Renaming Cobo Hall

Amid the stir over the removal of statues of flawed political and military characters, a move is on to replace the name of Cobo Hall. Named after Albert Cobo, Detroit mayor in the 1950s whose administration was scarred by a racially-charged agenda to restrict where African Americans could live in the city, Mayor Mike Duggan is supporting the name change.

The deeper reasons, as usual, are fiscal. The site is barely breaking even with a $6 mil a year state subsidy that drops off to $5 mil next year and disappears in 2023. Selling naming rights could bring in up to $500K a year based on what Huntington Bank paid for the naming rights to Cleveland's convention center as cited in the article from Crain's.

In spite of all the new hotel space created in downtown Detroit, the article also notes that the 3500 rooms now available are still inadequate to attract many conventions.

Name change therefore appears a certainty as it is a win-win. A political win for Duggan in an election year, expunging a past racist issue, and a win for the convention center's bottom line.

By the way does any one have any interesting replacement name?

It's very convenient timing for Duggan and the city to replace the Cobo name, which few people have any deep attachment to, and sell naming rights which is the prudent move these days. They are just lucky Cobo wasn't named Joe Louis or even Coleman Young Convention Center. No sense guessing a new name as it will be whatever corporation shells out the cash.
I do agree with the thought that this renaming thing is quickly becoming a slippery slope. Here in Canada the teacher's union wants Sir John A. MacDonald, our 1st prime minister, name removed from public schools because of his treatment of aboriginals. MacDonald was the single most important founder of our country. It would be the same as removing Thomas Jefferson statues everywhere in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by 401don

It's very convenient timing for Duggan and the city to replace the Cobo name, which few people have any deep attachment to, and sell naming rights which is the prudent move these days. They are just lucky Cobo wasn't named Joe Louis or even Coleman Young Convention Center. No sense guessing a new name as it will be whatever corporation shells out the cash.
I do agree with the thought that this renaming thing is quickly becoming a slippery slope. Here in Canada the teacher's union wants Sir John A. MacDonald, our 1st prime minister, name removed from public schools because of his treatment of aboriginals. MacDonald was the single most important founder of our country. It would be the same as removing Thomas Jefferson statues everywhere in the U.S.

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Can of worms being opened everywhere. "I heard that such and such hit his wife in 1875. We need to rip that statue down now because I'm offended." But hey, whatever.

Regarding COBO, I don't think anyone really cares about the name. Nobody is gonna throw up a fight like they did for Comerica, LCA, etc. So why not let them rename and make a half mil a year off it? It won't effect anyone [[for the most part, I'm sure someone will sound off on how badly it hurts them) and helps the governing authority increase it's chances of staying solvent. Shop COBO and find a naming sponsor now.

I wonder why it took people so long to think of this? I like this idea.

Along with the substantial reasons for changing the name--

"Cobo Hall" just sounds funny. I've had people ask me what the acronym COBO stands for.
And naming a building for a still-living politician so soon out of office was just tacky.

Speaking of still living politicians so soon out of office, how about Levin Hall?

Somebody mentioned the city of Detroit is also a current topic of discussion to be renamed.......yep, you knew this was coming.

[QUOTE=Sandhouse;532089]I wonder why it took people so long to think of this? I like this idea.

Along with the substantial reasons for changing the name--

"Cobo Hall" just sounds funny. I've had people ask me what the acronym COBO stands for.
And naming a building for a still-living politician so soon out of office was just tacky.[/QUOTE]

Al Cobo died in 1957 while still in office as mayor, and Cobo Hall opened in 1960.

ally Financial Hall.

Auto related but not a manufacturer. Make the call, get it done. Some things don't have to be hard.

Name it Illitch Center, place a 30-ft Stalin-esque statue of Mike Illitch outside and watch DYes explode.

Many years ago, Detroit was on the rocks financially and about to go broke. The city hired a finance guy from Burroughs Adding Machine Co and named him city treasurer. Al Cobo served as Detroit treasurer for many years and got the city put on sound financial footing without intervention from the state. He then went on to serve on the city council and then as mayor. Probably the last time an honest and trustworthy guy was in that office.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Many years ago, Detroit was on the rocks financially and about to go broke. The city hired a finance guy from Burroughs Adding Machine Co and named him city treasurer. Al Cobo served as Detroit treasurer for many years and got the city put on sound financial footing without intervention from the state. He then went on to serve on the city council and then as mayor. Probably the last time an honest and trustworthy guy was in that office.

