Wow. I knew it was hard times, but another millage? They say it will average $3 per week or $150 per year. I already pay $300 to have my garbage collected and I pay those school millages to run the worst, most failing schools in the country! And I am one of the relative few who pay property taxes in Detroit, if the recent stories about property tax scofflaws are accurate.
I think I am not supportive of this proposal.
It would be a good thing if the money collected would go where it was intended to go. The money would strangely disappear, be mis-spent, pay for pedicures or manicures, maybe even a washer and dryer for a friend. Until the City of Detroit gets some competent people working there who are honest and have integrity, nothing will change. Right now, it seems everyone who is anyone in Wayne county doesn't know how to keep their hands out of the cookie jar.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buy American
I know we don't always see eye to eye, but I would be far more inclined to fight against the consent agreement and for local control if I had any faith that our local leaders had the political strength [[and political will) to go in and slash up the organizations and get rid of the waste.
But every time someone talks about eliminating or consolidating departments to clean up spending, the reaction is totally through the roof.
Another worrisome thing is that the spokesmen for the idea are, without a doubt, representatives of the old Detroit that milked the citizens and robbed our coffers. Blackwell & Preacher Vann - one certainly and maybe both of the KK era and mentality.
My sentiments exactly SWMAP. When I saw that the spokesman was Blackwell I almost upchucked. Surely there are more credible people somewhere. We keep getting the same warmed over politicians such as Blackwell and all the others who move from position to position doing nothing but enriching themselves. We need some fresh new leaders who can be trusted.
Rumor has it that when the movie BURN premiered in NYC in April, $25,000 was presented to the DFD for much needed equipment [[boots, gloves). People had to make sure that it was not put in the Citys General Fund because the firefighters knew they would never see a dime of that money, they knew it would disappear. What a shame that Denis Leary, the producer and director of the movie had to be told of that dirty part of City administration.
Be careful before you vote for this millage that is expected to bring in $56M per year. Remember how the lottery was sold back in the 70's? The State promised the proceeds would go to schools. Well it does, but the State just cut the regular funding for education. People thought the lottery money would be added to the money that was already earmarked for schools. Boy were we duped. The same thing will happen with this millage unless you add minimum staffing levels or a guaranteed general budget funding level in addition to the dedicated millage. If the millage gets passed, [[based on past city practices) I sense some fact finding trips to Maui or Tahiti to gather intel on how other Police Dept. are run.
Time for a couple of Commissioners to be dumped.
Is any function/capacity of public service sacred anymore?
The sad thing about this is that there are very legitimate conversations that need to be had with someone advocating for liberal and progressive causes. But when all the people who are representing that side of the argument turn out to be running a criminal and corrupt organization...Quote:
Originally Posted by TKshreve
[[1) Reasonable progressive ideas become the collateral damage in the marketplace of ideas,
[[2) The people these civic leaders are supposed to be championing become the victims of the theft,
[[3) The most marginalized citizens among us are left to choose between leaders who are openly hostile or covertly hostile...leaving them to trust no one...which makes it that much more difficult for the next group of leaders to solve problems.
Government can only function when it's citizens trust it to have power. Right now that trust is lost, and everyone is running amok. I'm totally fine bringing in emergency power to tear the whole thing up.
There's gonna be collateral damage either way...either the fair-minded well-intended non-corrupt leaders will have to take the fall, or the masses, the citizens, the constituents will have to take the fall.
I don't like having to make that choice, but we're at the point where there aren't too many other options. And I know which side of the line I fall on.
As the other remaining taxpayer in Detroit, I think you speak for both of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMAP
Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means part of the anti-tax crowd. However in Detroit we pay more taxes than anyone for the worst services. I'm all for taxes when there is something to show for it.
I'm also for responsible government. I know the city has lost much of its tax base but it is still grossly mismanaged on virtually every level. Until that is fixed in any remotely meaningful way, I don't want to pay more just to keep a bloated, inefficient system and bloated, inefficient bureaucrats around for a little while longer until they meet their inevitable demise.
Instead of doing anything meaningful to retain tax-paying residents [[see the thread about the individual asking what successful projects have been pioneered or aided by the city to stabilize the neighborhoods in the past 30 years. Answer: none) the city has resigned itself to everyone and their mother leaving and taxing the HELL out of those unlucky few of us that remain.
All to live in the paradise that is Detroit! Don't get me wrong, Detroit is great in many ways. However the irony is that from where I live I could throw a rock and hit Grosse Pointe. If I moved there I would actually pay LESS taxes for a practically paramilitary police force and the best schools around.
So I say, millage? fuck you very much. I pay more than my fair share already. Work with what you've got. The rest of us all have to.
The mill rate is much higher in Detroit but I suspect for an equivalent house you would pay much more in taxes due to the taxable value.Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
Your point stands and is valid but comparing mill rates without comparing taxable value on comparable homes is missing a key piece of data.
It does also raise an issue that is prevalent in the city. The assessors office seems to key in on certain neighborhoods and either inflate or maintain reasonable assessments while ignoring parcels in many, many other areas or keeping the assessment exceptionally low. I'm pretty sure your neighborhood is one that the city either inflates or keeps reasonable assessments [[So you end up paying more than many other areas).
The city assessor also likes to gives very, very low assessments to properties owned by the Ilitches, Marouns, etc
Before asking for more money for officers they need to move a number of admin functions performed by officers to be done by civilians. It is done in pretty much every city except here.
I want trained officers on the streets and people doing data entry, clerical functions as civilians without the benefits, pensions, training, etc of officers.
I would also like to see a comparison of 'sick time/personal time' in Detroit compared to other cities. The last number I saw was greater than 20% of the force calls in sick on any given day. What is the norm for other large cities.
Throwing money at millages has not improved the schools, lighting, libraries, etc. I appreciate that voters in the city support milllages with the hope that services will improve but it just doesn't happen. The library millage was approved about 5 years ago and what has happened to the library system since then?
Spot on!Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganMan
Minimum funding is good in theory, but in practice it'll just lead to higher pay for some subset of favored police employees -- and that probably won't be the front-line.
Staffing levels is the only possible thing to detail -- but it must be real bodies on the street. Not in administration. And from a DPD friend -- be careful. They lie about how many people are on the street -- counting all sorts of limited work people and special details. This is tough, but the only way.
Otherwise MichiganMan is 100% right. Money will flow to the idiots, not the officers.
The thread shows one way incompetent and corrupt government has made Detroit worse than it had to be. Unquestionably the past 60 years have seen economic and social developments damaging to Detroit in a way that no city administration could completely overcome. But bad government makes it impossible to generate support to do anything about it at all. I believe the Detroit police need more resources, but for all the reasons above I don't think providing them would be a good idea.
Then AFSCME would jump in and demand higher pay equivalent to what the officers were getting. Remember, this is Detroit we're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
AFSCME has agreed to tremendous cuts in the past few years. It appears that short of it disbanding, you'd continue to oppose them at every turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddle