Plan would let Detroit neighborhoods collect fee for private security, other services

A citywide coalition is preparing an ordinance for Detroit Council consideration that would allow willing neighborhoods to assess a fee on property owners to supplement services their government is struggling to provide: crime prevention, snow removal and mosquito abatement.The ordinance, according to Karen Johnson Moore of the Grandmont Rosedale Neighborhood Development Corporation, would allow neighborhoods whose residents approve to hire private contractors for those services while potentially boosting city revenue through a likely increase in property taxes.


While the coalition includes residents from some of the city's healthiest areas, many of whom already pool voluntary resources for private security, the ordinance will allow any neighborhood with willing residents to form a special assessment district to pay for a supplemental service-level of their choosing.
"We don't want it to be just a Northwest Detroit idea, but something that's good for all neighborhoods," said Moore, whose Grandmont-Rosedale group is working with other community organizations around the city.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in..._river_default

The DDA-ization of the neighborhoods?

Might as well secede from the city.

This has stand-your-ground written all over it.

You think that issue down in Florida was lawless......

Don't be surprised if the poor areas are taken care by the county eventually. Just like another Pontiac. The prime areas of Detroit will form a city.

So, they want to raise the property tax AND make it so we basically are going to have to pay separately for the things the property tax should be paying for in the first place? What's the point of having the City then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Don't be surprised if the poor areas are taken care by the county eventually. Just like another Pontiac. The prime areas of Detroit will form a city.

---

I think you're right. Truth is, I wouldn't mind paying an extra $250 per year for security services through a neighborhood fee. Because I know that every bit of that $250 would come right back to me. If I pay it to the city, then you've got legacy costs, bureaucratic fat, etc.

And that's if I'm being kind and assuming no corruption and theft.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that even on neighboring suburbs, they may be willing to kick in money too to those neighborhoods that are adjacent to their borders. For example on Alter Rd where Grosse Pointe meets Detroit, I wouldn't be surprised if GPP was willing to kick in $5-10,000 per year but only if every dollar was going to be spent securing the neighborhood adjacent to the border.

Then, yes, the viable neighborhoods can focus on being viable. The residents in unviable neighborhoods won't be forced to move. But they'll hopefully choose to eventually do so in order to get better services.

So here'S what is being proposed: the funds to make the lighting repayment attractive to an Authority are being taken from the police and fire department dedicated funds. We will be asked to support a millage of some $300 per year per property to make up the monies bring transferred to lighting. Why? Because no one would support a millage for lighting, but maybe we will for safety. And then, on top of that, we would pay for private security in our neighborhoods!
We already pay $300 to get our garbage picked up - and it so annoys me! I have a single bin and I carry nearly every recyclable thing off. Yet ALL my neighbors here have a couple of bins that they don't pay additional monies. One guy puts out five bins. I looked him up and he hasn't paid his property tax since 2009.
I am so leery of all this stuff now because so many people aren't pulling their weight. How would people in a neighborhood getting private security be required to pay for the benefit I am paying extra to provide for them?

So this basically takes something that is voluntary and makes it compulsory. I would prefer to see something more along the lines of taking a certain percentage of the current tax revenue and directly investing it into the neighborhood. In other words, the neighborhood gets a cut of the money, before it enters the bottomless pit known as the General Fund.

Let neighborhoods create Tax Increment Financing districts.

Any increase in tax revenue generated by higher property values is plowed right back into the neighborhood.

Old news in some ways. Palmer Woods has hired security for decades. This seems to just be an extension of that concept.

No Lowell you missed it. This will not be voluntary. It will create special assessment districts. In a normal world [[like where you live) I would be for it. But in Detroit, 40% of the residents don't pay their regular property taxes and the millages and assessments [[as for garbage collection). So I would be paying extra to protect 40% of my neighbors who won't get in the pool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Funaho

So, they want to raise the property tax AND make it so we basically are going to have to pay separately for the things the property tax should be paying for in the first place? What's the point of having the City then?

---

It is pathetic, isn't it.

But your question begs an answer.

The City remains necessary -- even in its pathetic incarnation. For example you might have private guards, but you still need the police as backup and in most cases to make actual arrests. Most private security forces aren't at the level of Wayne State -- but are more like private guards. Not much real power. Same with code enforcement.