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And he also sided with and championed white community associations to keep out the "invasion of the Negroes". See how the entire story works? Can African-Americans at the time call him honest and trustworthy?

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

And he also sided with and championed white community associations to keep out the "invasion of the Negroes". See how the entire story works? Can African-Americans at the time call him honest and trustworthy?

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In that era, 98% of white Detroiters agreed with him. Different times today, fortunately.

Here's a thought: how about we call Cobo Hall the "Detroit Convention Center." We can call city hall "Detroit City Hall" or "Detroit City / Wayne County Building"

Let's start naming things what they are instead of naming them after people nobody will care about at best, or actively hate at worst.

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Originally Posted by JBMcB

Let's start naming things what they are instead of naming them after people nobody will care about at best, or actively hate at worst.

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I largely agree with this statement. I especially abhor naming things after politicians. I am for the occasional exception, but honestly, since every person has said and done things in life that are controversial to downright contemptible, it is unwise to name things after government officials. If I were in charge of renaming Cobo*, I would call it The Joe Louis Convention Center. But the Detroit Convention Center would be fine, too.

*As a kid I didn't know anything about Mayor Cobo, and assumed that Cobo Hall was a shortened version of Convention & Boxing Hall.

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Originally Posted by JBMcB

Here's a thought: how about we call Cobo Hall the "Detroit Convention Center." We can call city hall "Detroit City Hall" or "Detroit City / Wayne County Building"

Let's start naming things what they are instead of naming them after people nobody will care about at best, or actively hate at worst.

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That is a damn good idea for future names.

People have flaws and they are only being recorded more completely making further scrutiny that much easier.

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Originally Posted by 401don

Here in Canada the teacher's union wants Sir John A. MacDonald, our 1st prime minister, name removed from public schools because of his treatment of aboriginals. MacDonald was the single most important founder of our country. It would be the same as removing Thomas Jefferson statues everywhere in the U.S.

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Now that's personal! Sir John A is my great-great-great-grand-uncle [[or something like that). He may have been an old Scottish racist drunk bastard, but dammit, that just means he was like a bunch of other folks in my family, and I don't see anyone taking their names off of anything...

From now on if you want a Confederate Monument you just need to lay it on its side and call it something else. Just like the black power fist on the foot of Jefferson the call Joe Lewis!

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Originally Posted by Wheels

From now on if you want a Confederate Monument you just need to lay it on its side and call it something else. Just like the black power fist on the foot of Jefferson the call Joe Lewis!

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Except it is the Joe Louis Fist. It was a gift from Sports Illustrated in honor of him and our sports culture here...soooo...

Each living generation has the advantage of mounting a high horse and looking down those of the past, whose flaws now lay bare, and claiming righteous moral superiority.

But how will we be looked upon? Will we be seen as callously owning cars, boats, summer houses, eating out and hoarding money while children in Somalia, or inner city and rural America, and elsewhere, starved or died from lack medical care?

As the old saying goes, "Whenever one points a finger, there are three finger pointing back at themselves."

I like the name Cobo and I'm going to stick with it.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

But how will we be looked upon?

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The way History is constantly being rewritten, it really doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Wheels

From now on if you want a Confederate Monument you just need to lay it on its side and call it something else. Just like the black power fist on the foot of Jefferson the call Joe Lewis!

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The degree of racial paranoia that remains in this area is sometimes ridiculously disheartening.

Yes, I'm sure those horrible racists at Sports Illustrated aimed that black fist right at your white face. All to memorialize that horrendous racist Joe Louis. Why just look at the thuggery he used to beat down that nice innocent white fellow Max Schmeling.

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

In that era, 98% of white Detroiters agreed with him. Different times today, fortunately.

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Not quite 98%, or Jerry Cavanagh wouldn't have won a few years later.

Statues can have more than one meaning, especially among different audiences.

The Joe Louis fist honors a boxer, just as it mirrors the Black Power salute common in the years before it was erected.

Confederate statues are both symbols of slavery and oppression, and of southern pride and heritage.

If one is racist, the other is racist; If one is not racist, the other is not racist. Its all open for interpretation. Hopefully, we can remember they are inanimate objects, and we can treat one another with respect and dignity no matter how they are interpreted.

