Only 6 out of 1500 non-resident Detroit cops take incentives to live in Detroit?

So it is being reported across local media. The 1500 number was cited on WDET. The Detroit news puts the number at 'about half' of the current force of 2700.

The offer seems very generous and no doubt it would they would be warmly welcomed.

My question is, if this is not working why not instead give a similar offer to the cops who are staying in Detroit now? Work on keeping what you have. Hopefully there is one. Otherwise it seems to be rewarding those who left / never lived vs. those who are there making a difference.

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Here's how the program works: Nonprofits and the Detroit Land Bank use federal money to fix homes in Boston Edison, East English Village, North Rosedale Park and Green Acres.The homes are then offered to police and firefighters living in the suburbs, who can qualify for up to $25,000 in forgivable mortgage loans.

A similar deal recently was extended to all other city employees, who can get up to $15,000 in mortgage help.

The mortgage assistance comes from private banks, and participants pay normal property tax rates. More than 100 non-public safety employees have started the buying process.


From The Detroit News:

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Huh? So the City would encourage cops currently living in Detroit [[I would love to see those numbers) to move from their current residences in current neighborhoods to fancier places in fancier neighborhoods - with grant money that could be used other places?

OR the City could incentivize the cops and firemen to stay in their current homes! Of course, they may never have intended to move - but that would be free money too and no one would refuse it. I wouldn't.

This program is lame all the way around. The star player is an unmarried cop who got a huge investment made for him to live in really nice digs. He has no kids to worry about private schooling for. No wonder he made the move from his apartment downriver. It is no skin off his back and he would have been a FOOL not to take it. $160,000 in upgrades and a mortgage of only $50,000 - and surely that was greased too. If this poster child didn't have the 20% down - no matter. They needed a poster.

I would like to see if he puts down roots, brings a wife and children to this house.

And do the neighbors know that he is not allowed to take police action out of his assigned district? All he can do is get cops on the run there faster.

And they've spent more than 500k on the program.

Now, granted, often this federal earmarks are restricted in terms of usage, but it still seems like a ridiculous waste of money. It would probably be more efficient and beneficial for the city to just throw the cash out the window, and see who catches it.

Spending nearly 100k each to renovate six homes, in a city where the median sales price is about 12k?

Standard government operating procedure. It's not their money, so why should they care?

I LOVE THE CITY OF DETROIT AND WHAT IT COULD BE !, but
In my opinion, this speaks VOLUMES ! If the people who swear to protect and sever WONT live in the city even with a sweet deal like this WHAT MESSAGE DOES THIS SEND to the citizen left in the city.
This really bother me when I read it . If the city cant' persuade the people who are "suppose" to protect us to move into some of THE BEST areas of the city, it shows they have little or no faith in the city that pays their salary .

I know the state passed a law stating that people that work for the city didn't have to live in the city , in my opinion the people of Detroit are on the losing end of this arrangement .

If 1500 more cops were living in the city and paying property taxes, I would feel a little safer.

We've ALL [[from the top down) know the Detroit PD won't even show up half the time .I'm sure the police show up where they[[1500) choose to live when they call .
What are we paying for? we need to start completely over and require members of DPD to live in the city limits. If they don't like it I'm sure the police department where they are currently living is hiring ;-). [[sarcasms)
To be fair ,I'm sure there are some [[a very few) DP that are doing their best in a Job that is one of the toughest in the country , and before you all pile on , I wouldn't do their job, but they choose to do this , like the military which I was in. I've lived in several big cities around the country and world and visit many other cities and countries so I know how it works.
I just don't feel like I could really count on the DPD if I really needed them, I'm sorry this is just how I feel, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Every time you watch the news or read the news paper more people are talking the law into their own hands :-[[ It's like the wild west !

It's obvious many people in the city of Detroit feel the same way I do .ABANDONED. I do believe in the rights to bare arms, but prior to moving Detroit I would have NEVER consider getting a gun , after living here 3 years I'm looking into getting my CCW :-[[ I live in the City limits in a pretty nice area , but when you hear about home break ins every other day I can't help but to think , if someone does break into my house . I KNOW FOR A FACT they are coming in armed . What choice do I have ? a baseball bat, golf clubs ?
I just don't want to take that chance :-[[ I have to protect our home and the people in it . I've thought about leaving the city again, but my family has been here for over 90 years and they just wont leave and now that I'm back I feel torn , I can't leave them here alone in . I can't leave a 86 year old and 66 year old woman in the city by their self.
We have been in our house since before I was born early 60's and like I said the neighborhood [[northwest/bagley)is still semi stable, but their has been petty theft happening lately. I know theft happens every where and no place is totally safe, but I want to know that if I call the police they will show up . Is that too much to ask? lately it seems so.
We have a right to feel safe in our neighborhood . I'm not against areas of the city hiring private police since it seems the police force we already pay for are out maned , overwhelmed or aren't up to the job.
Maybe the DPd should be place under a EM?
I feel like we are in a war zone and we the citizen of Detroit are basically on our own.
Detroit has the most potential of any city and I do see hope and LOVE the city but basic safety is key.
Frustrated and Torn.

