Politics makes strange bedfellows: Coleman Young and Pat Colbeck were the main dissenting votes [[voted against the most packages, CY against all 9).
The DIA anti-millage bill was not brought to a vote.
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Politics makes strange bedfellows: Coleman Young and Pat Colbeck were the main dissenting votes [[voted against the most packages, CY against all 9).
The DIA anti-millage bill was not brought to a vote.
This CY was in favor of all 9. Glad to see that for the first time in my lifetime, it sounds like we've got the adults in charge again. What I'm curious to hear is how Duggan and Brenda Jones are working so well together.
Discussion on Facebook by DPD retirees is getting strong. A number of those championing a "Reject" vote are adamant in their protests. But I think the majority will accept the current proposal, leaving the dollar amounts in the pension pretty well untouched, despite a real kick in the ass on healthcare issues.
Me? I'm in favor. The Retired Detroit Police and Fire Fighters Association [[RDPFFA) and their attorneys have strongly recommended an "accept" vote. I don't know how things are going on the General Retirement fund people. But they have Social Security to fall back on; police and fire fighters do not.
On the other hand, I'll be 78 this fall, and have enough outside the pension fund to see me comfortably for the rest of my days, so I'll not stew about it. I saved my graft money. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1936
Hey Ray, haven't seen you here lately, glad to see you. I voted yay and all my GR friends have done the same. It will only be after all the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted that I'll feel comfortable. I'll never trust the city again.
state implemented emergency manager law against all of michigan voters who voted it downQuote:
Originally Posted by cla1945
state imposed kevyn orr as manager of detroit
state + orr filed bankruptcy
state + orr made those bargains to defund your pensions against the state constitution
and you blame the city?
well done.
Well it was the city that signed the consent agreement and then failed to live up to their promise. In fairness though, I agree that this wasn't the city's fault. But I also don't think it's the state's fault. I think it's everyone's fault, which is why I'm glad everyone is paying a price.Quote:
Originally Posted by compn
How does less than $1 billion of other people's money get Detroit out of $18 billion of debt?
Bankruptcy law.Quote:
Originally Posted by coracle
That's the whole point of it, right?
I'd say that's a fair assignment of blame. The city was miss managed across the board for years, the retirement fund suffered as a result...the state didn't get you there, they are just cleaning up the mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by compn
Well yes... I blame the city. The city frittered away your money. The State & Orr are only working with what they have. You are free to dislike the bankruptcy process -- but you can't blame Orr & Snyder for mismanaging you pension moneys for decades, can you.Quote:
Originally Posted by compn
You might as well blame the firefighters in Detroit for fires, too. No. They don't set them -- they just put them out.
This bankruptcy has been festering longer than…
“…If Mayors Jerome Cavanagh and Roman Gribbs had cut the workforce in the 1960s and early 1970s as the population and property values dropped. If Mayor Dennis Archer hadn’t added more than 1,100 employees in the 1990s when the city was flush but still losing population. If Kilpatrick had shown more fiscal discipline and not launched a borrowing spree to cover operating expenses that continued into Mayor Dave Bing’s tenure. Over five decades, there were many ‘if only’ moments…” ifa, coulda, shoulda, woulda
There’s plenty of blame to go around…
http://www.freep.com/interactive/art...nsion-revenue#
The last time Detroit had a mayor who understood bookkeeping was when Albert Cobo was the mayor.
Well 99 Percenters, my comrades WE WON! Detroit will be bailing out for their mess. But Detroit still got a long way in order to rise from it ashes.
SPERAMVS MELIORA RESVRGET CINNERIBVS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermod
...and being a racist, too.
"The last time Detroit had a mayor who understood bookkeeping was when Albert Cobo was the mayor."
The guy who bulldozed whole areas of the city in the name of redevelopment? Sounds like a real genius.
"The condemnation of property in Black Bottom began in 1950 and continued for three years. This initial development contained seventy-two acres, fifty-five of which would be residential development and seventeen would be set aside for a park. With great anticipation the city conducted a lottery for the cleared land in July of ‘52 to determine who the lucky builders would be to transform this former slum into an urban utopia. It was then that something unexpected happened. Much to the city’s consternation, no one bid on the land. The silence at city hall was deafening. An embarrassed Mayor Cobo named a twelve man committee to fabricate solutions."
http://www.detroits-great-rebellion....n-Renewal.html
or for those looking for more scholarly take on Cobo's folly and the racism underlying his actions:
http://goodspeedupdate.com/RobGoodsp...norsThesis.pdf
I was really questioning if it would work out in practice or could it be the prelude to further demands for our taxes at regular intervals using the same debt as the excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by corktownyuppie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novine
Bro let it go it was 60+ years ago. Enough already. Yes it was poor planning, but the feds made money available to do this sort of work. It was not an uncommon thing to do 60+ years ago. What is uncommon is that unlike many cities, we got LaFayette Park and a semi-successful industrial part of Corktown. Stuff like this also evenutally led to NEPA, which is a good thing.
Now compare this to Poletown. That should really p!$$ you off.
My parents are very relieved with this [[the main topic of the thread) as City retirees. It could have been far worse.
You don't move forward very fast if you are continuously being bitter about the past.
So he was racist. That has nothing to do with this thread -- which was about bookkeeping. Racists can be good bookkeepers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novine
Your distaste for his personal beliefs is not relevant, nor really interesting. Overt racists views were more commonplace then.
There is the argument that the city could have a stronger tax base than what currently exists in the areas that we "urban redeveloped", and I think it's a valid argument. The destruction of certain neighborhoods, regardless of ulterior motive, did come directly before major trouble in the city and the begin of the long population decline.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
Detroit's bankruptcy is not just about washing away current debt, but most about structuring a 'sustainable' budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by coracle
Detroit does have a lot of revenue. Its just not enough to carry $18 billion. Maybe its enough to carry $17 billion. Or some other smaller number.
You don't have to, nor want to eliminate all debt. You simply want to restructure city finances.
How? A 'grand bargain' combining debt elimination, increased efficiency, reduced city services, more police, improved practices, and a relatively small dash of contributions by workers, retirees, vendors, and unions.
Cobo was the finance guy at Burroughs when Detroit was going into the toilet before WWII. Cobo was named city treasurer and brought some measure of discipline to the budgeting and accounting operations. He later ran for council and then mayor. If he had been elected governor in 1956, the state of Michigan may not have been circling the drain in 1962.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novine
Best 15 word post on these boards ever. I bow to thee and thy lawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
Let's learn nothing from the past. Demolition Geo. Jackson would have made Cobo proud.