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I think she has it right. She is committed to being his wife, but he has to regain his commitment to their marriage if it is ever to work again. I've seen a few of these mid-life things happen, and the guy usually does look like he is in the grip of some addiction. Friends have recovered and stayed married, seemingly happily. Others have not. In the cases where they did not, either the man did not recover, or the woman did not forgive.
No.
[[I had a big explanation, but "No" covers it better)
I have been fully convinced by Mr. Sanford himself and those groups he supported like the National Organization for Marriage and the other groups like Focus on the Family, that marriage has one and only one definition and that is the biblical one. The adulterer should be put to death by stoning and divorce should be illegal.
The seventh of the Ten Commandments, which God spake in the long ago, "Thou shalt not commit adultery" Exodus 20:14. We are told in I John 3:4, that sin is the transgression of God's law, therefore, to commit adultery is to transgress God's law, and therefore, sin. Not only has God forbidden adultery, but the son of God himself said, "Whoso looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" Matthew 5:28. If the adulterous thought is sin, surely the adulterous act is sin. .Under the law of Moses the penalty was death by stoning. [[Deuteronomy 22:21 ff, John 8:4,5).
Kill him.
Jesus replaced that law. No one has to be stoned or give burnt offerings anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
That is a common misconception. Jesus did not say, "He that is without sin, let him cast the first stone." . Jesus said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."Quote:
Originally Posted by ejames01
Jesus was speaking to the case before him and to a specific group; the Scribes and Pharisees. The Scribes and Pharisees had brought a woman who they claimed was caught in adultery before Him. Then they did their own misquoting of scripture saying,
"Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" John 8:5
It must be pointed out that their case had no merit because Moses in the law did not command what they said. Here is what Moses in the law actually commanded:
"And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." Leviticus 20:10
Where was the man? The Scribes and Pharisees did not bring a man because they were tempting Jesus to improperly render justice so that they could accuse Him. "They said this, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him." John 8:6
The law required both the man and the woman to be stoned. Jesus did not change the penalty for adultery and it remains the same today; "The adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." And what is an adulterer? "the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife."
Jesus did not do away with the death penalty for adultery. Jesus simply refused to hear a case that was not brought before him in accordance with the law as the other participant...the man...was not brought before Him.
Kill both Sanford and the slut in Argentina. Thus spaketh the Lord.
So you're saying David should have been stoned to death for committing adultery with Bathsheba?
Some couples seem to get past it, some don't. In the case of Gov. Sanford and his wife, I'm not sure why she would want to take him back, but whatever.Quote:
Can marriage be repaired after an affair?
Kill them both ignores both the ruling that only those without sin may cast the stones, and the similar ruling, Judge not, lest ye be judged, which also decries the hypocrisy of those who judge others harshly for offenses they overlook in themselves or those they wish to protect.
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Different references in each of the gospels:
Stoning till the death - there's the way to population control!
I think most marriages can be repaired after an affair. Repaired is the operative word here. After repair, it is never the same as it once was; just as the electrical cord that was "repaired" - those niggling thoughts in the back of your mind..."is that thing gonna spark someday and catch fire?". That repair is just a glossing over IMO. Both parties look and act towards one another differently afterward. The adulterer never seems to be able to do enough for the partner they hurt. The one hurt always has a question lurking around in their head. They cover those feelings up and go on like in a fog. Some live out the rest of their lives like that. Others that I've known have lived with their repaired marriage till they cannot do it any longer and they seek divorce and go their separate ways. Depends on the parties concerned I guess.
Of course this is an age old issue and will continue to be. Working environments around the world are breeding places for affairs.
The Clintons seem to have managed very well. I guess it depends on the personalities involved.
They both should have been, however; as his actions were not pleasing to he Lord, the punishment upon David was much worse. The spawn of the sin was killed at a young age and David's house was cursed. The final insult was Solomon taking the throne.Quote:
Originally Posted by elganned
The bible is clear. Marriage is between one man and one woman for all time...except when it isn't and that is only for certain reasons that are pleasing to the Lord our God. According to Sanford, NOM, the AFA, Focus on the Family..and the like, nothing biblical when concerning Marriage is untrue nor open to any interpretation and we, as a society, MUST abide by the 2000 years of biblical definition of, and prohibitions contained therein. Marriage is between one man and one woman and adultery is a sin punishable by death. The end.
Kill them both.
I feel blessed to know that even if this State is full of backsliders and will not follow God's law, we'll still put adulterers away for life in prison.
Quote:
Adultery could mean life, court finds That's what the law says in sex-drug case Cox appealed
January 15, 2007
BY BRIAN DICKERSON
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST
In a ruling sure to make philandering spouses squirm, Michigan's second-highest court says that anyone involved in an extramarital fling can be prosecuted for first-degree criminal sexual conduct, a felony punishable by up to life in prison.
"We cannot help but question whether the Legislature actually intended the result we reach here today," Judge William Murphy wrote in November for a unanimous Court of Appeals panel, "but we are curtailed by the language of the statute from reaching any other conclusion."
"Technically," he added, "any time a person engages in sexual penetration in an adulterous relationship, he or she is guilty of CSC I," the most serious sexual assault charge in Michigan's criminal code.
I think you're confused. Solomon was the "spawn" of David and Bathsheba, and was not killed at a young age [[that was Absalom). Also Solomon seemed to find enough favor with the Lord to be allowed to build the first temple.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Maybe you should re-read Samuel and Kings again to refresh your memory.
So, God waives his own immutable and inviolate rules whenever the mood strikes Him? Then how can we know when it's "pleasing to the Lord" and when it's not? Maybe Sanford's affair is "pleasing", as was David's.Quote:
The bible is clear. Marriage is between one man and one woman for all time...except when it isn't and that is only for certain reasons that are pleasing to the Lord our God.
Or are you presuming to speak for God and tell us when it "pleases" Him and when it doesn't?
Mark Sanford has a better chance of fixing South Carolina's economy than he does his marriage.
Jacob not only had two wives, but they were sisters--something else explicitly prohibited by Mosaic Law. [[In Numbers, Leviticus, or Deuteronomy...I can't remember where, maybe in more than one place. You can look it up if you like.)Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
God didn't seem to have a problem with it; He not only didn't mind, he made of Jacob a "great nation".
You think maybe He just makes it up as He goes along?
Quote:
So you're saying David should have been stoned to death for committing adultery with Bathsheba?
I always thought he had the 'one after God's own heart' get-out-of-stoning-free card.
Wasn't it the worse offense to scheme to send her husband to the front lines of a war to make sure he died?!
I get SO confused trying to figure out all this stuff.
I'll just go stone myself. Heh.
"Well I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned." :)
I was unclear in my haste...as we all know, Solomon was the son of Bathsheba and David, however it was the spawn of the adulterous affair that was killed. The pregnancy of Bathsheba was what lead to the conspiracy to kill her husband. My point was that Solomon was not the eldest son. Adonijah was the heir ahead of Solomon. Bathsheba convinced David to elevate Solomon. Absalom lead set off a civil war and was eventually put to death IIRC....and eventually so was Adoinjah. I forget why.Quote:
I think you're confused. Solomon was the "spawn" of David and Bathsheba, and was not killed at a young age [[that was Absalom). Also Solomon seemed to find enough favor with the Lord to be allowed to build the first temple.
I don't presume to speak for the Lord. His ways are mysterious. Only the Lord can be in the business of bringing good out of evil.Quote:
So, God waives his own immutable and inviolate rules whenever the mood strikes Him? Then how can we know when it's "pleasing to the Lord" and when it's not? Maybe Sanford's affair is "pleasing", as was David's.
