Orr Jumps on Story of $1 Million Check laying uncashed in City Hall Drawer

Mr. Orr digs up an old story and turns it into a prop to support his agenda.

If I am correct, I believe that is worth 1000 hours of Mr. Orr's legal team's services.

And would Mr. Kilpatrick ever have let this happen! :cool:

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The cheque was found in a city hall desk drawer in March, a month after it was received. Four months later the city collapsed into bankruptcy...

“Nobody sends million-dollar cheques anymore - they wire the money,” said a spokesman for Kevyn Orr, a bankruptcy expert hired by the state in March to stop Detroit's fiscal freefall.

“We have financial systems that are three, four, five decades in the past," he added. “If we can fix those issues, then we’ll be able to provide services better, faster, more efficiently and cheaper.”

The city’s income-tax receipts are processed by hand, part of the 70% of accounting entries done manually, according to the spokesman. Last year the US Internal Revenue Service described Detroit’s tax-collection system as “catastrophic”, with some bills going uncollected for six years.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...ll-drawer.html

It's amazing all the shit this guy has to take from people like Lowell, as if he created this this mess or is somehow here to exploit the city for his benefit. I commend him for the job he's doing with all the people trying to throw roadblocks in his way left and right. It's crazy to think that people could have been silent and so complacent with Detroit's government for so long, then take shots when someone finally comes in to clean up the mess.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Mr. Orr digs up an old story and turns it into a prop to support his agenda.

If I am correct, I believe that is worth 1000 hours of Mr. Orr's legal team's services.

And would Mr. Kilpatrick ever have let this happen! :cool:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...ll-drawer.html

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When did this 'old story' happy?

If I recall correctly from newspaper reports back in the 90s, the city bought this system for about $25m. And then spent $60m 'customizing' it to their needs. The vendor got rakes through the coals for cost overruns. They responded to the reporter that their system was perfectly capable of working WITHOUT modifications, and was doing so in hundreds of other cities. But Detroit insisted that their current archaic procedures could not be changed -- and demanded the changes. The vendor said beyond telling this it was stupid, it wasn't their job to turn down work an informed customer demands. [[This is heresay -- wish I could find the article.)

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Originally Posted by artds

It's amazing all the shit this guy has to take from people like Lowell, as if he created this this mess or is somehow here to exploit the city for his benefit. I commend him for the job he's doing with all the people trying to throw roadblocks in his way left and right. It's crazy to think that people could have been silent and so complacent with Detroit's government for so long, then take shots when someone finally comes in to clean up the mess.

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I think it hurts when your political opposition does something that works.

This seems to be a real problem in today's politics. Each party is against everything their opposition does -- even when it works.

I don't like Obamacare, but I think its gonna work. Most conservatives can't accept success from the left. They attack the man, not the idea.

We snipe at irrelevant things we see in those who don't agree with us. I do the same. It feeds something in our weaker self. Elsewhere on the forum, someone wondered why little outrage at 1m+ DPS fraud -- but attacks on how Orr ties his ties. I believe his opponents are disappointed that Orr/Snyder are actually getting things done. Finding flaws with Orr makes him seem less super-human. Allows opponents to accept that things are getting done -- and by people and methods they oppose.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Mr. Orr digs up an old story and turns it into a prop to support his agenda.

If I am correct, I believe that is worth 1000 hours of Mr. Orr's legal team's services.

And would Mr. Kilpatrick ever have let this happen! :cool:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...ll-drawer.html

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No, because Mr Kilpatrick would have cashed that "bad boy"

Okay, so the check sat in a drawer for a month before being cashed. I doubt it went stale. This is no big deal, & it should not have been made into one.

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Originally Posted by jackie5275

Okay, so the check sat in a drawer for a month before being cashed. I doubt it went stale. This is no big deal, & it should not have been made into one.

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This isn't about the money at all -- although the interest the city lost here was about $1,500 [[2% simple interest for 30 days). This is about a city where they haven't modernized their procedures. There should be no $1m checks.

The problem is that city government is still using buggy whips and paying horseshoers. Yes, I know, the water board isn't really doing any horseshoeing. But it appears the accounting department is still doing 1960's accounting practices. That's the problem.

