Why doesn't ANYBODY mention the elephants in the room? Crime & illiteracy

Is it not PC to mention that white and black flight was sparked by and was a reaction [[escape) to crime? And please tell me how Detroit can ever come back when it's a city of hundreds of thousands of functionally illiterate citizens -- many of which don't want to work? How can politics or auto makers or unions make people control their impulse to rob and shoot each other or force adults to learn to read and go to a 9-5 Monday through Friday? Nothing I've read has placed any accountability on the citizens of the city.

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The Detroit Regional Workforce Fund found that 47 percent of the city's residents are "functionally illiterate."

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Originally Posted by 48009

Is it not PC to mention that white and black flight sparked and was a reaction to escaping crime? And please tell me how Detroit can ever come back when it's a city of hundreds of thousands of [[functional) illiterate citizens? How can politics or auto makers or unions make people control their impulse to rob and shoot each other or force adults to learn to read? Nothing I read has any accountability for the citizens of the city.

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It would be to hard playing catch up on education and training,quick results would be by doubling the population to change the odds and then you have the revenue for breaking the cycle.

Which is why the whole shrinking city aspect is not a workable solution as it does not address what is now a majority of the population,unless they just disappear overnight ,which is not going to happen.

You cannot have a 100,000 supporting 600,000 no matter how tight you squeeze into a gated community,they are still there,jobs and education or spend millions trying to forget them or pretend they do not exist until you get the wake up call,then it is the same circle all over again.

Neighborhood problems.

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Originally Posted by 48009

I'm originally from Chicago. I think political business and union leaders certainly played a part in this but NONE of the talking heads mention anything about the citizens. Only in the comment sections do you find dialogue about illiteracy rates, pervasive crime and a lack of motivation to work.

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I'm sure if you switch on Fox News sometime you'll find some talking heads who are more to your liking. Now please go away.

Why must "illiterate" automatically mean "unwilling to work"? I'm sure some of these folks do want to work-- and do want to learn to read-- but they don't know how to make it happen. It's pretty scary to imagine having to go through life without being able to read. I can't even remember a time when I couldn't read!

Indeed. How do you know "they" all don't want to work? Have you polled "them"? It sure seems to me that every time there may be some jobs to be had, I see a lot of "them" in line. Not to mention the many of "them" I encounter working in retail and service [[and professional) jobs all over the area. Some of "them" even have 2 [[or more) of these jobs, even if they have to take several slow buses to get there.

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Originally Posted by 48009

Is it not PC to mention that white and black flight sparked and was a reaction to escaping crime?

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I see crime mentioned all the time in these discussions as a reason for white flight.

I have yet to see, however anyone discuss exactly how or what type of crime was a significant factor in the early years of white flight - post WWII, 1945 -1960.

Do you have stats or experience to that effect? Was it break-ins? assaults? Racial Violence? Car theft?

I am curious about this.

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Indeed. How do you know "they" all don't want to work? Have you polled "them"? It sure seems to me that every time there may be some jobs to be had, I see a lot of "them" in line. Not to mention the many of "them" I encounter working in retail and service [[and professional) jobs all over the area. Some of "them" even have 2 [[or more) of these jobs, even if they have to take several slow buses to get there.

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Highest unemployment % in the nation. Largest concentration of illiterate adults. Highest crime rate. I don't need to knock on doors for these statistics.

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Originally Posted by marshamusic

I see crime mentioned all the time in these discussions as a reason for white flight.

I have yet to see, however anyone discuss exactly how or what type of crime was a significant factor in the early years of white flight - post WWII, 1945 -1960.

Do you have stats or experience to that effect? Was it break-ins? assaults? Racial Violence? Car theft?

I am curious about this.

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Marsha, Marsha, Marsha,I love you. This issue has been discussed so often on threads. Can't convince subs that the problems are too complex for them to comprehend,

Rabbits run, Badgers stay. Me, I am probably an opossum, fight when I need to.

"Detroit has workers with the lowest skill sets of any city in the nation. The people did not have the education or the resiliency to adapt to other work once the assembly line jobs dried up."

-NY Times

Yes, but how does that mean that "they" don't want to work? Poor schools, a dead manufacturing economy, and a lack of opportunity [[which are all interrelated) does not = indolence.

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Originally Posted by 48009

Is it not PC to mention that white and black flight sparked and was a reaction to escaping crime? And please tell me how Detroit can ever come back when it's a city of hundreds of thousands of [[functional?) illiterate citizens -- many who don't want to work? How can politics or auto makers or unions make people control their impulse to rob and shoot each other or force adults to learn to read and go to a 9-5 Monday through Friday? Nothing I've read has placed any accountability on the citizens of the city.

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YOU HAVE NO CLUE. I have a room I can rent, come and meet my city and the amazing people I meet each day. I even will say charming!

Oops forgot, you are scared of our city.

Of course I keep 3 viscous dogs, one is sleeping in my laundry basket, 2 others on the couch. Trust me, if evil comes they will be vigilant but frankly I do not expect that.

I just hate Detroit detractors, you are clueless about who composes Detroit.

