James Craig + Kevyn Orr = More cops on the street?

Something tells me there's gonna be some major changes at DPD, and very soon.

- Orr makes hiring a police chief a priority even though it was politically unpopular and thought by many to be out of his jurisdiction in finances.

- Orr mentions that despite needs for efficiency and cost cutting all across the city, the one place that needs [[and perhaps get?) more resources will be in public safety.

- James Craig combines the credibility of a homegrown Detroiter but has decades of experience in turning around troubled police departments.

- Craig worked in high profile departments like LAPD and is intimately familiar with gang violence, the need for community involvement, contemporary techniques to let crime data guide resource allocation, and dealing with police morale issues.

- Craig mentions in no fewer than 4 media interviews that every single sworn officer needs to be on the street and makes no apologies for saying that all administrative jobs should be performed by civilians.

- Orr and Craig met for several hours prior to his hiring, discussing Orr's power to unilaterally re-write all the work rules and union contracts.

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I'm not saying that unicorns are prancing up and down the Detroit river... but this might be the right combination of political power, outsider perspective, along with homegrown credibility.

I guess we'll just have to see.

I think this hire has the potential to be one of the best hires the City has made in a long time. And to think that Orr made the hire over Bing's wishes to hire internally [[Logan). Orr stated in an interview in the Detroit News that Detroit is a very insular place. That lets me know that he understands more about Detroit than people give him credit for. Craig has been up front and candid about what the police department needs and some of the things he will implement. Contrast that with the news conference when the top brass was asked about the recent rash of shootings. When the question was asked the news conference was over, they walked off the stage without saying a word. That wasn't a good look at all. That's is a result of the insular political culture Orr referred to. The sooner we can get rid of that culture or reduce it significantly the sooner Detroit will start to recover.

Well the talking about it needs to end soon... spring here and shootings are up already:

13 people shot in Detroit in a 24 hour period

Read more: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/22...#ixzz2TXqdYRR3

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Well the talking about it needs to end soon... spring here and shootings are up already:

13 people shot in Detroit in a 24 hour period

Read more: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/22...#ixzz2TXqdYRR3

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Springtime in Detroit, shots are popping up all over.......

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Well the talking about it needs to end soon... spring here and shootings are up already:

13 people shot in Detroit in a 24 hour period

Read more: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/22...#ixzz2TXqdYRR3

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It's going to take way more than just more police to fix the crime situation in Detroit. Along with more resources for police and better policing tactics, we need judges that aren't lenient with sentencing, an involved community, better schools and parents who are involved in their child's education, along with after school activities to keep would be idle hands busy. Hopefully, we're at least ready to take the first step, with is improving the police department.

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Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

It's going to take way more than just more police to fix the crime situation in Detroit. Along with more resources for police and better policing tactics, we need judges that aren't lenient with sentencing, an involved community, better schools and parents who are involved in their child's education, along with after school activities to keep would be idle hands busy. Hopefully, we're at least ready to take the first step, with is improving the police department.

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I can't disagree with this in principle, but there are lots of cities with bad schools and bad parents that don't have the level of violence that Detroit has. On the other hand, a lot of them have better-functioning police departments.

I think the DPD will get a lot more efficient pretty quickly. James Craig worked with Bill Bratton [[former commission of NYPD and LAPD) who introduced the data intensive tactics to the NYPD and LAPD [[CompStat).

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think the DPD will get a lot more efficient pretty quickly. James Craig worked with Bill Bratton [[former commission of NYPD and LAPD) who introduced the data intensive tactics to the NYPD and LAPD [[CompStat).

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I'm betting they'll do so in ways many are not suspecting.

Yesterday morning, I saw a school cop had pulled over a fellow on Lafayette not far from that high school just west of Soave's place by the cemetery. I've never seen a school cop pull a car over. Ever.

Told my honey that the commute chauffeur was not going to participate in the 50-mph parade-o'-stressed-out-fools from the east any longer...with the new management in town it is only a matter of time before they tap into this lucrative revenue stream regularly.

There have also been a few traffic enforcement vehicles active in the past week, and I believe they are assigned to an area...not just wandering. More lights flashing on Lafayette than we're used to seeing in the morning.

We had our first casual drive in this morning...back to giggling at those who change lanes and drive like maniacs instead of cussing at 'em and trying to keep up. Set the cruise at the speed limit and wave to the frantic when you catch 'em at the next stoplight.


I'd suggest y'all join in...this is a game we can all play.

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Originally Posted by Gannon

I'm betting they'll do so in ways many are not suspecting.

Yesterday morning, I saw a school cop had pulled over a fellow on Lafayette not far from that high school just west of Soave's place by the cemetery. I've never seen a school cop pull a car over. Ever.

Told my honey that the commute chauffeur was not going to participate in the 50-mph parade-o'-stressed-out-fools from the east any longer...with the new management in town it is only a matter of time before they tap into this lucrative revenue stream regularly.

