How can forward thinking decision makers like her be attracted to Detroit?

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New York planning chief offers tips

Imagine sidewalk cafes everywhere. Add trees and greenery at parking lots. Mix in seating in both the sun and shade along the waterfront.

Those are just some of the changes Amanda Burden has made since 2002 as chief of New York City’s planning commission, overseeing vast redevelopment from the Lower East Side in Manhattan to the Brooklyn waterfront to revitalizing 125th Street in Harlem — home to the famed Apollo Theater.

“We want people not just to come to New York, but to stay in New York,� Burden told an audience at the University of Toronto on Friday that included politicians, planning students and community activists.

The way to ensure people stay in New York, Burden said, is providing affordable housing, local retail, jobs throughout the city and public spaces like playgrounds for kids.

“We direct development of the city by shaping its neighbourhoods, its business districts, its waterfront and its industrial areas,� she said. “New Yorkers judge us by how a street feels.�

That’s why Burden has focused attention on making her city of nearly 8.4 million more pedestrian friendly, less gritty and more economically vibrant. Much of her success, she credits to strong political leadership in Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has given her the freedom to do what she believes is right.

Add in her obsessive tenacity and a passion for her city, Burden has brought dramatic changes in eight years. “My goal is to have New York City grow but not change,� she said, referring to the need to preserve single-family neighbourhoods in Queens dependent on the automobile while at the same time encouraging development along transit routes.

“Zoning is a blunt instrument. It really pushes the envelope and the framework,� Burden said. “And it’s also my role to encourage architectural innovation.�

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More here: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...ef-offers-tips

The bolded part stood out to me because I think that is at the core of why Detroit has become such an unattractive place. Every density map I have seen of the city suggests that the most hollowed out sections of the city are those that were once densely populated with residents who relied on public transit.

The least abandoned areas in Detroit today are those that have always been largely automobile dependent. Detroit needs to get back to its roots as a mixed use city if it wants to save itself, and scrap that bullshit about shutting down sections of the city.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

The least abandoned areas in Detroit today are those that have always been largely automobile dependent. Detroit needs to get back to its roots as a mixed use city if it wants to save itself, and scrap that bullshit about shutting down sections of the city.

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Hear, hear, iheart. That's why they're in such a scramble to seal the deal on the bulldozer plan; it MUST be accomplished before the M1 rail provides the "threat of a good example."

putting the cart before the horse - none of that matters if people won't visit the city more or less move in

clean up city government and schools first, decouple the police department from the Mayor's office so that there can be adequate oversight of both, get the city's finance records cleaned up so it can be seen what's really been going on - then and only then might there be room for such luxuries.

Until then major community projects remain the purview of private or private/public organizations because, quite frankly, they do it better [[Riverfront, Campus Martius, etc.)

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Originally Posted by lilpup

putting the cart before the horse - none of that matters if people won't visit the city more or less move in

clean up city government and schools first, decouple the police department from the Mayor's office so that there can be adequate oversight of both, get the city's finance records cleaned up so it can be seen what's really been going on - then and only then might there be room for such luxuries.

Until then major community projects remain the purview of private or private/public organizations because, quite frankly, they do it better [[Riverfront, Campus Martius, etc.)

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Haha. Yes. Perfect. We spent more than 50 years ensuring that the city would be the repository of the metropolitan area's collective problems. Now that we've ensured the city is a place populated mostly by the poor, led by a corrupt kleptocracy that has been happy to pursue a suicidal strategy of high taxes, onerous regulations and zero economic growth, this is the time ...

that is, this is the time to demand that Detroiters clean it all up themselves! We can't try to invest in the city until they clean up all those social problems the capital flight and lack of a regional plan has left them saddled with.

Which means, of course, the we'll be perfectly happy to ride into the city, once they've addressed high taxes, arcane regulations, crime, schools, dilapidated buildings, lack of policing, and various other ills.

In other words, we'll be happy to ride in, when the city fixes its problems, on a fleet of flying pigs. Nice.

Have you ever wondered why capital treats the city the way it does i.e. goes to foundation run places directly instead of through the city government? Have you ever stopped to think [[I doubt it) how much 'outside' capital is propping up so many of the worthwhile things left in the city?

