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The article was published in subscribed editions of Crain's Detroit Business. For those who don't remember, back when the Pontchartrain originally closed a few years back, it was a Crowne Plaza. Now after roughly 5 years [[give or take), Crowne Plaza has returned to downtown Detroit's hotel market. However, reservations under their name won't be accepted until after July 9th, 2009. :D
http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/cp/1/en/hotel/dttcd
I've been told the view from some of the rooms of the downtown buildings and river is quite amazing. Maybe I'll have to spend a night there after July 9:rolleyes:
Best thing they could do is start a weekly music festival...maybe call it Jazz at the top of the Pontch
With a great location and some spectacular views, this should be a goldmine. Something has been wrong with the vibe there, and service has not been great. Maybe a change and some improvements will help. A return of the "Top Of The Pontch" concerts would be nice, too!
The Ponch???
http://blog.newsok.com/joel/files/2008/04/ponch.jpg
From Crains through Google NEWS
The Pontchartrain becomes Crowne Plaza
The former Pontchartrain Hotel in Detroit has picked up the Crowne Plaza flag.
Bookings for the hotel can be made starting in July through the Crowne Plaza brand, a division of Atlanta-based InterContinental Hotels Group, said IHG communications specialist Caroline Sanfilippo.
In August, the hotel was renamed Detroit Riverside Hotel after the Sheraton franchise broke ties with the property's ownership group, Boca Raton, Fla.-based Shubh Hotels L.L.C.
Ownership spent $35 million in renovations before reopening the 367-room property in 2007 under the Sheraton flag.
Changes planned for the hotel include a staff-training program to make customers' stays more restful and a comprehensive program to offer more services to small meetings, said Sanfilippo.
It remains a franchised hotel, she said, so any additional capital improvements will be paid by the ownership group.
— Daniel Duggan
Google news is our friend....Both WSJ and Crains articles are often available through searching Google News...........
They really need better staffing and maintenance, and much better management. The place has been a mess that last several times I was in there or had clients stay there. And that renovation was never really finished, since Sheraton's deal with the management fell apart before it was done. This management has been pretty terrible, treating employees and guests [[and partnering hotel chains) like enemies, and they'll really have to straighten up to hold onto Crowne Plaza this time around.
It's a good sign that a major worldwide chain has taken an interest in the property, even aware of all the competition in the downtown market. Seeing that Westin, Marriot, Hilton, and Doubletree are all downtown probably put Crowne on alert. Crowne will have to be creative in its marketing, and will have to be a partner with the city and various agencies to make sure more conventions come to town.
I believe they have some prominent hotels and resorts in Europe and the Middle East, so they may have a leg up with the European visitors to the city, and hopefully with getting more to visit.
They definitely have issues. The rooms are very small by today's standards and their own parking is too small. It can take forever to get your car back from the garage on Congress where the overflow is sent. To say any downtown hotel "should be a goldmine" is really stretching reality. They have almost 400 rooms to fill. The owner should be banging on Council's door asking when the "gem" next door is going to start renovations before he is forced to turn his hotel over to the city as well.
In ANY other Metropolitan area, this site would be a goldmine.
From the Crain article:
"...Changes planned for the hotel include a staff-training program to make customers' stays more restful and a comprehensive program to offer more services to small meetings..."
Right on, Crain's, after all, the industry is called a "service" industry.
Good service, and imaginative promotion, will be necessary.
So we can assume than in the renovations since it was the Ponchartrain they've replaced the antiques in the lobby, the chandeliers, and the portrait of Count Ponchartrain with some corporate hotel "improvements?"
The Ponchartrain was built with unusual accordion pleated facade walls of glass, and is really a super example of mid-century modern architecture, built in 1965.
Living here in Miami Beach, I can tell you since the Eden Roc and Fontainebleau Hotels were "renovated" they became slick, soulless caverns where spoiled yuppies dance and drink in the lobbies, in fact turning them into night clubs.
