More of the same on moguls buying up downtowns.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01...mbling-cities/
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More of the same on moguls buying up downtowns.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01...mbling-cities/
Interesting history of other rich guys trying to invent community. A little rough on Gilbert at the start.
Quote:
Dan Gilbert made his $4.2 billion fortune in one of America’s most reviled industries: Mortgage lending. In 2008, as bankruptcies and foreclosures surged across the United States, Mr. Gilbert’s company, Quicken Loans, actually saw its profitability reach peak levels.
He also owns the Cleveland Cavaliers, and during the 2011 NBA lockout was among a small group of hardliners reportedly prolonging the dispute by opposing a more generous revenue-sharing deal with players.
No one is to make fum or make bad criticism of Dan Gilbert's Downtown [[ Gilberttown's) revival. Dan Gilbert can to Detroit with a vision and a plan. Instead to putting a building that would revival the World Trade Towers in N.Y.C. He will buy up every last building, fix em up and rent to his yuppie friends. Gilbert did the excellent job bringing regionalism back to Detroit. Now I can see people walking around instead of looking at a ghost town.
I don't much care how Mr. Gilbert made his money or about his sports team. I do care that he has personally, and through things he owns or controls, invested countless millions of dollars into downtown Detroit, starting at a time when only very few other people were really doing much of anything positive for the City with their own money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
Without people like Mr. Gilbert, the Ilitch family, Mr. Penske and a small number of others, downtown would be quite bleak compared to what it actually is today. And a resurging downtown-midtown corridor will spread, slowly, into the neighborhoods to the east and west, regerminating Detroit as, eventually, a real urban city again.
I don't know anyone who thinks that there is ANY "silver bullet" when it comes to getting Detroit to turn around. And so I really don't see the usefulness of articles such as this. There are many pieces to the puzzle, and Dan Gilbert is a major piece. Certain things just have to happen before others - and a resurgent downtown [[and I guess to a lesser extent midtown) is one of those. Until downtown is thriving, there really isn't much reason for people to reinvest in the neighborhoods.
I agree with both ProfessorScott and 'WestCoast: Downtowns are the hearts of big cities. What would NYC be without Manhattan? Or a better question, would folks live in the other boroughs [[why?) if there was no Manhattan with its commerce, entertainment, etc. The other boroughs exist because of Manhattan, not Manhattan exists because of the other boroughs.
Saddly, once again the neighborhoods get left out of the equation.
without a healthy, vibrant, and growing downtown...there is no reason for neighborhoods. it's triage care. you don't worry about setting the broken leg until you've taken care of the giant gunshot wound to the chest.Quote:
Originally Posted by sumas
I certainly sympathize with how you feel, a lot of press, attention, and dollars are concentrated on where people work, not where they live.Quote:
Originally Posted by sumas
I do feel that Duggan and Snyder have done a lot to invest in the neighborhoods, but it's going to take a lot more to get things in the right direction.
The good news is that a downtown and midtown revitalization will create many jobs, some of which will be for Detroit residents.
Hopefully we get to the point where living close to downtown [[but not in it) is desirable, but the schools and crime issues will have to be fixed before people with higher income jobs willingly plant their families in Detroit.
As I follow Washington, D.C.'s revitalization [[as it continues to add population at a good rate), what appears clear is that the FIRST signs of growth are areas with appeal to young singles and childless couples [[no surprise). Obviously, schools and crime are issues in Detroit, D.C., Chicago, etc. etc. so families with children are less likely to take a chance on those cities. [D.C.'s building boom is multi-family buildings in trendy neighborhoods - full of young professionals paying high rents for the convenience of living where they work and play.]
Detroit is showing that same pattern with downtown, mid-town, corktown, etc.
The next step for Detroit, IMO, will be the development of neighborhoods where young couples with children feel safe and have access to schools which meet their expectations. Some might be parochial schools.
I don't know enough about neighborhoods to say where those areas will be [[or are).
I found the linked article poorly thought out and written. It made me miss old school journalism.
