"We have these messages. If you dont want them to get out, settle this case for 8.4 mill, and we'll keep it quiet." Pssssst we already gave em to the free press. = extortion doesnt it???????Or am I missing something?
"We have these messages. If you dont want them to get out, settle this case for 8.4 mill, and we'll keep it quiet." Pssssst we already gave em to the free press. = extortion doesnt it???????Or am I missing something?
You raise a very interesting and valid question. Did they illegally extort money from the city by blackmailing Kwame?
I'm not a legal expert, so I'm not quite sure!
Whether or not those messages were city of private property and were legally or illegally obtained will probably have its day in court, most likely civil. As I recall KK and city could have settled for something like $250K. Instead they got stubborn and a big rock got turned over exposing a lot of worms and starting the landslide the now engulfs KK.
That lawsuit was some bull from the begining thats why they didnt want to settle. But after they went around judges orders and illegally supoenaed the messages they used them to get what they wanted. remember their affair had nothing to do w/ the case. Those messages were not used in court. So what was the purpose??? EXTORTION was the only purpose/motivation for getting the messages in the first place. They won their lawsuit because everybody thought GB was fired for investigating the "party". That was far from the truth but in the minds of SE Michiganders [[it was only 1 Detroiter on the jury) He was fired because of the party. It all came out that he actually still had a job and that he RETIRED. But that didnt matter did it? And for some insurance GB whispered in his lawyer ear that he always used his two-way pager and if they could get those messages they could get rich. [[My Assumption Only). and thats what they did. The MEDIA has NEVER even ATTEMPTED to make a connection or even raise the question. I wonder WHY??? Well I really dont wonder why I already know why. and yall SHOULD tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
It might be extortion if the context wasn't settlement discussions for a lawsuit. Both sides wanted to settle and one side let the other know that they had bombshell information that they could share if the other side didn't agree to their terms. I'm not a lawyer but this kind of stuff happens in legal cases of many varieties every day and I don't ever recall someone being prosecuted for "extorting" a legal agreement that includes an agreement to keep quiet.
We all know Kwame did not want to settle until they had the proof that he was lying and that he was cheating on his wife with christine beaty. What did not come up in that case is that Christine was one of many women that he was sleeping around with. I remember reading somewhere there there were at least a dozen women. What I want to know here is why is 313hero such a champion for Kwame. We have seen him rally to his cause here and on other threads. Seems odd that many people would still support such a ..........
313hero: there are no criminal charges to be brought. None at all. Stefani was found by the Michigan Bar to have acted unethically according to Bar standards and was sanctioned. Brown brought a lawsuit which he won. he was not proven, as KK was, to have lied under oath as to the firing and career-ending of an obstacle in his way. KK did that.
KK can sue Stafani and the Free Press, I guess. He isn't doing so good in his private lawsuits, but, when he gets out of prison for public corruption, he could do it then.
That and a buck-fifty gets you a cup of coffee. Novine dissects that above. IMO the real argument, if there is one, is whether or not the messages were legally obtained/provided. The communications company, forget their name, are the ones I would go after if I am playing KK and his lawyers. The have the deep pockets to mine too.Quote:
And for some insurance GB whispered in his lawyer ear that he always used his two-way pager and if they could get those messages they could get rich. [[My Assumption Only).
But criminal indictment for extortion? Extremely unlikely.
Double Standard huh??? WOW.
Yep you got it TREEONETREE hero its a double standard, I think 313 is just trying to find a way for the city to get paid????. Sue the Freep or Skytel...clean out their deep pockets. Kwamster can then write a rubber check to the City of Detroit for his silly little ole restitution payment. Then bingo his royal slickness gets one over on the man times two....Jeeus people if it wasn't Gary Brown it would have been half a dozen other avenues of corruption against the people of Detroit that the Feds would have pursued or were already pursuing...Forget about Christine B and the rest of the women and the cheating on his wife, heck anyone can do that while standing on their head. Apparently from his own admission Kwamster was just putting notches in his thingy as all men of that age do [[he hadn't matured yet?? once again his own words), having a wife and and kids you are supposed to love and be faithful to, come on quit being so Victorian and lets kick it with the boys rollin in my city bought Eskalade. He and the city really is the gift that keeps on giving. Somebody pass the popcorn.
I would agree that their acts fall under the common sense understanding of extortion/blackmail. The legal definition is more complicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by 313hero
There's a thin line between legal settlement negotiation vs. blackmail. It's not clear to me whether or not they've actually committed a crime here.
Either way, yes...I agree. It's a dirty move.
Corktown: who did Brown extort? His lawyer worked to get the monies that Brown had been honestly awarded by a jury. If KK had gone to appeal, the truth would have come out in THAT venue anyway and he would have lost.
The City saved some interest on the deal that occurred. No one forced KK to give up. he did [[and the City paid out) because - a la John Edwards - KK didn't want his wife and the boys [[Dan Guilbert, Roger Penske, etc) to know what he had been up to.
