East English Village

Hello all...my name is Paul...long time lurker, relatively new poster. I currently reside in South Carolina, but was born, raised and spent most of my years in metro Detroit.

My girlfriend and I [[we're both in our mid 40's + -) have talked about relocating to Detroit for several years now...we've visited Detroit frequently and she and I absolutely love and believe in the city! We've investigated many of the neighborhoods mentioned here on Dyes, either by way of the net or in person on one of our many visits. One place we've become totally enamoured by is EEV.
Heres the rub...its one of the only places we haven't seen/investigated in person.
We've visited the EEV website, read the newsletters, read threads from DYES and even city-data. For many reasons, EEV seems to be the right fit for us at this point in our lives [[AWESOME neighborhood association, beautiful - well built homes/architecture, close to shopping, bikeability to nearby stores/bars/resturants and of course...the prices!) We hoped to be closer to downtown and enjoy a more walkable lifestyle, but would seemingly have to pay quite alot more for the pleasure [[or live in an area that might not have the stability/amenities of EEV.)

My question[[s) are especially to anyone who actually lives in EEV or is intimately familiar with the neighborhood.
1) What is the best/worst thing about living in EEV?
2) Has the "uptick" in crime that was discussed earlier on Dyes come to EEV...and can you quantify in any meaningful way how good or bad crime in the area is?
3) How long does it take to get to downtown and is it bikeable?
4) Are there some good neighborhood bars/resturants in the area?
5) Are abandoned/forclosed properties numerous, sporadic or somewhere in between?
6) For those who live there, would you do it all again if given the chance...or...say HELL NO!!! :D
7) For someone looking to live in the city, get involved and "feel" a part of the city and its struggles to improve, would this neighborhood be a good fit?

I'm sorry to impose with so many questions, and certainly don't expect anyone to take the time to answer each and every one, but if some of you in the area could take a shot at one or two, I would truely be grateful! And please don't feel confined by the questions...tell me ANYTHING [[pro or con) about the neighborhood...I really want to learn as much as possible.

My girlfriend and I are going to be coming up for a visit sometime during the first 2 weeks of April. We have 4 houses in the neighborhood that we're intrested in and plan to spend the better part of the week exploring the community and surrounding areas. I plan to share all of your feedback...well...actually the thread itself... with my girlfriend when everyone weighs in.

A heart-felt THANKS to anyone/everyone who has anything to offer on the subject of EEV...your time and assistance is most appreciated!!!

Sincerely,
Paul

I had a good friend who lived in EEV and became familiar with it through him. Yes, it's a good neighborhood for sure, but having never lived there personally, I can't speak but to a few of your points.

It's about a twenty minute trip via freeway from Downtown. On city streets, it's about forty by car. Is it bikeable? Sure - why not? As far as it's "connectivity" with the city, because it's a border community, the residents seem to congregate more in the Grosse Pointes versus the Downtown.

One popular restaraunt and bar in the area is the Cadieux Cafe on Cadieux Avenue between Warren and Mack Avenues. It's a good spot for beer and mussels and they also have live music from time to time.

I grew up on Bishop off of Mack.
We lived there from 1955-1999.
Nice neighborhood, never had any trouble.

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Originally Posted by Eric_c

I had a good friend who lived in EEV and became familiar with it through him. Yes, it's a good neighborhood for sure, but having never lived there personally, I can't speak but to a few of your points.

It's about a twenty minute trip via freeway from Downtown. On city streets, it's about forty by car. Is it bikeable? Sure - why not? As far as it's "connectivity" with the city, because it's a border community, the residents seem to congregate more in the Grosse Pointes versus the Downtown.

One popular restaraunt and bar in the area is the Cadieux Cafe on Cadieux Avenue between Warren and Mack Avenues. It's a good spot for beer and mussels and they also have live music from time to time.

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Small correction, it is about 15 minutes to downtown whether you take the freeway or city streets.

Welcome Paul!

It actually almost seems against my best interest to encourage you to move to EEV [[since I'm similarly hoping to save up money to buy a house there while prices are so absurdly low lol) I've never lived there but have recently doing a lot of research on the area and considering a move there but I have a lack of income at the moment.

