http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...alsh/20184917/
Nice.
Printable View
Attachment 25145
Oh wow. The architecture actually really compliments the Fox and Fillmore too! should make people happy!
This is awesome news!
[[Although the giant little caesars logo is a bit much) still overall i'm ecstatic!
I guess this is a nice step in the right direction from Illitch and Co. Too bad they couldn't rehab a building in their catalog, say, the Detroit Life Building on the other end of Columbia street. But oh well.
It's always bothered me a bit that there weren't any Little Caesar's downtown. Glad they're putting up a flagship store as part of this.
Nice to see a proposal for in-fill on a parking lot. This being Illitch/olympia...I'll believe it's actually getting built when construction starts.
It's smoke and mirrors. They're gonna put this up and knock down the Eddystone and Harbor Light. Then then can say they have turned parking lots into usable, taxable space.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
If past is prologue, the only thing we'll get is today's proposal to build, some pretty drawings, AND the demo of the Eddystone and the Harbor Light.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg19
Perfect spot for some infill. Applause. Now let's see about the empty blocks across Woodward and across Park from here.
As to Eddystone et al., I hope that our elected officials and others will put their foot down. They can choose to control things here and lot let the Illitches tear them down [[assuming this is or becomes their intention). I am looking at the Council and all preservation stakeholders to be our champions here.
They wouldn't have pulled all their employees out of work from Downtown and bussed in their employees from Farmington Hills for the announcement and celebration afterwards if it was not going to happen. This is the real deal. It is happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
I agree with Detroit. It is happening. I'm glad to see that Illitch is finally moving on some of these properties. I still think that a lot of his recent development plans are smoke and mirrors, but I am encouraged by this.
How many people do they have in Farmington Hills? And will those folks be the ones relocating?
http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...roit/20192269/
here's a story on the architecture of the new HQ.
More like an excuse to tear down the Hotel Blenheim building.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg19
This is huge. I'm glad to see some missing streetwall on Woodward filled in.
I wonder if the store will sell $5 pizza's on game days? I doubt it.
Well.. due to the secretiveness of the company I don't want to quote a number but Blue Line Foodservice Distribution is Headquartered at the building that was once the Little Caesars corporate office and as the article states, Little Caesars has employees working out of its sister companies as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by tkelly1986
I am hoping that it will sell slices and have ample seating so the employees can sit and eat without needing to take it back to their desks.Quote:
Originally Posted by 48307
Only SEVEN corporate headquarters have been built in Detroit since 1950. That was kind of a shocking stat to me. But don't let anyone tell you that businesses create jobs haha
When the Ilitch family first began operating the Fox Theater after its renovation was completed, they operated a sit-down, upscale pizza restaurant in the storefront just to the north, for quite some time. So really they are bringing pizza back to the neighborhood; it was there for a while. I don't recall when it closed, or if they said why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan
Good news!
Are they really going to put a giant Little Caesars logo on top of the Fox? That would be awful.
http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...2/lilcaes.jpeg
what, if anything, is going to happen with the United Artists building? That needs rehab.
We'll know progress is being made downtown when the Freep writer stops using phrases like "when the tower rises against the skyline" for an 8 story building.
That or the Detroit Life would be a wonderful spot for...a Little Caesars HQ! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypestyles
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkytofu
holy moly i didn't see that. there is NO way, i repeat NO way the city council can let that happen...
That was IIRC... American Pizza Cafe [[or some name like that)... and it closed for the same reason that all the restaurants in the Fox Building and Comerica Park McDonalds closed... lack of foot traffic during off game/theatre days. With Ilitch wiping out so many potential residential buildings [[Wolverine Hotel, YWCA) for parking lots... there's little foot traffic due to a sea of parking in the area.Quote:
Originally Posted by professorscott
Is it really any worse than the F O X spire that dwarfs it by comparison? It's the corporate logo of the company that owns the building.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartanDawg
It is funny how if something tacky has been around for a long time, that it becomes historic!Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
But I agree with the others, they need to leave the logos off the fox.