There have also been a few traffic enforcement vehicles active in the past week, and I believe they are assigned to an area...not just wandering. More lights flashing on Lafayette than we're used to seeing in the morning.

We had our first casual drive in this morning...back to giggling at those who change lanes and drive like maniacs instead of cussing at 'em and trying to keep up. Set the cruise at the speed limit and wave to the frantic when you catch 'em at the next stoplight.


I'd suggest y'all join in...this is a game we can all play.

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Are school cops allowed to write traffic citations in Detroit? That'd be surprising.

Back when Warren Evans was chief I noticed far more traffic stops on primary and secondary roadways in northwest Detroit than I had ever seen in my life. Seems like those pretty much stopped completely once Evans was relieved of his duties...

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

I can't disagree with this in principle, but there are lots of cities with bad schools and bad parents that don't have the level of violence that Detroit has. On the other hand, a lot of them have better-functioning police departments.

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I'm sure their court systems must be tougher on convicts than here. You can have the best police department in the world, but if the criminal just gets a slap on the wrist then he's back out committing crimes again. A lot of the problems in Detroit a cyclical and interdependent. I just don't see how you can effectively fight crime long term with just a good police department and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I just don't see how you can effectively fight crime long term with just a good police department and nothing else.

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You can't. And James Craig knows it. I listened to 3 different interviews with him yesterday [[because I apparently have no life), and in the one with Frank Beckmann [[WJR), he spoke specifically about how he worked with church leaders in LA and "held their feet to the fire" and pressured/encouraged/persuaded them to take more active responsibility in preventing violence before it even happened.

There's a common "meme" in Detroit public policy. 7 different components might need to be changed to solve a problem. But whenever you approach one of the components, they have historically resisted change because they don't believe that the other 6 components will make the sacrifice and change with them. The result? No one changes. Rinse and repeat.

The power of the EM is that he can take the political fall for forcing unwanted change...but he can also make sure that all 7 components do it, so that in the end...it will all have been worth it for the greater good.

In theory, anyway. We'll have to see how it all works out.

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Are school cops allowed to write traffic citations in Detroit? That'd be surprising.

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In Washtenaw County, I have a 67-year-old client who is a crossing guard. She told me that with her orange parka and giant stop sign, she wields the power to issue traffic citations. No joke.

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Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

You can't. And James Craig knows it. I listened to 3 different interviews with him yesterday [[because I apparently have no life), and in the one with Frank Beckmann [[WJR), he spoke specifically about how he worked with church leaders in LA and "held their feet to the fire" and pressured/encouraged/persuaded them to take more active responsibility in preventing violence before it even happened.

There's a common "meme" in Detroit public policy. 7 different components might need to be changed to solve a problem. But whenever you approach one of the components, they have historically resisted change because they don't believe that the other 6 components will make the sacrifice and change with them. The result? No one changes. Rinse and repeat.

The power of the EM is that he can take the political fall for forcing unwanted change...but he can also make sure that all 7 components do it, so that in the end...it will all have been worth it for the greater good.

In theory, anyway. We'll have to see how it all works out.


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In Washtenaw County, I have a 67-year-old client who is a crossing guard. She told me that with her orange parka and giant stop sign, she wields the power to issue traffic citations. No joke.

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Cork, what are the seven components? just curious

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Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

he spoke specifically about how he worked with church leaders in LA and "held their feet to the fire" and pressured/encouraged/persuaded them to take more active responsibility in preventing violence before it even happened.

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But when I posted this a few months back, I was branded a racist. @ least I feel vindicated.

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Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

In Washtenaw County, I have a 67-year-old client who is a crossing guard. She told me that with her orange parka and giant stop sign, she wields the power to issue traffic citations. No joke.

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I am sure, then, the young white dude was speeding through the school zone. Happens every morning there. I've been as guilty of it as the next driver, so it could've been me.

But the other Traffic Enforcement vehicles seemed to be targeting Lafayette, which is fine by me since it seems drivers really mean it during rush hour. The lights seem precisely timed to insure at least a +15mph dash to make the next one. OR, as I learned this morning, driving just slightly below the limit.

Charlevoix, too. 'twas a gentle cruise today...

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Originally Posted by Gannon

There have also been a few traffic enforcement vehicles active in the past week, and I believe they are assigned to an area...not just wandering. More lights flashing on Lafayette than we're used to seeing in the morning.

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That stretch of Lafayette has always been like shooting fish in the barrel for traffic cops. One block over on Larned, too. You get a lot of people that try to avoid the traffic on Jefferson, and they use the lack of traffic to increase their speed.

I asked this question on another thread and didn't get any bites. But, does anybody have any stats to show what the return on investment is for one traffic enforcement officer? Do they actually make a profit for the government?

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Originally Posted by Bryce

I'm sure they'll just follow Rahm and Daley's template in Chicago: hire more officers and focus 90% of the manpower in viable areas, i.e., downtown and north side, while ignoring the southern and western slums. For Detroit, you'd insulate a certain radius around downtown and midtown, and more or less ignore the other 99% of the city.