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Originally Posted by jackie5275

Okay, so the check sat in a drawer for a month before being cashed. I doubt it went stale. This is no big deal, & it should not have been made into one.

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WHAT!? You see nothing wrong with this? I'm thinking you are being facetious and it simply isn't coming through in the written word. Right?

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Originally Posted by kanfar

WHAT!? You see nothing wrong with this? I'm thinking you are being facetious and it simply isn't coming through in the written word. Right?

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Hey, a million here, a million there, pretty soon you will be talking about real money [[to paraphrase Sen Dirksen)

I Googled "million dollar check" and found this customizable million dollar check.

Attachment 21111

What fun. :D

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Originally Posted by kanfar

WHAT!? You see nothing wrong with this? I'm thinking you are being facetious and it simply isn't coming through in the written word. Right?

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You're right.

First and foremost, it's the fact that $1 Million dollars was sitting unspent for that long, given how broke the city is.

Another poster also brings up a good point about this incident symbolizing how outdated Detroit's systems are, as that amount of money is mostly transferred electronically these days and not in the form of checks.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

You're right.

First and foremost, it's the fact that $1 Million dollars was sitting unspent for that long, given how broke the city is.

Another poster also brings up a good point about this incident symbolizing how outdated Detroit's systems are, as that amount of money is mostly transferred electronically these days and not in the form of checks.

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The crazier thing is the issuer of the check had to call the city to ask why they hadn't cashed it. How long would it have sat in that drawer if they hadn't called to remind the city that they had it.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

This isn't about the money at all -- although the interest the city lost here was about $1,500 [[2% simple interest for 30 days). This is about a city where they haven't modernized their procedures. There should be no $1m checks.

The problem is that city government is still using buggy whips and paying horseshoers. Yes, I know, the water board isn't really doing any horseshoeing. But it appears the accounting department is still doing 1960's accounting practices. That's the problem.

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The problems is also that the City still does stuff like pay a contract firm employee a six figure salary to be the COO of the transportation department while at the same time he is running a full time campaign for public office and hosting a daily radio show in New York. I'm still waiting for the public expressions of outrage and condemnation about that episode from our local media and public leaders.

Steven Henderson dashed off an editorial condemning the inexcusable waste in the water department the day after that horseshoer story came out, but I haven't seen any follow up articles or commentary on the former transportation department COO. Nor have I seen any investigation to ensure that those privatizing firms don't have other employees in similar circumstances.

All the waste and mis-management in the City needs to be addressed. Not just the ones that happen to correspond to favorite targets of the powers that be.

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Originally Posted by getmoore

The crazier thing is the issuer of the check had to call the city to ask why they hadn't cashed it. How long would it have sat in that drawer if they hadn't called to remind the city that they had it.

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How many other checks are sitting in drawers where the payer hasn't called?

http://www.eclectablog.com/2011/11/d...illion-in.html

Of course, he could have used countless other examples.

I maintain that if the city had 100 billion dollars it would find away to get it stolen, misallocate it, or not spend it, and the city would look just as bad at it does today. It is just totally dysfunctional. I'm glad we finally have a grown-up in charge, and I, and thankfully he, doesn't care what a handful of goofy activists have to say about him. And guess what, I'm a citizen of this city, so what he does actually has an impact on my life since I wake up here every single day.

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Originally Posted by Motor City Sam

The problems is also that the City still does stuff like pay a contract firm employee a six figure salary to be the COO of the transportation department while at the same time he is running a full time campaign for public office and hosting a daily radio show in New York. I'm still waiting for the public expressions of outrage and condemnation about that episode from our local media and public leaders.

Steven Henderson dashed off an editorial condemning the inexcusable waste in the water department the day after that horseshoer story came out, but I haven't seen any follow up articles or commentary on the former transportation department COO. Nor have I seen any investigation to ensure that those privatizing firms don't have other employees in similar circumstances.

All the waste and mis-management in the City needs to be addressed. Not just the ones that happen to correspond to favorite targets of the powers that be.