I think the plan is to have the Little Caesars guy dance back and forth across the buildings while shouting Pizza! Pizza! to onlookers below. Should be pretty cool.
The thing I think is more shocking is the lack of Little Caesars signage currently. There is little indication that they occupy the Fox now.
I'll be positive. I like the fact that a hole in the Woodward streetscape will be filled, and I like the design. And that there is more room for more employees.
I like it also. This is a very important Woodward streetscape block.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast
There is probably nothing which makes posters upset is surface parking on Woodward.
When I've posted [[frequently) on the arena plans I believe I suggested that "Phase I" [[that a phase I concocted with an artificial deadline of summer 2017, when the arena is completed) would be say the arena, a hotel on the corner of Woodward/Fisher, THIS IN-FILL building, two buildings [[residential) on Woodward where Comerica Park parking is now, and a few more buildings such as an office building on Woodward at Temple
The big thing being that the Woodward streetscape from Grand Circus to Temple [[or Charlotte) be complete.
Do you think Times Square is awful? I personally am not so fond of the design, but the idea of making one visual building by re-creating a Fox Building column on the left to match the column on the right -- both with a relatively little logo does make sense and looks ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkytofu
the fox spire, although much gaudier now, is a throwback to what used to be on top of the building. the caesars hockey pucks have no historical roots and shouldnt be on top of the fox at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Without the Little Caesar, there very likely wouldn't be a Fox theater.Quote:
Originally Posted by southen
so thats a license for tacky awful signage? ive suffered the consequences of mr. illitch's pizza, the least he can do is keep the fox theater looking classy.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Isn't Ilitch Holdings the entity that actually owns the Fox? Maybe Olympia Entertainment? I don't think it's technically Little Caesars.
For some reason I thought the spire was a restoration of an original architectural detail of the theater. Is that not true?Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Probably not the case... the building was owned by Chuck Forbes before the city arm twisted him to selling it to the Ilitch's. Not a single Forbes owned building has come down under his ownership... and there are plenty of his buildings downtown.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
It sort of is... there was a tall rooftop sign on the Fox Building when it was built in 1928. Other downtown theatre's had even larger rooftop signage... the Madison and Michigan Theatre's were two....Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
Where did you find that picture? The article showed only a truncated version of it. I searched but could only find a photo of the picture you posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkytofu
Edit: Ah! Crain's
LMAO but seriously this is great news.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
Viewing SpartanDawg's image....
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/attachm...5&d=1418229590
... a couple of things to notice... there is a median in the middle of Woodward showing here.... not seen or heard of anything about such a change... and with the parades on Woodward, I doubt it would be implemented.
Also I notice that this building is set back a bit from Woodward... somewhat back from the streetwall that the Francis Palms Building [[Fillmore Theatre) and Fox Theatre Building have.
I do like the "historic touch" to this building, and that skybridge is a satisfying touch with a bit of historic flair.
As Rjlj mentioned... this will likely mean the demise of the small 3 story Blenheim Apartments Building [[still boarded up) on Park Ave. But I do like how the Columbia St. pedestrian zone will likely tie Woodward to Park Ave. The side streets [[Elizabeth, Columbia, Montcalm) have always been pedestrian unfriendly, due in great part to the long footprints cast by the [[razed) Adams, Fillmore and Fox Theatres. By opening up a connection between Woodward and Park Ave., this should be a win-win for Park Ave. establishments.
This streetscape along Columbia is the 2nd time the Ilitch's have proposed developing this long block stretch of roadway. Back in 1999 the Ilitch's proposed an "Agora" or marketplace along that road... with a Hard Rock Cafe on Woodward where the facade of the new building will be. But that never came to fruition, and Hard Rock went elsewhere downtown. But perhaps now is a more opportune time for developing this stretch of Columbia.
But the Ilitch's also need to dedicate some resources to the Fine Arts Building facade and United Artists complex [[as well as the Life Building on Park Ave). With Grand Circus Park getting its' second restore tower... more needs to be done to fix up the Ilitch properties there....