Make you wonder how many so-called improvements will be done over the years until people realize it should have been left alone to begin with. They should take a page from the history of the Book Cadillac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorax
So what you are saying is they should have just left the Pontch alone and not made the needed repairs. Lets face it Midcentury architecturewas not made to stand the test of time. Especially cheaply made buildings such as the Pontch, Chase Tower, and Genesee Tower up here in Flint. All built around the same time all pieces of crap.
It's people like you who have total disregard for what most would consider a well-designed building. I would submit to you that the Ponchartrain was indeed well built, and aesthetically pleasing. Floor to ceiling windows in the rooms have a triangular shape, creating a bay window effect which opens up the views in all directions.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby
Sorry if it doesn't live up to your expetations of a Motel 6, which is probably what you think should replace it, but short of replacing mechanicals over the years, carpeting, drapes, some furnishings in the rooms- no, it should have been left alone.
There was nothing wrong with the Pontch's lobby, ballrooms, restaurant, etc. Parking can be expanded by using adjacent lots and structures, and by offering a fee valet service which actually works and is efficient.
Newer hotel chains such as the KOR group hotels designed by Kelly Wearstler, the W chain, and a handful of others are designing hotel interiors in keeping with what the Pontch originally looked like, and are making a fortune creating mid-century modern interiors which ARE THE ATTRACTION when staying in these venues.
Dumbing down the architecture is what happened with Sheraton's "renovation" of the Book Cadillac in the 50's, when many of the historic interiors were destroyed for bland acoustical tiled meeting rooms. There was even areas where formica was used to cover marble! What sort of crap is this? I only hope that in years down the road since the Book has been saved, that the ornate plasterwork interiors, painting and gilding are replaced, as was done with Orchestra Hall.
This kind of ornamentation even today is easily replicated, since they are all simply cast plaster molds, which can be replicated over and over- most in Detroit were either from the Parducci Studios, or ordered through the Voight Company in Philadelphia [[this is where the ceilings of the Art Institute were ordered from).
Mid-century architecture was made to stand the test of time, and has- it's when hotel structures built by corporations years after the Pontch had no discernable architecture, no investment in fine interior finishes, furnishings, lighting, etc. That's when disposable buildings came into being.
I live in Miami Beach were we have plenty of disposable CBS buildings with flat roofs, and the good ones built in the 40's 50's & 60's are butchered till they don't resemble anything of their former selves.
What's the point of this is, I have no idea, since people come here to see the architecture. Las Vegas is particularly bad at preservation of such structures, having demolished just about all of the mid-century modern hotels and putting up garbage in it's place.
In the world of the corporate mind-set of today, bland and badly built is the order of the day. At least in years past corporations or more often, individuals had a hand in making these new structures special. What would the Fontainebleau be without Morris Lapidus responsible for everything from door knobs on up?
What would the Book Cadillac look like without the carte-blanche offered Louis Kamper? How about the Guardian Building without the hand of Wirt Rowland?
The Pontchartrain in no way comes close to the flamboyant architecture of the Eden Roc or the Fontainebleau. The Pontch is pretty bland, overall. If it truly is mid-century modern, it's late in that cycle. Like most post-1960 buildings, it has little style or flourish. Seems like as the '50s died, so did a lot of innovation and creativity in architecture.
I don't know if you've seen the Fontainebleau or Eden Roc lately, but they have been denuded and bear almost no resemblance to their original state on the interior. Only the outsides remain relatively the same.
I would agree the Pontch would be considered late in the cycle of mid-mod, but dramatic in it's use of the exterior accordian pleat glass wall. The public areas were elegant, along the lines of the Doral Hotel [[now a Wyndham Resort)in Miami Beach, which is happily still there and intact. It was going to be replaced by another hideous highrise like the adjacent Blue and Green Diamond, but market conditions ended that, thankfully.
My point in bringing up the Fontainebleau and Eden Roc was that they were single-designer buildings, like Detroit's automobiles once were, and once committee design takes over, any hope of any interesting lines or style go out the window.
Certainly the concensus among critics I know is that the Pontchartrain does qualify as an above average example of it's time, and deserves the respect given older structures which exemplify their respective periods.