What did an affair have to do with their trial??? NOTHING. What is illegal about having an affair??? Nothing. Did they ever state they was fired because he was having an affair??? Nope. So the affair had NOTHING to do w/ the case and was used to Blackmail/extort millions from the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMAP
The issue is moot. First, Brown won his case; second, you don't have to be fired to get whistleblower protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by 313hero
Bolding is mine. You can find the law here: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...69-of-1980.pdfQuote:
An employer shall not discharge, threaten, or otherwise discriminate against an employee regarding the employee's compensation, terms, conditions, location, or privileges of employment because the employee, or a person acting on behalf of the employee, reports or is about to report, verbally or in writing, a violation or a suspected violation of a law or regulation or rule promulgated pursuant to law of this state, a political subdivision of this state, or the United States to a public body, unless the employee knows that the report is false, or because an employee is requested by a public body to participate in an investigation, hearing, or inquiry held by that public body, or a court action.
It doesn't seem like anyone left this case with clean hands.
You are so crazy. There is nothing illegal about the affair. But, just like the white man John Edwards, the tangle of illegal stuff came up when the public figure KK tried to hide the affair and fired a top cop, who sued. So then KK lied again, this time to a jury - who didn't believe him and found for Brown.
So, just like the white man John Edwards, KK was brought down for LYING about an important matter. Not the affair- the firing.
And you say Brown wasn't fired. Brown memorably retorted: "When they come in and take your service weapon, your badge and your keys, you have to understand that you're fired."
Only later did KK come up with the "retired" scenario.
Let's make sure I put this out there. I'm glad Kwame was hit with punitive damages. I'm glad he's out of here. I'm glad he's getting hit with RICO charges. And I want McQuade and Arena to have a field day with all the corruption in Detroit and Wayne County.Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMAP
The question 313Hero raises is whether or not extortion took place. The definition of extortion is broad enough to include legal actions that use the threat of revealing factual information in order to coerce the extorted party to obtain a desired result involving financial gain, goods, or services.
Now there is a gray area between coercion and persuasion. By simply stating to KK's attorney that, "If you fight this in court, we both are aware that doing so will inevitably involve revealing facts that your client might not want to be made public. Let's both agree to save the time, money, and your client's embarrassment by settling out of trial."Quote:
Neither extortion nor blackmail require a threat of a criminal act, such as violence, merely a threat used to elicit actions, money, or property from the object of the extortion. Such threats include the filing of reports [[true or not) of criminal behavior to the police, revelation of damaging facts [[such as pictures of the object of the extortion in a compromising position), etc.
Is that persuasion? Is that coercion? We're drifting into areas of debate that require legal scholars greater than me.
Like I said, I personally am glad with the outcome. But ideal outcomes which derive from an iffy process certainly warrant some discussion. I'm just saying that your point about the truth inevitably coming out doesn't necessarily eliminate extortion as a possible occurrence. I'll defer to higher legal minds on this from this point forward.
A Mayor CANNOT FIRE A POLICE OFFICER. However he can fire APPOINTEES "WITHOUT CAUSE" as its stated in the City Charter. Now Brown was reasigned to a B.S. spot in the police Dept. so he retired. He's receiving his pension, and all other benefits. No wrong doing ever came out of his "investigation". G.B. was just a bitch ass mf. [[My Opinion). Then sued swearing he was fired for investigating things that wasnt illegal or against any policy and won millions. Then just in case they appealed and they lost they used the messages as insurance. Now he gets millions for basically being a bitch, and his retirement benefits, and now another 70+k for being on council. He the one that got over on EVERYBODY. Nelthrop just enjoyed the ride. If the takeover wasnt the plan in the beginning Brown would be in Jail by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMAP
313hero I don't want to resort to name calling here, but you really have a warped sense of reality and how you see things going on in this city. You practically worship criminals and you racism all around you where it is not present. I don't know if you are writing these things because you believe it, or if you are just trying to get people angry. I just cannot fathom how anyone can believe the things you do with any kind of rational thinking process going on in their head.