I recall a few months ago the Ilitches saying they wanted to rebuild the I75 bridge to allow more stores and have the arena really mesh with Foxtown. However, it appears the new I75 bridge they are building isn't taking into account? Was this just an empty promise or is this still feasible? Seems like they should have rebuilt the bridge for M1 with the Ilitch plan for retail in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkytofu
I've been very curious as well... from all of their renderings it seems they're only going to put retail on the West side of Woodward... which is still better than nothing. I'm sure they're still going to do it though because Illitch did make a point to mention it specifically in all of his interviews.
as you can see below there is retail over I75 on the west side of woodward only
Attachment 25151
They did.Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkytofu
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...a71bb5440fd3b2
https://www.facebook.com/M1RAIL/phot...5947508530858/
There's 6 pillars there. The original bridge had only 5 supporting it.
There was 8 actually-3 for the northbound lanes, then 2 for the left-turn lane and finally 3 for the southbound lanes. These are from a Google Street View image taken two months ago, right when the southbound side was about to be demolished.Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian
I hear they plan to call it the Ron Illich building
Detroit needs its own Times Square. More companies need to move downtown and elsewhere in the city, east and west.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtburb
so wait if there's 6 being added currently, and half the bridge is still up. wouldn't that bring the total up to around 10? up from 8?
not sure how many are still currently up i'm just guessing.
No. The Fox had a huge 'blade' sign on the Woodward Facade [[and a smaller blade on Montcalm). The roof tower was added around WWII. It is in none of the original Manning Bros. photos at opening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Note the Caesar logo on the SW corner of the new office building. Suggests that there may be an effort to address Columbia & the west.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
Is there any indication about the dear Blenheim Apts? Wouldn't be a great loss, but it does make the block 'mixed use'.
Yea. I was kinda of lazy in explaining it, but the half of the bridge still up has 3 pillars supporting it. Assuming they rebuild it unchanged or with more [[or even less) then it probably means the bridge is going to be holding weight differently, I would think.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartanDawg
Another Pizza Pizza Building in front of Woodward with hollow mega parking lots in the back. Sounds like a thinking of Mike Illitch.
They're moving from the Fox to a new building. I don't see what the controversy is all about. They're already downtown.
They're also consolidating operations from other areas as well. I believe Farmington and a couple other places were mentioned, plus they are going to add people as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago48
Great news overall, but I think we are all collectively waiting for the announcements on other major buildings in the "entertainment district" [[United Artists, Life Building, Fine Arts Facade).
there was a little casears in the Milliner Center for years, it mite still be there, didnt have the $5.00 pizza though
Exactly what Mikeg19 said.
It's great news. There's concern-- a better word than controversy-- re the overall development of the area: will Olympia fulfill its promises, and will they tear down more buildings in doing so?
The only "controversy" with this recent news is whether they are gonna put Little Caeser's signs on the Fox Theatre. While I think that's a scary prospect, I doubt they actually intend it.
With the Illiches and Gilbert sinking a bunch of dough and creating all the interest in rebuilding the downtown area to attract new residents and visitors, I have yet to see any interest toward public safety. There once was 7 firehouses with 12 active in service fire companies and not to forget the EMS units that used to serve the downtown & near downtown areas. Now there is one with a single engine company at Park & Montcalm. Take a good look at whats been built or revamped and whats going to be built. Given the shortage of daily manning and fire company brown outs, where will the needed responders be coming from should a normally busy day or major incident occur else where in the city simultaneously causing a shortage of units to respond….Just Curious and Just Wondering where the priorities lay
Considering how much I can find to dislike about the Ilitch's, I'm actually a bit excited about this. I like the design, too.
But the pattern of all their past developments still leaves me skeptical. Back when the Fox was restored and Little Caesar's moved some of their employees downtown, a senior official spoke of interest by some of their employees in living downtown. They talked of turning the Detroit Life Building into apartments. Here it is, almost 27 years later, and well...
I used to like John Gallagher's writing, but where's the journalism? Specifically, there's no mention of public subsidies. How did that question not get asked?