You specify "high taxes, arcane regulations, crime, schools., dilapidated buildings, lack of policing." Guess what - those are ALL city governance issues. Perhaps you would like the state to just take over the entire city like they have the schools? Or would you bitch about that, too, while at the same time decrying the lack of assistance? State taxpayers have poured myriad funds into Detroit without substantial oversight and have seen minimal results. Do you expect everyone to just allow the city government to remain an uncontrolled money pit? When the government gets its act cleaned up - either on its own or via outside assistance or control - the rest will follow much more readily.

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Originally Posted by lilpup

You specify "high taxes, arcane regulations, crime, schools., dilapidated buildings, lack of policing." Guess what - those are ALL city governance issues. Perhaps you would like the state to just take over the entire city like they have the schools? Or would you bitch about that, too, while at the same time decrying the lack of assistance? State taxpayers have poured myriad funds into Detroit without substantial oversight and have seen minimal results. Do you expect everyone to just allow the city government to remain an uncontrolled money pit? When the government gets its act cleaned up - either on its own or via outside assistance or control - the rest will follow much more readily.

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Haha. Oh, yes. And all this allows people such as yourself to smugly say that they're all for regionalism; just as soon as Detroit gets it together without their help. Which is a recipe for no regionalism ever. How comfortable this must make you feel.

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Haha. Oh, yes. And all this allows people such as yourself to smugly say that they're all for regionalism; just as soon as Detroit gets it together without their help. Which is a recipe for no regionalism ever. How comfortable this must make you feel.

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Are you proud of all the blatant corruption uncovered in city government and the school administration? Get off your high horse and recognize that it's just a nag. You whine about not getting help, fight help when it's provided, and then bitch about needing it. The city has been mismanaged for far, far too long. Accept it and move on because that's the ONLY way anything even approaching regionalism is going to occur.

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Originally Posted by lilpup

Are you proud of all the blatant corruption uncovered in city government and the school administration? Get off your high horse and recognize that it's just a nag. You whine about not getting help, fight help when it's provided, and then bitch about needing it. The city has been mismanaged for far, far too long. Accept it and move on because that's the ONLY way anything even approaching regionalism is going to occur.

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AMEN!!!!

When you disempower law enforcement and allow crime to prevail and drive out the majority of the highest tax paying citizens, you've made your own bed and have no right to expect, let alone demand, support of the very people you've driven out.

Unfortunately, it's too bad that no matter how much the obvious gets repeated, it will never sink in. [[It's already been thirty years and counting, and they still refuse to get it).

I wonder why Amanda Burden doesn't just blame all of New York City's problems on the suburbs - it seems to have worked out nicely for Detroit.

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Originally Posted by lilpup

Are you proud of all the blatant corruption uncovered in city government and the school administration? Get off your high horse and recognize that it's just a nag. You whine about not getting help, fight help when it's provided, and then bitch about needing it. The city has been mismanaged for far, far too long. Accept it and move on because that's the ONLY way anything even approaching regionalism is going to occur.

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Haha. Oh, yeah, right. I'm real proud of Detroit's kleptrocracy. Whatever.

Yes, the city has been mismanaged. That's because it's a place where people are so poor and so poorly educated, they're easy prey for a class of political hucksters to gain power. But, of course, they're just one side of the coin. The other side are the suburban politicians who are only too happy to have Detroit mismanaged. Less competition for them.

Sound far-fetched? Take it from somebody who works downtown. I used to see all those Detroit politicians you love to hate coming out of Sweet Georgia Brown down here. Guess who they were having lunch with? Your hero suburban leaders. And everybody was smiling. That's the idea, lilpup: Detroit isn't supposed to have low taxes, good leadership or sensible regulations. That would provide competition for the suburban governments. So everybody's happy this way: Detroit's political class gets to peddle its corruption, suburban leaders get the business the city won't, and suburban residents are free to act like they have nothing to do with the problem.

The REAL problem is we have zero REGIONAL vision for the REGION. A region of dozens of fragmented city governments ensures that this will go on and on and nobody will have an interest in a working city, desirable suburbs and productive farmland all working in concert. Instead we'll just a bunch of hothead gasbags warming up the blogosphere.

