Winter is coming and it is gonig to be a cold one this year. Ever sit in you warm bed and listen to the wind whipping outside and wonder what it would be like to be outside trying to sleep on the street?
I have submitted a proposal to the Pepsi Refresh Project to try to get $5000 to purchase supplies for the homeless in Detroit to try to help them get through the winter. I am teaming with the NOAH project in Detroit for distribution. I am doing this as a service project and will receive no personal compensation for my work.
The idea is to buy military surplus cold weather gear and supply these items to the homeless. Why military surplus? Because it can be cheap as it is sold in bulk, it is designed to be rugged enough for combat situations and therefore can withstand long periods of exposure better than store bought items, and it is designed for extreme weather conditions. My [[admittedly unscientific) calculations indicate that $5000 would approximately translate into $65000 worth of goods.
Every winter, there are people in Detroit who lose their fingers and toes to the cold and there are a few who freeze to death. This is a horrible way to go. Not to mention frostbite which causes skin to become even more sensitive to the cold and causes even more pain when it gets colder out.
Whoosh...the sound of something going over someone's head. :)
November-12-10, 04:38 PM
Hazen S. Pingree
Ok, you got me there. I have no idea what you are talking about. You win!
November-13-10, 12:02 AM
Bearinabox
nevermind.
November-13-10, 05:58 AM
gnome
There is long established forum member with the name HazenPingree. He has been a member of this forum for years and only changed his name to HazenPingree when we switched to a new format last spring.
Hazen S, Pingree is a new person here. I am not seeing anywhere in your history or your post where you have established enough crediblity to ask for help to raise money for your cause. In a way you have covered your face and are demanding help while slightly misusing the name of a long-established member. Maybe I'm wrong, plz set me straight.
Moreover, your plan to buy army surplus winter gear is ill advised. Have you ever bought in bulk from the government? It is a skill that is learned. Having a good heart does not qualify you. Have you considered distribution? You planning to roll a deuce and half through town dropping 300 pound tents on every corner? You planning to set up a tent city? Where? Campus Martius? Cass Park? The Eddystone Plateau?
Have you noticed all the other organizations that are oufitting the homeless with army surplus gear? Organizations that have been around since before your grandparents were born and they are not doing that. Have you asked yourself why? Have you asked them why not?
One of the remarkable things about Detroit is the number of nice groups that want to do good things for the citizens; however, every one of them has a different idea on how to save the world, and they refuse to let go of their version of right.
I detect you have a kind soul and you want to do good things. I suggest you join an existing group like the Salvation Army and serve for a few years before you grab the baton and rush to the front of the line. Learning to follow is a very important skill. It is not a mark against your character to be the best follower of all time. In fact you need to follow before you can lead.
November-13-10, 10:16 AM
Hazen S. Pingree
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnome
There is long established forum member with the name HazenPingree. He has been a member of this forum for years and only changed his name to HazenPingree when we switched to a new format last spring.
Hazen S, Pingree is a new person here. I am not seeing anywhere in your history or your post where you have established enough crediblity to ask for help to raise money for your cause. In a way you have covered your face and are demanding help while slightly misusing the name of a long-established member. Maybe I'm wrong, plz set me straight.
This is not an intention to mislead in any way. I picked a random name of a famous Detroiter.
Quote:
Moreover, your plan to buy army surplus winter gear is ill advised. Have you ever bought in bulk from the government? It is a skill that is learned. Having a good heart does not qualify you. Have you considered distribution? You planning to roll a deuce and half through town dropping 300 pound tents on every corner? You planning to set up a tent city? Where? Campus Martius? Cass Park? The Eddystone Plateau?
Yes, I have and yes, I have considered it. I am working with another organization that is helping me. Given past experience that Bear has so kindly pointed out, I would rather not mention their name. There was never an intention to buy tents.
Quote:
Have you noticed all the other organizations that are oufitting the homeless with army surplus gear? Organizations that have been around since before your grandparents were born and they are not doing that. Have you asked yourself why? Have you asked them why not?
No, they outfit them with dollar store items that wear out quickly. Why do they not use surplus? I would guess that because until recently it was hard to buy and to know when the auctions were held.