For one, it's not the private sector to prioritize public service. That's an entirely different discussion and thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by birwood
I'm in a similar boat, but I think this is more of a play to get what they want with the Eddystone/Park Ave hotels. If this moves the needle even 1% with Council on that issue, shame on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by downtownguy
Downtownguy, my theory is that Gallagher now writes in a generally promotional tone, and in exchange he gets a lot of exclusive scoops-- i.e. yesterday. Occasionally he breaks this mold with a more serious analytical piece.
Anyway, what question about public subsidies needs to be answered? Some of the papers said that this is all private money for this development. Well sure, but it counts towards the $200M investment that Olympia must make to enjoy the lavish subsidies that are already on the table. So I guess it all factors in to their plum situation. Crain's, I believe, estimated that this could cost $70 million, so the Illitches are almost halfway home in terms of what they NEED to do. Obviously, we should hope for more and the council should have insisted on more.
Here's a question that needs answering: how does the lovely Blenheim building factor in here? Will it be spared?
Supposedly John Gallagher is an architecture critic, but in reality his job is regurgitating "building-y" press releases.Quote:
Originally Posted by downtownguy
That design would have been innovative and energetic in the 70s, except those ideas back then were the result of intellectual developments, and not fuddy duddy obliviousness.Quote:
But both of those eras gloried in architectural experimentation, which captures something of what the Ilitch family hopes to stress with its new headquarters -- a zest for innovation and energy that will propel forward both a company and its host city.
And now that design is the most safe and easy choice possible. "Historical chunk" + "shiny chunk" = "true to its history, reimagines itself for the future" every time. When the historical chunk isn't copying a particular building it's just a generic historical chunk that is either respectful of "context" or "tradition". It's not like there's some controversial design theories being applied here, the infuriating part is that this is the dullest most formulaic corporate architecture possible. Is "But the Ilitch family's architecture ... has been marked by an energetic, even exuberant embrace of design as entertainment." code for "their tourist trap marketing team tells the architects what to do"?Quote:
The family's architectural choices may delight some and infuriate others, but those choices are never dull. And fortunately the Ilitches avoided what may have seemed the easy choice -- a mere repetition or mimicking of what Crane did on the adjacent Fox building nearly a century ago.
If John Gallagher didn't want to do any criticism himself he could at least inform readers of what criticisms other people may have. Or at the very least don't mischaracterise or miscontextualize things.
As far as the design itself [[rather than the design attitude) I'd like to know more about the decision to set the building back.
I also wonder if this is even for real or if it's just the last PR stunt to get people to not mind their demolition plans. If this is real it would have been in the works for a while, and it would have been something concrete and credible they could have added to their over the top arena district announcements/hussling. If they really are expanding and consolidating their HQ that'd be great though, and that lot has been crying for a building for a while now. :)
I agree. I can not think of a better building for that location and a better job of architectural harmony.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartanDawg
Putting the wrong building there would be an eyesore.
I assume the arena and this building will be the first two projects to see shovels in the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmike76
Anyone venture a guess what would be the 3rd new building in the Ilitch development plans?
This is a good point. I wonder if this is something they were planning on doing anyway, and they waited to officially do it until after the arena stuff was settled, so that it could count towards their investment totals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinaw
"A Columbia Street neighborhood to be activated with retail and green space" so I'm guessing the building will be the site of some cutting edge "green space" [[grass) which will "activate" the "neighborhood" [[parking lots and abandoned buildings). :pQuote:
Here's a question that needs answering: how does the lovely Blenheim building factor in here? Will it be spared?
And for once not everyone is complaining about a bland cookie-cutter design, which is notable in and of itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by emu steve
Agreed.... this may not please the "innovative" crowd...but I can live with this design. I do like the nod to C. Howard Crane's original Fox Building design... and when people see this historic touch, they will know immediately that this is part of the Fox complex.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast
As for the setback... yes it does appear to have one. That may have been deliberate. Perhaps when Chuck Forbes sold Mike Ilitch the Fox Building and this parcel... a stipulation may have been included to never build a building that would block the side windows of the Francis Palms Building... and this design appears to satisfy that caveat...
