Mildly hopeful article from NY Times about retooled supplier plants

Sorry if this has already been posted.

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But pull into the bustling headquarters of W Industries, a compound of imposing black structures at 8 Mile and Hoover Street, and you’ll encounter a more hopeful vision of Detroit’s future. Once an exclusive supplier to the auto industry, this machine tool and parts company is rolling in new business.
In one section of the cavernous shop floor, machinists use powerful lasers to slice thick steel plates. They’re making parts for Humvees and Stryker combat vehicles destined for Afghanistan and Iraq.
Elsewhere, they are assembling a 60,000-pound apparatus for testing the Orion space module by simulating the violent vibrations of liftoff. Other workers are finishing a steel mold that will be used to make 70-foot-long roof sections of Airbus A350 passenger jets.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/bu...l?pagewanted=1

Clean energy and aerospace is good, but combat vehicles for Iraq and Afghanistan??? Is there a life in an industry which purpose is death? A dark life, if any. Not exactly what I call hopeful. Do you remember Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado? Well the number 1 employer there was Lockheed Martin and you know who Lockheed's number 1 customer was? The U.S. Military. They were making bombs and missiles and fighters to blow people up... to massacre. Then their kids create their own massacre and everyone is shocked and outraged. I hope we in Detroit can have enough foresight to not become merchants of war. To not be the creators of the deadly technology. To follow in the footsteps of Albert Einstein, a socialist, who was appalled that his discovery was used to create the deadliest weapon known to man that was used to commit the one of the most unspeakable crimes in human history. To not fall in line and go along participating in barbarism.

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Originally Posted by casscorridor

Clean energy and aerospace is good, but combat vehicles for Iraq and Afghanistan??? Is there a life in an industry which purpose is death? A dark life, if any. Not exactly what I call hopeful. Do you remember Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado? Well the number 1 employer there was Lockheed Martin and you know who Lockheed's number 1 customer was? The U.S. Military. They were making bombs and missiles and fighters to blow people up... to massacre. Then their kids create their own massacre and everyone is shocked and outraged. I hope we in Detroit can have enough foresight to not become merchants of war. To not be the creators of the deadly technology. To follow in the footsteps of Albert Einstein, a socialist, who was appalled that his discovery was used to create the deadliest weapon known to man that was used to commit the one of the most unspeakable crimes in human history. To not fall in line and go along participating in barbarism.

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Making that connection with Lockheed and the tragedy that happened at Columbine High School doesn't really hold any water though. Correlation does not equal caution.. just because the industry relates to death and the incident at the high school resulted in death does not mean the industry caused those deaths. Realistically high school shootings could happen anywhere.

It is good that they are working and have some money coming in the door. The problem is that "job shop" type business cannot hold a candle to cranking out millions of pieces a year as an automotive supplier as a mean to employ significant numbers of people..

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Originally Posted by casscorridor

... I hope we in Detroit can have enough foresight to not become merchants of war. To not be the creators of the deadly technology. To follow in the footsteps of Albert Einstein, a socialist, who was appalled that his discovery was used to create the deadliest weapon known to man that was used to commit the one of the most unspeakable crimes in human history. To not fall in line and go along participating in barbarism.

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BAM - Just say the magic phrase and another Communist sleeper agent wakes up! :D

If you buy into casscorridor's loony logic, then Detroit is doomed because of it's WW II role as the "Arsenal of Democracy".

However, my dad says that during his WW II North Atlantic convoy duty on a US Navy patrol frigate, he felt reassured every time he loaded a 3 in. shell into one of the 3"/50 cal. guns that were mounted on the deck of his ship . Each of the shell casing were stamped "mfd. Center Line Mich."

Most of the Detroit manufacturers [[especially the suppliers) were busy during WWII, but didn't get rich on it. The price stabilization guys set the allowable profit clock on a 1938 basis. Since 1938 was the FDR recession [[a bad hiccup on the path out of the depression), the manufacturers didn't make a lot of money. Post war when the pent up demand from people not being able to buy in the depression [[no money) and not being able to buy in the war [[no cars) hit the market, everyone on Detroit [[to include the small suppliers were rolling in money. 1946-1953 were the real boom years.

[quote=casscorridor;120287]Clean energy and aerospace is good, but combat vehicles for Iraq and Afghanistan??? Is there a life in an industry which purpose is death? A dark life, if any. Not exactly what I call hopeful. Do you remember Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado? Well the number 1 employer there was Lockheed Martin and you know who Lockheed's number 1 customer was? The U.S. Military. They were making bombs and missiles and fighters to blow people up... to massacre. ]

Duh, we currently manufacter many of the word's vehicles in SE MI. Far more people die in auto accidents each year than in the Iraq or Afghanistan wars.

Cities around the US are major employment centers with many of their jobs related to defense. Turning down jobs based on the fact that they support the defense industry is Pollyanna thinking, not at all associated with economic realities. Unless the US Defense Dept. ceases to exist, there will be jobs generated by the manufacture of military goods and attracting SOME jobs from that industry would be one means of helping to diversity the Detroit manufacturing base. Attracing engineering and logistical support jobs would help Detroit diversify into non-industrial jobs.