So the city remains necessary.

Allowing certain neighborhoods to self-organize a bit may make them viable. And having some viable neighorhoods will help the rest of the city. And maybe the example of how you can improve a neighborhood by basic services will shame the City into action -- much like Charter schools have already done for education in the City.

[[Not to change subjects, but if charters are no better than public schools its probably because the publics have been pushed to reform by the existence of the charters. Maybe the same thing can happen for city services. That's the idea -- right or wrong -- of much of the conservative criticism of government. That competition in any form helps lift all boats -- and government programs of the last 50 years haven't done much for the water level)

As a Palmer Woods resident let me explain why this is a fantastic idea. As Lowell stated earlier we have had private security for quite a while. We pay for that security and for snow plowing and landscaping and neighborhood events with the dues that residents pay to the neighborhood association. The dues each year come to about 450 a year which given the services provided is a pretty good deal. The catch is that not everyone is part of the association. Granted there are some residents who might not be able to afford paying that [[I know that sounds odd for Palmer Woods, but there are elderly residents who are on fixed incomes), but there are also a fair number who chose not to pay. Those who are not paying are reaping the rewards from those who do pay. They are getting their streets plowed and while security will drive past their house, they actually will not respond to non association members should they call. We have wrestled with how to get more people to pay the dues but there is really no way to do that unless the city enforces it like they propose to do.
There is also a kind of irony here that our neighborhood even needs private security when the 12th precinct is right across 7 mile from us. But I have learned from experience in dealing with them that we are lucky to get a response if we call for help, and when they do show up it is generally hours after a crime or emergency has happened.

How about enforcing and make the 40-60% pay their taxes , We already know how it turns out the other way around .
I LOVE THE CITY OF DETROIT AND WHAT IT COULD BE !, but
In my opinion, this speaks VOLUMES ! If the people who swear to protect and sever WONT live in the city even with a sweet deal like this WHAT MESSAGE DOES THIS SEND to the citizen left in the city.
This really bother me when I read it . If the city cant' persuade the people who are "suppose" to protect us to move into some of THE BEST areas of the city, it shows they have little or no faith in the city that pays their salary .

I know the state passed a law stating that people that work for the city didn't have to live in the city , in my opinion the people of Detroit are on the losing end of this arrangement .

If 1500 more cops were living in the city and paying property taxes, I would feel a little safer.

We've ALL [[from the top down) know the Detroit PD won't even show up half the time .I'm sure the police show up where they[[1500) choose to live when they call .
What are we paying for? we need to start completely over and require members of DPD to live in the city limits. If they don't like it I'm sure the police department where they are currently living is hiring ;-). [[sarcasms)
To be fair ,I'm sure there are some [[a very few) DP that are doing their best in a Job that is one of the toughest in the country , and before you all pile on , I wouldn't do their job, but they choose to do this , like the military which I was in. I've lived in several big cities around the country and world and visit many other cities and countries so I know how it works.
I just don't feel like I could really count on the DPD if I really needed them, I'm sorry this is just how I feel, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Every time you watch the news or read the news paper more people are talking the law into their own hands :-[[ It's like the wild west !

It's obvious many people in the city of Detroit feel the same way I do .ABANDONED. I do believe in the rights to bare arms, but prior to moving Detroit I would have NEVER consider getting a gun , after living here 3 years I'm looking into getting my CCW :-[[ I live in the City limits in a pretty nice area , but when you hear about home break ins every other day I can't help but to think , if someone does break into my house . I KNOW FOR A FACT they are coming in armed . What choice do I have ? a baseball bat, golf clubs ?
I just don't want to take that chance :-[[ I have to protect our home and the people in it . I've thought about leaving the city again, but my family has been here for over 90 years and they just wont leave and now that I'm back I feel torn , I can't leave them here alone in . I can't leave a 86 year old and 66 year old woman in the city by their self.
We have been in our house since before I was born early 60's and like I said the neighborhood [[northwest/bagley)is still semi stable, but their has been petty theft happening lately. I know theft happens every where and no place is totally safe, but I want to know that if I call the police they will show up . Is that too much to ask? lately it seems so.
We have a right to feel safe in our neighborhood . I'm not against areas of the city hiring private police since it seems the police force we already pay for are out maned , overwhelmed or aren't up to the job.
Maybe the DPd should be place under a EM?
I feel like we are in a war zone and we the citizen of Detroit are basically on our own.
Detroit has the most potential of any city and I do see hope and LOVE the city but basic safety is key.
Frustrated and Torn.