The title is a bit misleading. It seems as though only six deals are completed, but the article does say the following, so more are coming:

"Federal funds are paying to renovate another nine homes for law enforcement, while another dozen officers and firefighters have signed up to begin the process, she said."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz1v3GSUVu1

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We've ALL [[from the top down) know the Detroit PD won't even show up half the time .I'm sure the police show up where they[[1500) choose to live when they call .
What are we paying for? we need to start completely over and require members of DPD to live in the city limits. If they don't like it I'm sure the police department where they are currently living is hiring ;-).

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The city can't do that , Engler when he was governor outlawed residency requirements.

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Originally Posted by Detroitdave

I LOVE THE CITY OF DETROIT AND WHAT IT COULD BE !, but
In my opinion, this speaks VOLUMES ! If the people who swear to protect and sever WONT live in the city even with a sweet deal like this WHAT MESSAGE DOES THIS SEND to the citizen left in the city.
This really bother me when I read it . If the city cant' persuade the people who are "suppose" to protect us to move into some of THE BEST areas of the city, it shows they have little or no faith in the city that pays their salary .

I know the state passed a law stating that people that work for the city didn't have to live in the city , in my opinion the people of Detroit are on the losing end of this arrangement .

If 1500 more cops were living in the city and paying property taxes, I would feel a little safer.

We've ALL [[from the top down) know the Detroit PD won't even show up half the time .I'm sure the police show up where they[[1500) choose to live when they call .
What are we paying for? we need to start completely over and require members of DPD to live in the city limits. If they don't like it I'm sure the police department where they are currently living is hiring ;-). [[sarcasms)
To be fair ,I'm sure there are some [[a very few) DP that are doing their best in a Job that is one of the toughest in the country , and before you all pile on , I wouldn't do their job, but they choose to do this , like the military which I was in. I've lived in several big cities around the country and world and visit many other cities and countries so I know how it works.
I just don't feel like I could really count on the DPD if I really needed them, I'm sorry this is just how I feel, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Every time you watch the news or read the news paper more people are talking the law into their own hands :-[[ It's like the wild west !

It's obvious many people in the city of Detroit feel the same way I do .ABANDONED. I do believe in the rights to bare arms, but prior to moving Detroit I would have NEVER consider getting a gun , after living here 3 years I'm looking into getting my CCW :-[[ I live in the City limits in a pretty nice area , but when you hear about home break ins every other day I can't help but to think , if someone does break into my house . I KNOW FOR A FACT they are coming in armed . What choice do I have ? a baseball bat, golf clubs ?
I just don't want to take that chance :-[[ I have to protect our home and the people in it . I've thought about leaving the city again, but my family has been here for over 90 years and they just wont leave and now that I'm back I feel torn , I can't leave them here alone in . I can't leave a 86 year old and 66 year old woman in the city by their self.
We have been in our house since before I was born early 60's and like I said the neighborhood [[northwest/bagley)is still semi stable, but their has been petty theft happening lately. I know theft happens every where and no place is totally safe, but I want to know that if I call the police they will show up . Is that too much to ask? lately it seems so.
We have a right to feel safe in our neighborhood . I'm not against areas of the city hiring private police since it seems the police force we already pay for are out maned , overwhelmed or aren't up to the job.
Maybe the DPd should be place under a EM?
I feel like we are in a war zone and we the citizen of Detroit are basically on our own.
Detroit has the most potential of any city and I do see hope and LOVE the city but basic safety is key.
Frustrated and Torn.

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Do you really believe that the police just "don't show up half the time" because that's the way THEY do it or want it? They don't show up because the 911 response time is slower than slow and there isn't enough manpower to go around. It's the management, not the officers who are the problem in Detroit.

I lived on a street in Detroit where there were two Detroit policemen living. Wonderful neighbors, great people...but when a police officer was needed because of a dispute or a domestic problem...no one could depend on them because they didn't want to get involved. If I were a Detroit Police Officer, do you really believe that I would want to live on a street in Detroit and have everyone there know I was a cop? Absolutely not! The residents are afraid of the thugs coming back and killing them for "snitching"....what would happen to a cops home or family?