1953

Rename it Joe Louis Convention Center or Detroit Convention Center.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

And he also sided with and championed white community associations to keep out the "invasion of the Negroes". See how the entire story works? Can African-Americans at the time call him honest and trustworthy?

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Going against people's wants and desires does not make a person dishonest or untrustworthy. Cobo never promised that he would make open housing a city policy. He never broke his word. You don't like his policies, fine, but that doesn't make him dishonest.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Going against people's wants and desires does not make a person dishonest or untrustworthy. Cobo never promised that he would make open housing a city policy. He never broke his word. You don't like his policies, fine, but that doesn't make him dishonest.

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So, he was a racist, but an honest one? Well, that certainly clears things up.

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Originally Posted by 1953

Statues can have more than one meaning, especially among different audiences.

The Joe Louis fist honors a boxer, just as it mirrors the Black Power salute common in the years before it was erected.

Confederate statues are both symbols of slavery and oppression, and of southern pride and heritage.

If one is racist, the other is racist; If one is not racist, the other is not racist. Its all open for interpretation. Hopefully, we can remember they are inanimate objects, and we can treat one another with respect and dignity no matter how they are interpreted.

1953

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So a monument to a guy who was paid to punch people [[who were paid to punch him back), and who destroyed the avatar of Nazi racial theories in what was certainly his most famous fight, is equivalent to a monument the leaders of a rebellion in support of the right of people with one skin color to own people of a different skin color, and to buy, sell, kill, rape, and abuse them at will?

As a famous orange blithering idiot once said "on many sides, many sides".

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Originally Posted by 1953

If one is racist, the other is racist; If one is not racist, the other is not racist. Its all open for interpretation. Hopefully, we can remember they are inanimate objects, and we can treat one another with respect and dignity no matter how they are interpreted.

1953

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It's not open for interpretation. Civil rights and the current BLM movement are not for "black supremacy", they're for the ending of systemic racism found throughout institutions, both private and public still existing in the United States. White people then get on the defensive thinking this means their "way of life" is threatened. No dipshits, it means blacks, Hispanics, immigrants, women, trans, etc just want what white men have had for the past 500 years in America.

Confederate statues and "southern pride and heritage", whatever the eff that means, and the people that wish to protect them are for the continuation of white supremacy and making sure the USA "stays white".

If your pride and heritage is based on statues of men that sought to succeed from the US and own slaves, that's pretty fucked up.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

It's not open for interpretation. Civil rights and the current BLM movement are not for "black supremacy", they're for the ending of systemic racism found throughout institutions, both private and public still existing in the United States. White people then get on the defensive thinking this means their "way of life" is threatened. No dipshits, it means blacks, Hispanics, immigrants, women, trans, etc just want what white men have had for the past 500 years in America.

Confederate statues and "southern pride and heritage", whatever the eff that means, and the people that wish to protect them are for the continuation of white supremacy and making sure the USA "stays white".

If your pride and heritage is based on statues of men that sought to succeed from the US and own slaves, that's pretty fucked up.

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Where IS that upvote button?

People are acting like this renaming thing re: Cobo Hall is some brand new ish. It's not:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXBJjmBlqqM

From back in 2014

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

If your pride and heritage is based on statues of men that sought to [secede] from the US and own slaves, that's pretty fucked up.

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Pretty much.

To me, most historical figures aren't automatically unacceptable even if they were clearly racist. It depends on what else they did in life and on putting the good and the bad into context. Jefferson owned slaves, but the words he wrote inspired generations to fight against slavery, Jim Crow, and inequality. Those are both important and we can honor him for the latter while acknowledging the former. Sadly, the mingling of revolutionary ideas of liberty and deep racism is a major part of the story of the US itself and needs to be acknowledged honestly when honoring historical figures. But Confederates have nothing that would make up for launching the civil war to ensure the propagation of slavery. Honoring literal traitors who fought in service of evil needs to end.

Cobo is obviously nowhere near that bad. But it's hard to imagine that if the people of Detroit were naming the convention center today that they would choose to name it after him. We name public things after people whom we believe should be admired and remembered. Given that he's not exactly a famous figure for other, more positive reasons, I don't see why it shouldn't be changed. Anyone offended by the removal can feel free to fund raise for a permanent exhibition on him or Detroit mayors in general, with all their glories and faults, at the Historical Museum.