[QUOTE=Mackinaw;462145]Some of the papers said that this is all private money for this development. Well sure, but it counts towards the $200M investment that Olympia must make to enjoy the lavish subsidies that are already on the table. So I guess it all factors in to their plum situation. Crain's, I believe, estimated that this could cost $70 million, so the Illitches are almost halfway home in terms of what they NEED to do.QUOTE]
THAT building is going to cost $70 million? Are the insides going to be covered in 24k gold???? Meridian was going to build their new headquarters at $111 million and it was almost double the size.
Ugh!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
Ilitch proposes the 'perfect building' for that frontage and you complain. :confused:
What do you propose for that frontage?
The building looks like it will have some 'depth' so it will eat up some land space behind it.
Whatever happens behind that building happens, but really doesn't have anything to do with this building.
This building is the right building for the right location.
Awesome. /thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by emu steve
I am going to guess that they may announce the two buildings that will be built across the street from the Fox on the surface lots between the Fox and Comerica... :rolleyes:
That would be my guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit
I could see that AFTER the 2015 Tigers' season [[most likely Spring 2016). They will need to build an additional parking garage to replace the lost parking spaces.
As soon as the parking garage is open for business, work can begin on these buildings.
2016 will be a year of dramatic change if there are multiple buildings going up by the Fox and the arena. The Ilitches have promised a number of concurrent projects.
And they have a real vested interest to FIRST build up properties with frontage on Woodward and closest to their other properties, e.g., Comerica, Fox, and the arena site.
I think most folks would use the word 'prioritize'. Something on Woodward has a higher priority than something on say Cass.
I walked by the future home of Little Caesar's headquarters building on Woodward today, between the State and Fox, and noticed that nothing has changed, despite previously announced plans that development would start in spring 2015. Anyone have any updates on the timing of this development?
1953
New update. Supposedly starting construction this summer. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...oreUserAgent=1
I don't hate it. The pizza shapes, while a bit gimmicky, aren't that bad and actually pretty subtle. If this building was not for the LC HQ I wouldn't think of it as pizza slices, just very sleek triangles. Not shabby at all.
I'll believe it when I see it. Ilitch has no credibility for projects that are not subsidized.Quote:
Originally Posted by ekleezy
this design is really refreshing for detroit. im not sure how one cleans a triangular curtianwall system, but it will have some really great reflectivity. a new city 'jewel' perhaps...lol
Technically it IS subsidized... If the Ilitches spend $200M in the "district," the city will give them $70M over 30 years. Between this building [[$70M), and the parking garage on Montcalm currently being built [[+/- $20M) they are almost halfway there. The infuriating part, is they had plans to renovate buildings for Little Sleazers years ago, but obviously they waited until they got public funds to do so. It was all just overshadowed by the money doled out for the arena.Quote:
Originally Posted by 48307
This link has the cost estimate:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...esign-unveiled
The estimate for the garage I learned from a contractor that bid the job.
Whatever...Quote:
Originally Posted by esp1986
One can get into a discourse like St. Paul's on the body [[eye, foot, etc.) but the bottom line for the new arena effort is that it is a total project [[totality) consisting of a number of known [[planned) buildings and probably buildings not yet planned.
So it kind of hard to say that of the 70M so much [[dollars or percentage) is because of a single building or buildings when this project as known today is what 10 - 12 buildings including residential, parking garages, office buildings, etc.
It is STILL my belief that the Ilitches plan to spend many hundreds of millions doing many buildings in the decade to come.
The whole district area west of Woodward will probably evolve in ways we have no idea today. Some one will say I'm going to re-purpose 640 Temple. Someone else says I will re-purpose a building at nnn 2nd street or 3rd street or Ledyard or whatever...
Absolutely no information on the Blenheim Building on the Park Ave. side of this block. It's not on the National Register of Historic Places, nor is it on the Park Ave. Historic District list, which probably means it will be demolished, but at least say something about the building and the future of it.
According to Loveland, it's owned by Blenheim LLC and built in 1905.
Not sure where this comment [[it is a post I borrowed from a sports forum) about Cleveland's experience with their renaissance in the area around Quicken Loans Arena fits, but I'll put it here..
"Have any of you been to Downtown Cleveland lately?