Hopefully Crowne Plaza's arrival will spur renewed use and bring a new era to this hotel. Maybe they'll really lobby for Cobo, after all, no other hotel is as convenient to Cobo as the Ponch. The Book Cadillac and Fort Shelby are both 2 or more blocks away, and the casinos are all well beyond that.
Lorax, I'm afraid you've lost me in your point in defending the Ponchartrain...
The International Style [[which is what the Ponch basically is) was developed in the 1950's as a defiance against all the older ornate styles of the first 1/3 of the 20th century. In fact ornamentation is the anathema of the International Style with the "form follows fuction" and "less is more" mentality.
Detroit lost a lot of nice gems due to the International Style... the old Fisher Theatre [[an impossibly wonderful Mayanesque creation) was removed from the building and replaced with a plain marble, brass and teak creation... which, while the International Style materials were quality stuff... the new Fisher today is more "dated" than the old Fisher would have been, had it survived.
So many of downtown Detroit buildings were "bastardized" for the nice clean lines of the International Style... the United Artists, Lafayette, Whitney and Michigan Mutual [[former Stroh HQ on West GCP) all had much of their ornate exterior finishes removed "so that you won't have to look at that old stuff anymore"...
So I guess what you are doing is agruing that what was done to the older buildings shouldn't be done to the more modern buildings??
Well I can agree with that to a certain point. But you will be hard pressed to find many folks here lamenting the original interior of the Ponch.
And as for Miami Beach, one can hardly blame the party crowd for what has happened there... if anything the 1926-48 Art Deco South Beach area, the true gem of Miami Beach... has been resurrected from certain oblivion by the tourism attracted to the area... partyers or not...
If anything, the Post Modern and more recent style of buildings were a reaction against the "minimalist modernism" of the International Style.
One of Detroit's greatest contributions to the International Style is Lafayette Park... and yet, I cannot seem to get out of towners remotely interested in it, whenever I take folks on tour of the downtown area. Even bus loads of German tourists [[I've taken 5 bus loads on a downtown tour so far) are ambivalent to their namesake's [[Mies Van Der Rohe) contribution to Detroit architecture.
Now although the International Style is not my forte, I do want to see Ford Auditorium saved as a premier Detroit example of that style.
But to get folks worked up over the loss of the original interior of the Ponch? Good luck with that... it's like being mad that the original Fisher Theatre was ripped out... too late to get worked up over that...
... and one last thing... no matter how much quality materials went into the design of the former NDB HQ [[Chase Tower)... it still looks like a giant cheese grater...
Pigs ears and purses...
After years of slipshod 'renovations' and staff who could give a toss, the former Ponch is a wash. After watching Herb Strather bumble up the St Regis 'renovation' I'd say this one is another candidate for the 'It SEEMED like a good idea at the time..' routine.
Gistok, sorry to have lost you on the point of the Pontch. However, I was in no way equating the butchering of historic structures with the design of the Pontch. There is no comparison, and you shouldn't, and I hope don't think there is any resemblance.
In no way does the crummy "renovation" of the Whitney, the Stroh Building, or the Lafayette compare.
The Pontch was an architect designed structure, and most people who are familiar with the Pontch give it high marks for it's overall design, including it's unexpected lobby and interior.
While I am in complete agreement that the other structures you mentioned should never have been touched, in the case of the Fisher Theatre, I feel that it's current interior design should not be touched either.
There is nothing short of returning it to it's Mayan deco spelendor that could be an improvement over how it looks today, which is, like it's Mayan predecessor, a snapshot of design, albeit good design, frozen in time.
In fact, the Fisher has had it's current interior design longer than it had the Mayan decor, and should be a consideration whether it's ever changed again.
You mention how foreigners don't like the Lafayette Park development, which I can understand, knowing how much of that sort of look has been built in Europe, especially in light of the immense destruction of the built environment brought on by WWII.
I, being American, and knowing the genius of our import, Mies van Der Rohe, can really appreciate it's qualities and it's place in our architectural heritage.