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Yes, but how does that mean that "they" don't want to work? Poor schools, a dead manufacturing economy, and a lack of opportunity [[which are all interrelated) does not = indolence.

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Poor schools? $16,000/year per student. Why isn't it the parents' fault?

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Originally Posted by sumas

I just hate Detroit detractors, you are clueless about who composes Detroit.

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I'm not a detractor. Avoiding the "controversial" or taboo realities does the city no favors. The Detroit Regional Workforce Fund found that 47 percent of the city's residents are "functionally illiterate." These are facts that contributed to the downfall and severely weakens its ability to recover.

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Originally Posted by 48009

Poor schools? $16,000/year per student. Why isn't it the parents' fault?

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When people say the schools are poor, they don't mean they don't have enough money. The answer is the same as is usually the case in Detroit--the money is not spent effectively. That isn't really the parents' fault.

I think a lot of children in Detroit probably do have parents who aren't as supportive as one would like. But of course a lot of those parents have their own issues. Maybe they are deliberately not supporting their children, but I would suggest that possibly they have limited capabilities in this area.

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Originally Posted by 48009

I'm not a detractor. Avoiding the "controversial" or taboo realities does the city no favors. The Detroit Regional Workforce Fund found that 47 percent of the city's residents are "functionally illiterate." These are facts that contributed to the downfall and severely weakens its ability to recover.

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So what would your recommendations or ideas be on a workable solution?

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Originally Posted by Richard

So what would your recommendations or ideas be on a workable solution?

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I was wondering the same thing. You pose a problem, ......But what's a solution?

One in five Americans lacks the basic reading skills beyond a 4th grade level.

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Originally Posted by 48009

I'm not a detractor. Avoiding the "controversial" or taboo realities does the city no favors. The Detroit Regional Workforce Fund found that 47 percent of the city's residents are "functionally illiterate." These are facts that contributed to the downfall and severely weakens its ability to recover.

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There is no avoidance. We know our problems. So many individuals, neighborhoods, churches and organizations work daily to deal with these problems. In my neighborhood a trained social worker/teacher works with our kids in summer to improve reading skills. I teach cooking and healthful eating skills, my husband teaches piano. So many churches provide additional support to kids and adults to enhance skills. This is all volunteer work.

Quit bitching, volunteer or put your money where your mouth is. Georgia Street Community Collective is looking for money for backpacks and school supplies.

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Originally Posted by old guy

One in five Americans lacks the basic reading skills beyond a 4th grade level.

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It is a shame that too many fail to appreciate a really good book.

Our original poster is the one who can't see the elephant in the room. Instead he holds up a big steaming fist full of the elephant's dung, crime and illiteracy, and loudly declares it to be the elephant.

He is not alone. Blind mistaking of effects as the cause is little different from the state's which has likewise waded into it up to its knees and failed to see the beast.

Instead they will point their smug and privileged fingers, rescue their bond holder friends, bill the city a thousand dollars an hour for their shovel work, then declare victory and go home -- never having seen the elephant that was standing next to them the entire time.

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Originally Posted by sumas

There is no avoidance. We know our problems. So many individuals, neighborhoods, churches and organizations work daily to deal with these problems. In my neighborhood a trained social worker/teacher works with our kids in summer to improve reading skills. I teach cooking and healthful eating skills, my husband teaches piano. So many churches provide additional support to kids and adults to enhance skills. This is all volunteer work.

Quit bitching, volunteer or put your money where your mouth is. Georgia Street Community Collective is looking for money for backpacks and school supplies.

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I fall in love with you more and more each day. Good post!

Ummm, I hear what you are saying, but we DO have a problem with illiteracy, crime and motivation, withstanding articles, and commentary from Fox news or whatever. Fatherless homes is an issue TOO! And not just a problem cause the repubs point it out!!!

We cannot simply say that these issues are just what someone else SAYS, it is a reality and having a negative impact on our community.

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Originally Posted by antongast

I'm sure if you switch on Fox News sometime you'll find some talking heads who are more to your liking. Now please go away.

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I don't think it is 'automatic' but it is RELATED. It really boils down to values and delayed gratification. We now have generations of illiteracy and that speaks to what a person knows, how they judge, and process the world around them, relative to being motivated to rising above the status quo. And to even apprehend how 'stuff' so to speak is acquired; work ethic, etc. being taught or not taught generationally.

For example, no one in the household is reading, so reading in some class room becomes too abstract and absurd of an idea, it does not related to anything tangible or useful at the gratification level. And if you cannot read you shun the activity further.

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Originally Posted by JenniferL

Why must "illiterate" automatically mean "unwilling to work"? I'm sure some of these folks do want to work-- and do want to learn to read-- but they don't know how to make it happen. It's pretty scary to imagine having to go through life without being able to read. I can't even remember a time when I couldn't read!

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I'm telling you that's the truth. I work and volunteer in education. Each one teach one!

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Originally Posted by sumas

Quit bitching, volunteer or put your money where your mouth is. Georgia Street Community Collective is looking for money for backpacks and school supplies.

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