So go ahead and make your smug declarations. That's why we have the Detroit we do, so you can enjoy blaming the city for being the ongoing disaster it's supposed to be. Kind of comical to watch somebody who'd never lift a finger to help get all red-faced and angry and lob insults. As if you cared ... :rolleyes:

Speaking of high horses ... :p

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Originally Posted by Retroit

I wonder why Amanda Burden doesn't just blame all of New York City's problems on the suburbs - it seems to have worked out nicely for Detroit.

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Honestly, it's never wise to compare Apples to Watermelons.

Detroitnerd, if the suburbs were so complicit in the corruption of Detroit, why would you want to impose an even greater subjugation upon Detroit by imposition of a Regional Authority?

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Originally Posted by lilpup

Have you ever wondered why capital treats the city the way it does i.e. goes to foundation run places directly instead of through the city government? Have you ever stopped to think [[I doubt it) how much 'outside' capital is propping up so many of the worthwhile things left in the city?

You specify "high taxes, arcane regulations, crime, schools., dilapidated buildings, lack of policing." Guess what - those are ALL city governance issues. Perhaps you would like the state to just take over the entire city like they have the schools? Or would you bitch about that, too, while at the same time decrying the lack of assistance? State taxpayers have poured myriad funds into Detroit without substantial oversight and have seen minimal results. Do you expect everyone to just allow the city government to remain an uncontrolled money pit? When the government gets its act cleaned up - either on its own or via outside assistance or control - the rest will follow much more readily.

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You said it, Girl!

Detroit will never get it going again if the suburbs dont pitch in. New York works because the city incorporated the five boroughs a long time ago and spent a hell of a lot on transit. What makes New York tick is the human contact. Sure a long subway ride home can be depressing, but it's also an opportunity to read a book, and ogle a nice pair of legs. People are less prone to make unfounded judgments about race or other differences if there is CONTACT at some level.

Start diggin tunnels now Detroit, I'm serious!

If anyone insists on comparing Detroit to New York it should be with the New York of the early/mid-1970s when NYC was headed for receivership and had to get Federal loan guarantees to survive. That's the NYC period that most closely mirrors Detroit's present situation.

[quote=Detroitnerd;133969]The REAL problem is we have zero REGIONAL vision for the REGION. A region of dozens of fragmented city governments ensures that this will go on and on and nobody will have an interest in a working city, desirable suburbs and productive farmland all working in concert. Instead we'll just a bunch of hothead gasbags warming up the blogosphere.


Haha, such ignorance. Many times when other entities have tried to help Detroit they have been soundly rebuffed.

And don't try the same old tired line that "outsiders" only want to help so they can take over. I've been hearing that crap since the Coleman Young days.

Several years ago when paving magnate Bob Thompson offered many many millions of dollars to fund new schools he was quite rudely told to take his money and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

Sadly, you won't see any significant outside help until the corruption and governmental theft is eliminated. If you had a neighbor who you knew was a raging alcoholic would you keep giving him money so he could buy booze? If you tried to get him help and he continually told you to buzz off, would you continue to try to help him?

Quit the shrill cries of "everyone's picking on Detroit" and open your eyes to the fact that Detroit must want to help itself and accept others help if it is going to fix its problems.

Detroit is littered with visionaries. Visionaries aren't the problem. Its productive leadership thats amiss.

Its a lot about what kind of vision rather than Vision per se. If you check all the boxes next to a survey of visionary projects for Detroit in the past 70 years, few of them include citizen intersts vs corporate demands. All the projects with massive scale like highways, elimination of transit opportunities, segregated community-building practices, office buiding with narrow interests gone bad like Ren-Cen and Comerica bldg are the result of a wrong, outdated and unbalanced kind of VISION. What you need to look for is a people oriented vision. Citizens committees are better to say no to some types of investments that degenerate rather than enthuse about any kind of investment. It's easy to despair when you look at the state of things, but there seems to be more community based orgs getting involved on the planning level and that is important now if the city is to have a real turnaround. A moratorium on new projects may seem detrimental in the short run but if a strong plan comes up, the world will look at Detroit and invest according to new sensible rules.