They won’t be satisfied with just renaming buildings and removing statues. You read it here first.

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Originally Posted by Pat001

They won’t be satisfied with just renaming buildings and removing statues. You read it here first.

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Who is "they"?

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Originally Posted by Junjie

Pretty much.

To me, most historical figures aren't automatically unacceptable even if they were clearly racist. It depends on what else they did in life and on putting the good and the bad into context. Jefferson owned slaves, but the words he wrote inspired generations to fight against slavery, Jim Crow, and inequality. Those are both important and we can honor him for the latter while acknowledging the former. Sadly, the mingling of revolutionary ideas of liberty and deep racism is a major part of the story of the US itself and needs to be acknowledged honestly when honoring historical figures. But Confederates have nothing that would make up for launching the civil war to ensure the propagation of slavery. Honoring literal traitors who fought in service of evil needs to end.

Cobo is obviously nowhere near that bad. But it's hard to imagine that if the people of Detroit were naming the convention center today that they would choose to name it after him. We name public things after people whom we believe should be admired and remembered. Given that he's not exactly a famous figure for other, more positive reasons, I don't see why it shouldn't be changed. Anyone offended by the removal can feel free to fund raise for a permanent exhibition on him or Detroit mayors in general, with all their glories and faults, at the Historical Museum.

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I agree with this. You have to look at what is being celebrated/honored by the naming/statue/etc.

The convention center was named after Cobo because it was part of the civic center and he was the mayor that oversaw the creation of the civic center. afaik the naming doesn't have any racial angle to it. If after his death Cobo became a symbol for a white-only Detroit, and mass produced statues of him were scattered across the city in prominent locations, then obviously those are white supremacist statues and should be removed.

But just because the convention center naming doesn't have a racial angle to it, it doesn't mean that out of all of the great citizens our city has had that HE should be the one we share with our visitors.

Rosa Parks wouldn't be bad. Even growing up here I didn't know until recently just how long she lived here and how active she was. Usually you just hear that she did the bus thing down south and maybe you hear that she eventually ended up in Detroit, but you usually don't hear that she spent most of her life living in Detroit being very very politically active, and I think that's something Detroit should be proud of and should want to share with guests. Whoever it's named after, imo that's the spirit that a convention center should be named in.

I don't really want a corporate name though.

It really sounds like the administration wants to sell the naming rights to raise cash, and removing Cobo's name is just bonus political capital.

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Originally Posted by archfan

It really sounds like the administration wants to sell the naming rights to raise cash, and removing Cobo's name is just bonus political capital.

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^^^^
This!!

Not saying I want a corporate name, but I am not going to write them a multimillion dollar check either.

If they can raise funds selling the name, good for them. If someone wants to pay a bunch of $$ to have a more civic sounding name, great. But most importantly is that the center's budget is balanced, and if selling the naming rights is the best way to get there, so be it.

If you don't want the corporate name, there is an alternative. Write them a big check, and you can probably pick the new name.

Well the 'they' could be debated thread upon thread. As an artist what additionally troubles me is how the definition of offensive and racists will be determined, onward?

Uh, shucks! That too could occupy a whole 'nuther thread!

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Who is "they"?

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Originally Posted by Pat001

They won’t be satisfied with just renaming buildings and removing statues. You read it here first.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

As an artist what additionally troubles me is how the definition of offensive and racists will be determined, onward?

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The media will determine all that for you, all you have to do is just follow along.

Yeah, it's all too tiresome to sort thru the critical distinctions and what all... Lead me on oh great one [[the media)!

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Yeah, it's all too tiresome to sort thru the critical distinctions and what all... Lead me on oh great one [[the media)!

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I'm glad you added the disclaimer. That would be a lot of responsibility for one person to assume.

I didn't vote for Trump, but I agree with him about the "many sides," bit. I saw video of two groups of idiots hitting each other; I don't condone violent protests, even if they are for a morally superior cause.

As for the statues, your argument is that the Confederate statues represent a morally inferior sentiment, because of the slavery stance by the Confederacy. This sort of proves my point. The Confederacy stood for lots of things, but you zoom in and say it stood [[most singularly) for slavery. That's the side you see. But, if you are a southerner, who's family was tangled up in the war, you might see it standing for something quite different. Heritage? Self-determination? Valor? I get that you don't agree with those sentiments, but, surely, people are apt to feel that way about soldiers in the south, too. Both slavery and valor can be embodied by the same statue, and you get to choose which you see and which you prioritize.