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I think Nojay's simultaneous contracts deserve scrutiny. I could find nothing on the web saying much about this. Did the contract call for exclusivity or a particular work week? It is a reg flag -- but its also clear from his posts and articles that Mr. Nojay actually did function as COO and was working to make things better.

So I don't know if this is inexcusable waste. Tell me why it is. I'm open to hearing facts.

So you're mad at Henderson for horseshoer comments. But not so mad at DWDS for still having that classification in their labor agreements? But mad that nobody is attacking Nojay? Take off your blinders.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I think Nojay's simultaneous contracts deserve scrutiny. I could find nothing on the web saying much about this. Did the contract call for exclusivity or a particular work week? It is a reg flag -- but its also clear from his posts and articles that Mr. Nojay actually did function as COO and was working to make things better.

So I don't know if this is inexcusable waste. Tell me why it is. I'm open to hearing facts.

So you're mad at Henderson for horseshoer comments. But not so mad at DWDS for still having that classification in their labor agreements? But mad that nobody is attacking Nojay? Take off your blinders.

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So, I'm wearing blinders? Because I say waste should be addressed in Detroit no matter where it's found? Or because I believe that a guy being paid for doing two full time jobs at the same time in different states deserves the same amount of scrutiny as an organization having "horseshoer" as one of it's job classifications?

And don't put words in my mouth. I'm not mad at Henderson. I think it's at best inconsistent that he, along with most of the Detroit media, ignored the Transportation COO story after he wrote an editorial triggered by the horseshoe job classification. But to be mad I think I'd have to say I expected more out of him, but I don't.

I'm not mad at the Water Department for having a horsehoer job classification. It's sloppy, but even the articles that followed up on the story showed it had no financial impact. There was one guy with that job classification. It was one of two he had, the first being Welder, which was his primary job with the department. No one was being paid to shoe horses. Still, months later, people like you bring it up when it has nothing to do with the current discussion to try to make a point about Detroit's wasteful ways.

As far as the COO goes, I'm going to use a little common sense and say that if he was within his contract to spend most of his time campaigning for office and hosting an every weekday radio show in New York while being paid to be the COO of the Detroit transportation department, he wouldn't have been kicked out of the job as soon as the story became public.

On the other hand, you are going to believe that he was "functioning as COO and working to make things better" based on "his posts and articles". Basically you're saying you believe he did a good job because he said so. Wow. And you accuse me of wearing blinders.

The reason I'm not so quick to fault the city on this is because Nojay was a contractor hired by the contractor to fix the Water Department. As a contractor and not an employee Nojay had some flexibility in what he could do time wise. I think the race he was in got to be too much and the Detroit job was going to take a lot more time than he wanted to give.

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Originally Posted by poobert

http://www.eclectablog.com/2011/11/d...illion-in.html

Of course, he could have used countless other examples.

I maintain that if the city had 100 billion dollars it would find away to get it stolen, misallocate it, or not spend it, and the city would look just as bad at it does today. It is just totally dysfunctional. I'm glad we finally have a grown-up in charge, and I, and thankfully he, doesn't care what a handful of goofy activists have to say about him. And guess what, I'm a citizen of this city, so what he does actually has an impact on my life since I wake up here every single day.

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Mr Orr would really command some respect if there was a massive stream of people coming out of the CAY and other city gummint buildings in Detroit clutching pink slips and their terminal paychecks.

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Originally Posted by Motor City Sam

So, I'm wearing blinders? Because I say waste should be addressed in Detroit no matter where it's found? Or because I believe that a guy being paid for doing two full time jobs at the same time in different states deserves the same amount of scrutiny as an organization having "horseshoer" as one of it's job classifications? ...

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No offense intended. Scrutiny is justified in both cases. Bottom line here is that Orr is justified in his comments about the $1m check -- and discussions about other things just sideshows.

I'm just glad that Orr is seeing these problems and fixing them. Like the broken window theory... perhaps if enough incompetence is exposed and fixed, the competent will find a way to get things done right for the citizens.

An outcome I am looking for is the establishment of a solidly independent third party accounting system for the City of Detroit.

The million-dollar-check-in-the-drawer story is just one of many anecdotes of lax or no accounting that allowed pilfering or waste of city funds and increased loss of respect for city government.

