Auto Strike?

According to the latest report there is a 24 hour deadline and by this time tomorrow UAW Fiat-Chrysler's could be picketing. Sure those are often dramatics in these 'deadlines' but there is something out of whack this time around. It started with a cozy and peaceable agreement, all smiles, handshakes and hugs between Chrysler's Marchionne and UAW's Williams and the contract was recommended to the members.

Then it went to a vote. And resoundingly went down in flames 2-1. Not even close.

It is revealing a huge and embarrassing disconnect between the UAW leadership and the members. It appears the wishes and aspirations of the line workers were not comprehended.

From everything I read, my interpretation is that the disconnect comes down main from some of the changes that were made in order to keep the automaker viable back in crisis days. Specifically, the two tier wage system and the scheduling system. It seems that the workers take is that since the crisis is now over, the concessions should be eliminated or drastically scaled back, and FCA sees that they're necessary to remain profitable. The UAW leadership seemed to try to straddle the fence, but has now learned that by trying to make both FCA and their workers happy at the same time, they ended up making nobody happy.

I hope that there is no strike. It would be bad for both sides. It would cripple FCA, and I think sentiment and backlash against the UAW would be very high. Remember, outside of Michigan, many Americans did not want the bailouts to take place that saved the industry, and if they see the UAW as trying to "put things as they were before", that could create a lot of negative sentiment against the workers.

I don't fully understand UAW dynamics...

So Chrysler and UAW negotiated in good faith and came to an agreement that the UAW recommended to its members. The member's didn't agree. Wouldn't the next step be to go back to the table and at least try to negotiate, as Chrysler already came to an agreement with UAW leadership that they thought was acceptable for workers?

If they do miss the deadline, what is going to happen next? Will the other companies aligned with UAW strike as well?

Honda-Toyota-Nissan will just increase their production [[and market share).

The talk today by Paul Eisenstein of the Detroit Bureau is that the UAW will engage in hit and run strikes starting with the hot-selling Jeep Wrangler plant in Ohio. However if the leadership was so out of touch on the agreement they negotiated will they be able to contain wildcats at other plants. [Wildcat is this sense may not be accurate as no contract will be existing.]

Either way it seems Williams is in a lose-lose situation. If Chrysler caves and gives more concessions, likely since they are making lots of monthly reporting double-digit sales gains just last month, Williams will appear to the members as if he made a weak agreement when he could/should have done better. And what if they reject the next agreement.

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Originally Posted by sirrealone

From everything I read, my interpretation is that the disconnect comes down main from some of the changes that were made in order to keep the automaker viable back in crisis days. Specifically, the two tier wage system and the scheduling system. It seems that the workers take is that since the crisis is now over, the concessions should be eliminated or drastically scaled back, and FCA sees that they're necessary to remain profitable. The UAW leadership seemed to try to straddle the fence, but has now learned that by trying to make both FCA and their workers happy at the same time, they ended up making nobody happy.

I hope that there is no strike. It would be bad for both sides. It would cripple FCA, and I think sentiment and backlash against the UAW would be very high. Remember, outside of Michigan, many Americans did not want the bailouts to take place that saved the industry, and if they see the UAW as trying to "put things as they were before", that could create a lot of negative sentiment against the workers.

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FCA would be likely be willing to eliminate two-tier. But would the UAW be willing to move everyone to the blended average wage?

The world has changed. The UAW has not. This is the core problem with Unions. They are not progressive, but regressive.

You're 100% right about the bailouts. I wanted to see the car companies crash and burn 100% too. Only by failure would both management and labor figure out that the model didn't work. A failure would have made other companies and their workers make adjustments that would help keep American employment. But we bailed.

The non-Michigan public thinks it was a mistake. The UAW thinks it wasn't enough. Funny this is coming up on the day that Obama betrayed the working class w/ TPP, to his great credit.

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Originally Posted by 48307

I don't fully understand UAW dynamics...

So Chrysler and UAW negotiated in good faith and came to an agreement that the UAW recommended to its members. The member's didn't agree. Wouldn't the next step be to go back to the table and at least try to negotiate, as Chrysler already came to an agreement with UAW leadership that they thought was acceptable for workers?

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In this case, the message the workers sent by the rejection was directed as much at their own leadership as it was at the company.

From what a Chrysler employee told me, is that 2 of the stumbling blocks are moving the Chrysler 200 production to Mexico, and not getting rid of the 2-tier pay system. Also, the language of the contract wasn't made TOTALLY clear to the membership.

Either way, Williams is probably done. The UAW leadership has been extremely weak on issues like tiered contracts and outsourcing jobs, and leaders like Williams are rightly seen by many as being overly tight and conciliatory with management.

To make a nice cozy almost-no-change agreement with Fiat-Chrysler at a time when that company is benefiting tremendously from earlier worker sacrifices and planning to move a large chunk of production to Mexico was bad enough. Then just sending it to the membership with little explanation and the apparent expectation that they would rubber-stamp it, even with no roll-backs on previous "emergency" concessions, was almost ludicrously tone-deaf.

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

...was almost ludicrously tone-deaf.