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Originally Posted by casscorridor

Clean energy and aerospace is good, but combat vehicles for Iraq and Afghanistan??? Is there a life in an industry which purpose is death? A dark life, if any. Not exactly what I call hopeful. Do you remember Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado? Well the number 1 employer there was Lockheed Martin and you know who Lockheed's number 1 customer was? The U.S. Military. They were making bombs and missiles and fighters to blow people up... to massacre. Then their kids create their own massacre and everyone is shocked and outraged. I hope we in Detroit can have enough foresight to not become merchants of war. To not be the creators of the deadly technology. To follow in the footsteps of Albert Einstein, a socialist, who was appalled that his discovery was used to create the deadliest weapon known to man that was used to commit the one of the most unspeakable crimes in human history. To not fall in line and go along participating in barbarism.

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Using your logic Detroit should be swimming in defense jobs based on how violent it is.

casscorridor, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? The DoD has a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Albert Einstein, and you curse the military. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what they know. And the military's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want our weapons on that wall, you need them on that wall. The military uses words like honor, code, loyalty. It uses these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. The military has neither the time nor the inclination to explain itself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that it provides, and then questions the manner in which it provides it. We would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post.

The U.S. military protects lives? You have to be joking!!!!!! The only place I've never hear such ultra-nationalism is on FOX NEWS. The U.S. military is creates more terror than any "terrorist" could ever comprehend. The United States Military is the world's biggest terrorist threat. The U.S. Military has killed more than Stalin or even Hilter. Or all the world's greatest killers!! I can't believe anyone really thinks America is a protector of freedom or democracy in the world. The U.S. is the single handedly the greatest source of global instability.

It doesn't protect our freedoms, it only puts them in more danger. It only protects the freedom to continue what the country was founded on and continues on to this day-- Manifest Destiny. That is why it protects corporations not people. That is why the national gaurd was sent in all those years ago to massacre union strikers. Or mowed down native Americans with gatling guns for standing up for their rights at Wounded Knee. Or more recently when the Supreme Court ruled that corporations can spend freely to influence elections with protection of the 1st amendment! The first amendment protects the right's of citizens, meaning corporations are protected and treated as citizens under the constitution. So who matters in our society? People or the are corporations? The fact remains that the majority are against BOTH wars -- Iraq and Afghanistan, yet they continue. The majority are for single-payer health care, yet this was never even on the table for discussion.

So while the miltary spends a liftime "defending" something, that is U.S. Imperialism [[the goal ever since the founding the our nation), defending the right of the united states to take what it wants, to do what it wants whenever it wants, I spend my life defending something as well -- the right to have control over the decisions that affect us. To have a real say in our government, in our economy, in our workplaces. The right to quality health care and education and to mass transit. The freedom to breathe clean air and the rights of future generations to a planet that is not wrecked with ecological catastrophes and climate change. The freedom to actualy have our human potentials be met, when we continue to be crushed under our current system. The freedom to have a creative, empowering and fulfilling life. The freedom from oppression and exploitation and domination. These are things the military nor their civilian masters have any concern for.

What I was saying in my first post is that Einstein didn't sell his soul, he wouldn't do research to create mass destruction for the sake of research, or a paycheck. The most highly educated people in the world sit idly and don't even flutter when corporations and the military do the most barbaric things. What can they not get away with? Yet there are also incredibly highly educated people such as Einstein who stand up, speak out against and not participate in the butchery. Scientist have to make moral decisions, and is it moral to do research to to do research to create devices and machines that slaughter people? How efficient can we slaughter them? That is the question they ask. When the the military planners where deciding where to drop the only nuclear weapons ever used on human beings, much less a city, they decided on Nagasaki because the mountians would amplify the blasts so they could see the potential of the weapon. How can we kill as many people as possible, that is what these scientists where questioning with.

If US or even international defense contractors want to purchase items manufactured in SE Michigan and thereby maybe employ a few people and help stabilize and diversify our economy I personally welcome it. It would be to our advantage for our automotive supplier industry to have a larger customer base than just the Big3.

The Time article was informative I thought, how some Detroit area manufacturers are finding alternative customers for their products. In the long run defense materials, windmills, batteries, etc. may help the SE Mich economy re-structure. We have the workforce, the facilities, the rail, the engineering and such to hopefully attract some non-automotive manufacturing. There are not too many cities with idle large industrial facilities available. Most of them have already been domolished or rehabbed into non-industrial use.

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Originally Posted by casscorridor

The U.S. military protects lives? You have to be joking!!!!!! The only place I've never hear such ultra-nationalism is on FOX NEWS. The U.S. military is creates more terror than any "terrorist" could ever comprehend. The United States Military is the world's biggest terrorist threat. The U.S. Military has killed more than Stalin or even Hilter. Or all the world's greatest killers!! I can't believe anyone really thinks America is a protector of freedom or democracy in the world. The U.S. is the single handedly the greatest source of global instability.