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Must suck to see only the negatives in anything.

I expect and anticipate better policing everywhere. If they choose to start with downtown, that's OK too. Maybe getting one area right is necessary before you can fix everything. In NYC, Bratton started with the subways, if I recall correctly. Turned out OK.

And I'm sure some people complained.

I hope and pray that they succeed but...

The new commissioner speaks of raising morale of the police. Does this mean ending of 12 hour shifts and restoring some of the lost wages and benefits.

And what can he do about that huge elephant in Detroit's room -- the hundreds of thousands of impoverished citizens, homeless, felons and ex-felons the city is stuck caring for and who cannot pay taxes but require much revenue?

Until that changes, meaning the state and region share the burden, I see little more than the proverbial rearranging of the deck seats on the Titanic.

Maybe the best we can hope for is that he doesn't end up in some embarrassing scandal like so many of his predecessors leaving us yet again in the lurch. That alone would be a huge improvement.

Welcome to the D Mr. Craig.

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Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I'm sure their court systems must be tougher on convicts than here. You can have the best police department in the world, but if the criminal just gets a slap on the wrist then he's back out committing crimes again. A lot of the problems in Detroit a cyclical and interdependent. I just don't see how you can effectively fight crime long term with just a good police department and nothing else.

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Good point, the DPD is only a part of the criminal justice system. All of the parts of the system need to work in order to see a reduction in crime. To put the burden on the DPD only to reduce crime is unfair and doesn't reflect reality.

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Originally Posted by Bryce

I wasn't being negative, just predicting what will likely happen.

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And your prediction I think is realistic.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

I can't disagree with this in principle, but there are lots of cities with bad schools and bad parents that don't have the level of violence that Detroit has. On the other hand, a lot of them have better-functioning police departments.

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There aren't lots of cities that have bad everything like Detroit has. Also, there aren't lots of cities that have virtually no middle class tax base. More resources for police and fire sounds great, big question is where it's going to come from. Mr. Orr is a smart guy, maybe he can figure it out.

The DPD has their hands tied by lots of red tape. Instead of officers handcuffing the thugs, the City handcuffs the cops and won't let them do their jobs. Paperwork is overwhelming on a daily basis. One arrest can take 6 to 7 hours of a shift for one officer. It has to be made more streamlined, there has to be more help back at booking. Thugs have to be babysat at the hospital if they complain of a back problem or chest pains or whatever they can think of at the time. I am condensing this, but maybe you get the idea. Are you aware that whenever a perp is in custody and is taken the the hospital, the City of Detroit is responsible for the medical bills? Some of these perps are offered better medical care than the cops families receive...unbelieveable.

Uh... So what has changed tho? Does the city have more money somehow? miracle money for cops?

First and foremost. More police doesn't equal less crime. If you want to believe it does then by all means but Its simply not the case. Now there is something to be said for "trying" to get crime under control. The go to for that is more cops on the street. It makes sense but it doesn't work. You want people to feel like their police are making a difference and out there fighting crime. A better strategy [[as opposed to cops on the street) is detectives solving cases. You are more likely to make a difference if you can solve the crimes that happen and take the criminal off the street as opposed to "right place at the right time" policework. Honeypots. Entrapment or what have you. Police should be doing that more.

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Originally Posted by softailrider

There aren't lots of cities that have bad everything like Detroit has. Also, there aren't lots of cities that have virtually no middle class tax base. More resources for police and fire sounds great, big question is where it's going to come from. Mr. Orr is a smart guy, maybe he can figure it out.

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One theory is that the state of Michigan will find a pot of gold and hand it to Detroit now that Orr is in control.

The other theory is the same, except instead of the state of Michigan it would be suburban corporations.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

One theory is that the state of Michigan will find a pot of gold and hand it to Detroit now that Orr is in control.

The other theory is the same, except instead of the state of Michigan it would be suburban corporations.

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Detroit does not have the money to exist without help. What should probably have happened [[from the perspective of being able to pay the bills, that is) is that as population migrated outward, the political boundaries should have migrated as well. Because it didn't, you now have the poorest 25% of the population trying to pay for the costs of a city designed for 3x the number of people living in it.

That's like asking a $7/hr employee to buy a 4-bdrm house with a 3-car garage.

So you are right. Either the State of Michigan will add funding, but they will control how it is spent. Or a de facto mechanism will take place with suburban [[and city-based, let's not forget) corporations creating entities to fund police and fire services.

One way or the other, the good news is that the sh-t that badly needs to get paid for [[city services, public safety, etc.) is finally gonna get paid for. The bad news is that a lot of people who were accustomed to wielding political power [[at best) or making some side money off the corruption [[at worst) are no longer gonna be relevant.

Sounds like a win/win.

A government [[especially a municipal government) exists for one reason. To provide services to its residents. The people will elect what is fair way to do so. And if the government fails to do it, the political structure will eventually fail to exist.

With 117 homicides within 135 days in Detroit. This city do need more cops.