Quote:
One of the remarkable things about Detroit is the number of nice groups that want to do good things for the citizens; however, every one of them has a different idea on how to save the world, and they refuse to let go of their version of right.
I detect you have a kind soul and you want to do good things. I suggest you join an existing group like the Salvation Army and serve for a few years before you grab the baton and rush to the front of the line. Learning to follow is a very important skill. It is not a mark against your character to be the best follower of all time. In fact you need to follow before you can lead.
Again, I am working with an organization similar to Salvation Army. This is simply a small fundraising exercise for a local non-profit. I really don't understand where the vitriol comes from. They have a wishlist and I offered to try to fulfill it. Horrible me.
November-13-10, 11:23 AM
gnome
Vitriol? Excuse me? Vitriol? I said, "... you have a kind soul and want to do good things...". I asked you to explain yourself and your organization. You have explained yourself, but not the organization you represent other than to say," it is similar to the Salvation Army."
To be frank, whenever I see non-profits recoil at simple requests for clarification, the red flags appear and flares go off. It is a tactic common within the so-called religious community around these parts. Ask why and you get a lot of attitude and indignation. Not a good sign.
I do think you want to the right thing, but I'm not convinced you know what to do or the best way to do it. BTW, army surplus has been around since the Civil War ,if not before. Army/Navy retail stores became popular after the WWII, so please do not think it has been difficult to find or buy.
Now, if you would like that with a side of vitriol, that can be supplied, no charge.
November-13-10, 03:41 PM
Hazen S. Pingree
Sorry, gnome. I didn't mean you. I posted this idea to other bulletin boards where I was personally attacked and the organization that I am trying to help came under fire. That is what Bear is referring to with "nevermind". I am sure you know what bulletin board I mean. If you are really astute, you would recognize the organization from the video.
I am not part of some sect, it is just that the last thing I wanted to do was to hurt the organization that I am trying to help. I am NOT part of the organization, I do not work for them, and I am not paid by them. I am just an average guy trying to help out. So far, it seems that people are not interested. Ok, I get the message.
Oh, and buying from a Army/Navy surplus store is buying at retail prices. Buying from military surplus directly is buying at wholesale. Yes, you have been able to buy surplus before, but it was a complicated and convoluted process which sometimes involved you driving to the base for a live auction. Now, you can buy online. It is very easy and there is no reason why other non-profits couldn't do it if they so desired. If they are aware of the possibility? I couldn't tell you.
November-13-10, 04:58 PM
Left_For_Texas
I think the best way for someone to help Detroit would be to move into the city and pay taxes. Any takers?
November-13-10, 06:56 PM
Toolbox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazen S. Pingree
Sorry, gnome. I didn't mean you. I posted this idea to other bulletin boards where I was personally attacked and the organization that I am trying to help came under fire. That is what Bear is referring to with "nevermind". I am sure you know what bulletin board I mean. If you are really astute, you would recognize the organization from the video.
You were not personaly attacked until you started swinging. You were given very good advice on how to fund your effort besides the Pepsi gimmick.
You also stated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazen S. Pingree
If the items are discarded, then they will be picked up - probably by Clean Downtown which is run by Roger Penske. I seriously doubt that Mr. Penske would have a problem with ...
when asked wht would happen when the items were left to molder when winter is over.
Honestly, I was going to vote until I saw that the overhead is 20%. Most charitable organizations that I donate to do not have that high of an overhead.
The "overhead" is transportation. It is what it is. Once I am criticized for not thinking through logistics, then I am criticized for spending too much on said logistics. Of course these are estimates [[as are ANY line items on ANY proposal). I would try to get the transportation donated [[which I would have a good chance of doing), but if that didn't work then I would need a line item to pay for it.
Of course, if you calculate the overhead according to the estimated value of the items purchased and not the actual purchase price, then it isn't over 20%.
November-13-10, 09:52 PM
Hazen S. Pingree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox
You were not personaly attacked until you started swinging. You were given very good advice on how to fund your effort besides the Pepsi gimmick.
I believe the "You fucking self righteous useless asshole" came before the point where you claim I started "swinging". If that was not a personal attack, I am not sure what is.
Why not go for Pepsi money? Why should I form a 501 c 3, hire and grant writer and then conduct community hearing sessions, build a concensus, create a framework, form a collaboration, create a detailed budget, set evaluations metrics, form an exit strategy, submit the whole mess to ten different foundations to get one to agree to pay $5000 [[or not) and then realize that there is nothing left to actually give to the homeless. I am not interested in doing work just to employ consultants. That is exactly why I do not work in the non-profit field anymore. I saw too much money NOT being spent on the actual mission and lots of fat salaries. Lots of time wasted on stroking program manager's egos.
I am not saying that there are not people who go this route and do great work [[of course, they do not bother with $5000 grants), but I am not paid to do this. Various people are called to serve in different ways. I am not willing to form a 501 c 3 because I have other things to do and is not appropriate for a service project. Therefore the advice given was not requested and not appropriate for the situation. On one hand I am "being a dick" for getting a bit snarky and on the other hand I am called every name in the book and am "thin skinned" if I respond to it. Also, I mean come on - I am supposed to take advice from a woman whose avatar is a pair of tits on an anonymous bulletin board where people talk about making the homeless into food and no one objects? Hardly professional behavior and hard to take seriously.
I saw the Pepsi grant and thought it might be a way to help. I like the Pepsi project specifically because of the lack of bureaucracy, I also thought that keeping someone from freezing to death was a noble thing to do. Apparently, not many people agree with me and think that garbage collection is a more important issue. If you don't, don't vote. That is fine. Democracy at it's finest. By why do you have to tear down anyone who presents an original [[or even somewhat original) idea? This seems to be a particularly Detroit-thing to do. Whatever happened to constructive criticism?
Speaking of that, I heard the feedback that sleep bags might be a bad idea. What about sleeping mats that would be used year-round and could be taken with them? How about jacket liners? Weatherproof bags? Materials given to the shelters that would remain at the shelters? That would be a useful discussion to have. Rational dialog would have been nice. I obviously chose the wrong forum for that.
Every major city in America has homeless. You cannot wish them or bus them away. Disregarding the moral and legal issues for a moment, if you send them away then someone else will send them back.
Every year when it gets cold people will freeze to death and will get frostbite. These people will receive cold weather clothing somewhere. In the summer, some of them WILL discard their clothing and there WILL be a trash issue regardless of whether my project gets funding or not. I just intended to provide BETTER clothing so that people will not freeze as much. Apparently that makes me a "...... nozzle".
November-14-10, 09:34 AM
Toolbox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazen S. Pingree
Also, I mean come on - I am supposed to take advice from a woman whose avatar is a pair of tits on an anonymous bulletin board ....
That is cleavage and not tits. Something about a book and it's cover??
November-14-10, 10:17 AM
LodgeDodger
You need to learn some manners. The advice given to you by the cleavage-toting poster was excellent advice. Because a number of people aren't interested in your half-assed idea for "helping" the homeless, you turn into a pouty child. Your comments are shameful.
November-14-10, 11:08 AM
Hazen S. Pingree
What comments exactly are "shameful"? Because I think that someone is acting unprofessionally? Somehow I think her employer would agree with me on that one. Is she so thin skinned that any criticism of her is "shameful"?
I happen to disagree with her advice. I think that for small grants that it is ridiculous to require the same amount of work as in a full-blown grant process. I have applied to small corporate grants [[and probably to HER foundation if I am guessing right) and found that the amount of effort and costs involved is not worth it. Why should I hire a grant writer to go after a $1000 grant [[or even a $5000 grant) if hiring said grant writer is going to cost me $500 [[not to mention my time, the fees for an accountant, printing, etc. etc.) if I don't have a really good feeling about getting the grant? What if ten people apply for the same grant, each paying $500 to write the grant? Then the grant becomes a net cost to society.
If this is such good advice, then why are they having a conference to determine why they are not getting enough "quality" grant applications? Why? Because it is not worth it to a busy ED to go after such small grants. They are getting grants that were thrown together over a lunch break because that is the logical thing to do. Make the grants easier to get [[ala Pepsi) or make them larger. Even better would be to just choose a non-profit that they believe in and hand them the cash without making them jump through the hoops.
November-14-10, 09:15 PM
checkraisej
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazen S. Pingree
What comments exactly are "shameful"? Because I think that someone is acting unprofessionally? Somehow I think her employer would agree with me on that one. Is she so thin skinned that any criticism of her is "shameful"?
I happen to disagree with her advice. I think that for small grants that it is ridiculous to require the same amount of work as in a full-blown grant process. I have applied to small corporate grants [[and probably to HER foundation if I am guessing right) and found that the amount of effort and costs involved is not worth it. Why should I hire a grant writer to go after a $1000 grant [[or even a $5000 grant) if hiring said grant writer is going to cost me $500 [[not to mention my time, the fees for an accountant, printing, etc. etc.) if I don't have a really good feeling about getting the grant? What if ten people apply for the same grant, each paying $500 to write the grant? Then the grant becomes a net cost to society.
If this is such good advice, then why are they having a conference to determine why they are not getting enough "quality" grant applications? Why? Because it is not worth it to a busy ED to go after such small grants. They are getting grants that were thrown together over a lunch break because that is the logical thing to do. Make the grants easier to get [[ala Pepsi) or make them larger. Even better would be to just choose a non-profit that they believe in and hand them the cash without making them jump through the hoops.
Oh, please. It's clear you have no idea what you're doing so just stop right now before screw things up more. You were wrong about posting this on the other forum because you didn't do any research before hand. If you had, you would have known that that is not the place. Then, when someone who actually knows what the hell she's talking about gives you advice, you don't listen and shun her advice. There's two mistakes right there that are directly attributable to you not doing enough research and generally not knowing what the hell you're doing. Twice now, on seperate forums, you have asked for help and then proceeded to shit all over the people you asked for help. Just stop.
My memory might not be right, but a couple years ago, wasn't there some other young know it all that asked for advice, then continually disagreed with those who he sought advice from, even though he was wrong about just about everything? What was his name?
November-14-10, 10:47 PM
Hazen S. Pingree
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkraisej
Oh, please. It's clear you have no idea what you're doing so just stop right now before screw things up more. You were wrong about posting this on the other forum because you didn't do any research before hand. If you had, you would have known that that is not the place. Then, when someone who actually knows what the hell she's talking about gives you advice, you don't listen and shun her advice. There's two mistakes right there that are directly attributable to you not doing enough research and generally not knowing what the hell you're doing. Twice now, on seperate forums, you have asked for help and then proceeded to shit all over the people you asked for help. Just stop.
My memory might not be right, but a couple years ago, wasn't there some other young know it all that asked for advice, then continually disagreed with those who he sought advice from, even though he was wrong about just about everything? What was his name?
Wow, really? Shit all over? You all have me baffled.
I am not whomever you might think I am because I never have sought advice here before.
But I guess you are right. I am accomplishing nothing here so I will stop.
November-14-10, 11:01 PM
marcwigle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazen S. Pingree
Wow, really? Shit all over? You all have me baffled.
I am not whomever you might think I am because I never have sought advice here before.
But I guess you are right. I am accomplishing nothing here so I will stop.
Well... you have accomplished something... increasing the blood pressure of a few people around here... probably including your own. I think a lot of people are very wary of giving money to just anyone who asks for charity help. I know that I certainly am. I know nothing of the homeless situation in Detroit but I do know that the "homeless" is my city are not always homeless as they have made that choice. Far too many are just hanging around asking for handouts when they should be working. I don't give to anyone who supports these "homeless"... the ones who are truly sick need to be put into a hospital or similar institution to deal with their addictions or illnesses. Helping them to remain on the streets does not help them or us.
November-15-10, 12:58 AM
checkraisej
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazen S. Pingree
You all have me baffled.
That doesn't seem like it's too hard to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazen S. Pingree
I am not whomever you might think I am because I never have sought advice here before.
I didn't say you were him. I know you're not. I'm just saying that this happened before. Based on your actions the last few days, I would surmise that you're easily confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazen S. Pingree
But I guess you are right. I am accomplishing nothing here so I will stop.
That's the smartest thing you've said yet. Yes I am right, and yes, you should stop. At least until you think things through, do your research,, and come up with better ideas.
