Anyone at City Council paying attention to what you're putting at risk?
http://freep.com/article/20090411/BUSINESS06/904110360
Anyone at City Council paying attention to what you're putting at risk?
http://freep.com/article/20090411/BUSINESS06/904110360
If people felt safe, you'd have more locals dropping in for weekend events. I did last summer and it was a lot of fun. Course, we won't be going back to Sweet Georgia Brown's anymore.
And it is all about the perception of safety - as downtown IS safe. Midtown is too.
I've been living/working/playing downtown for a decade, and I've only had two incidents. I KNOW that many of the "horror stories" are made up and exaggerations of what happened.
For instance, I was with a suburban acquaintance, and a homeless guy did his "buy a flag" game - you know, stupid flags on toothpicks, and then he hits you up for five bucks - and we just practically ignored him and moved on.
At the bar that night in Birmingham, he's telling all his friends about how he got "accosted" and "got hit" and "was yelled at" and "he had a weapon." Well, if you count a bevy of toothpicks, I guess he coulda hurt him by sticking the toothpicks in his eye. Sorta wished the homeless guy HAD done that at that moment.
That's just one example. The suburban fear thing is bullshit - like the people who talk about how dangerous parts of the city is, but they know because they were BUYING DRUGS and are part of the goddamn problem. Of course, go to a drug-infested part of the city, it might be a bit more dangerous, and even more so if you're scoring coke.
So I have learned to be VERY skeptical of anything I hear; so much of it is inflated b.s., usually laced with racial stereotypes. Bad news always travels better than good news; and information that plays into people's fears travels really well, too.
I'm not saying don't be smart - but I am saying most of the stuff is inflated and overblown.
Sorry Digitalvision [[and I usually agree with you on most things)... but you're going to get clobbered on that post...
Try telling that to former Detroit residents like JAMS who got beat senseless by Detroit thugs, or many of the thousands of other folks who have left Detroit because of the fear for their safety.
Try telling that to the families of the 400+ folks who are murdered on the streets of Detroit each year... try telling that to the families of Detroit children who are murdered by stray bullets flying into their houses.
Granted downtown, midtown, New Center and other areas are pretty safe, but a significant part of the city is not safe to walk at night.
You buddy maybe full of BS, but saying there are not a lot of serious safety problems in Detroit is also just that...
He didn't say that Detroit didn't have crime problems. He said that people from the suburbs tended to exaggerate what they witness while in the city. And furthermore, none of the events, like drug turf wars, that give Detroit its crime reputation, tend to happen in areas that outsiders are likely to visit [[kinda like how tourists to NYC don't even know that places like Brownsville, Brooklyn exist). Nothing you said really refuted his point. I lived in Detroit during the 1980s and 1990s, which were arguably the worst periods for crime in the city's history. But I have never witnessed some of the things that people claim to have seen en route to a Tigers game at Comerica Park... And hell, I even worked at Comerica Park for a year!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
I don't recall DV saying there weren't serious safety issues in Detroit. DV said that Downtown/Midtown was safe. I find it curious though, if someone gets their ass beat in Inkster we don't say the suburbs are unsafe, we say Inkster is unsafe. But if someone gets their ass beat in Brightmore then all of Detroit is a hell hole. That type of thinking helped escalate the problem in the 60's and 70's to where it is today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
gistok,
he was referring to downtown, which is very safe. Most of the neighborhoods? No, not at all.
But if he is talking about having a night out in Detroit, filling the hotels like the article discussed, and the general safety downtown, he is right.
What happened to Jams is unacceptable, disgusting, and sad, but it didn't happen downtown. For now, the city is and must focus on bringing people downtown, which is what digitalvision seemed to be referring to.
I think it's time that more emphasis is put on transit, political, and school reform. Downtown is still important, but the goal was to make a place people would see a benefit of living next to, and attracting visitors to see the changes as they happen. So now it's time for the real changes to pick up momentum and happen. If we can get transit, school reform, and political reform during this recession, then and only then will Detroit really be ready to take advantage of the good times that should follow.Quote:
For now, the city is and must focus on bringing people downtown, which is what digitalvision seemed to be referring to.
Downtown Detroit is as far done as it can be without the proper political structure to keep it up, and good surrounding neighborhoods connected to it.
Didn't two Wayne State students get shot and killed in mid-town this week? Not sure I would call that safe.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,2929875.story
2 Wayne State students were gun downed leaving a nite club on Detroit's East Side.
edit, same as above.
Where the two wayne state students got shot is not the worst of areas, but is far from what I would refer to as safe. It is on the east side right off the freeway and has had its share of problems for years. It is NOWHERE NEAR wayne state, nor should the students have been there. It is not what you would call a college student bar.
Besides, didn't two Henry Ford students get killed this week in Dearborn? Does that mean that Dearborn is unsafe now?
Sorry DV, my bad, I misread that post...
But if you were there when he boasted about it, you probably should have done what I would have done... called him out on making a mountain out of a molehill.
All the folks I have ever taken downtown [[as well as midtown/New Center) and I'm talking about dozens of folks from the suburbs... have all given positive feedback.
Even the couple who I escorted to Belle Isle [[the first time they'd ever been there)... we saw a woman in the middle of winter croutch down near the Conservatory and in broad daylight squat down to take a leak.... we still laugh about that awkward experience as a "gotta go gotta go gotta go right now...Detrol Moment".
And when I take folks downtown and we encounter some whacked out panhandlers [[like the type that DV experienced)... I say "that's just a little thank you from John Engler when he closed down the Lafayette Clinic".
Usually when I take suburban or out of town folks where there may be panhandlers... we preplan to talk in foreign languages [[usually German or French) if approached, and it takes away any unpleasantness from the experience when we walk away pretending we are clueless to what they want.
It helps to take the "edge" off of any unpleasant memories. I usually follow it up afterwards with discussions about how agressive windshield cleaning panhandlers there are in NYC, and the Detroit ones are rather tame by comparison.
A little "spin" goes a long way to make the best of an awkward situation.
Why do we need more big events just to fill the hotels? I thought Detroit was the premier tourist destination.
I think that rondinjp's comment is off-base. There has been a lot of talk about the murder of these WSU students. To say that they "shouldn't have been there" is skirting the issue, isn't it? Harpo's is also on Harper Avenue, IS the kind of place I would say is a "college" destination for some people, and think of all the shit that has gone down there over the years. Leaving a bar on the east side at 2:30 in the morning is a risky enterprise, but that doesn't mitigate the tragedy of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by rondinjp
I agree with digitalvision's comments near the top of this thread regarding downtown and midtown. Having said that, a lot of people on this forum lack a sense of perspective when it comes to crime in metro Detroit.
I'm confused by the comment that they "shouldn't have been there." On what basis are you judging where they should or should not have been? What makes these two any different from anyone else who patronizes that venue? Or should nobody go there ever? Maybe they lived in the neighborhood, were familiar with it, etc. It doesn't preclude them getting carjacked or shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by rondinjp
The city does need more big events to keep those hotel rooms occupied. Last year when the mayors convention pulled outta the city that was a bad sign. This years Final Four seemed to be positive for the city.This whole deal does reminds me of the movie "Land of the Dead".You have an area such as Downtown/Midtown where there are safe streets, stores, and services. Yet the outer part is full of crime, empty stores and people trying to make it through the day.
Just testing, can't seem to log in. I find most areas of the city to be "safe".
No, because the victim had a relationship with the shooter in that case. This means the danger in that situation was not attributed to the geographic area but rather to the relationship, and that the victim would still have been a victim even if they stayed out of that geographic area.Quote:
Originally Posted by rondinjp
What makes an area unsafe is when victims are randomly targeted by criminals within a specific geographic area at a higher rate than the surrounding areas, and where the danger could have been avoided if the victims had stayed out of the area.
I posted another thread about this earlier, but I Hope the Frozen Four fills at leased the Downtown Hotels. It might not be as big as the Final Four, yet it is still a boost!