Think about the fact we have a Jefferson Davis statue under the capital dome. What more conciliatory act could there be for a nation seeking to reunite with a segment of its own people who have rebelled against it? Its a way of saying, "Hey, we didn't agree with you, and went to war with you over it, but you are Americans, too, and we honor the positive values you demonstrated [[standing up for your beliefs, i.e.), even while we militarily opposed the values we did not agree with [[slavery). This is history, and I think we are much better off for seeing it than for hiding it away or replacing it with new narratives.

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

So a monument to a guy who was paid to punch people [[who were paid to punch him back), and who destroyed the avatar of Nazi racial theories in what was certainly his most famous fight, is equivalent to a monument the leaders of a rebellion in support of the right of people with one skin color to own people of a different skin color, and to buy, sell, kill, rape, and abuse them at will?

As a famous orange blithering idiot once said "on many sides, many sides".

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Originally Posted by 1953

I didn't vote for Trump, but I agree with him about the "many sides," bit. I saw video of two groups of idiots hitting each other; I don't condone violent protests, even if they are for a morally superior cause.

As for the statues, your argument is that the Confederate statues represent a morally inferior sentiment, because of the slavery stance by the Confederacy. This sort of proves my point. The Confederacy stood for lots of things, but you zoom in and say it stood [[most singularly) for slavery. That's the side you see. But, if you are a southerner, who's family was tangled up in the war, you might see it standing for something quite different. Heritage? Self-determination? Valor? I get that you don't agree with those sentiments, but, surely, people are apt to feel that way about soldiers in the south, too. Both slavery and valor can be embodied by the same statue, and you get to choose which you see and which you prioritize.

Think about the fact we have a Jefferson Davis statue under the capital dome. What more conciliatory act could there be for a nation seeking to reunite with a segment of its own people who have rebelled against it? Its a way of saying, "Hey, we didn't agree with you, and went to war with you over it, but you are Americans, too, and we honor the positive values you demonstrated [[standing up for your beliefs, i.e.), even while we militarily opposed the values we did not agree with [[slavery). This is history, and I think we are much better off for seeing it than for hiding it away or replacing it with new narratives.

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+5, 1953....

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Originally Posted by 1953

I didn't vote for Trump, but I agree with him about the "many sides," bit. I saw video of two groups of idiots hitting each other; I don't condone violent protests, even if they are for a morally superior cause.

As for the statues, your argument is that the Confederate statues represent a morally inferior sentiment, because of the slavery stance by the Confederacy. This sort of proves my point. The Confederacy stood for lots of things, but you zoom in and say it stood [[most singularly) for slavery. That's the side you see. But, if you are a southerner, who's family was tangled up in the war, you might see it standing for something quite different. Heritage? Self-determination? Valor? I get that you don't agree with those sentiments, but, surely, people are apt to feel that way about soldiers in the south, too. Both slavery and valor can be embodied by the same statue, and you get to choose which you see and which you prioritize.

Think about the fact we have a Jefferson Davis statue under the capital dome. What more conciliatory act could there be for a nation seeking to reunite with a segment of its own people who have rebelled against it? Its a way of saying, "Hey, we didn't agree with you, and went to war with you over it, but you are Americans, too, and we honor the positive values you demonstrated [[standing up for your beliefs, i.e.), even while we militarily opposed the values we did not agree with [[slavery). This is history, and I think we are much better off for seeing it than for hiding it away or replacing it with new narratives.

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The problem with this is that the confederacy didn't stand for multiple things, it stood for slavery. https://www.civilwar.org/learn/prima...eceding-states

Lost Cause historical revisionism [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_C...he_Confederacy) would have you think that it was about all kinds of honorable things but it was really just exclusively about slavery. The new narratives you're hearing are more than likely the historically accurate ones.

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Originally Posted by 1953

I didn't vote for Trump, but I agree with him about the "many sides," bit. I saw video of two groups of idiots hitting each other; I don't condone violent protests, even if they are for a morally superior cause.