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Or might have truly been in the members best interest -- in spite of their thoughts on the matter. Sometimes, leadership must lead, not follow their members into oblivion. Figuring out which is which. That's the problem.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Or might have truly been in the members best interest -- in spite of their thoughts on the matter. Sometimes, leadership must lead, not follow their members into oblivion. Figuring out which is which. That's the problem.

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Well, except that, unlike a corporation, unions are democracies and thus leadership has to be able to get its agreements ratified by the membership. Agreeing to a contract that doesn't respond to most of the needs expressed by the membership, and then not bothering to explain to the people who will be voting on the offer why you didn't or couldn't fight for those things, is not very good leadership in a democracy.

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Also, the language of the contract wasn't made TOTALLY clear to the membership.

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That's very interesting. You think it would be a very important thing that UAW exec's would have a team of people focused on.

I've turned down doing business with some companies because they had a competitor similar in price with a much more simple contract.

I can't blame them. What kind of contract is good for membership that involves moving production to Mexico. So when gas prices hit $4 a gallon again and people stop buying the "high profit" suvs, the Americans are first to lose their jobs while the Mexicans can keep on pumping out more fuel efficient vehicles at $5 a day or whatever they get.

heres what i have gotten from people who actually work in the plants:

the UAW publishes a "highlights" book prior to the ratification vote. the 2011 H.B. eliminated by the end of contract, the 2-tier pay scale for all 2-tier employees over 25%. when the contracted expired in september 2015, the 2-tier employees were not at parity. when it was brought up that this was agreed to, the employees were told "that language was NOT in the contract"...

the 2-tier pay scale DID go away with the 2015 proposed contract. it became a 3-tier pay scale. the legacy [[pre-2007) employees would get pay raise of under $1.00 per hour, the top part of the 2-tier [[hired 2007-20011?) would move up to about 90% of current legacy employees and those hirees after 2011 would top out at about 77% of the top half of 2-tier employees...

the alternative work schedule wasnt taken out. this allows for management to work someone 10 hours a day, 2 days on day shift, 2 days on midnights, have 3 days off, then 2 days afternoons, 2 days day shift, then 3 days off. it continually rotated through the 3 shifts. saturdays were straight time, sundays were straight time. it effectively eliminated nearly all of the overtime. some people like working [[regardless of what the general public has to say about the UAW) and use that money for extra toys, property, or just general spending money...

there was a paltry pay raise in 2 of 4 of the years of the contract. the profit sharing was skewed to the company's benefit and bonuses were based on SUPERVISION performance in the companys latest quality program...

health care from what i understand was not explained to the benefits reps prior to the roll out and the union did nothing to explain a lot of the "highlights" to the membership...


the membership hadnt seen any increases in wages in around 10 years, they gave back to the company in 2011 when the union forced the membership to adopt that years contract and tired of seeing management getting bonus checks for [[sometimes) 125% of their annual pay. a LOT of the issues Chrysler dealt with was management's fault. THEY direct the workforce....

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Originally Posted by Ltdave

heres what i have gotten from people who actually work in the plants:

the UAW publishes a "highlights" book prior to the ratification vote. the 2011 H.B. eliminated by the end of contract, the 2-tier pay scale for all 2-tier employees over 25%. when the contracted expired in september 2015, the 2-tier employees were not at parity. when it was brought up that this was agreed to, the employees were told "that language was NOT in the contract"...

the 2-tier pay scale DID go away with the 2015 proposed contract. it became a 3-tier pay scale. the legacy [[pre-2007) employees would get pay raise of under $1.00 per hour, the top part of the 2-tier [[hired 2007-20011?) would move up to about 90% of current legacy employees and those hirees after 2011 would top out at about 77% of the top half of 2-tier employees...

the alternative work schedule wasnt taken out. this allows for management to work someone 10 hours a day, 2 days on day shift, 2 days on midnights, have 3 days off, then 2 days afternoons, 2 days day shift, then 3 days off. it continually rotated through the 3 shifts. saturdays were straight time, sundays were straight time. it effectively eliminated nearly all of the overtime. some people like working [[regardless of what the general public has to say about the UAW) and use that money for extra toys, property, or just general spending money...

there was a paltry pay raise in 2 of 4 of the years of the contract. the profit sharing was skewed to the company's benefit and bonuses were based on SUPERVISION performance in the companys latest quality program...

health care from what i understand was not explained to the benefits reps prior to the roll out and the union did nothing to explain a lot of the "highlights" to the membership...


the membership hadnt seen any increases in wages in around 10 years, they gave back to the company in 2011 when the union forced the membership to adopt that years contract and tired of seeing management getting bonus checks for [[sometimes) 125% of their annual pay. a LOT of the issues Chrysler dealt with was management's fault. THEY direct the workforce....

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So the UAW's happy with management, but members aren't happy with union management. The UAW is effectively the members employer then, it seems.

Deal done and ratified. 2 tier pay structure to be faded out.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/car...ract/74380230/

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Deal done and ratified. 2 tier pay structure to be faded out.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/car...ract/74380230/

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A quick scan of that it appears the retirees are being tossed under the bus.....again. Hope things go better at the other two.

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Originally Posted by mikefmich

A quick scan of that it appears the retirees are being tossed under the bus.....again. Hope things go better at the other two.

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Do retirees vote in Union elections?

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Do retirees vote in Union elections?

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Yes, with certain exceptions.