Back when the web came along the first City Council website was developed. It was revealed that the CC paid over a million dollars for it, I believe it was $1.4 mil. I looked up the website and the stench hit me immediately.

As website development was my business, I assessed the site. It was about 300 pages of simple html, no expensive programming and such. At year 2001 high-end market rates it should have cost $50,000.

Even after it was outed, nothing ever happened other than the vendor relationship being ended.

A system that questions and catches such things is what I hope evolves. If Mr. Orr leaves that, and applies it to his activities and contracts, I will feel better about future city management.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I'm just glad that Orr is seeing these problems and fixing them. Like the broken window theory... perhaps if enough incompetence is exposed and fixed, the competent will find a way to get things done right for the citizens.

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I am in 100% agreement with that and share that same hope.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

An outcome I am looking for is the establishment of a solidly independent third party accounting system for the City of Detroit.

The million-dollar-check-in-the-drawer story is just one of many anecdotes of lax or no accounting that allowed pilfering or waste of city funds and increased loss of respect for city government.

Back when the web came along the first City Council website was developed. It was revealed that the CC paid over a million dollars for it, I believe it was $1.4 mil. I looked up the website and the stench hit me immediately.

As website development was my business, I assessed the site. It was about 300 pages of simple html, no expensive programming and such. At year 2001 high-end market rates it should have cost $50,000.

Even after it was outed, nothing ever happened other than the vendor relationship being ended.

A system that questions and catches such things is what I hope evolves. If Mr. Orr leaves that, and applies it to his activities and contracts, I will feel better about future city management.

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Lowell, I think that many municipal governments have this in place already. There is one culture of this city government that needs to be washed out immediately: the role of the city government is NOT to provide jobs to the residents. The role is to provide services. If there is a cheaper way, you can take the savings and reallocate them to another additional service [[an additional police car, an additional fire truck, an additional park open).

Unfortunately, the residents haven't demanded that, and the city employee unions have resisted that zealously. Any change that cost a job was a change the unions didn't want.

That's what has to change.

And, yes, you're right--you'll find that many, many of those contracts went to friends and family [[and donors). The existing process of bidding has to remove the preference for city-headquartered vendors, and open it up to where the city can get savings. Again, it's not like savings are going to shareholders or CEOs, they should go back to additional services.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

...Back when the web came along the first City Council website was developed. It was revealed that the CC paid over a million dollars for it, I believe it was $1.4 mil. I looked up the website and the stench hit me immediately.

As website development was my business, I assessed the site. It was about 300 pages of simple html, no expensive programming and such. At year 2001 high-end market rates it should have cost $50,000.

Even after it was outed, nothing ever happened other than the vendor relationship being ended....

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Not to disagree, but it should be noted that the very first webmasters were obscenely overpaid throughout the market simply because of a temporary high demand and low supply situation. Those with no scruples exploited the situation. Others chose to instead build a lasting reputation of integrity with their clients. I'd like to think the latter prevailed in the end.

You are certainly correct that a city council should have recognized that the benefits of a mere website would not justify that high of a cost to their taxpayers.

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Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy

Lowell, I think that many municipal governments have this in place already. There is one culture of this city government that needs to be washed out immediately: the role of the city government is NOT to provide jobs to the residents. The role is to provide services. If there is a cheaper way, you can take the savings and reallocate them to another additional service [[an additional police car, an additional fire truck, an additional park open).

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I agree with you in principal. But services get provided with people, whether they are city employees or private company employees. The problem with the city is that all too often, the private companies cost far more than the city employees, for the kinds of services they city is outsourcing, even accounting for benefits and pensions. This is knowledge, not speculation, and is easy to figure out if anyone cares to ask a few simple questions.

The city has to be wise in what it outsources. Garbage collection for instance. This seems like a place where it might be less costly to outsource. But, the process can't be rigged and contract compliance must be carefully monitored. It's hard for a case against outsourcing to to be made if true cost savings can be shone. Taxpayers must demand that cost savings be shown consistently.

By the way, there are often hidden tangible benefits to giving local companies a slight edge. But the City's edge to local companies is way too high.