Where were these pictures taken in Grosse Pointe? 1960's & 70's

Wayne State has an unbelievable collection of old photos of Detroit from many different centuries, many probably all ready know about it, the "Virtual Motor City".

Anyway, I stumbled across some old pictures of Grosse Pointe streets from the 1960's and 70's, with which look like a canopy of Elm Trees[[?) covering the streets, the photographs are very beautiful.

By looking at the pictures can anyone tell which exact streets these photographs were taken? And if these beautiful pictures still resemble the same scene today with the beautiful, which I think, are Elm Tree canopies?

According to the photographs titles, the pictures where taken in "Grosse Pointe", which I would assume means the City of Grosse Pointe, not the Farms, Park, Woods, or Shores.

Grosse Pointe: taken in the 1960's:
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=1;view=image

Grosse Pointe: taken in the 1970's:
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=1;view=image

Here is a link to the website, the WSU virtual motor city has some awesome photographs:
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...;g=localhistic

Most of the far east side of Detroit had elm tree canopies just like that until Dutch elm disease moved in and most of them were cut down. I lived at 7 Mile and Kelly and the streets there were just like those in the pictures.

I have a fiend who swears they chopped down all the trees so the police helicoptors could see better. He's about 50 and lives in the New Center Area.

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Originally Posted by ddf313

I have a fiend who swears they chopped down all the trees so the police helicoptors could see better. He's about 50 and lives in the New Center Area.

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Damn fiends will say anything, huh.

Depends on what type of fiend.

Europe actually got hit with the Dutch Elm disease before the U.S. They had tons of dead elm trees and used a lot of them to make shipping crates during the 30's. When the crates began arriving here and in Canada, it infected the trees everywhere. Were there even many police helicopters in the 40's and 50's?

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Originally Posted by old guy

Europe actually got hit with the Dutch Elm disease before the U.S. They had tons of dead elm trees and used a lot of them to make shipping crates during the 30's. When the crates began arriving here and in Canada, it infected the trees everywhere. Were there even many police helicopters in the 40's and 50's?

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From the Detroit News:

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During the early 1950s Detroit lost only 2,000 trees per year, a small enough number to keep the crews at an even pace, and to help spread the cost out over a longer period.
In 1965 a drought hit, adding more stress to the trees. The removal pace hit about 10,000 trees per year, until 1972, when the city had taken down 100,000 trees over the previous 21 years.


From The Detroit News: http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history...#ixzz0k5TBXlvF

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As one who was relatively familiar with the Pointes in that time period, even I can't say I recognize exactly where those pictures were taken or even in which of the five Pointes they were taken [[though I think we can rule out Grosse Pointe Woods because....well just because I think the Woods, being relatively more recently developed, probably wouldn't have had trees that size by the 70's and also because I don't think the Woods had streetlight poles like that.

Three clues - the streetlight poles, the length of the blocks, and the fact that it looks like the streets don't end on the Lake St. Clair waterfront [[of course, they could simply have been shot facing away from the water) - lead me to believe that the most likely location of the top photo is on streets running perpendicular to Jefferson/Lakeshore, and in descending order of likelihood based on what I can best estimate the depth of those front lawns to be, would be either in Grosse Pointe Park - Whittier or one of the streets southwest of it - i.e. Audubon, Trombley, etc. or in Grosse Pointe Shores, one of the streets in the area of Oxford or Renaud, that area.

2) The second picture also looks like it could be in the "Park-Whittier-Or-South" area as above, or, because of the relative narrowness, possibly in Grosse Pointe Shores - Hawthorne or one of the streets north of it - i.e. Hampton or Roslyn.

If somebody more familiar with them who really knows can identify them with certainly, I'll be interested in seeing how close I came. :)

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Originally Posted by EMG

As one who was relatively familiar with the Pointes in that time period, even I can't say I recognize exactly where those pictures were taken or even in which of the five Pointes they were taken [[though I think we can rule out Grosse Pointe Woods because....well just because I think the Woods, being relatively more recently developed, probably wouldn't have had trees that size by the 70's and also because I don't think the Woods had streetlight poles like that.

Three clues - the streetlight poles, the length of the blocks, and the fact that it looks like the streets don't end on the Lake St. Clair waterfront [[of course, they could simply have been shot facing away from the water) - lead me to believe that the most likely location of the top photo is on streets running perpendicular to Jefferson/Lakeshore, and in descending order of likelihood based on what I can best estimate the depth of those front lawns to be, would be either in Grosse Pointe Park - Whittier or one of the streets southwest of it - i.e. Audubon, Trombley, etc. or in Grosse Pointe Shores, one of the streets in the area of Oxford or Renaud, that area.

2) The second picture also looks like it could be in the "Park-Whittier-Or-South" area as above, or, because of the relative narrowness, possibly in Grosse Pointe Shores - Hawthorne or one of the streets north of it - i.e. Hampton or Roslyn.

