https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...nglais-vehicle
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French-Tunisian truck terrorist Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel is gunned down after killing 84
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691019/Several-people-injured-truck-crashes-crowd-Bastille-Day-celebrations-Nice.html
Though praised by ISIS for his actions and a French citizen for years without being sought out on any threat list, Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/mohame...-nice-suspect/ [[as point 3 will demonstrate) was a hot-headed, intoxicated, pork-eating, non-praying, non-religious type. Religion-and Islam [[or refugees even) in particular-cannot be singled out or used by guys in their political campaigns.
Did he scream "Allahu Akbar"? Well, the media definitely screamed out and had him pegged as a terrorist, with many "experts" on CNN and MSNBC talking about terrorists and politics. Maybe there is more to surface.....
He may've just been one sickly disgruntled human being [[the kind we get here home-grown in the US on a monthly basis) looking to take out everyone and shoot it all to hell. Why he decided to do it on Bastille Day carrying Ice Cream and Hand Grenades, I cannot say?
Some of the 9/11 terrorists were also reported to have been boozing in days leading up to 9/11. Whether they were 'good Muslims' or 'bad Muslims', they weren't well vetted. It's strange that the press has since assumed the responsibility of defining good and bad Muslims for us. I have a quote by the head of the Islamic State who defined good Muslims differently than non-Muslim media opinion makers. Also, different cultures express and self-treat depression differently. We will never know if Mohammed [[the truck driver) plowed through the crowd to get his 72 virgins, self-treat his depression, or commit suicide. Multiple choices are possible.
There have been very little updates on this. In fact, attempts to get accurate searches on any given topic online seem to pull up ridiculous results pertaining either to Trump or recent violent events. I haven't been getting much sleep in general lately, and it's even worse for me as I'm lying awake trying to find answers.
There was talk of suspects and accomplices.....yet, all the reliable sources [[from NYTimes to BBC) insist that everyone who knew him said that he was hotheaded, not religious, and frazzled due to a divorce. I'm sure any terrorist group would praise someone if they did enough damage, though.
I can say as a Christian, there isn't one true confined path to walk to be a bonafide "Christian", but there are sure a lot of many bad paths the perpetrators, the fringe faiths, and the misled walk. The third most popular teaching in the New Testament is that of all around warning [[of course, for us to wisely examine ourselves first). Naturally, any perpetrators will admit there are false faiths and then deflect all attention away from them towards a safe unaffiliated target. Even worse, they may make it an all out disproportional emphasis to be crusaders looking to "expose" phonies. That being the case, if they call themselves "The [[one/lost) True Faith", then they just disqualified themselves right there with their condemning exclusion-ism and their spiritual arrogance unbefitting of those called to humble servants of Christ [[which is why I and a majority of Christians out there won't regard fringe faiths like the Mormons, JWs, or 7th day Adventists who say they "are the real deal and to hell with everyone else.").
If there is any basic giveaway of a false faith it is if one cannot adhere to the basic tenets of the Apostle's Creed [[especially if they were to deny the Holy Trinity).
The same can be said about crisis of genuineness for many of the Jewish faith. While I would never question the authenticity of the more Orthodox or maybe Hasidic Jews [[especially those I see and used to sell snowcones to in Oak Park or Lathrup Village) out there, I would probably question the more radically reformed ones in West Bloomfield buying their 14 yo. daughters boobjobs [[as my mother who used to work out there can attest) or the throngs of women in Brookline, MA gathering at bookstore basement to hear a New Age lecture on how to practice Wiccan magic better.
Yet, on the other hand, the ugly flurry of "are you good enough?" or "you must be a self-hating-" criticisms coming from hyper-judgmental separatist purists and "defamer seekers" of a given faith can get pretty dang chiding, as well.
Yet, on that similar note, there is an odd video from a man accused of being such a fundamental hotheaded purist by the media [[a former boxer named Pierre Vogel). The video shows him as a genuinely dedicated Muslim really digging into some guy who he is calling out as a fake Muslim who drew bad attention to himself and then-under questioning-doesn't even know his faith, practice, or customs. The man questioned seems dumbfounded. The video kind of makes both look bad.
If Pierre is right, though, then it only verifies that which I've said all along about those masquerading as phony fundamentalist Christians [[with tracts and bullhorns) at events, and those pretending to be rude panhandling homeless [[which I've seen many times), or even the young rude Mormon "elders" [[who were antagonistic emotions and no genuine knowledge of their own doctrine) who accosted me reading and eating on a park bench at the Dubuque library conveniently located across from a Masonic Lodge they seemed to have come from. One can wonder why anyone would disguise themselves as these? Simply put: under orders to sway public opinion [[it's been happening for a very long time with infiltrators and agents provocateurs long before Christianity-I saw it many times at marches during the Occupy movement).