ROTFLMAO. I Just call it how I see it. And yall doing the same thing. I dont worship criminals. I Only Worship God. But i understand what you mean. YOU think they're "criminals" I dont. Lying about an affair isnt really all that "criminal" to me. Being accused of things aren't criminal to me. Now Extorting Millions from the city is "criminal" to me. Now if they are found guilty of criminal activity that was proven during their trials so be it. But if they are found guilty because people already believe they're criminals is a different story. Look at the Brown Case for example. that verdict was more emotional than fact driven. And only having one Detroiter on the jury didnt help non either. All of you guys are not racist pricks but alot of you are. I've read some of the most disturbing comments ever about these guys. KK has been called every monkey, gorilla, Nigger etc. in the book. I've seen how the media blew the "party" out of the water knowing it didnt happen. I've seen how you guys whent crazy over that rumor even though it made no "rationale' Sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok1981
And as soon as he was ousted COBO got Jacked, Hell the city got Jacked. The citizens have no power any longer. We can vote but what diff does it make??? Bing was in on it. The Takeover is in full affect and the only people that will benefit are those who dont look like me. WTF am I supposed to think??? 2009 Killed Detroit. Why? Cause we had two Mayors and neither one of them had a clue. It was a WHISTLEBLOWER lawsuit brought against Bing which the city settled for 200k, and her job back, cause the lady was telling people Bing was Plotting w/ the Governor to become the Financial manager or to get one in here. That story was in the paper once. WTF it was a Whistleblower lawsuit against the city again. Why did the media avoid it?Kirk Lewis [[the deputy mayor) went to Snyder's EM bootcamp and then returned to the city after he was trained. Then Lewis becomes the head honcho because Bing was "sick" at the most important time in his tenure. Lewis pressured the council to sign the agreement and said nothing negative about it. Well I guess he wouldnt since he was in Snyder's pocket anyway. Now thats a scandal. Not some text message bull crap. But hey its working out pretty good for yall, but the citizens are feeling the PAIN every single day.
My cousin was shot 5 times in an attempted car jacking. he drove to the police station and started blowing the horn. The police came out saw what happended and called EMS. EMS had no available trucks so the great officers put him in the back of their car took him to the hospital saving his life. I thanked those officers a million times and they were awesome. The thing that tripped me out was the officers statement: "this is our job man, this is what we do. I'm just glad this raggady ass car started" I was like WOW.
"And as soon as he was ousted COBO got Jacked"
I'm sure you don't know - but you should- that the financing for Cobo was being paid by all the hotels in three counties and by liquor taxes from 33 Michigan Counties. As Cobo dwindled down into one of the worst convention centers in the country [[from one of the best), and reports after reports came in the KK was using it for a cash cow and then more reports came in that even the KK-appointed diredctors of the Hall were on the take [[and they have confessed) and as more conventions such as those even by the Society of Manufacturing Engineers [[a hometown organization) left the Hall for better run, less corrupt sites, and as finally the North American International Auto Show said it was leaving, - the Legislature and the cash-poor City agreed that it be taken away from City management for 30 years and placed it with an Authority.
The results:
"Detroit's Cobo Center may be only about
halfway through its $299-million expansion
and upgrade, but the renovations already
appear to be paying off.
Thom Connors, Cobo's general manager,
said this week that the convention center is
booking first-ever business -- a result of
good buzz about Detroit, and improving
operating efficiencies under a regional
board that has run Cobo since 2009.
"This summer we'll have twice as much
business as we had last year," he said.
"We're moving into booking areas where we
weren't on anybody's radar."
Yeah thats how it was presented at first. Then they took out bonds for it. WE Could've taken out bonds for it. Journey Security [[Black Owned Security Company) Lost their contract and now its Guardian. Simon's Pizza [[Black Owned) was there for a very long time wasnt able to renue their lease. Etc. It worked out real well for people that dont look like me. Didnt it. Now dont get me wrong the New COBO is going to be sweet. The pictures are awesome. It will be nice, I guess thats the way to get help. All or nothing. Thats not help its a takeover. o Yeah you convieniently forgot to mention that WHATEVER DEBT COBO accures will be on the city, not on the other counties. Just Detroit. So they can do whatever they want and COBO can fail without them feeling a pinch. Yeah Good deal.
WHATEVER DEBT COBO accures will be on the city
Absolutely false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313hero
I'm tryna give you the benefit of the doubt here, but what you're saying about the city debt is in direct contradiction to everything I know about Cobo authority. Do you have sources on this?
And I can't make you see this, but the people who are losing out in all this transition aren't losing because they look like you. They're losing because they can't compete in a world class economy. There's plenty of people who look like you who can, and many of them are doing just fine. Sad thing is that most of them don't live in Detroit any longer. They live in Southfield. St. Clair Shores. Farmington Hills. But being black is not the problem here.
And while we're on that vein, while you're sitting here fighting over road construction jobs, we have IT companies that are advertising in Silicon Valley for their talent to come here.
You want people who "look like you" to get jobs? Focus on getting the best damn education you can get and making yourself as valuable as you can. I knew kids who went to MLK, Renaissance, Cass Tech, and U-D Jesuit who "look like you" and are doctors, lawyers, engineers, programmers, consultants, and even the editor of the Detroit Free Press.
While it makes me somewhat sad that you are angry about all of this change, that sadness is far outweighed by my frustration that much of it is being targeted at the wrong things.
It's one thing if you want to say that the poor and marginalized are getting totally screwed in all of this change. That's a fair statement and one worth discussion. But if you think it's because you're skin is darker than mine, not only are directing your anger at the wrong people, but you're distracting yourself from focusing on the actual issues which could prevent you from being a victim of all of this.