If somebody more familiar with them who really knows can identify them with certainly, I'll be interested in seeing how close I came. :)

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Thanks for your excellent detailed response, I have been looking at some of the Grosse Pointe streets in Google Maps street view but I haven't found any street that looks particularly like either of the two in the photographs. So much changes in 40-50 years that these streets may look completely different today, so it may be close to impossible to find the exact view today.

Some of the views on University Pl in the City of Grosse Pointe look a little bit like the two photographs, but it doesn't match up exactly.

I don't know if it's me, but it seems like more Elm Trees survive to this day in the Grosse Pointes than any other city in Michigan, for sure metro Detroit.

I'll keep searching around on Google street view.

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Originally Posted by old guy

Europe actually got hit with the Dutch Elm disease before the U.S. They had tons of dead elm trees and used a lot of them to make shipping crates during the 30's. When the crates began arriving here and in Canada, it infected the trees everywhere. Were there even many police helicopters in the 40's and 50's?

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From my understanding the Pointes were able to hold on to their elm trees longer because of an aggressive pesiticide program and due to the fact that the trees were further apart as compared to Detroit's thus reducing the spread of the elm beetle.

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Originally Posted by Traveller1

Thanks for your excellent detailed response, I have been looking at some of the Grosse Pointe streets in Google Maps street view but I haven't found any street that looks particularly like either of the two in the photographs. So much changes in 40-50 years that these streets may look completely different today, so it may be close to impossible to find the exact view today.

Some of the views on University Pl in the City of Grosse Pointe look a little bit like the two photographs, but it doesn't match up exactly.

I don't know if it's me, but it seems like more Elm Trees survive to this day in the Grosse Pointes than any other city in Michigan, for sure metro Detroit.

I'll keep searching around on Google street view.

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You're welcome; I do know my Grosse Pointe because I am a long distance runner and bicyclist who spent many many hours over many many years pounding the pavement of just about every block in all five cities. :) I really have hardly any excuse for not being able to pull off the top of my head EXACTLY which blocks both of those pictures were taken in, but, alas, I guess years have gone by and/or [[heaven forbid) I'm getting old....so...well....

University Place would certainly be another candidate for a similar-looking street, but, like you said, doesn't match exactly. Even if it were, I would say only the second of the two pictures looks like it could possibly be University - the top one is simply too wide a street.

I don't believe you'll find many if any streets that look as completely forested as that today. However, there is one place I can think of that USED to be - in fact at first glance the first picture at the top reminded me of it but even it didn't match - and that is Kenwood street in Grosse Pointe Farms, which was also commonly referred to as "The Nun's Walk."

I just looked up that block on Google Earth streetview, and the current view pales in comparison to your picture, and even in comparison to my own memory. But alongside one side of that street is [[or was) a perfect double row of trees, which apparently prior to the development of that street formed a trail leading to the St. Paul's / Grosse Pointe Academy area, hence, "The Nun's Walk." That is why I say your picture didn't match and why I know it wasn't it - and that is because the true "Nun's Walk" is not centered on both sides of the street proper, but only alongside the north side of it.

You can check it out for yourself in Google Earth by going to the area around Kenwood and Kercheval in Grosse Pointe Farms.

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Originally Posted by kellyroad

From my understanding the Pointes were able to hold on to their elm trees longer because of an aggressive pesiticide program and due to the fact that the trees were further apart as compared to Detroit's thus reducing the spread of the elm beetle.

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Not sure how much of a factor the distance between trees was, but I can definitely confirm that the Pointes were aggressive about doing as much as possible as far as pesticides.

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Originally Posted by kellyroad

From my understanding the Pointes were able to hold on to their elm trees longer because of an aggressive pesiticide program and due to the fact that the trees were further apart as compared to Detroit's thus reducing the spread of the elm beetle.

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This is true, and they still lost the battle. Those treatments cost a lot of money, as does removing such a large tree. I know a guy who lost four at once.

Looking at this again and after more consideration, I'm going to retract one of my earlier suggestions and propose a new additional one, especially as far as the top picture. I earlier mentioned Oxford and Renaud in Grosse Pointe Shores; thinking again I believe the blocks I had in mind actually had slight curves in them and therefore would be ruled out.

On the other hand, if you consider the streets running parallel to Cadieux, and going south of Cadieux, and then consider the blocks of those streets within one to two blocks on the Grosse Pointe side of Mack, I think there would be a number of blocks that may have looked like that back in the days of stately elms. I don't remember ANY still being that canopied by the early 80's when I started going through those neighborhoods, but certainly the streets Harvard, Grayton, Bishop, and again continuing through the Whittier-and-south blocks, if you assume the photo was shot from perhaps the intersection with Vernor and facing towards Mack. [[Or maybe at the corner of Kercheval facing towards Mack or even at the corner of Charlevoix or Goethe facing towards Jefferson).

Here's a link to a larger version of the winter scene. It might make it easier to see the houses:Grosse Pointe Elms in Winter

Here's the other picture slightly larger. It's really hard to see but it looks like there are some cars in the distance that are substantially older than the ones in the winter scene.
Grosse Pte Elms II

From the photo descriptions, the winter scene was taken on 1/29/1974 and the summer scene was photographed on 8/6/1965.

If you have Google Earth, type in 766 Harcourt and get the photo view...it's pretty close.

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Originally Posted by Buy American

If you have Google Earth, type in 766 Harcourt and get the photo view...it's pretty close.

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I looked it up...it does look very close, it looks like all of the street trees on this block of Grosse Pointe Park are Silver Maple Trees and not the rows of Elm Trees that are in the photograph. The Elms in the two pictures were probably cut down in the 1980's as many of you have suggested.

Don't get me wrong though....the Silver Maple Trees that line this street are very beautiful as well.

Thanks for the post!

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Originally Posted by EMG

Looking at this again and after more consideration, I'm going to retract one of my earlier suggestions and propose a new additional one, especially as far as the top picture. I earlier mentioned Oxford and Renaud in Grosse Pointe Shores; thinking again I believe the blocks I had in mind actually had slight curves in them and therefore would be ruled out.

On the other hand, if you consider the streets running parallel to Cadieux, and going south of Cadieux, and then consider the blocks of those streets within one to two blocks on the Grosse Pointe side of Mack, I think there would be a number of blocks that may have looked like that back in the days of stately elms. I don't remember ANY still being that canopied by the early 80's when I started going through those neighborhoods, but certainly the streets Harvard, Grayton, Bishop, and again continuing through the Whittier-and-south blocks, if you assume the photo was shot from perhaps the intersection with Vernor and facing towards Mack. [[Or maybe at the corner of Kercheval facing towards Mack or even at the corner of Charlevoix or Goethe facing towards Jefferson).

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I looked at many of your suggestions and they all look like they could be those two blocks. If you could see more of the houses in the two photos that would probably give it away since many of the homes in the Pointes have not changed a whole lot, even in 40-50 years, but they are mostly cut out of the pictures.

I also heard that all of the Pointes really tried to combat against the Dutch Elm Disease in the 1960's and 70's, but lost a lot of them even with all the work and money poured into the cause.

I read an article a few days ago in the Grosse Pointe News that said the City of Grosse Pointe was cutting the injections that they give the Ash Trees out of their budget, which basically means a death sentence to all of the still living Ash Trees in the City of Grosse Pointe. They didn't mention anything about Grosse Pointe Park, but did say that Grosse Pointe Farms is going to continue to treat their city owned Ash Trees against the Emerald Ash Borer.

Here is a couple of recent articles:

http://www.grossepointenews.com/Arti...e_of_this.html

http://www.grossepointenews.com/Arti...s_for_ash.html

This article shows everything the City of Grosse Pointe is cutting out of their budget, which sadly includes Ash Tree injections:
http://www.grossepointenews.com/Arti..._a_budget.html

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Originally Posted by Traveller1

I looked at many of your suggestions and they all look like they could be those two blocks.

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Yep.

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Originally Posted by Traveller1

If you could see more of the houses in the two photos that would probably give it away since many of the homes in the Pointes have not changed a whole lot, even in 40-50 years, but they are mostly cut out of the pictures.

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With the exception of a few memorably distinctive houses that I remember even now, I don't think I would remember enough specific houses to have identified the block. Unfortunately, even after looking at jcole's links to the originals, I still don't have any more of a clue than those I already suggested.

Oops. Although my fRiend could have been a fiend at one time. But he was certain that the police had the trees torn down so they could see the streets. Of course I laughed at the notion that a beautiful city would tear down trees to catch crooks. He was born in 1960. When did helicopters become part of the police force?

If you are really interested in finding out the streets in these images I would suggest that you go down to Wayne State or the DPL and look up the articles they ran with in the Detroit News microfilm. The caption information that appears with the negatives on the Virtual Motor City are often not as detailed as the information that runs with the print version. Usually you can find the photos in an issue 1-3 days after the date that appears on the negative, although sometimes you might have to go a week or two further if they shot it ahead of time for a special feature. Good luck!

This is what a lot of the city looked like back then. Much of Detroit and surrounding communities were planted with beautiful rows of elms. Double rows in a lot of neighborhoods with larger lots.

I certainly remember Indian Village streets looking just like this into the mid-'60s, and Jefferson-Chalmers into the '70s. But you could hear the sounds of the chain saws and woodchippers approaching closer every spring, and eventually they reached our blocks...

The winter photo was taken on University between Maumee & St. Paul. The view is towards Jefferson. University between Maumee is known as University Place a curving one way road. [[The whole road is know known as University Place). If you notice there is a car parked on the left side of the street. On University Place the parking was on the left side until about 1977 when the city changed the parking to the right side.