Downtown Cleveland is booming. While the Greater Cleveland area has shrunk massively in population over the last two decades [[and beyond), the last decade for Downtown Cleveland has been incredible. Not sure what the population is up to now, I think it is like 15k immediately in Downtown and that doesn't count the neighborhoods immediately around Downtown [[trendy neighborhoods like Tremont and Ohio City or University Circle)
More than anywhere, this renaissance is evident in the area immediately surrounding Quicken Loans Arena."
Figures - the second comment on this thread lauded the proposed design, so that's what they changed. The new design isn't terrible, but the original was better.
1953
You clean it just like any other curtainwall. Hang. Clean.Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridy
Getting into the corner of a triangle with a squeege [[or whatever) is a likely a little more difficult than a square. Many buildings have odd-shaped windows.
The reflectivity patterns should be fun.
Not sure what I think of the design. Depends on execution, I suppose. The courtyard between the buildings is the most interesting part to me. That's where the people will mostly engage this new building and the existing Fox Building.
The other detail to watch will be the 'tube' between the buildings. In the renderings its pretty plain. I'm guessing they haven't yet decided how to handle that detail. Its a tough one. Plain is probably best. I think I'd vote for all-glass, but of different character, so it doesn't look too much like its a mosquito snout.
Typical pie in the sky defense by emu steve of anything Ilitch touches or proposes [[the proposed, yet unfinished list is a lot longer).Quote:
Originally Posted by emu steve
While I like this new version, I still prefer the original one. This building could be built anywhere, while the prior version was unique to that site.
I'd rather say that I love to debate the 'doubting Thomases' of Detroit who thought that M-1 wouldn't be built, the arena wouldn't be built, the LC's headquarters wouldn't be built, the new housing adjacent to Comerica won't be built, etc. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by downtownguy
For those into counting and checking things off of a list.
The Detnews article by Louis A. indicates that the Ilitches are in for 14 buildings:
"The headquarters is one of 14 planned new buildings the Ilitches intend to announce as part of its $650 million plan to transform 50 blocks of Detroit, mainly north of downtown, into an upscale area that will be anchored by the new home ice of the Red Wings."
Twelve more to go... :)
From the Freep article:
When Little Caesar's moved some of their employees downtown in 1988, the count was 400 employees. I think they pretty much filled the Fox Building at that time. The new building is considerably narrower and probably wont be much deeper. At 14' per floor, it will probably have fewer floor than the Fox. Even taking into account the theatre space in the Fox Building, I suspect it has fewer usable square feet than the Fox.Quote:
About 700 Little Caesars staffers will work in the new building.
So, two skepticisms: Will the new building have capacity for 700 employees? Where will these 700 employees come from? Do they actually have that many working in the 'burbs? Sure they may do some new hiring, but 700? Really??
Out of sight, out of mind. Why did you have to bring that up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zads07
But, it's forgivable because they are such great historic preservationists. Forget about the Ilitch destroyed Varney Apartments and Madison-Lenox Hotel, or the maimed Fine Arts Building. This is progress!
I copied that quote from the other thread because I totally agree. We need to be open minded to the formal possibilities inherent in the architectural materials and methods contemporary today. That's how we can extract the best value from them. Not just in savings but in stylistic opportunity. Let's build an honest 21st century building and not pretend it's still the horse and buggy days. And let's build spaces for today's purposes, not yesterday's. I'm not in love the new design but I do like it, certainly better than the previous proposal.Quote:
Originally Posted by southen
Formal considerations aside, what's most important about architecture is how it interacts with the people who use it and shapes the space around it. I'm glad they're thinking about building a workplace conducive for employees. And I love their promise of street-level retail. Adding some commercial activity to draw more people to the area would bring vibrance to the neighborhood beyond what you get now from a few hundred employees and intermittent event crowds. I'd see that as a big plus.
Whether it works or not will depend almost entirely on its execution. I appreciate the elegance of subtlety, not extravagance. But subtlety does not mean skimping on materials, detail, and engineering quality. If anything it makes them more important. And regarding the street-level retail, let's hope it's not just a sports memorabilia store and a pizza restaurant. Of course what goes in there will have a lot to do with what will succeed.