Solomon was David's oldest child by Bathsheba. No others are mentioned, that I recall. So the spawn of the adultery was not killed, or at least wasn't reported so we couldn't know of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
The conspiracy was hatched by David because he wanted to marry her, which he couldn't do so long as she was married to Uriah. Nowhere does it mention any pregnancy.Quote:
The pregnancy of Bathsheba was what lead to the conspiracy to kill her husband.
Quite true. Amnar was David's oldest son, but Absalom had him killed.Quote:
My point was that Solomon was not the eldest son.
Absalom was killed by Joab at the battle of Ephraim Wood--expressly against David's orders, BTW.Quote:
Absalom set off a civil war and was eventually put to death IIRC
Solomon had Adonijah killed because he thought his brother would be a rival claimant to the throne. He not only had him killed, he violated God's tabernacle to do it; Adonijah was struck down while holding the horns of the altar, which allegedly gave him sanctuary.Quote:
....and eventually so was Adoinjah. I forget why.
Solomon wasn't a very nice man, taken altogether. But he lived a long full life, so presumably God didn't mind.So then maybe we should let the Lord do his own smiting, and leave off all this talk of stoning. After all, He's made exceptions in the past. Maybe this is one, too.Quote:
I don't presume to speak for the Lord. His ways are mysterious. Only the Lord can be in the business of bringing good out of evil.
Let me get that thorn out of your paw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sstashmoo
I said No. )
It can never be restored to the way it was before the betrayal in terms of trust. Can a workable relationship be salvaged however? Maybe.
After Nathan calls David out, David confesses his sin and expects to die. 2 Samuel 12:13, "Then David exclaimed to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord!” Nathan replied to David, “Yes, and the Lord has forgiven your sin. You are not going to die."Quote:
So then maybe we should let the Lord do his own smiting, and leave off all this talk of stoning. After all, He's made exceptions in the past. Maybe this is one, too.
2 Samuel 12:14-15- [[Nathan speaking to David) Nonetheless, because you have treated the Lord with such contempt in this matter, the son who has been born to you will certainly die. Then Nathan went to his home. The Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and the child became very ill.Quote:
Solomon was David's oldest child by Bathsheba. No others are mentioned, that I recall. So the spawn of the adultery was not killed, or at least wasn't reported so we couldn't know of it.
[[Bathsheba is alternatively referred to as Bathsheba and "Uriah's wife" at various points in the telling)
David got out of the death penalty because per 1 Kings 15:4-5 "Nevertheless for David’s sake the Lord his God maintained his dynasty Jerusalem by giving him a son to succeed him and by protecting Jerusalem. He did this because David had done what he approved and had not disregarded any of his commandments his entire lifetime, except for the incident involving Uriah the Hittite.
So, as punishment for his sin David suffered the loss of the child conceived through the sinful union of David and Bathsheba. David's daughter will be raped by one of his sons. Absalom murders Amnon. Then Absalom, rebel's against David and usurps the throne. In the process, he will sleep with some of David's concubines, before all Israel, and on the roof of the palace from which David first saw Bathsheba. All of these things are directly or indirectly the consequences of David’s sin with Bathsheba.
So, Sanford ...I guess, could avoid stoning if his transgression was a one time thing and the rest of his life was pleasing to God. But that is up to God. In any event, there were still consequences and repentance, not an absolution without being put through some trials and tribulations. Sweeping it all under the rug and giving softball interviews to Fox news is not repentance.
I re-read the pertinent passages and you are right about the first child. I stand corrected.
Still, it doesn't explain why God didn't smite Solomon, who not only committed murder in God's very presence [[Adonijah) but set up altars to foreign gods for his wives and even put an Asherah, a sacred pole, in the temple, where it remained until Josiah took it out decades later.
Seems He was sorta arbitrary in whom He smote and whom He didn't...or was David's adultery a greater sin than Solomon's sin of setting up false idols?
Next you're going to say all of Leviticus needs to be thrown out.Quote:
Originally Posted by elganned