By the way, the first victim reported to have been hit by this man and his truck was a Muslim grandmother.
Yesterday, a woman and her three daughters were stabbed on a French beach by an unidentified man who got away. It is tempting to assume he was Muslim but we don't know that. We have had at least two incidents of recent Muslim refugees raping or molesting girls in the US. Swedish and German girls are being advised to dress more modestly to prevent such incidents by Muslim males. Two days ago, an Afghan refugee attacked people on a German train with an axe. One of our recent police killers was not Muslim but had attended Muslim instruction classes. Another police killer had been [[past tense) a member of the Nation of Islam but made it clear that he didn't want his action to be affiliated with any group. Mohammed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, whose first name might be a hint, was not a "good Muslim" according to our press minders. However, today a report came out that he "had displayed a "clear, recent interest in the radical jihadist movement," growing a beard only in the last eight days after a previous life drinking alcohol and eating pork." "Boulel's uncle said his nephew was indoctrinated about two weeks ago by an Algerian member of ISIL in Nice."Quote:
Originally Posted by G-DDT
At least we have a clear choice to make regarding this trend. Trump wants a temporary suspension of Muslim immigration or, more recently, "extreme vetting" while Hillary said, "Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.” -Nov. 2015 tweet
I notice in many of your posts when you supply examples, you provide no links [[as I'm more than willing to do). While I can understand a skepticism towards the media, your story sources seem to be coming from dubious online conservative sources like The Telegraph or worse, FoxNews and WorldNetDaily that have an amazing capacity for fabrication and error [[http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/9...-Refugee-Videoand http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...t-urban-legend).Quote:
Originally Posted by oladub
The Afghan refugee [[the only story-of the few you cited-maintained by other more objective media sources) was an embittered 17 yo. was remains unnamed [[which makes things more dubious) http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/0...210931703.htmlWhile I'm aware that I'm citing AlJazeer, but as a person who has made it their business to study mass communications and the way media handles things for over 20 years, I feel the story is reliably reported there.
Yeah, he may've yelled what he did, and he may've been upset of a friend killed in Afghanistan, but someone can operate independently without approval [[or maybe with post-disaster approval) of a greater operation. There is a conservative group cited as wanting to use that situation to further their agenda. How difficult would it be to plant evidence [[or the matter of "the police sprinkling a little crack on the dead body" as Chris Rock would put it), like an easily attainable ISIL flag in his "room"? Remember Colson wanted to plant black panther literature in the room of financially poor [[yet, oddly funded enough to travel a campaign circuit) Wallace shooter Arthur Bremer, and it surprised the FBI that Colson had Bremer's address before they did?
No one is still proving accurately to me that the Nice truck massacre driver [[with sprawling 8 day old beard?!) was directly linked to any terrorist group, though his actions may be praised as such groups [[as I'm sure any Anti-American terrorist group would praise the Unabomber or Timothy McVeigh). When I type in "bouhiel's uncle indoctrinated"-I get Google lists that won't let me further narrow down by "find" that actual "story". A majority of the mainstream media outlets [[including CNN as of ten yours ago) maintain he had no "direct links".
To try to connect the recent African American police-shooters by scant degrees is to also to play the game Carson did to connect Hilary Clinton [[our past Secretary of State from the last four years in a country that has not "hailed Satan" as of completely yet) with the "Devil" http://religionnews.com/2016/07/20/b...-to-the-devil/.
We need to start defining terrorism when those [[like the vet, Garza in Houston-a Trump supporter-http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/housto...tified-who-is/- traded over 200 bullets with cops on memorial Day weekend or Dalton, the Uber driver, who asked one of his victims if he would help "Make America Great Again"http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Kalamazoo.html) within our own country start taking over Oregon facilities and fire on police [[remember those who defended Cliven Bundy on DY or even Sean Hannity of Foxnews http://www.cc.com/video-clips/ehanpl...f-cliven-bundy? This was an organization http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta..._militant.htmldefended by "Militia" groups-whose actions can be compare to being like terrorists if they target a specific hatred towards a group-ala' KKK, Know-Nothing-Party, or Black Legion if you've forgotten this country's intolerant isolationist past-like the one run by Gary Hunt who defends McVeigh) or those who walk into a Planned Parenthoods in Colorado http://heavy.com/news/2015/11/robert...ive-age-white/and injure [[and kill?) police [[which has been described as "domestic terrorism"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colora...thood_shooting). The same can be said for those walking into a North Carolina church after posing with Confedrate flags and white supremacist regalia [[to bring up the issue of whether he was "directly linked" to such an intolerant conservative collective) perpetrating mass murder, and then getting safely escorted out by police in bulletproof vests.