My hope for this neighborhood is that it becomes much more well-rounded than it is today. Having so many event venues isn't really conducive to that. But at least it can become a more well-rounded entertainment district that attracts people besides when there are events at the theatres or on game day.
Of course the best way to do that would be for the Ilitches to unshutter all the vacant properties they own directly behind the theater. Empty they're a depressing weight on the vicinity. I wish there were a way to force the Ilitches to step up and renovate them, or sell them at a reasonable price to someone who will. They're ripe with opportunity.
And since this is the Ilitches, let's hope the new headquarters is built at all. Like so many others have said, they have a history of announcing plans that never materialize. But since it's for their own benefit, I'm optimistic it will.
Now that we have a design for the new building, I wonder what design the Ilitches will come up with for the housing across the street?
Will it blend with the new LC building?
Im sure the new housing will be somewhere between Orleans Landing and the new Gilbert Brush Park development. Modern, but nothing crazy or really groundbreaking.
I hope plenty of jobs go along with this tower. Olympia should be publicly posting them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emu steve
uum, we certainly know it well, we have condos in both downtowns, Downtown Clevelands "boom" is no bigger than Downtown Detroits "boom".
Infact they are pretty similar. Market appreciation lately is actually a bit higher in midtown here than anywhere in Cleveland. Id say overall Downtown Detroit is actually busier presently but Cleveland is doing nicely. . Areas population is also similar with all the new developments in both cities. As for neighborhoods , the boom in Tremont, Downtown , and Ohio City is basically the same as Detroit Downtown, Midtown. Lafayette Park, [[huge increases), Corktown and Indian Village areas. University Circle on the cities far east side is doing well but its similar in distance going north to six mile here, hardly a urban core area. Neither city outshines the other in progress. Detroit is not in a backseat position to whats going on in Cleveland. Detroit District is bigger than anything on the board presently in Cleveland. We used to think Cleveland had the edge but lately no way,,Detroit is doing very well..finally...
I curious on how you would define"refreshing" for the average visitor? Something that will be noticed? Or something that merely reflects the details of the neighboring buildings?Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridy
I liked the old design better [[with a touch of what the architecture community deridingly calls "pastishe")... and people walking by along Woodward would have said "hey Joe... check that out how that mixes old and new".... With what is planned now... the building will stay splendidly in the background.
Also... for those folks who say.... "everywhere else is doing this... so we should be too".... To that I say "Really?? We want Detroit to look like everywhere else?? If that is the case, then we really do have a lot of catching up to do... so we don't have to look at so much of all that old stuff any more!"
The Fox Theatre is the heart of Detroit's entertainment district. People come downtown this district often to escape [[even for a while) the blandness of suburbia... do we want to make this district look like Northwestern Hwy or Big Beaver Rd.? Does everything have to be either modernism or considered Disneyesque? Is there no happy middleground that can please the public that gets away from both the carport top AND the modern "gingerbread"?
I'm not deriding modernism versus the good old days.... but there has to be something else available. Something that will make people say.... "wow that's different... AND cool!".
But I'm not sure architecture schools today are going anywhere near that direction.... :eek:
The faux historicist design went away per owner direction. Has to be taken up with Chris illitch
Maybe we'll see a less historicist new design for the Mike Ilitch School of Business as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridy
Isn't a lot of the 1920's architecture that everyone waxes poetic about also simply an earlier and well done "faux historicist" design?Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridy
Some, but not all. The art deco skyscrapers - like the Penobscot, Guardian and Stott buildings - were built in a new style that tried to be appropriate for the new scale of a skyscraper. Trying to graft older styles on that big a building made it look a little silly, like the Book Tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast
Not that we aren't fond of the Book Tower, but it's kind of like your great aunt who insisted on dressing like a teenager from 1960, even though she's 250 pounds - good style for its time, but not size appropriate.
Talk about bait and switch , this is disappointing
Yes, because thinking an early rendering from months ago was going to be the final plan is such a terrible bait and switch...Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitdave