Sign of construction activity at old Bates Garage lot downtown?

curbed reporting that a fence has gone up...

this would make sense as when Gilbert acquired the lot about 10 months ago part of the provision was that he must start construction within 18 months..

Some rules that also came with it as a reminder:

" If Gilbert wants to build Z-Lot 2.0, it needs to be a swanky, top-shelf facility. It would need to include "substantial" retail/commercial space on Monroe and Randolph. Also required: the capacity to stack at least four stories of non-parking on top, just like the Griswold apartments in Capitol Park. There's also one more requirement that must be met regardless of what gets built: construction must start within 18 months."

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...-garage-20.php

I don't see how all this additional retail space at street level of new garages can ever be filled. It would almost be better just to leave an open floor suitable for a small company or gov't dept. to have a single floor of office space. At least then there would be windows with activity inside on the ground floor.

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Originally Posted by 401don

I don't see how all this additional retail space at street level of new garages can ever be filled. It would almost be better just to leave an open floor suitable for a small company or gov't dept. to have a single floor of office space. At least then there would be windows with activity inside on the ground floor.

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In that case, the windows would just be covered up with blinds or be made with super reflective glass so that no one could see any activity going on inside. No one who works inside an office wants to be on the ground floor with people on the street peeking inside.

Keep in mind that this property is part of the strip that connects Greektown to Campus Martius. Gilbert may very well want first floor something [[retail\office\etc...) to make it a contiguous strip from the heart of the CBD to Greektown.

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Originally Posted by 401don

I don't see how all this additional retail space at street level of new garages can ever be filled.

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So you haven't looked at the Z garage?...the retail space is nearly filled...I believe the last Farmer Street spaces are being built out now...the old Shoppers Park on Broadway [[now replaced by the Opera House garage and built originally by J. L. Hudson Co.) featured a grocery store, lock smith, health food store and at least one other, ditto for the old Bates garage...back in the lete 40's and 50's retail space was included in garage construction. Glad to see it happen again.

Not wanting to be rude, but i am amazed how comments like the quote above can be made without any knowledge of reality or historical perspective.

Even the Book-Cadillac garage is getting a retail tenant. Besides the baseline demand, when you go ahead and build offices or residential above the garage, you create demand.

I hope the retail tenant is something amazing since three of the four lots at this intersection will be parking garages for the foreseeable future.

Well I'm glad everyone thinks the downtown turnaround will be dramatic enough to fill all the existing empty space and more. It's just that most of Woodward is still vacant, the Book Caddy and Opera garage spaces sat empty for 10 yrs. and as we've discussed many times street level retail is a lot harder to fill in the healthiest cities due to its changing nature. In Ontario we have gov't service centers for driver's license renewals, etc. that use large retail spaces instead of having to enter a large office building. This is the type of non-traditional retail I was thinking of.

And Detroitbob to say I have no knowledge or historical perspective because garages were used in the 1940's is ridiculous. We're talking about demand for present-day retail. By that logic we should build another Hudsons because it boomed in the 40's.

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Originally Posted by 401don

Well I'm glad everyone thinks the downtown turnaround will be dramatic enough to fill all the existing empty space and more. It's just that most of Woodward is still vacant, the Book Caddy and Opera garage spaces sat empty for 10 yrs. and as we've discussed many times street level retail is a lot harder to fill in the healthiest cities due to its changing nature. In Ontario we have gov't service centers for driver's license renewals, etc. that use large retail spaces instead of having to enter a large office building. This is the type of non-traditional retail I was thinking of.

And Detroitbob to say I have no knowledge or historical perspective because garages were used in the 1940's is ridiculous. We're talking about demand for present-day retail. By that logic we should build another Hudsons because it boomed in the 40's.

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I think you may be misinterpreting what he said. I don't think hes saying build the garage because they did it in the 40's i think hes saying there is demand on that block for retail and since less attractive ground floor retail places have filled then this would be a no brainier based on location.

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Originally Posted by 401don

Well I'm glad everyone thinks the downtown turnaround will be dramatic enough to fill all the existing empty space and more. It's just that most of Woodward is still vacant, the Book Caddy and Opera garage spaces sat empty for 10 yrs. and as we've discussed many times street level retail is a lot harder to fill in the healthiest cities due to its changing nature. In Ontario we have gov't service centers for driver's license renewals, etc. that use large retail spaces instead of having to enter a large office building. This is the type of non-traditional retail I was thinking of.

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I don't necessarily think that filling in all those spots will be quick or easy, but I would say two things:

1) The increasing worker and resident population will certainly help.

2) If you don't reserve the ground floor spaces for something other than parking, you aren't going to get them back if you want them later.

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Originally Posted by detroitbob

So you haven't looked at the Z garage?...the retail space is nearly filled...I believe the last Farmer Street spaces are being built out now...

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I assume you mean Library... there is the shoe store, 7 Greens, and a Yoga place. It looks as if there are two other spots available, are those leased out already?

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Originally Posted by hewettbr

I think you may be misinterpreting what he said. I don't think hes saying build the garage because they did it in the 40's i think hes saying there is demand on that block for retail and since less attractive ground floor retail places have filled then this would be a no brainier based on location.

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Exactly. The Bates Garage had retail on the Monroe side and, while some spots would come and go, City Slicker, Pulse Lounge and the discount shoe place between them [[name escapes me) were there for for many years. Across Monroe, the Compuware Garage retail spaces are all occupied.

I'm happy to see DEGC required some retail and it came with a deadline to complete. I have no doubts Gilbert will get it done. That said, how come Ilitch gets a pass on the old Madison Lenox site? In return for the city paying to tear the hotel down, Ilitch was given a timeframe to develop the site into something other than a parking lot. Yet, there it is -- a parking lot still today -- about 10 years later.

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Originally Posted by Spartan

I assume you mean Library...

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No, the street name is Farmer with the library being in the median [[cener). The site is Broadway/Farmet/Gratiot/Grand River with the Grand River corner being the site of the old Broadway Market.

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Originally Posted by detroitbob

No, the street name is Farmer with the library being in the median [[cener). The site is Broadway/Farmet/Gratiot/Grand River with the Grand River corner being the site of the old Broadway Market.

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No, Farmer is on the the other side of the library [[next to the Hudson's site) and Library is a short spur that runs a the block between Gratiot and Grand River.

What! is Dan Gilbert putting a great glass cube Apple Store or a City Target at the vacant lot?

False Alarm. It looks like the fencing is only temporary, as this gravel lot is being use by Stacey and Witbeck for M1 Rail staging area.