Are these not terrorsits, as well? Who are they connected with? Who do they target?
Now unless anyone has a nice collection of objectively reported examples of evidence coming from reliable examples proving that "all Muslims" are the real terrorists in this country. By all means prove you know what you are talking about, and all will be weighed by what I trust is a competant collective of viewers on DY.
Yet, if you are just going to clutch at straws to fulfill already predetermined conclusion of prejudice you have on a certain group, than I have no need to tangle with swine.
We already have enough roof that not everyone on DY is who they appear to be. Many are not from Michigan or truly care about Detroit. Many are from Oakland County who never have to set foot in a Krogers to shop or see how things really fair in Wayne County suburbs like Dearborn or Dearborn Heights. Yet, they make assumptions on scores of comment forums saying Dearborn is under "Sharia Law" [[just type in "Snopes" and "Dearborn" on Google, and the many debunked and far-flung mass hysteria rumors are astounding), or they like to come up here and start trouble [[ie. "Rev." Terry Jones or Ruben Israel).
But by all mean, show your irresponsible zeal for "freedom of speech" and have your petty last word on the matter.
Regarding Muslims in Dearborn, I've witnessed charity coming from almost [[almost) every religious group out there [[including those I've heavily criticized-like the Mormons-to be fair), and Muslims are no exception. Access in Dearborn has befitted many groups within and without their religious base http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...41458717-story [[pardon the Fox link). I've seen it in Dearborn and both Rochester NY & MN.
I've watched anyone remotely resembling a Muslim targeted by Homeland Security harassment [[like the poor medical student at a Rochester, NY Greyhound terminal withheld to miss three bus departures to get back to NYC by an ugly display of open prejudice). Is that what we want more of in this country? As A Christian I would protect these people the way Christians protected Jews in Nazi Germany. I believe strongly in the terminology St. Paul uses when referring to "all men".
I've watched the Arab American community get their festival taken away from them. I've seen Crestwood High School withhold letting students have the same Arab American club that other cities provide. I have seen the stupid outcry of folks not wanting a mosque in Sterile Whites [[pardon me, Sterling Heights).
I have the news clippings of folks in Dearborn Heights being harassed by their neighbors and the apathy of the police in the matter. I see the same with the attack on a family man at the Kroger on Greenfield and how that story drastically changed online from the many broadcast reportings. The hassles by Terry Jones and Ruben Israel.....Also, the voter fraud in Dearborn Heights.
There may be bad examples of Arab Americans from those who ruin garage sales to those jock kids who drive recklessly in Dearborn Heights. Yet, I don't allow myself to become a cowi-sh and easily Pavlovian programmed reaction formation to every little sleight I have done to me by a bad stereotype. I will still maintain that the best neighbors I've experienced in Dearborn are Arab Americans proud to be Americans, and I gladly welcome them [[despite the feelings of the more older Hubbard-voting types) and all the out-of-town African and Latino American families coming by to enjoy in the Halloween festivities.
Whenever a bad incident goes down by someone who is Muslim, or Moroccan, or with the name of Mohamed [[like assuming every Latino with the name "Jesus" is a Christian), there have been members of the Muslim community coming forward to denounce these matters and re-emphasizing that that they are very much separate from these extremists. It may get mention in the Press & Guide, but under-reported elsewhere. Yet, they get accused as being "not denouncing enough"....though, the same could be same about whether Trump truly distances and denounces the actions of his more zealous and violent followers [[ie. KKK) or those that post images of "bloody supporters" lifted from actresses appearing in Bruce Campbell gore flicks.
It should be noted that the National Post is also a conservative news outlet given to it's fair share of inaccuracieshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Post#Origins. Yet, I guess anything else elsewhere that is to some degree objective, balanced, and careful to avoid making similar errors can be called "liberal" [[including that dang old concept called "history" that has a tendency to make fools of us all-conservatives more than others). Heck, even National Geographic had trouble getting facts about the Philippines down right....Quote:
Originally Posted by G-DDT
Also, it should be noted that the Al Jazeera article I cited also mentioned that a similar attack on a train by a German citizen occurred back in May. There has been debate as to what he [[who remains unnamed) http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/europe...-knife-attack/actually yelled [[unverified witnesseshttps://www.theguardian.com/world/20...munich-grafing), though he was considered a drug user with mental health issues, and there were no links to terror found.
