Massive I-94, I-75 reconstruction projects on horizon for Metro Detroit

Metro Detroit is edging closer to seeing the green light for two massive, multi-year road constructionhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png projects that are expected to cost $2.65 billion. The projects — the reconstruction and widening of a 6.7-mile section of Interstate 94 in Detroit as well as an 18-mile stretch of I-75 in Oakland County — are slated to begin in 2014 and 2015, respectively. They include the reconstruction of I-94 between I-96 and Conner at a cost of about $1.8 billion, and I-75 between Eight Mile and M-59 at a cost of about $850 million.
The Southeast Michigan Council of Governments’ General Assembly is expected to vote today to approve the two plans at its public meeting at the Atheneum Suite Hotel in Greektown. Both are part of $50 billion in road projects in SEMCOG’s 2040 Regional Transportation Plan as well as its 2014-17 Transportation Improvement Plan.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2WkxsFjwW

I'm glad to see the I-75 improvement coming. I've studied them at length. Here are some of the improvements coming:

- Addition of 4th lane along the entire stretch, which will act as an HOV lane during rush hour
- Square Lake Road will be modernized to be a right lane exit\right lane entrance with I-75
- Traffic from I-696 to NB I-75 will no longer weave\merge with NB I-75 traffic exiting at 11 Mile
- The WB 12 Mile to SB I-75 loop will be gone, instead WB 12 Mile traffic will turn left and use the same straight ramp the EB 12 Mile uses to access SB 75

Nearly every single bridge along the route will be updated or replaced.

ROW acquisition [[which is rather minimal) will take place in 2014. Construction begins in 2015 and ends in 2018.

It's amazing that we still have not learned that widening highways really doesn't fix traffic problems, and that we have not come up with any plans for 94 that would be less destructive .

This expansion idea is seriously flawed. They basically dusted off an old plan from the 1990s when gas was a dollar a gallon. What's more, many things have been built on the footprint since they designed it, and will have to be acquired, demolished, etc. The removal of bridges will likely prevent development from spilling over from Midtown into New Center, just at a time when many Midtown organizations are extending into New Center [[CCS, WSU, etc.).

Besides, as many have pointed out, freeway expansions do not ease congestion. Motorists just hop on the expanded freeway and congestion is soon just as bad as it was before.

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Originally Posted by jtf1972

It's amazing that we still have not learned that widening highways really doesn't fix traffic problems, and that we have not come up with any plans for 94 that would be less destructive .

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Putting on my devils advocate hat:

How about we take the freeway away and put all of that congestion and idling trucks on surface streets like Grand Blvd, Warren, or Harper? What will that do for safety, air quality, timely transit, or quality of life in New Center, Midtown, or other neighborhoods? Is this really less destructive? How? What will happen when truck travel increases because of the new bridge crossing?

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Putting on my devils advocate hat:

How about we take the freeway away and put all of that congestion and idling trucks on surface streets like Grand Blvd, Warren, or Harper? What will that do for safety, air quality, timely transit, or quality of life in New Center, Midtown, or other neighborhoods? Is this really less destructive? How? What will happen when truck travel increases because of the new bridge crossing?

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That's a bit of a strawman argument. I don't think anyone is arguing that I-94 should be removed. In fact, most agree that it needs to be modernized. But the specific plan that is on the table is too expensive and too damaging to surrounding neighborhoods, including two of the most successful neighborhoods in the city.

On a different note, I actually think the proposed plans for I-75 are a good idea. For most of the route, there wouldn't be many negative impacts on the surroundings, and the new capacity will help people get in and out of Detroit, which should be good for the City [[and Troy and Madison Heights and Auburn Hills as well I suppose).

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Besides, as many have pointed out, freeway expansions do not ease congestion. Motorists just hop on the expanded freeway and congestion is soon just as bad as it was before.

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Is that true of an area with a declining or stagnant population? I'm sort of serious.. I mean if we have X amount of commuters in the region and the region is not adding population [[and is actually losing it in various places) ... however we are adding lanes where there is congestion, how does adding a lane NOT reduce congestion?

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Originally Posted by Khorasaurus

That's a bit of a strawman argument. I don't think anyone is arguing that I-94 should be removed. In fact, most agree that it needs to be modernized. But the specific plan that is on the table is too expensive and too damaging to surrounding neighborhoods, including two of the most successful neighborhoods in the city.

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Not really a strawman argument. If you don't widen the freeway eventually the traffic will have to go somewhere. It will go to the most logical routes. The extra congestion through those neighborhoods will have a negative impact though air quality, safety, making it harder to cross streets like Warren and Grand Blvd. With the increase of truck traffic expected through the new bridge [[lets just face it we are not spending $4 billion just to p!$$ of Matty) it will have to go somewhere and we will be creating the same problems that Windsor has built a new freeway to solve.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arb...quality-of-li/

http://www.partnershipborderstudy.co...20Mobility.pdf

What many don't understand is that the traffic being generated is being done so not just by Detroiters or suburbanites, it is being generated as a result of improving trade between Canada, the Unitied States and Mexico.

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Originally Posted by bailey

Is that true of an area with a declining or stagnant population? I'm sort of serious.. I mean if we have X amount of commuters in the region and the region is not adding population [[and is actually losing it in various places) ... however we are adding lanes where there is congestion, how does adding a lane NOT reduce congestion?

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Interesting point, but there are a few other things at play:

1. People use the newly widened road when previously they avoided it because they were concerned about traffic. So other roads may lose traffic, but the widened road will be just as congested.

2. New businesses locate along the route because of the new capacity, adding more traffic. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, although the type of businesses that are locating along I-94 in Midtown are not there because of the freeway. We may see more industrial businesses in other parts of the city/region because of the I-94 expansion, but all Midtown will get is a wider I-94 that is even more clogged with trucks than before.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Not really a strawman argument. If you don't widen the freeway eventually the traffic will have to go somewhere. It will go to the most logical routes. The extra congestion through those neighborhoods will have a negative impact though air quality, safety, making it harder to cross streets like Warren and Grand Blvd. With the increase of truck traffic expected through the new bridge [[lets just face it we are not spending $4 billion just to p!$$ of Matty) it will have to go somewhere and we will be creating the same problems that Windsor has built a new freeway to solve.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arb...quality-of-li/

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Part of the problem with this project is that it doesn't take into account the new bridge [[remember it was designed in the 90s). A lot of the trucks along 94 east of 96 are going to Port Huron because they're trying to avoid congestion at the Ambassador Bridge. With the new bridge, that traffic is going to head down 96 and 75, not up 94 towards Macomb County.

And truckers don't react to congestion by taking surface streets [[many of which they aren't allowed on.) They find other freeway routes instead.

And, personally, I'm not worried about traffic from regular cars in Midtown. There's a lot of excess capacity in the road system there already.

I would prefer to see
1) M-59 connected from M-23 to I-94 [[converting Hall road into a highway);
2) Van Dyke M-53 from Washington to Imlay City [[converting Van Dyke into a highway)
3) Haggerty Connecter from I-96 connected to I-75 in Clarkston pasing through M-59. [[converting haggerty connector, martin parkway, union lake, S. Willaims Lake, Maceday Lake, Nelsey Lake, White Lake, Dixie Highway into a highway)

Tell me why are we widening I-94, because of 15min delays during rush hour?

Makes no sense at all. Take the $800 million dollars and fix the torn up surface streets or something more worthwhile. The construction industry must have SEMCOG in their pocket or something. This seems fishy.

I-96 is being shutdown between Newburgh and Telegraph for an entire year in 2014 as well

http://96fix.com/

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Originally Posted by Newdetroit

3) Haggerty Connecter from I-96 connected to I-75 in Clarkston pasing through M-59. [[converting haggerty connector, martin parkway, union lake, S. Willaims Lake, Maceday Lake, Nelsey Lake, White Lake, Dixie Highway into a highway)

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That would be huge. It would take traffic wanting to go north and take it out of the city and instead put it on the edge of the burbs.

My understanding is that I-275 was supposed to reconnect with I-75, but it got canceled out.

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Originally Posted by Khorasaurus

Interesting point, but there are a few other things at play:

1. People use the newly widened road when previously they avoided it because they were concerned about traffic. So other roads may lose traffic, but the widened road will be just as congested.

2. New businesses locate along the route because of the new capacity, adding more traffic. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, although the type of businesses that are locating along I-94 in Midtown are not there because of the freeway. We may see more industrial businesses in other parts of the city/region because of the I-94 expansion, but all Midtown will get is a wider I-94 that is even more clogged with trucks than before.

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So to take it a step further..... new businesses, added pedestrian counts and evolving congestion would also bring about a demand for public transit, would it not?

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Originally Posted by bailey

Is that true of an area with a declining or stagnant population? I'm sort of serious.. I mean if we have X amount of commuters in the region and the region is not adding population [[and is actually losing it in various places) ... however we are adding lanes where there is congestion, how does adding a lane NOT reduce congestion?

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But if we are in an area with declining or stagnant population, why the FUCK expand the freeway?

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Originally Posted by artds

I-96 is being shutdown between Newburgh and Telegraph for an entire year in 2014 as well

http://96fix.com/

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If I'm correct, I-96 between Newburgh and Telegraph was re-surfaced 15-20 years ago. You mean it's wore out again? You would think it would last longer than that unless they used some cheap concrete and asphalt for repairs.

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Originally Posted by 48091

That would be huge. It would take traffic wanting to go north and take it out of the city and instead put it on the edge of the burbs.

My understanding is that I-275 was supposed to reconnect with I-75, but it got canceled out.

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This was planned long ago when I-275 was first planned and was cancelled by the late 70s.
At this point it will hopefully never happen. It would have huge right-of-way acquistion costs, huge environmental impact, massive destruction of wetlands, and lead to an insane amount of sprawl.

I-96 was resurfaced through Livonia in the late 90s, but now is at the point where major reconstruction is necessary. It was just an overlay, which just extends the life but is not a complete fix.

This is a complete rebuilt of the original highway.

For both I-75 and I-94 there are definetely spots that need safety improvements or interchanges to be reconstructed. However I'm not sure an across-the-board widening is necessary for the full length of the sections in questions.

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Originally Posted by DTWflyer

I-96 was resurfaced through Livonia in the late 90s, but now is at the point where major reconstruction is necessary. It was just an overlay, which just extends the life but is not a complete fix.

This is a complete rebuilt of the original highway.

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Thx for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Not really a strawman argument. If you don't widen the freeway eventually the traffic will have to go somewhere. It will go to the most logical routes. The extra congestion through those neighborhoods will have a negative impact though air quality, safety, making it harder to cross streets like Warren and Grand Blvd. With the increase of truck traffic expected through the new bridge [[lets just face it we are not spending $4 billion just to p!$$ of Matty) it will have to go somewhere and we will be creating the same problems that Windsor has built a new freeway to solve.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arb...quality-of-li/

http://www.partnershipborderstudy.co...20Mobility.pdf

What many don't understand is that the traffic being generated is being done so not just by Detroiters or suburbanites, it is being generated as a result of improving trade between Canada, the Unitied States and Mexico.

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Valiant effort to bring facts to the table. But remember that this discussion is about religion. Certain mosques hate the west because of our approach to life. This synagogue worships Kunstler/Jacobs and takes it as a matter of faith that freeways are evil.

You might as well argue for more tarsands oil pipelines bringing petcoke to Detroit at a Sierra Club meeting held at Gary Peters house.

In spite of the above, the high priests of urbanistism here are right about a lot. MDOT's not going to build a pedestrian friendly freeway. They are salivating at billions of federal dollars and will build a momument to highway designs of the 1980 when current MDOT leaders were indoctrinated by the gods of 1950's design. It will be massively stupid and unnecessarily destructive of neighborhoods and will remain a congested mess.

Where I differ, is that congestion is good, and a well-designed freeway to manage trafficflow through our fine city is equally essential to our jobs and economy. Too bad that it'll be built without consideration of its negative effect on urban development in the city.

The protest should not be against the freeway -- it should be against old, stale freeway design of the 50s-80s.

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Originally Posted by TKshreve

So to take it a step further..... new businesses, added pedestrian counts and evolving congestion would also bring about a demand for public transit, would it not?

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The I-94 expansion won't bring new businesses that bring foot traffic to Midtown. It will bring new industrial businesses in southwest Detroit, Warren, Dearborn, maybe the area around the incinerator, etc. And that's not a bad thing. But we could achieve that same impact with a less expensive improvement project that is less damaging to Midtown.

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

But if we are in an area with declining or stagnant population, why the FUCK expand the freeway?

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yes... exactly. that would be the logical conclusion. However as we are in a region of declining and stagnant population, and we apparently ARE building it...

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Originally Posted by 48091

I'm glad to see the I-75 improvement coming. I've studied them at length. Here are some of the improvements coming:

- Addition of 4th lane along the entire stretch, which will act as an HOV lane during rush hour
- Square Lake Road will be modernized to be a right lane exit\right lane entrance with I-75
- Traffic from I-696 to NB I-75 will no longer weave\merge with NB I-75 traffic exiting at 11 Mile
- The WB 12 Mile to SB I-75 loop will be gone, instead WB 12 Mile traffic will turn left and use the same straight ramp the EB 12 Mile uses to access SB 75

Nearly every single bridge along the route will be updated or replaced.

ROW acquisition [[which is rather minimal) will take place in 2014. Construction begins in 2015 and ends in 2018.

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The cost for I-75 expansion are vastly under-estimated, and that is not including the cost of land acquisition and lawsuits. They are pricing it as if it were one of those rural stretches with the highway at grade and where the state already has the right-of-way for sufficient space to expand. They don't seem to include bridge reconstruction in the estimate, either