Yes, they choose to to the job of a Detroit Police Officer and they should be able to choose where they live as well.

If there was a cop on every corner, at every intersection in Detroit, crime would still go on. Their presence can be a small deterrent, but there could never be enough officers walking or driving around to stop these mindless, snake thugs from going around and car jacking, robbing, killing people. If you want better service, start complaining to the top management in Detroit, the ones who spend [[or steal) the taxpayer money...they are the ones who make the difference in how things work in Detroit, the judges, change laws, etc.

There should be stricter laws to allow the police to stop anyone they think is suspicious. Instead, the criminals have certain rights and the victims have NO rights. You can't step on toes, yet the victims go unprotected. You can't profile, yet the victims are singled out every day and murdered in cold blood. Give the police the ability to handcuff the thugs rather than handcuffing the cops!

Yes, you absolutely have a right to feel safe in your neighborhood and that is why you and all Detroiters need to take it to the Mayor and the Chief of Police and the Council. They are the ones who set policy; they are the ones who close precincts, they are the ones who don't get the cars fixed or outfit the police with what they need in order to fight crime. A new police officer today starts at $27,000/yr. If you get new officers in Detroit, they are there because they want to serve and protect Detroiters...not for the money or the glory, because there is no money to be made and certainly no glory.

Frustrated and Torn, as well.

If I were a Detroit Police Officer, do you really believe that I would want to live on a street in Detroit and have everyone there know I was a cop? Absolutely not! The residents are afraid of the thugs coming back and killing them for "snitching"....what would happen to a cops home or family?

Nailed it. Firebombs or rape. And if you don't believe it look at Charlie LeDuff's story here on the sort of person Judge Vonda Evans let out of jail on $500 bond one recent week-end. Mr. Torture the Snitches himself. Who wants that for his/her family:

Problem number one in Detroit is that nobody knows anything. Problem number two is we have a bunch of bad dudes marauding through the city without an consequences. Case in point? Rafael "Ra-Ra" Dean, who stands accused of torturing men with hot forks over a pair of stolen tennis shoes.
His latest escapade? Police allege that last week Dean was annoyed with a neighbor who had the gull to tell the cops about a domestic violence incident in the neighborhood.
According to the arrest report, four of Dean's guys beat the witness to a pulp while Dean blasted a .45 past his head.
Also according to that report, Dean said, "This is how we do thing around here."
Dean was locked up.
Now, unbelievably, a circuit court judge not even involved in Dean's case ordered him released for the weekend on $500 bail. This has cops freaked out because Dean is one bad dude. His arrest record is pages long.
"2008 -- murder ... 2009 -- torture, mayhem ... four prior convictions ... three drug convictions for which he went to prison -- separate ones ... one firearm conviction for which he went to prison," said Lieutenant Chuck Flannagan with the Detroit Police Department. "And now we have a fresh case where he did an assault with intent to do great bodily harm."
Problem number three in Detroit? The lieutenant says it is lenient judges.

Did anyone really believe these cops would now sacrifice everything they have in the suburbs to live in the city?

And I question the 6 cops who did take the incentive. It's quite possible they took the incentive just to rent the home out or carpetbag while they still live in the suburbs.

And also, I highly doubt even half of the Detroit police force lived in the city before the incentives came around. Many of them were likely already renting out their homes, or carpetbagging in the hopes that the neighborhood will eventually experience some type of renaissance while actually living in the suburbs.

From what I am reading and hearing, people blame Detroit's crime on the Police, or lack thereof. The Police [[and I mean the ones on the streets) are limited as to what they can and cannot do. The police are the workers who do as they are told, to be where they need to be, to sit, stand, walk or guard. Godbee said last April regarding the 33 new recruits who graduated from the academy that he was going to put them to work immediately....I wish LeDuff would ask him where they all are today?

The Police on the streets have certain discretionary powers, they are required to make an arrest for certain crimes, such as murders, felonies, domestic violence, and DUI but the rest is left up to the discretion of the officer. However, once the arrest has been made and the thug is in jail or custody, then it's up to the judges to decide whether or not to keep them.

This guy, Ra-Ra, is a perfect example. He has absolutely nothing to lose because it's been shown time and time again that he can hurt or murder people and he is immune to justice. He would no more think twice about shooting a police officer than I would to stomp a spider.