I personally think its a great area and would love to see you there, the city really needs a bunch more people interested in seeing the city improve

I'll take a crack at your questions:

1) I'd say the best part is either the stunning houses or friendly neighbors. One perk of EEV is [[unlike many beautiful Detroit neighborhoods) the house are gorgeous but not gigantic. Heating/maintaining a mansion can make you broke. EEV houses are generally pretty reasonable in size. Of course since I'm not a resident I don't have neighbors but I do know how well most people maintain their property and how tight the neighborhood association is; two things that make a big difference.

2) Ah crime, the constant scourge in Detroit. Lets say that by detroit standards it is very safe. If you want numbers and stats you can check out the crimemapping site [[crimemapping dot com) Its interesting to compare different areas. Generally I focus more on more serious crimes and you'll see that the majority of crime in the neighborhood is property/nonviolent and very rarely assaults etc. It may go without saying that street smarts are important in detroit and you'll likely have to come to terms with more bs than you would in other places/suburbs [[however i know for me my love of the city outweighs most minor issues like that) Crimewise EEV seems to be faring better than most other areas [[I was also looking at the rosedale park area on the west side though the crime stats seem to be worse than eev...I'm hoping these areas improve with the economy soon enough. *CAVEAT don't OVER analyze the crime maps toooo much, I lived in a place with a horrible looking crime map for years and never had trouble and rarely even saw it. A lot comes down to street smarts and good luck. Of course you can still find some especially bad areas on the maps with lots of assaults etc.

3) by car its probably 15-20 minutes to downtown. A serious biker could make it there eventually. One thing I like is there are busses along warren and mack that will take you downtown/midtown. I'm not sure off hand how long it takes but I think its really cool to have the option of taking the mack bus which drops you off right between midtown and downtown.

4)Never been to any bars in the area but have heard a lot about the Cadieux and I see there are a fair number of neighborhood bars along mack, warren, and harper [[i love neighborhood bars and EEV area has more than most areas of Detroit. I've also heard nice things about the blue pointe restaurant at warren and cadieux. Hopefully someone on here has experience to share. Also obviously you're right by grosse pointe which i imagine has a few as well.

5)A little tough to say. There may be plenty of foreclosures but EEV does a good job of making them not obvious. Occasionally you'll see a house boarded up but usually still in decent shape. Its very rare to see a torched or open house in the neighborhood but its still detroit [[I see a house has some fire damage at Cadieux and Wallingford. On the plus side the foreclosures can allow you to buy at a steal. [[I found a house I really liked for 20-25k recently)

6)N/A to my situation but seeing that, when given the option, i would move there from the burbs in a heartbeat) Detroit is kind of an enigma and I feel somewhat that either you're into it or not. Most people I know that are happy in the burbs I wouldn't expect to consider the city. You may know the drawbacks such as police response time, higher insurance, high tax rates etc but If you like where you live they hopefully aren't a deal breaker.

7) I'd say EEV is a pretty good fit if you want to get involved. Granted EEV doesn't really need much involvement but other nearby neighborhoods could. For instance the morningside neighborhood [[just west of eev across outer dr) is similar but a bit worse for wear. I'm SURE you could make a difference if you wanted to help out there, thats what I've planned if i move there. A group from eev and morningside could make a big difference cleaning up trash, securing/maintaining vacant properties, and setting up crime watch patrols.


Hopefully some of this is helpful and I imagine we have a poster or two from eev that can help more. My [[absurdly biased) opinion is go for it! EEV is a wonderful place and you can pick up an amazing house on the cheap. If you're passionate about the city its tough to beat. I walk through the neighborhood from time to time and its very well maintained and peaceful overeall. I love the "bring back the pride signs" you see in many yards [[ I can't recall exactly where but I saw someone flying a full size detroit city flag in front of their house!) Probably droned on long enough; let us know if you decide to move in!

good luck!

Paulie: Detroit needs people like you and I wish you the best in making your decision. I have friends in EEV and I used to live a couple of blocks outside of its boundaries, in Morningside. While there are a lot of positive things about EEV, you can't overlook the fact that it makes up part of a city that can't deliver services, including public safety, that most Americans take for granted. EEV is filled with committed residents, but they are fighting the kind of slow-motion decay that has ended up overwhelming many other Detroit neighborhoods, and has taken quite a toll already on Morningside, to the west. Drive around EEV and Morningside. I'd like to read your reaction.

In the meantime, here is the experience of a committed EEV resident and former Free Press reporter who moved out last year. He moved to another Rust Belt city, his hometown of Pittsburgh.:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11002/1114667-109.stm

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your interest. I live in EEV, and fell in love with it for many of the reasons you mention. It is really an idyllic place to live.

Regarding bars and restaurants, Grosse Pointe has no shortage of them, and they are all bikeable from EEV. I don't hang out in GP much, but there are good ones in Detroit as well. Cadieux Cafe is an old Belgian place walking distance from almost anywhere in EEV, complete with an mussels, feather bowling, bands, and Belgian beer. I've been to Blue Pointe as well - excellent place for seafood, and again, walkable. A good neighborhood bar is High Noon Saloon on Warren Avenue.

Downtown would be probably a 40 minute bike ride. I haven't done it yet - one of the drawbacks for me in EEV is the distance from downtown/Midtown. This is relatively speaking though; I lived in greater downtown for several years so I was spoiled. It is certainly closer to downtown than the 'burbs.

Vacancy is low compared to the rest of Detroit[[I would say an average of 2 per block), but the vacant houses do really bug me. However you won't find the burned-out, kicked-in-door stuff you find in other Detroit neighborhoods. I also have witnessed the remarkable transformation of people actually buying these vacant houses and subsequently fixing them up really nicely and living in them. This is tremendously encouraging, especially for Detroit.

I'll put it in perspective for you: I have a friend from the downriver suburbs who comes over and we go drinking so said friend stays here about every weekend. Just from being here and walking around she grew to love the neighborhood and is now looking at buying a house here.

I do not necessarily believe Detroit will "come back" because the problems are so enormous and sometimes I feel it is too far gone - however places like EEV will thrive on their own merits.

Here is a little secret: We have a lot of high-up city employees in the neighborhood - so city services are impeccable. Police response may still be slow, but I haven't had to call them ever. It isn't as crime-free as the suburbs, but certainly nothing like the rest of Detroit. In addition, it is eerily quiet here at night; very peaceful.

EEV certainly does need involvement! And there are plenty of avenues for it. The neighborhood meetings are always well-attended.

Worth mentioning is the diversity. EEV is one of the most integrated communities in Metro Detroit. This is important to me and I think I'm not alone when I say this.

It sounds to me like you already know what you want to do. You should come to a neighborhood meeting if you can.

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Originally Posted by bartock

Small correction, it is about 15 minutes to downtown whether you take the freeway or city streets.

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Beat me to it. Not sure where that "forty-minute" figure came from - maybe it would take that long in heavy snow, wandering aimlessly around the east side, driving like my grandpa. :)

I've been in EEV for 12 years now and I would highly recommend it. Yes, the neighborhood took a hit in the foreclosure crisis and there are some vacant properties badly in need of a conscientious owner. That's the bad news. The good news is that the good people who've been here all along have stayed, and they're working tirelessly to keep things stable and welcoming. The other good news [[for you, not for me) is that these houses are a steal right now. You could buy the larger vacant house next door to me for probably 1/5 what I'm still paying on my place.
Other good news, though it may take some time to see results, is Mayor Bing's Project 14 initiative to get police officers to move into the neighborhood. There have always been a number of police living in EEV, but we lost some when the residency requirement was struck down in court in 1999.
Also, the nearest high school, Finney-Crockett, is being completely rebuilt into a state-of-the-art building set to open in 2012. They showed the artist's renderings at the last meeting and it looks really nice.
One other thing that attracted me is the neighborhood association. It's more of a caring, well-organized block club, not a heavy-handed suburban-style HOA.
Hope this helps! Welcome!

Oh, and I do occasionally ride my bike downtown. It takes me about 45-50 minutes via Jefferson [[I'm no Lance Armstrong). It's do-able but you should pick your route carefully, since there are some questionable areas between. I take the bus sometimes too and it's about 45 minutes one-way.