But good examples such as the Pontch, and even greater examples like the old Michcon [[One Woodward) also have their place.
And I particularly have a fondness for the old NBD [[Chase) building which is open, airy, and used superior materials in it's construction. Cheese grater, or not!
One final note, Gistok, the historic district of Miami Beach you refer to unfortunately has suffered as of recent years from relaxed standards in what quantifies a "renovation".
Lousy modern signage has been allowed on most buildings, facade reconfiguring which ruins the original line of the building, anodized aluminum impact resistant windows, insensitive landscaping, the removal of architectural features such as eyebrows and sunscreens has changed the architectural face of the beach, and now being the victim of it's own success, has turned it into the tourist trap it's become.
Lorax, most of my knowledge of the Miami Beach Deco district comes from books by the late Barbara Ann Capitman, the patron saint of Miami Beach restoration. Sorry to hear that they've changed some of the features of some of those treasures.
Yes, the Fisher is made of quality materials, and is of the era of the Lincoln and Kennedy Centers as far as performing art goes. There is a surviving Mayanesque ornate plaster wall with Mayan cartouches still intact in some hidden area of the theatre that I would love to see removed and preserved elsewhere.
You are right about the "New Fisher" [[48 years) being around longer than the "Old Fisher" [[33 years). Unfortunately when they removed the old theatre shell, they shrunk the theatre from 2,975 seats down to 2,089 seats [[it NEVER had 3,500 seats, as some websites claim).
And now they want to increase the size up to 2,450 seats. I'm not sure if this already announced remodeling has been put on hold, or is still in the works,
Likely such an increase in seating would involve increasing seating in back of the balcony [[which war reduced in size for the 1961 remodeling), and may not change the interior too much. From what I gather, some of the changes have already taken place in expanding restrooms and other minor features.
One modern building that has benefitted from a major remodeling has been the Renaissance Center. The addition of the Wintegarten and new glass facade [[sans the berms), was an improvement over John Portman's original "fortress" design.
Does anyone know of any photos of the original interior?
Agreed, Gistok. The Renaissance Center has benefitted from the work done, although the fabric hangings which were removed lent a dimensional, altogether period look to the place.
There is additional room for a mobile or two, or perhaps a Chihuly glass installation would benefit from the light coming in from around the towers. The berm removals were an A+ improvement.
I do hope GM eventually removes the giant logo from the top of the hotel tower, though, it kind of looks like what it really is, tacked on. And I don't mean that from the possiblity of them not being there! Strictly for aesthetic reasons.
A for Miami Beach and the late Barbara Capitman, sadly much of her vision for the beach didn't outlive her. Certainly the bulk of the historic district is still intact, however living here as long as I have, you notice things missing just in everyday passing-by.
Historic signage lost, or worse, replaced with strip mall quality backlit letters tacked on to facades, or freestanding, perched on the edge of overhangs.
Windows replaced with cheap green or silver anodized low quality replacements, made necessary due to code changes since the 04/05 rash of hurricanes, which dropped historical guidelines in favor of expedience.
Zoning changes which allow for monstrous highrises next door to two story buildings, or original entrances re-located, terrazzo flooring tiled over, architectural elements removed little by little.
Morris Lapidus' legacy hasn't fared much better and has been just about erased. Last year a developer imploded the Americana Hotel in Bal Harbour, which was a 50's tropical fantasy when it opened, and was butchered by Sheraton years later when turned into a dull corporate looking hotel, with only traces of it's mid-century elegance remaining.
Even on super rich Fisher Island, they just this week demolished the fabulous coral rock paneled boat house and tower which were built by the Vanderbilt family in the 1920's, and later used by Gar Wood to store and race boats from.
The mansion is still there and is used as the clubhouse for the private residential island, but as I have said, it's all being chipped away at, bit by bit.
You would be surprised how many guests at the Pontch leave their room draperies open even when they are running around with little or no clothes on or engaging in bedroom activities! When I worked in the One Woodward building on the 19th floor, one of the fellows with a view of the hotel kept binoculars on his desk and often spied on the unsuspecting.