This recent train attack by a Mohammed Riyad, luckily, only caused injuries and no deaths. He may be Pakistani some sources state. BBC & Heavy have authorities believing he had no ties and was a radicalized lone wolf. Such might be the angry tantrums and death throes of a more and more disconnected operation, and eventually such self-radicalizations will fizzle out-that is, unless folks choose to show more hostile intimidation, bigotry, and persecution in politics against Muslims, which will more than likely encourage and provoke more violent uprisings [[as would be the case and natural reaction towards any such similar persecutions that would be directed at any other religion or political group).
Riyad seemed disaffected, angry, suicidal, missing family, and if the flag was his, it was hand painted [[reminds me of the angry teenage kids who used to carve swastikas into their skin at the fascist Lutheran school I attended).
reply to posts 7-9
I must have hit a nerve. The National Post is, as you know, a Canadian news outlet that, in this case, reprinted a Telegraph article. Both are probably more middle of the road than the Daily Kos you cite. Yet, I'm willing to accept quotes cited by the Telegraph OR the Daily Kos. There is a difference between opinion and quotes. It's also true that much of the media is owned and has been controlled by its owners and that many countries have "hate laws" and otherwise censor media coverage. In the last few days, for instance, Milo was given a lifelong ban by Twitter. If anyone relied on Twitter as a balanced news source, those days are over. Yet, I still used Mrs. Clintons twitter quote. That's one reason it is best to balance news coverage from as many news perspectives as possible and why I choose not to limit myself to your personal list, or anyone else’s, of safe news providers. When was the last time I cited Fox News and World Net Daily or are you fabricating and insinuating to make your case? You also insinuated that I wrote that “"all Muslims" are the real terrorists in this country”. Where did I write or insinuate anything about “all Muslims”? My opinion for the record is that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists but Muslims commit most acts of religious violence worldwide. What is not true is that I ever said that “all Muslims” are the real terrorists in this country.” That statement was derived in your imagination.
What I did write included, "Mohammed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, whose first name might be a hint, was not a "good Muslim" according to our press minders. However, today a report came out that he "had displayed a "clear, recent interest in the radical jihadist movement," growing a beard only in the last eight days after a previous life drinking alcohol and eating pork." "Boulel's uncle said his nephew was indoctrinated about two weeks ago by an Algerian member of ISIL in Nice." Your response was to kill the messenger. I wouldn’t expect that the Daily Kos would have reported something so adverse to its narrative although it would be a good place to look for screwy quotes from Republicans. I did provide the source, The Telegraph. Take it or leave it.
You wiggle and make excuses for Mr. Bouhiel killing 84 people. I don't. I listed four reasons why Mr. Bouhiel was more than just a random "He may've just been one sickly disgruntled human being" as you put it. Perhaps the 9/11 highjackers were also sickly disgruntled human beings who, like Mr. Bouhiel ended their days coincidentally chanting "aluha ahkbar". We don't have Buddhist, Hindu, or Mexican immigrants repeatedly doing similar things when they become disgruntled. I pay attention to patterns. Compare the number of people killed in all abortion clinics by Christian fanatics, ever, in the US with 9/11. When was the last time the KKK killed anyone? The motives are qualitatively similar but quantitatively much different. Also, I suspect guys like Mohammed Atta would use WMD's instead of Stanley knives and airliners were the option available. I doubt that anti-abortionists would. That is a qualitative difference that should be reckoned with.
What I was trying to point out in my previous two posts was that different cultures have different expressions of dealing with things like grief and depression and that while not all of the recent terrorists and killers I mentioned were "good" Muslims or even Muslims, I stated they weren't, there existed a thread of association with Islam. Could it be that sick people are drawn to a radical form of Islam or that depressed, grieving Muslims are more likely to act out within the context of radical Islam? I suspect so. Middle aged white guys are more likely to just shoot themselves. Then again, maybe the pattern of worldwide Muslim related violence since the 7th. Century is just coincidence, or as you suggest, maybe much of this is just a frame up by the likes of Chuck Colson. Uh-huh.
I disagree with your suggestion that freedom of speech is "irresponsible". Too many dictatiors say the same thing. Some things people say are irresponsible but freedom of speech is protected by the First Amendment and leads to people understanding each other as in “Oh, that’s where he’s coming from”. Understanding exactly where others are coming from often leads to a better conversational starting point to narrow differences than beginning with government or corporate narratives. Censorship, however seemingly benign, often leads to pent up anger and ignorance leading to violence.