Detroit Public Schools proposed new District

So what does everyone think? I was expecting something bolder. Discuss.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...haul/26633019/

I can't imagine what would be a bolder plan that also doesn't completely cause a statewide riot.

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Originally Posted by animatedmartian

I can't imagine what would be a bolder plan that also doesn't completely cause a statewide riot.

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I was thinking along the same lines.

I think this is about the right approach to finding a path to better education for students, in the real world. I would dissolve the school board tomorrow, and create several new boards. I'd ban unions and any other force that works against progress.

But in the real world, this seems like a bold enough plan to be 'relentless progress', but not so much as to inspire the paranoid to act to keep Detroit kids down.

I think that right now would be the time to auction off that condo DPS owns in the Fisher building in the same auction as the building and move administration to a soon to be closed school. Administrators don't deserve nicer space than the children learn in considering how bad of a job they have been doing as of late.

If Snyder is working on school reform the problem of any parent being able to sign off on home schooling without any qualification obviously needs to be addressed ASAP after the recent tragedy where the children ended up in a freezer instead of in school where a teacher might have had a chance to recognize the abuse.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

I think that right now would be the time to auction off that condo DPS owns in the Fisher building in the same auction as the building and move administration to a soon to be closed school. Administrators don't deserve nicer space than the children learn in considering how bad of a job they have been doing as of late.

If Snyder is working on school reform the problem of any parent being able to sign off on home schooling without any qualification obviously needs to be addressed ASAP after the recent tragedy where the children ended up in a freezer instead of in school where a teacher might have had a chance to recognize the abuse.

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Maybe they should sell some buildings. Oh, I forgot, they left them all open to scrapping and vandalism.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I think this is about the right approach to finding a path to better education for students, in the real world. I would dissolve the school board tomorrow, and create several new boards. I'd ban unions and any other force that works against progress.

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Why ban unions. Are you implying that's what's holding DPS back? Aren't teachers in successful districts [[i.e Grosse Point, Birmingham, Northville) also represented by unions?

Yeah, say that again! The former Hutchins school sits nearly completely gutted and stripped [[the scrappers are now starting to remove the bricks) with a GIANT 'For Sale DPS' sign in front of it.

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Originally Posted by Gpwrangler

Maybe they should sell some buildings. Oh, I forgot, they left them all open to scrapping and vandalism.

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Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Why ban unions. Are you implying that's what's holding DPS back? Aren't teachers in successful districts [[i.e Grosse Point, Birmingham, Northville) also represented by unions?

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Nice observation.

Do like Chris Christie, Scott Walker did. Suck up to the police unions and run against the teachers [[union).

It is called being 'consistently inconsistent.'

Of course, the more perceptive folks realize it is all about politics. One union votes Democrat and the other Republican.

So it is: "I like unions which like me and I dislike unions which... [[fill in the blank, it is parallel)".

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Originally Posted by Gpwrangler

Maybe they should sell some buildings. Oh, I forgot, they left them all open to scrapping and vandalism.

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were any of them marketable in the first place? I mean if they were in intact neighborhoods and areas that didn't have dearth of empty space, would they have been abandoned?

Frankly, what they should have done was scrap them before the scrappers.

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Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Why ban unions. Are you implying that's what's holding DPS back? Aren't teachers in successful districts [[i.e Grosse Point, Birmingham, Northville) also represented by unions?

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Unions bargain wages AND working conditions. Wage inflation isn't the problem. Frankly, teachers are paid well enough. But there's reasonable an argument for paying more.

What isn't acceptable however is union intrusion into working conditions. This is where the Union encourages the status quo. Changes are necessary, and experimentation is essential. Wanna try larger class size? Wanna institute pay for performance? How about some new ideas on evaluating teachers? Good luck getting that into your collective bargaining agreement.

Split DPS! What is Snyder, the geek is thinking, bad ideal! He's going the Detroit School district to the ground! He can kiss his chance for president goodbye!

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Originally Posted by bailey

were any of them marketable in the first place? I mean if they were in intact neighborhoods and areas that didn't have dearth of empty space, would they have been abandoned?

Frankly, what they should have done was scrap them before the scrappers.

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Those buildings would have lasted 1000 years the way they were built. I used to do some painting and maintenance in the buildings in my younger days and was amazed at the care the custodians took of them. Even the boiler rooms were immaculate. I remember the plenum chambers doubled as fallout shelters with rations and water, and those areas were immaculate too.

Makes me me sick to see the criminal neglect of those buildings while the homeless have nowhere to go. Absolute shit-for-brains mentality.

Bailey, you made an observant comment about a Detroit Public School in this thread:

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...chitects/page2

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

If Snyder is working on school reform the problem of any parent being able to sign off on home schooling without any qualification obviously needs to be addressed ASAP after the recent tragedy where the children ended up in a freezer instead of in school where a teacher might have had a chance to recognize the abuse.

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Better review stats on abuse before enacting "reforms".

I come at this from the perspective, which I have often expressed before, that the DPS should not exist. So creating a new DPS doesn't really excite me, and I doubt that the governance reforms, whatever they end up being, will make any significant difference.

What this appears to be to me is an attempt to give the legislature plausible deniability while funding the DPS debt--you move all the operating activities into an new entity, but let the old entity keep some funding to pay off the debt. Then the new entity doesn't have enough funding, so you give the new entity an additional funding source. This is supposed to entice the Legislature into coughing up the extra money, but I doubt that the Legislature will be interested, so I am skeptical that this will happen at all.

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Originally Posted by Gpwrangler

Better review stats on abuse before enacting "reforms".

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C'mon GP, just baby steps at first. The words "change" or "reform" are not actually dirty. Its kinda like the evolution engine, you were shocked at first but it turned out okay didn't it? This will be too. Education is very important for children. If a parent or guardian is not capable at all of home schooling like the example I mentioned, then the state could help determine that, right? If government can not help protect women or children then there really is no point in having government.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

C'mon GP, just baby steps at first. The words "change" or "reform" are not actually dirty. Its kinda like the evolution engine, you were shocked at first but it turned out okay didn't it? This will be too. Education is very important for children. If a parent or guardian is not capable at all of home schooling like the example I mentioned, then the state could help determine that, right? If government can not help protect women or children then there really is no point in having government.

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Missed my point as usual. Need to look at abuse stats for public school kids and compare to other methods instead of watching clips of the "freezer" story. But carry on, please.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

I come at this from the perspective, which I have often expressed before, that the DPS should not exist. So creating a new DPS doesn't really excite me, and I doubt that the governance reforms, whatever they end up being, will make any significant difference.

What this appears to be to me is an attempt to give the legislature plausible deniability while funding the DPS debt--you move all the operating activities into an new entity, but let the old entity keep some funding to pay off the debt. Then the new entity doesn't have enough funding, so you give the new entity an additional funding source. This is supposed to entice the Legislature into coughing up the extra money, but I doubt that the Legislature will be interested, so I am skeptical that this will happen at all.

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MW, I agree that failed institutions should be allowed to die. Don't you think, however, that Snyder is actually doing the right thing here? He's helping DPS find the reset button, so at least moving forward they have a chance. I don't agree with everything about this, but I respect that Snyder is again showing that he's willing to do the unpopular to help Detroit. And of course the Detroit Chorus of Boos for Snyder sings loudly.

Funny how people say they want bi-partisanship. Except they also want to hate the other party for every 'crime' they've committed and are unable to see cooperation in any actions.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

MW, I agree that failed institutions should be allowed to die. Don't you think, however, that Snyder is actually doing the right thing here? He's helping DPS find the reset button, so at least moving forward they have a chance. I don't agree with everything about this, but I respect that Snyder is again showing that he's willing to do the unpopular to help Detroit. And of course the Detroit Chorus of Boos for Snyder sings loudly.