As for the statues, your argument is that the Confederate statues represent a morally inferior sentiment, because of the slavery stance by the Confederacy. This sort of proves my point. The Confederacy stood for lots of things, but you zoom in and say it stood [[most singularly) for slavery. That's the side you see. But, if you are a southerner, who's family was tangled up in the war, you might see it standing for something quite different. Heritage? Self-determination? Valor? I get that you don't agree with those sentiments, but, surely, people are apt to feel that way about soldiers in the south, too. Both slavery and valor can be embodied by the same statue, and you get to choose which you see and which you prioritize.

Think about the fact we have a Jefferson Davis statue under the capital dome. What more conciliatory act could there be for a nation seeking to reunite with a segment of its own people who have rebelled against it? Its a way of saying, "Hey, we didn't agree with you, and went to war with you over it, but you are Americans, too, and we honor the positive values you demonstrated [[standing up for your beliefs, i.e.), even while we militarily opposed the values we did not agree with [[slavery). This is history, and I think we are much better off for seeing it than for hiding it away or replacing it with new narratives.

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Yeah, NO.

"I don't support World War 2 even if rid the world of Nazi Germany." That's basically what you are saying. And while I'm more of a pacifist, I believe in a just war. I truly believe a punch to a neo-Nazi is always justified. My late WW2 veteran grandfather would've agreed. Just remember, that many of the white supremacists who went down there were the ones that were armed. The counter protesters overwhelmingly [[if any) were not armed. And it was a white supremacist who MURDERED a woman.

I would love support a soldier's valor, however if that soldier's valor was fighting for slavery, then no, I'm not going honor that. Nor should it be honored in a public place.

What other things did the Confederacy stand for? Cotton? [[Slavery) Tobacco? [[Slavery) Sweet iced tea and states' rights [[to own slaves)?

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Cobo Center in Detroit officially renamed 'TCF Center'

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Named after a bank. Is that really an improvement? They could have named it after some other person less objectionable, but I guess no money would have been involved.

https://youtu.be/9qISVP_PuXY

It's an improvement, but it is sure lame.

TCF is paying a significant amount of money for naming rights that will solidify the financial side of things, ensuring continued improvements to the facility. Just remember how bad of shape it was in not long ago. I'm all for corporate naming rights if it means a better product. Time will tell, but this is an easy win, in my opinion.

Besides, I'm pretty certain most locals couldn't even tell you who Cobo Center was named after, let alone out of towners who visit the place.

Very glad to see the name change and going with a company that is investing in the city with a HQ downtown and plans to branch out to the neighborhoods.

Glad to see the Cobo name gone from this place.

Definitely glad Cobo 's name is gone. Hopefully, the TFC sponsorship will provide the necessary funds to maintain the building. As DetroitSoldier said, time will tell.

"You know, the way all baby boomers and millennials who grew up attending outdoor concerts at Pine Knob now reflexively refer to

that

venue as … wait, don't tell me! I know this one. …"


This sentence from today's Freep article says it all. The majority of locals will still be calling it Cobo until they tear the place down. It is a nice way to make some money for the city and to confuse tourists.

This

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Originally Posted by 65memories

Definitely glad Cobo 's name is gone. Hopefully, the TFC sponsorship will provide the necessary funds to maintain the building. As DetroitSoldier said, time will tell.

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Every little bit helps but 1.5 million/year will clean the windows and not much else. They really need to book some big conventions to replace the auto show revenues. By replace the auto show revenues, what is happening is they are moving from a dead time mid-Nov. to mid-Jan. for set-up and show to May/June when convention centers are busier.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

"You know, the way all baby boomers and millennials who grew up attending outdoor concerts at Pine Knob now reflexively refer to

that

venue as … wait, don't tell me! I know this one. …"


This sentence from today's Freep article says it all. The majority of locals will still be calling it Cobo until they tear the place down. It is a nice way to make some money for the city and to confuse tourists.

This

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At 36 and at the high end of millenials most people age my age and younger dont call DTE Pine Knob. I was 18 when they changed the name, I never saw a show there when it was Pine Knob. The Cobo name will go away is like it is for Pine Knob

Is there still a Hubbard Drive in Dearborn? Is Hubbard's statue still standing? Asking for a friend...