I probably should address the negative as well, although Ben Schmidt's experience [[posted above) is telling. With the days of easy mortgages came people who had no business buying a house in the first place. They didn't last long. I remember seeing the landlord who bought a duplex on my block exactly ONCE in the two years she owned the place - after repeatedly trying to inform her of needed repairs - and that was when she was moving her stuff out because she was letting it foreclose. The reason she quit paying the mortgage? "The place is falling apart." I wanted to smack her.
With their departures came empty houses. Empty houses attract vandals, thieves and squatters, which has affected nearly every part of Metro Detroit, suburbs included.
We're all encouraged to look after what the EEV Association calls "Emma's House" - a cutesy name for an empty house on your block. There aren't many boarded-up houses in EEV, because we try to keep them looking occupied. We shovel snow and pick up flyers, park our cars in the driveway occasionally, and mow the grass if need be. It sucks, but I don't think EEV - or even Metro Detroit - is alone in this phenomenon. It's been happening nationwide.
You'll hear people trying to lure you to the suburbs, which I understand. There are reasons they choose to live there. Car insurance is cheaper, schools are better and emergency response time is faster [[though I've had nothing but good experiences with police in EEV). And unfortunately, there's that us-vs.-them mentality that refuses to die.
People who live in the city made a conscientious decision to do so - either to be closer to their jobs, to live somewhere interesting or to get a beautiful unique house with sidewalks in front of it and bus stops nearby. Or maybe we just believe Detroit is still a cool place to be.

Let's fast forward a few years, does anyone have any recommendations or advice for someone looking to move to EEV? Is it safe? If so what streets are the safest if one is looking to raise a family here? Do you feel that this neighborhood is on the rebound? I saw a lot of houses on the auction site that are located in EEV, which makes me believe that investors may be looking towards investing in this neighborhood.

I grew up in EEV. Married left, but returned for 7 yrs to care for my aging mother who passed a few yrs ago. It's a great community. My sister and son both have homes there. Great homes!! Nice neighbors.

Recommend Harvard, skip Grayton, recommend any street or anything from Warren to Mack, Harvard to Outer Drive. You will like the community. Kensington has the prettiest big homes.

Very safe nice area. Great community org. Their garden parties the best.

Anywhere between Warren and Mack

Don't even think about it. Bought a Cox & Baker in 2001 for $141K, now worth < $70K if I'm lucky. Broken into last year in broad daylight [[nobody saw anything, of course) and spent the better part of that year trying to get squatters & dope dealers run off the block [[Bishop between Mack & Warren). Can count at least 6 vacant houses in that stretch. Wife called yesterday at 4:45 a.m. - Heard a noise out front and saw somebody stealing a landscaping block from right under the front window - Was making a ton of noise and didn't seem to care who heard him. A landscaping block? WTF?

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Originally Posted by ct_alum

Don't even think about it. Bought a Cox & Baker in 2001 for $141K, now worth < $70K if I'm lucky. Broken into last year in broad daylight [[nobody saw anything, of course) and spent the better part of that year trying to get squatters & dope dealers run off the block [[Bishop between Mack & Warren). Can count at least 6 vacant houses in that stretch. Wife called yesterday at 4:45 a.m. - Heard a noise out front and saw somebody stealing a landscaping block from right under the front window - Was making a ton of noise and didn't seem to care who heard him. A landscaping block? WTF?

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I am so sorry to hear that. Wierd things do happen. I would never deny crime happens in the city. Got my park bench stolen this summer that was on the berm. Know exactly who took it and why. Have to have a goofy since of humor sometimes.

We took care of my Mom for 7 yrs in EEV. The 1st night there, our car door got jacked, and car riffled for what, I know not. Never another problem.

We do make it a huge point to always know our neighbors. We watch out for them, they watch out for us. My neighborhood is I presume far more dangerous than EEV but am not remotely fearful.

We have one squatter who bothers no one and as a community ran the drug houses out quickly as they set up. My neighbors have no issues working with police.

Sorry not trying to imply I live in Nirvana. Our issues where I live is arson.

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Originally Posted by ct_alum

Don't even think about it. Bought a Cox & Baker in 2001 for $141K, now worth < $70K if I'm lucky. Broken into last year in broad daylight [[nobody saw anything, of course) and spent the better part of that year trying to get squatters & dope dealers run off the block [[Bishop between Mack & Warren). Can count at least 6 vacant houses in that stretch. Wife called yesterday at 4:45 a.m. - Heard a noise out front and saw somebody stealing a landscaping block from right under the front window - Was making a ton of noise and didn't seem to care who heard him. A landscaping block? WTF?

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Landscape blocks are used to steal wheels off cars. They use 2 at the center of the car.