Funny how people say they want bi-partisanship. Except they also want to hate the other party for every 'crime' they've committed and are unable to see cooperation in any actions.

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I agree that this is an attempt by Gov. Snyder to help the city, which is something in general I think he wants to do. I didn't think I was being critical of him. But I don't think this plan would make a significant difference in the schools if it happened, and I don't think it will happen because I don't think the Legislature will come up with the additional money.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

I agree that this is an attempt by Gov. Snyder to help the city, which is something in general I think he wants to do. I didn't think I was being critical of him. But I don't think this plan would make a significant difference in the schools if it happened, and I don't think it will happen because I don't think the Legislature will come up with the additional money.

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I didn't mean to suggest to you [[mw) were being critical of Snyder. I was addressing the knee-jerk liberals who hate rather than love those with whom they disagree.

Snyder may not get this through the legislature, but that also doesn't mean that the legislators are 'evil' [[although perhaps some are). They may have different opinions about Detroit [[and her School District). Perhaps they believe as I do that funding failures after the fact perpetuates moral hazard in Detroit's leaders, and ultimately will do more harm than good.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

I come at this from the perspective, which I have often expressed before, that the DPS should not exist. So creating a new DPS doesn't really excite me, and I doubt that the governance reforms, whatever they end up being, will make any significant difference.

What this appears to be to me is an attempt to give the legislature plausible deniability while funding the DPS debt--you move all the operating activities into an new entity, but let the old entity keep some funding to pay off the debt. Then the new entity doesn't have enough funding, so you give the new entity an additional funding source. This is supposed to entice the Legislature into coughing up the extra money, but I doubt that the Legislature will be interested, so I am skeptical that this will happen at all.

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I had to review the GM bailout plan and Snyder seems to be creating a state level version. The administration practices would have to change......

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Unions bargain wages AND working conditions. Wage inflation isn't the problem. Frankly, teachers are paid well enough. But there's reasonable an argument for paying more.

What isn't acceptable however is union intrusion into working conditions. This is where the Union encourages the status quo. Changes are necessary, and experimentation is essential. Wanna try larger class size? Wanna institute pay for performance? How about some new ideas on evaluating teachers? Good luck getting that into your collective bargaining agreement.

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Perhaps the most ignorant, completely biased thing I've read here in a while.

Teacher wages are not "well enough". That's noted in many primary sources.

Any amount of honest research of primary sources as to why Unions bargain working conditions would provide foundation context to keep your posts honest on this subject.

You wouldn't last one month, let alone one week, being a public school teacher.

And I completely expect to you spit back something that will try and come off as having some sort of experience in public ed as a means to prop up your feeble spew.

It never fails with jokers like you.

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Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

Perhaps the most ignorant, completely biased thing I've read here in a while.

Teacher wages are not "well enough". That's noted in many primary sources.

Any amount of honest research of primary sources as to why Unions bargain working conditions would provide foundation context to keep your posts honest on this subject.

You wouldn't last one month, let alone one week, being a public school teacher.

And I completely expect to you spit back something that will try and come off as having some sort of experience in public ed as a means to prop up your feeble spew.

It never fails with jokers like you.

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Sorry, no public ed experience. Might explain why I don't buy their story.

I respect the need to bargain some working conditions. Coal miners have valid issues with safety, as an obvious example. No problem with 'collective bargaining' here. When a worker prevents a trade-show exhibiter from carrying their own supplies to their booth, that's not a working condition. Its an abuse of the idea.

I want the School Board to have the power to make reasonable decisions about how to teach. I don't believe the Union should be able to get rules cast in stone that prevent innovation, no matter how well intentioned. One entity should be running the schools. The other should be making sure employees are paid fairly and not subjected to unreasonable working conditions. They should not be able to set education policy.