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Originally Posted by MSUguy

At 36 and at the high end of millenials most people age my age and younger dont call DTE Pine Knob. I was 18 when they changed the name, I never saw a show there when it was Pine Knob. The Cobo name will go away is like it is for Pine Knob

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Even today, you'll still hear older folks slip up and call Macy's "Hudson's." :D

Hubbard remains. Ending southwest at Evergreen I think.

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Originally Posted by Pat001

Is there still a Hubbard Drive in Dearborn? Is Hubbard's statue still standing? Asking for a friend...

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Originally Posted by 313WX

Even today, you'll still hear older folks slip up and call Macy's "Hudson's." :D

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Crap, I'm older folks now.

Don't feel bad.... I still call the bridge to Belle Isle "the MacArthur Bridge"... :eek:

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Don't feel bad.... I still call the bridge to Belle Isle "the MacArthur Bridge"... :eek:

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You had me there. I was about to ask if it had been changed.

But will there be TCF carpet inside, ala the COBO carpet of the 90's?

LOL! I almost would be [[I remember those olive-green polkadot Hudsons shopping bags) but I mostly came on board for heavy shopping when Macy's came about.

Before that I was the 'artist' type relative to clothes. Or I was at Winklemans and Lerner's!!

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Originally Posted by archfan

Crap, I'm older folks now.

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Originally Posted by 65memories

Definitely glad Cobo 's name is gone.

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Life is so much simpler when you can just erase complex history. Now we just have a glorious corporate entity to celebrate, and as dear Sen. Elizabeth Warren knows they are never evil.

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Originally Posted by 65memories

Hopefully, the TFC sponsorship will provide the necessary funds to maintain the building.

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If there's one certainty here, its that none of this money will be an increase to Cobo Hall's, I mean TCF Place's budget.

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Originally Posted by 65memories

As DetroitSoldier said, time will tell.

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OK, here's one more certainty. Cobo will always be more significant to Detroit's history than any bank with a meaningless TLA.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Life is so much simpler when you can just erase complex history. Now we just have a glorious corporate entity to celebrate...

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And once again, History rewrites itself.

This is why I'm completely opposed to naming things and places after people. One group does it to memorialize or honor a person from their time. Years or decades later, someone else begins to take offense. Corporatization is even worse. How many times do companies change names over the years? Will the city be obligated to pay for all the maps and published documents if this bank changes their name again?

Why wasn't this originally given some regional but otherwise innocuous name like Riverfront Center?

^^^ Yes, I'm with you on this Meddle, all things considered.

The corporate naming rights thing goes back a long way and actually was kind of backward. In the early '50's the Busch family wanted to change the name of Sportmen's Park in St. Louis to Budweiser but MLB said no. They instead changed it to Busch Stadium and came out with Busch beer to capitalize on their family name being on a ballpark. The Astros may have been the 1st team to get a big sponsorship with Enron Field. That didn't go so well and they paid a couple of million to buy back the name.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Life is so much simpler when you can just erase complex history. Now we just have a glorious corporate entity to celebrate, and as dear Sen. Elizabeth Warren knows they are never evil.

Refusing to celebrate a racist by putting his name on the city's only convention center is hardly "erasing history." Not only is it moral, it's just good business - in more ways than one in this case.


If there's one certainty here, its that none of this money will be an increase to Cobo Hall's, I mean TCF Place's budget.

Really? How is this a certainty? Do you know something everyone else doesn't know?


OK, here's one more certainty. Cobo will always be more significant to Detroit's history than any bank with a meaningless TLA.

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Again, I suppose that remains to be seen. I've lived in Detroit for 15 years now. I'm fully aware of the history around Mayor Cobo but quite frankly, a bank that builds a tower downtown, grants me a loan, and invests in the city will have a bigger impact on my life - and I suspect all modern Detroiters - than Cobo ever did. In fact, many Detroiters, including government agencies, are actively working every day to UNDO a lot of Cobo's signature accomplishments...

^^ I screwed up the reply with quote and was not allowed to edit... some of my thoughts look as if they are part of Wesley's original quote.

I don't mind losing the Cobo name, but I haven't the faintest hope of remembering TFC, or FCT, or THC or -- what was that again?

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Originally Posted by Sandhouse

I don't mind losing the Cobo name, but I haven't the faintest hope of remembering TFC, or FCT, or THC or -- what was that again?

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It's the same with cars. All the classic names have been replaced with letter/number combinations that nobody will recognize. Just as well I guess, since most are on boring suv's.