Ragnarok: how do you propose the City enforce this? The City can't enforce that people pay their property taxes as it is. 40% do not.

A man on my street last paid property taxes in 2007. He is still in his house as a sort of squatter. No one has moved him out yet. And by the way, as he has some sort of chronic liver disease from alcohol abuse and no vehicle [[he's 44), he calls an EMS to take him to the hospital about twice a month. He is using EMS as his personal conveyance for non-life threatening attacks. Yet he does not pay property taxes and there is no one to make him pay.

And around the corner a homeowner died without any relatives in 2008. Her big two-family brick flat is occupied by squatters who pay nothing for City services. Since the brick porches have fallen in, I notice that they have removed those bricks and have used them to make a fire-pit in the backyard.
Think they are going to pay? The City doesn't even have a clue who they are and no way to aor thought to get them out.

The city could enforce tax payment but I think they are so overwhelmed with everything else that it seems like a herculean task. Also not every place would have this special assessment placed on it. It is only for areas that request it. Yes this will be tricky to work out, but I think we have gotten to a point where we can no longer look to the city to take care of a lot of what we used to expect from them. We now need to look to our local communities to step up and if that means this assessment then so be it. Frankly I would be happy to pay it because before my neighborhood started plowing our streets we would have streets that were near impassable and a real danger. It has gotten to the point where I have heard more and more people talking about breaking away from Detroit and forming a new city.

I would be very happy to pay for it. But I am sick of paying for all the 40% free-loaders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

How about enforcing and make the 40-60% pay their taxes , We already know how it turns out the other way around .
I LOVE THE CITY OF DETROIT AND WHAT IT COULD BE !, but
In my opinion, this speaks VOLUMES ! If the people who swear to protect and sever WONT live in the city even with a sweet deal like this WHAT MESSAGE DOES THIS SEND to the citizen left in the city.
This really bother me when I read it . If the city cant' persuade the people who are "suppose" to protect us to move into some of THE BEST areas of the city, it shows they have little or no faith in the city that pays their salary .

I know the state passed a law stating that people that work for the city didn't have to live in the city , in my opinion the people of Detroit are on the losing end of this arrangement .

If 1500 more cops were living in the city and paying property taxes, I would feel a little safer.

We've ALL [[from the top down) know the Detroit PD won't even show up half the time .I'm sure the police show up where they[[1500) choose to live when they call .
What are we paying for? we need to start completely over and require members of DPD to live in the city limits. If they don't like it I'm sure the police department where they are currently living is hiring ;-). [[sarcasms)
To be fair ,I'm sure there are some [[a very few) DP that are doing their best in a Job that is one of the toughest in the country , and before you all pile on , I wouldn't do their job, but they choose to do this , like the military which I was in. I've lived in several big cities around the country and world and visit many other cities and countries so I know how it works.
I just don't feel like I could really count on the DPD if I really needed them, I'm sorry this is just how I feel, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Every time you watch the news or read the news paper more people are talking the law into their own hands :-[[ It's like the wild west !

It's obvious many people in the city of Detroit feel the same way I do .ABANDONED. I do believe in the rights to bare arms, but prior to moving Detroit I would have NEVER consider getting a gun , after living here 3 years I'm looking into getting my CCW :-[[ I live in the City limits in a pretty nice area , but when you hear about home break ins every other day I can't help but to think , if someone does break into my house . I KNOW FOR A FACT they are coming in armed . What choice do I have ? a baseball bat, golf clubs ?
I just don't want to take that chance :-[[ I have to protect our home and the people in it . I've thought about leaving the city again, but my family has been here for over 90 years and they just wont leave and now that I'm back I feel torn , I can't leave them here alone in . I can't leave a 86 year old and 66 year old woman in the city by their self.
We have been in our house since before I was born early 60's and like I said the neighborhood [[northwest/bagley)is still semi stable, but their has been petty theft happening lately. I know theft happens every where and no place is totally safe, but I want to know that if I call the police they will show up . Is that too much to ask? lately it seems so.
We have a right to feel safe in our neighborhood . I'm not against areas of the city hiring private police since it seems the police force we already pay for are out maned , overwhelmed or aren't up to the job.
Maybe the DPd should be place under a EM?
I feel like we are in a war zone and we the citizen of Detroit are basically on our own.
Detroit has the most potential of any city and I do see hope and LOVE the city but basic safety is key.
Frustrated and Torn.