All this talk from Bing and Godbee about lack of funds is a bunch of bull pucky. When a City can spend $65,000 on an 8 year old Dodge Intrepid lease and think nothing of it, and is losing $4 million a year on other car leases, how can they justify to the people that there just isn't any money? How can Bing hire a CFO at about $225,000/yr and have that same CFO turn around and say "there is no money"....a bunch of hypocrits.

Like I said earlier I completely respect what the police have to do for their job, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say "when a majority of the police wont even live in the city, we feel abandon and on our own"
How can there be a connection with the police when they live in the city. I believe there is a lost in trust between the police and citizens of Detroit.
The cops come in do their shift and head back out to their life out in the burbs.
I'm not blaming them for wanting a safe life for their wives and kids , but so do the 700.000 people that pay their salaries .
The bad guys know the cops wont show up
Just recently the city council will have to not only move into the city , but live into the district they represent . I'm sure they thrilled about that !

Get a load of this. The second precinct, 20th and W. Vernor, 1965. I count 216 police officers and brass. Evenly spread around the clock, with some overlap in the evening hours. This was just one of thirteen precincts in the city, not to count the Tactical Services Section, who worked the entire city, Motor Traffic, Accident Prevention Bureau, and dozens of other units who served around the clock.

What is left in Detroit today is pitiful. That's all I can say.
And, yes. I lived in the city. Lindsay and 7 Mile, 1959-1971, Houghton and 7 mile, 1971 - 1977, and Warwick and Grand River, 1977 - 1984. I was proud to serve the city; I was proud to live in the city.

[[No, I didn't make this collage. I was transferred from #2 to the Motor Traffic Section between shootings and missed it all.)

I knew when they dragged out this program with all that public relations fanfare that it wasn't going anywhere. Too many people in power in this city think that Detroit's problems can be massaged with some new image and pr work. Detroit's reality is the problem and it's so massive it can't be pretended away - even with economic incentives.

The key to Detroit's revival is simple: public safety and public schools. Unfortunately there is no meaningful solution in sight. And I don't blame the police. The real problem here is that this city produces far too many people who have to be either monitored, supervised, or restrained in order to respect other's rights. A democracy can only afford to have about 3 - 9 percent of its population requiring that level of control or supervision. In Detroit that elements constitutes about 30% of the population especially of those under 30.

We have two options: anarchy or a police state. I'm placing my bets on anarchy, in the form of the ongoing war on civilized life that is taking place on the streets of Detroit every day.

The sheer numbers of folks with seriously character formation issues in Detroit will overwhelm whatever structures you put in place.

Right On Ray!

Human nature lends us to care about the area closest to us the most. While I cannot directly accuse the officers who chose to live outside the city of not caring about it, their own personal involvement outside likely does lend towards their felling it's "just a job."

As the saying goes, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

The title is a bit misleading. It seems as though only six deals are completed, but the article does say the following, so more are coming:

"Federal funds are paying to renovate another nine homes for law enforcement, while another dozen officers and firefighters have signed up to begin the process, she said."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz1v3GSUVu1

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I find it telling that no one's responded to this yet. Have none of you ever built a business from scratch? Or worked on a startup company? Or been on a sales campaign?

This isn't the kind of thing where you make the announcement and the 400 people bring their families back into the city 4 months later.

Yes, it's slow. But 6 complete plus the 12 in progress over 15 months shows that demand is there. They should study what were the common components with them and whether or not aspects of the program should change. Also good information would be how long their decision making process was and what were the tipping factors. Or whether the trend is growing [[5 in the last 3 months vs. 1 in the first 8 weeks) or steady [[6 every 5 months)

The whole thing still might flop, but part of the problem is all about expectations. We're experimenting. We're investing. No one thing is going to work by itself. And all things effect each other, so it's hard to isolate your variables.

Welcome to the world of entrepreneurship.

Unfortunately, we're in an environment that needs entrpreneurs....but we're surrounded by severe suffering, a people who crave economic security, and a dearth of the intelligent, creative, and motivated.

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Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I find it telling that no one's responded to this yet. Have none of you ever built a business from scratch? Or worked on a startup company? Or been on a sales campaign?

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This isn't really analgous to any of those things.

This is a massive subsidy program where homes are being given for half their estimated market value, following significant renovations amounting to 4-6 times their estimated market value.

It's basically a giveaway. And the cops don't want the homes, even at absurdly low prices, and in the safest and best Detroit neighborhoods.

This seems to be yet another program where the city puts the cart before the horse. Instead of improving conditions to stimulate demand, they try and stimulate demand to improve conditions. It has yet to work.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

This isn't really analgous to any of those things.

This is a massive subsidy program where homes are being given for half their estimated market value, following significant renovations amounting to 4-6 times their estimated market value.

