away students, and they took away money. Fair enough. DPS was not educating them, to be sure. And some Charters do an excellent job, and others not so much.

But if you don't think the mere existence of Charters has improve public education, then you probably think DPS was doing just fine and only needed more money.

A world without Charters is a great goal. But monopoly public education in Detroit with ever-increasing funding sure wasn't doing the job.

The fight against charters is a fight for ever-increasing dollars spent on public education. I want teachers to be well-paid -- but we don't need the bloat of DPS administration of the past to educate kids.

The idea that Charters are destroying education in America is pure fantasy. Monopoly public education in urban cities were doing that job well-enough before Charters.

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Charters are just shifting the money to people connected with politicians while doing a worse job educating students. Stop pretending the free market can do anything right. Charter schools are as big, if not a bigger, failure that we need to stop pretending has done anything except siphon dollars into politically connected companies. $1B across the state for schools is A LOT of money. Money is a big part of the issue, since money allows for you to have manageable classroom size, cutting edge resources to assist in the engagement of students, salaries for people who have a job I doubt much of anyone wants, and that's just the start. Public education educated YOU, got YOU where you are today, so why can't we do the same now? Because free market? Because we don't have the balls to say privatizing everything doesn't work, to say that we need to have a system that holds public services accountable rather than systematically dissemble them for the benefit of those who can operate outside of the systems?

If/when DPS officially dissolves, then what? "Celebrations"? Where's the "win" in this for city residents?

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I'm really tired of the self-serving drumbeat against charters.

A world without Charters is a great goal. But monopoly public education in Detroit with ever-increasing funding sure wasn't doing the job.

The fight against charters is a fight for ever-increasing dollars spent on public education. I want teachers to be well-paid -- but we don't need the bloat of DPS administration of the past to educate kids.

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Excellent point. Where do you suggest we implement for profit charters next? The Pointes? Birmingham / Bloomfield?
The monopolies of those school systems must also be robbing the children of prescious dollars that could be used to finance their education. Get rid of that bloated legacy cost and focus the money where it belongs and improve the districts. Those kids deserve the opportunity to get a good education too, don't they?

It ain't gonna be over until the MEA/NEA are beaten to a pulp.

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

If/when DPS officially dissolves, then what? "Celebrations"? Where's the "win" in this for city residents?

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The 'win' for students. Their education is the only thing that matters. Perhaps a new district could raise from the ashes and do a better job.

Giving more and more money down to traditional districts did nothing to improve Detroit education. Charters, for all their warts, sometimes provide better education. Sometimes worse. But the important thing is that it changes.

The worse schools will lose support. And crucially, DPS [[and districts) start innovating and have no doubt improved since the introduction of charters.

Or we can just close the charters and give the money back to the districts. Why we think that would work is completely lost on me. Wishful thinking. Money is not the problem.

What's really happening here is indeed a fight for control of the schools. Who control the schools. Professional administrators [[public and private)? Or teacher's unions? Take class size. Sure, smaller is generally better. But if someone has a new idea that certain classes should be very large, and others very small, can they implement it in unionized public schools? No Way. We know the solution. Give us more money and all will be well -- and kill those Charters that are taking our money too. We were doing so well before you tried to fix things. Go away with any new ideas, but please leave more cash. And stop telling us that there are new ideas that should be tried. Everything is fine. We'll control the schools and the money.

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Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Excellent point. Where do you suggest we implement for profit charters next? The Pointes? Birmingham / Bloomfield?
The monopolies of those school systems must also be robbing the children of prescious dollars that could be used to finance their education. Get rid of that bloated legacy cost and focus the money where it belongs and improve the districts. Those kids deserve the opportunity to get a good education too, don't they?

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Every kid does. The points spend less per pupil than Detroit [[about $13k GP vs. $14k DET in 2011-12) If GP parents decide to leave public and go charter, I'm fine with that. All that matters is students. All this war over control and money isn't helping.

DPS should dissolve tomorrow, as its dissolution is inevitable.

That said, its dissolution has been rapidly hastened by the siphoning off of students and dollars to charters, most of which are no better than low performing Detroit Public Schools.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Every kid does. The points spend less per pupil than Detroit [[about $13k GP vs. $14k DET in 2011-12)

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The Pointe schools may spend less, but we can be pretty certain that the Pointe kids get more spent on their educations.

I think the DPS should not exist because of its proven record of complete incapability, but let's not pretend that Detroit kids get the same support as kids elsewhere.

Also, in answer to whoever asked what the city residents will get out of the elimination of the DPS, let me agree with what professorscott said:

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The charters at least give some families hope that they can stay in Detroit and get their kids a decent education. Granted, that's also a crapshoot, but it's hard to argue it's any more of a crapshoot than staying with DPS.

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Michigan doesn't do enough to hold the charters accountable, and there are a number of truly awful charters that haven't been closed, but at least it is possible to find one that is functional. As long as DPS exists, some people will use it as a default option. That is not a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

What's really happening here is indeed a fight for control of the schools. Who control the schools. Professional administrators [[public and private)? Or teacher's unions? Take class size. Sure, smaller is generally better. But if someone has a new idea that certain classes should be very large, and others very small, can they implement it in unionized public schools? No Way. We know the solution. Give us more money and all will be well -- and kill those Charters that are taking our money too. We were doing so well before you tried to fix things. Go away with any new ideas, but please leave more cash. And stop telling us that there are new ideas that should be tried. Everything is fine. We'll control the schools and the money.

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Well said Mr Mouch, well said. I rarely see the truth stated so well here.

Detnews editorial: Should Duggan take control of DPS including charter schools?

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...oit-s-schools-

Yep... charters vary widely in quality and curriculum. You need research each on before you make a choice in sending your child there.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

Michigan doesn't do enough to hold the charters accountable, and there are a number of truly awful charters that haven't been closed, but at least it is possible to find one that is functional. As long as DPS exists, some people will use it as a default option. That is not a good thing.

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Another related factor in this is the quasi-charter 'contraption' known as EAA [[Educational Achievement Authority) schools where DPS low performing were so converted. Schools our millages paid for [[Think the rebuilt Mumford HS, etc.)

What's up with that? How are they preforming academically? How's the chancellorship [[Covington) and what not going? Funding sources? Outcomes?

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Originally Posted by maverick1

I think this has been true for the last 14 years the state has run DPS. This is the last step before DPS is fully dissolved, charters are only left, and then poor kids in Detroit will get Cranbrook level education. *sarcasm*

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pro-charter absolutism sucks, especially when poor students are the main "guinea pigs". there has yet to be any empirical evidence that points to their much vaunted vast superiority. It's just not out there. Why are all the pro-charter folks against any standardized regulation?

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

If/when DPS officially dissolves, then what? "Celebrations"? Where's the "win" in this for city residents?

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It be a total loss for poor Detroit kids. A Detroit without its Detroit Public Schools is like having City of Inkster without Inkster Public Schools. And it happened.


This will be the result for poor welfare food stamp eating Detroit kids will go for education:

1. Detroit Charter Schools Buildings will be in place for them. However most charter schools are very strict; sometimes forcing their students to learn fast and do the homework like clockwork robotic automatons until their reach college level educational requirements. Refusal to follow such rules will result of exclusion from that institution, causing the parent to go to any administrator to appeal their case. If the student[[s) reach college, their minds will burn out before they can drop-out in the first year.

2. Some Detroit Charter Schools Buildings have failed earlier times. Causing parents to send their child to other charter schools Detroit or suburbs or via school of choice to some suburban schools. [[ In which white middle class folks don't want.)

3. Most suburb schools apply the code of conduct zero tolerance rules that certain charter schools have. This would put pressure of the student[[s) and parent[[s).

This whole public educational system in Great State of 'Mich-ississippi' is a mess of monopoly, treating public schools as a corporation in order to receive government funding. It's has gone too far and kids are losing out and dropping out in the process.

Teachers, quite whining about your pensions and teach my child.

Administrators, quite playing politics and fix our school campuses.

Kids, summer playtime is over. Go to school or else!