1953
And exactly what do you want 'in the equation'? While I think we'd all be better if we had zero government driven development and favored tax policy, we do. And it makes sense for it to be targeted to industrial and downtown. What else would we do? What is this magic that needs to be applied to the 'hoods?Quote:
Originally Posted by sumas
you have to build off of your strengths to start and that right now is downtown and midtown. in terms of redevelopment things will slowly spread, but the increased tax dollars, if allocated properly to public safety, will help the neighborhoods as dowtown and midtown continue to improve.
the number of restaurants and shops in corktown and west village that have opened up in the last couple of years has been remarkable. that is the type of slower redevelopment you are going to see for the time being but it still is progress and it looks like it will continue to spread.
Really, it's about getting jobs and services back to a concentrated area in the city. It doesn't have to be downtown. There are plenty of towns doing much better than Detroit that have dead or quiet downtowns.
That said, if it is downtown that leads the charge, then that's fine. However, I do think revitalizing a downtown in modern America is exceedingly challenging and a bit of a money pit. People talk about the success of NYC, San Fran, or Boston, but those are "old world" in design. Automotive cities like Detroit need to follow a different - erm - road map. What you need in those cities are safe, semi-urban neighborhoods with plenty of local shops and restaurant. That's how you make the cities sustainable again.
I've noticed in cities like Minneapolis that the big draws are the commercial corridors. Streets with miles and miles of light to moderate urban retail spaces. That's where residents go on a normal day, not downtown. Big office buildings and stadiums require too much parking in an automotive city to be vibrant. You're fighting a major uphill battle that forces developers to take a step back almost every time they take a step forward.
I'd love to turn Detroit into Brooklyn, but until there's a subway system, we're kidding ourselves.
I think bringing Detroit means bringing Woodward, Gratiot, and Michigan back. Indianapolis did a great job bringing back its downtown, but the city hasn't seen the gentrification spill over into the surrounding neighborhoods as you'd expect: http://www.instituteccd.org/news/2161. Indy's urban core is like a bad donut. Everyone wants to be directly in the middle or outside of it. It's a glorified mall, almost quite literally.
Well, I for one, would like some lighting. I've been paying City taxes for years now, is it going to be my turn soon? I would also like the sportsfans and yupsters to learn to cross streets. That way we could free up some of the DPD crossing guards, and maybe send them out on a call to my 'hood every once in a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
Lighting is on the way, and is ahead of schedule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Your comment about yupsters crossing the street is rather humorous. Although, I would point out that the police are typically there to manage traffic when traffic lights are too dumb and inefficient to do it. The police see the current conditions, wait until there is a sufficient queue of pedestrian traffic, and then direct as the conditions dictate.
I've got a question for you, I've noticed some folks started using the terms "yupsters" and "yuppies" a lot more. I understand that it's meant to mean "young urban professional", but is it meant in a derogatory way? Do Detroit residents feel animosity or annoyance toward the yuppies?
There's no wrong answer, I'm just looking for how people feel to get an understanding of the term and how people are using it.
Just to make another point, Dallas is a great example of a city that saw an urban renaissance despite a moribund downtown. The city was able to build a new, expensive urban neighborhood from scratch - Uptown. It's serviced by light rail and has urban retail that'd make Detroit boosters salivate. Most of the construction happened while Downtown Dallas was stuck in the doldrums, and even now downtown has a ways to go before you could truly call it vibrant.
Indy's downtown was the result of some unprecedented investments that could only happen by the city being both the capital and the state's biggest city. Indiana U and Purdue U combined existing schools in Indy to form one large university, IUPUI. Politicians got developers to build a mall downtown when a new mall was still a big deal. Indy's entertainment districts got a big development boost from the Super Bowl. Indy has a lot of pull in its state, whereas Detroit is like a pariah.
If you ask me, it's way more realistic to concentrate development efforts into Midtown/New Center, Corktown, West Village/Indian Village, and etc. I think you could accomplish more a lot faster. I'm all for a vibrant downtown, but it's really not priority #1. The Renaissance Center, the stadiums, the parks... we've seen all this investment downtown with minimal to no returns in surrounding neighborhoods.
Corktown is better now that it doesn't have a ballpark. Go figure.
One Gilbert is way better than none. He gave a tour to Usher in November when he became interested in investing in the D so he wants more investors at the table. That would not only help his investments but bring more diversification in ideas to the table. Usher also has many wealthy friends.
I still want blight removal to be ramped up, including commercial structures and abandoned storefronts. So many major thoroughfares have outright devastated stretches. It is very depressing to have this as your reality when you drive home.