It doesn't protect our freedoms, it only puts them in more danger. It only protects the freedom to continue what the country was founded on and continues on to this day-- Manifest Destiny. That is why it protects corporations not people. That is why the national gaurd was sent in all those years ago to massacre union strikers. Or mowed down native Americans with gatling guns for standing up for their rights at Wounded Knee. Or more recently when the Supreme Court ruled that corporations can spend freely to influence elections with protection of the 1st amendment! The first amendment protects the right's of citizens, meaning corporations are protected and treated as citizens under the constitution. So who matters in our society? People or the are corporations? The fact remains that the majority are against BOTH wars -- Iraq and Afghanistan, yet they continue. The majority are for single-payer health care, yet this was never even on the table for discussion.

So while the miltary spends a liftime "defending" something, that is U.S. Imperialism [[the goal ever since the founding the our nation), defending the right of the united states to take what it wants, to do what it wants whenever it wants, I spend my life defending something as well -- the right to have control over the decisions that affect us. To have a real say in our government, in our economy, in our workplaces. The right to quality health care and education and to mass transit. The freedom to breathe clean air and the rights of future generations to a planet that is not wrecked with ecological catastrophes and climate change. The freedom to actualy have our human potentials be met, when we continue to be crushed under our current system. The freedom to have a creative, empowering and fulfilling life. The freedom from oppression and exploitation and domination. These are things the military nor their civilian masters have any concern for.

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OK....this brings me back out from lurkerdom. Casscorridor, I must congratulate you on the attainder of the eighth level of idiocy in a seven circle system. You are an affront to me, everyone else on this board who ever served their country, and every one one of those "killers" that made the supreme sacrifice so your pansy ass can spout such lunacy. Let me the first to say; oh fuck you.

You have obviously never traveled out of this country [[have you ever even left Detroit?) to see how the "system" crushes people's potential and their abilities to lead a "creative, empowering and fulfilling life". Wonder if your average Haitian was leading "creative, empowering and fulfilling" life before the earthquake and how they feel about the US military that was first delivering relief and first on the ground post temblor? Talk to someone who suffered through Communism in the old Soviet Union about how "creative, empowering and fulfilling" their life was and then realize that the only that stood between you and speaking Russian as your first language is the US Military you so eagerly disparage and despise.

I'd go further, but you're obviously way to far gone if that's your worldview. Maybe you should put down the glass dick and take a look around. Better yet and if you're not pussy enough; why don't you do yourself some good and enlist. You might learn something other than the crap some seventh level idiot has put in your head [[you done them proud, though, I must say)....but then again, probably not

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Originally Posted by Hermod

It is good that they are working and have some money coming in the door. The problem is that "job shop" type business cannot hold a candle to cranking out millions of pieces a year as an automotive supplier as a mean to employ significant numbers of people..

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An automotive supplier employs significant numbers of people? Maybe a long, long time ago. Did you know that the Ford Engine plant in Windsor can build an engine using only 3 man hours? Regardless of the loss of jobs from foreign competition, automotive plants and suppliers have become so highly automated that they'll never employ the significant numbers of people they once did. And they'll get even more hgihly automated in the future and have even less use for manual labour to remain competitive. Job shops are probably going to be the future of where the industrial jobs will be at in this area.

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Originally Posted by D-day

OK....this brings me back out from lurkerdom. Casscorridor, I must congratulate you on the attainder of the eighth level of idiocy in a seven circle system. You are an affront to me, everyone else on this board who ever served their country, and every one one of those "killers" that made the supreme sacrifice so your pansy ass can spout such lunacy. Let me the first to say; oh fuck you.

You have obviously never traveled out of this country [[have you ever even left Detroit?) to see how the "system" crushes people's potential and their abilities to lead a "creative, empowering and fulfilling life". Wonder if your average Haitian was leading "creative, empowering and fulfilling" life before the earthquake and how they feel about the US military that was first delivering relief and first on the ground post temblor? Talk to someone who suffered through Communism in the old Soviet Union about how "creative, empowering and fulfilling" their life was and then realize that the only that stood between you and speaking Russian as your first language is the US Military you so eagerly disparage and despise.

I'd go further, but you're obviously way to far gone if that's your worldview. Maybe you should put down the glass dick and take a look around. Better yet and if you're not pussy enough; why don't you do yourself some good and enlist. You might learn something other than the crap some seventh level idiot has put in your head [[you done them proud, though, I must say)....but then again, probably not

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Well said and thank you for your service .

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Originally Posted by Toolbox

Well said and thank you for your service .

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Why are you thanking a known terrorist?

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Originally Posted by Haikoont

casscorridor, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? The DoD has a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Albert Einstein, and you curse the military. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what they know. And the military's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want our weapons on that wall, you need them on that wall. The military uses words like honor, code, loyalty. It uses these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. The military has neither the time nor the inclination to explain itself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that it provides, and then questions the manner in which it provides it. We would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post.

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You know what, I didn't see this when I posted last night. Welcome to the ninth circle, casscorridor. They're gonna have to break the mold to accommodate you