---

First, I understand your frustration. It's warranted. The question is how do we go forward...

The problem is that you are confusing political power with economic power. Yes we have a right to feel safe in our neighborhood. The problem is that 700,000 other people also have that right. Then crimes need to be addressed with limited resources and in order of their urgency.

Enforce tax collections? Yes, of course. But then you go up against existing laws and practices...which can be changed, but that change requires consent of the electorate, the political will of leadership, and the balancing against the rights of employees. All those entities have rights, too.

Get rid of unnecessary layers of government? Of course. But every employee has a right to advocate for their employment. Every department has a right to advocate for their existence. We have to deal with their rights.

The democratic process has a lot of benefits. Creating an environment where municipal services and departments can quickly adapt and change is not one of them.

I don't want to have to pay an extra $300. But if that $300 is going to pay for private security in my neighborhood and not into the black hole called "the general fund", I'm ok with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ragnarok1981

The city could enforce tax payment but I think they are so overwhelmed with everything else that it seems like a herculean task. Also not every place would have this special assessment placed on it. It is only for areas that request it. Yes this will be tricky to work out, but I think we have gotten to a point where we can no longer look to the city to take care of a lot of what we used to expect from them. We now need to look to our local communities to step up and if that means this assessment then so be it. Frankly I would be happy to pay it because before my neighborhood started plowing our streets we would have streets that were near impassable and a real danger. It has gotten to the point where I have heard more and more people talking about breaking away from Detroit and forming a new city.

---

First question: Why should your neighborhood dues be legislated by city government?

Second question: Since the main reason you have these private services is lack of service from the city government... Why on Earth would you want them to take control of that?

Good Ideal for those living in Boston Edison, Alden Park, Old Reford, Fox Creek, Woodbridge, Woodbridge Estates, Balduck Park, Mohican Regent, Warrendale, Little Iraq Warrendale, Grandmont-North Rosedale Park, East Village, East English Village, Grixdale, The New Herman Gardens, Brush Park, Midtown, Palmer Woods, Sherwood Forrest, Martin Park, Hubbard Farms, Hubbard King, Bagley, Isaac Crary-St Marys, Lashley Cox, College Park, Palmer Park [[the Housing area not the apartments or the park themselves.)ect..

Bad Ideal for those who living one block club low-income black and blighted Detroit ghettohoods. Those folks don't have any type of money to pay for protection. This is fear tactic to keep low-income and po'folks out of Detroit so it can be rehab into Dan Gilbert's image.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

For Trayvon Martin, the 99 Percenters, Guy Fawkes and Neda.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Danny

Bad Ideal for those who living one block club low-income black and blighted Detroit ghettohoods. Those folks don't have any type of money to pay for protection. This is fear tactic to keep low-income and po'folks out of Detroit so it can be rehab into Dan Gilbert's image.

---

Or to encourage them to move to other, more viable, neighborhoods.

Yes, by hitting north of 8 Mile Rd.

@Danny....and where EXACTLY do you live in WARRENDALE....you include it in your list....I have 36 homes on my block in WARRENDALE...where I still live and have lived for over 30 years....11 of those 36 homes are vacant...stripped...if they were cars - you'd call them totaled. 10 are owned by the oldtimers like myself....that leaves 15....are they rentals????? Can't ask because no one seems to stay for more than a month or two.....So....I know you can't be living in all of the neighborhoods you listed...Where do you get your info...or...shall I say...mis-information????????????????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Danny

Yes, by hitting north of 8 Mile Rd.

---

I don't to be dense, and I can't tell if your tone is snarky or matter-of-fact. Are you saying that these people would rather move to St. Clair Shores rather than, say, Rosedale Park? And if they are low-income residents, are there suburban homes that would be in their price/rent range?

Not sure what you mean.