It's basically a giveaway. And the cops don't want the homes, even at absurdly low prices, and in the safest and best Detroit neighborhoods.

This seems to be yet another program where the city puts the cart before the horse. Instead of improving conditions to stimulate demand, they try and stimulate demand to improve conditions. It has yet to work.

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Ok. But how quickly can this be expected to work? Even if you were a cop and thought it was a good idea, how many things need to happen before you act? First you have to come to the conclusion that you're actually going to do it. That right there is a 3-6 month process. Then figuring out and transitioning your family, schools if that's a factor. Then there's the question of what you're going to do with the house you're in.

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I agree that they need to improve conditions to stimulate demand. What I'm saying is that it's not clear whether or not the cops do or don't want the homes, because even if they do want them, the timeline to get a pipeline full of leads and takers is gonna take awhile.

When you live in a safe enviornment, your kids go to schools that produce graduation rates above average, you have places to worship, stores readily available to shop at, you can walk on the streets at night, you can ride bikes, have playgrounds, pay a lower tax, get police and fire protection, garbage picked up on time, don't have to listen to gunfire every night....those are just some of the things you don't want to leave where you live now and come to Detroit and live. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out and no matter what Detroit gives away at the additional cost to the taxpayers, you wouldn't put your family in jeopardy for a "free home". There are no safe neighborhoods in Detroit anymore and if you can find a block or two that is safe, it's getting to and from those few blocks that is the problem.

Cops, firefighters, or any City employee who lives outside of Detroit would never move back into Detroit with families, end of story.

Instead of building new homes to offer or fixing up old ones, Detroit should clean up the crime rate, make itself a safer place to live, get rid of the crud and thugs that have taken over the City, the Mayor, the Chief of Police and everyone else. Detroit has another name right now, "the OK Corral" where gunfights, lawlessness and anarchy prevails. There is no law in Detroit and it's not the fault of the Police who are on the streets, it's the fault of the administration, and until that is addressed, nothing good is going to happen.

If I was a betting man and a fly on the wall at one of the cops house,
I bet you a million dollars most of the wives of those cops are saying, HELL NO ! I'm not taking my kids down to the city to live and go to school in the city of Detroit , are you nuts !
So in the interested of not getting a Divorce they are going to stay put LOL ;-)

These are the people that know the real deal on the streets of Detroit. Even with all of the media attention lately I would guess you only here a small percentage of what is really going on.

For them the decision process is made on the streets every day.
Why bring your family into it?

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Originally Posted by evergreen

The real problem here is that this city produces far too many people who have to be either monitored, supervised, or restrained in order to respect other's rights. A democracy can only afford to have about 3 - 9 percent of its population requiring that level of control or supervision. In Detroit that elements constitutes about 30% of the population especially of those under 30.

We have two options: anarchy or a police state. I'm placing my bets on anarchy, in the form of the ongoing war on civilized life that is taking place on the streets of Detroit every day.

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Honestly, when given the choice between the two, I'll choose police state.

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Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Honestly, when given the choice between the two,I'll choose police state.

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Be careful what you wish for...

I just want law and order.

Between the TSA, school kids having to go through Metal Detectors every morning to get an education, 6 year old kids getting arrested, old men getting shot by police officers who entered his property illegally [[without a warrant) the NDAA [[which authorizes the indefinite detention of American citizens without trial or jury if they're suspected as terrorists) and the bill Obama recently just passed to authorized teh flying of drones above us, we're already in a Police State at the National Level.

It doesn't have to be Anarchy or a Police State, just an environment where criminals know they WILL be charged and put to trail if they do the wrong thing.

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Originally Posted by Wheels

These are the people that know the real deal on the streets of Detroit. Even with all of the media attention lately I would guess you only here a small percentage of what is really going on.

For them the decision process is made on the streets every day.
Why bring your family into it?

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Absolutely right.

If my kids are doing well in school, have good friends, follow the rules, go to church, and want to make something of their lives, why on earth would I ever consider bringing them down to the hood, to come into contact with drug dealers, car jackers, thieves and murderers. Why would I have to send them to a school that has to have a guard walking through the halls and they have to pass through a metal detector before they attend class!!!

The Police are in Detroit to protect and serve and they try their hardest to, but their hands are tied. They can only do what they are told to do, can only be where they are told to be. So, they do their jobs, to the best of their ability...go home where they know their family is safe and protect them to the best of their ability!

Bings idea is ludicrious.

PR move to salve the worries of poor slobs stuck in the city. Problem is ...they know better and cops aren't crazy.