What's happening at the Mercury Coffee Bar? Will it be used for something else? Will it be sold? Is the partnership dissolved? Will something take it's place by the Slow's people? Give me the latest scoops.
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What's happening at the Mercury Coffee Bar? Will it be used for something else? Will it be sold? Is the partnership dissolved? Will something take it's place by the Slow's people? Give me the latest scoops.
Gosh, you're saying that it has closed?
I guess that glorious view of the breathtaking and hauntingly beautiful old train station wasn't such a draw, long-term. Huh!
Hhmm. Maybe they should tear down the train station, after all. Alas; no love for an unsalvageable, wretchedly fucked-up monstrosity of a building's shell.
R, you're too funny.
Eph McNally's?
Slow's Other Place?
McDonalds?
It will reopen... The question is just when and as what. Whatever it turns into, I have faith that it will happen and will be classy.
be careful with the speculation, andylinn. unless you really know inside information, any talk about one of the partners retaining some interest could be harmful to an overall resolution of their existing conflict. from what I have heard, mr. cooley has a very minimal stake in the venture. don't add fuel to the existing partners' concerns about anyone "taking over" with baseless speculation.
god, that place lasted 5 minutes!
the quick fall of the MCB has absolutely nothing to do with the economy or with a lack of interest or support for such an enterprise in the city of Detroit.
it failed because of certain [[unnecessary) preopening costs and too many owners with unrealistic expectations. the business never stood a chance.
if you want to back up that argument, look inside the window of the MCB and see all the crap just piled up. That's all wasted money. The owners had absolutely no clue. I wonder what's going to happen with the 10,000 dollar staircase? [[ I think it was 10-30,000 but can't remember which?)
the folks contratcted to do some of the buildout, including the stairs, are fantastic craftsmen, based in the city, so lets be sure not rake them over the coals because of the owner's business decision to go ahead with the projects, eh? quality craftsmanship and design cost money
what about andrew zago's rumored six figure fee?
there was nothing wrong with the prices at MCB. sure, a bunch of whiny cheap deeply-entrenched Detroiters didn't like the $7 sandwiches, but those whiners were well outnumbered by the people lining up for $7 sandwiches and slow coffees. There was a market here for high-quality coffee and delicious, healthy fare and it was briefly met by the MCB.
People need to stop repeating the falsehood that it was prices or lack of business that forced closure of the MCB. It was just a case of too many owners in the back office, and too many expensive projects before the place opened.
Perhaps, but if they had been able to do more business, and/or been able to lower their prices, perhaps they could've survived their overspending and undercapitalization better. But it really did seem like a bad mixture of inexperience, very unrealistic expectations, not anywhere near enough capital, and far too much ego.Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterferry
Most restaurants open after being undercapitalized in the first place and spending too much money pre-opening, and that's the main reason most restaurants fail and end up changing owners. The second owner, if he gets the place cheap enough, often is able to succeed; and if not, there's always a third owner waiting in the wings. This happens so often it's the norm in that business. [[Prof was in the restaurant biz once.)
With all of that valuable equipment in there doing nothing, I just can't believe that they won't simply pay someone $11 an hour to operate the espresso machine and at least keep the place open. How could locking the doors and turning out the lights be the better option?
You can't just pay someone $11 an hour. No restaurant would close if all you had to pay was for the help and the food and drink ingredients. You need to pay rent, taxes, heat, lights, insurance, cleaning, pest control, license fees, pay for the cash register, decor, maintenance. Collectively restaurant folks refer to all that crap as the "fixed nut", and if you can't make the fixed nut, you can't stay in business.
I was perfectly willing to buy one of their $7 sandwich once in a while. The food was great. The coffee was great.
The same thing that happened to mercury coffee bar happened to asian village. And each time people I know lost jobs. I think asian village turned into a club/party place, maybe mcb should just turn into some seedy after hours joint. Those seem to do well in detroit.
Since they're occupying the building, they're already paying for the rent, taxes, maintenance and insurance anyway. And the cash register and decor have already been bought and are just sitting there. That's my point. With all of those expensive things just sitting there, how could it possibly not be worth it to at least just turn on the effin' coffeemaker?Quote:
Originally Posted by professorscott
Psewick, just as a guess, I'm going to surmise that they in fact are not paying the rent etc. If someone knows for certain differently, let us know.
Usually when a single-unit location dies, there's a certain rhythm to the death. First stop paying rent, since it takes quite a while to evict somebody. If you have loans out, which you almost certainly do, stop paying them. If you're a risk-taker, stop paying taxes and insurance. Start paying your suppliers 45 days instead of 30, then 60 instead of 45, then 90. You can keep limping as long as your suppliers will deliver and you can pay your employees. Stop doing any maintenance whatever. Finally, when you realize you won't be able to make next week's payroll, or when Sysco calls you and apologizes that all deliveries will be COD from now on, you put a sign in the window and lock the doors.
There are variations on this opera, but that's the essence of how it rolls out. It happens with astonishing regularity.
Yes, you really can't blame the failure to sell expensive sandwiches on cheap whiners in the poorest and most unemployed major city in America.
the cheapest sandwich on the menu was 7 dollars which is nuts. They just had to grand of plans for what they were doing. They told us we were going to get benefits for god sake,!What coffee shop can give their cooks benefits!
$7 for a sandwich? You know what's nuts? How cheap Detroiters are. In the long run they'll be happy they went out of business instead of listening to this kind of whining.
People are plenty willing to spend $7 [[or more) for a sandwich in Corktown. Mudgie's is doing good business with their $8-$10 sandwiches. Le Petit Zinc has $4-$8 crepes/croisssants and they did such good business their first weekend that they ran out of food. Slows sandwiches are around $10 and they are crowded all the time.
Cass Cafe, Eph McNally's, Russel Street Deli all charge at least $7 for a sandwich and are doing well.
The problem is that no one was going to pay $7 for a crappy sandwich with tiny slivers of meat on a equally tiny piece of toast.
there is nothing wrong with seven dollars for a sandwich, it just better be worth 7 dollars. Mudgies is a fine example of what a sandwich should be at that price[[very high quality ingredients with a good amount of meat also quality). The mercury Bar sandwiches were about the size of a Slim Jim from Big Boy. The average customer is going to want something that fills them up, and the average customer pays the bills more than the customer who wants it for the quality. Some might disagree but that's just how it is.
chitaku, you lost your job at the mcb well before the place went under. are we supposed to believe your opinions are unbiased?
yes: many, many detroiters are cheap [[especially the ones WITH money). yes: many, many detroiters love unhealthily large portion sizes. but the MCB wasn't catering to that crowd. I was never in there when it wasn't hopping. there are only a handful of coffee shops in the entire city of detroit, and beyond that only one or two that maintain consistent, day+evening hours. there were and are plenty of people who don't gripe about paying a fair price for healthy, artisanal-quality meals and the very highest quality coffee available [[in a beautiful location with consistent hours).
so a bunch of dyes whiners didn't like paying $7 for a reasonably-proportioned sandwich that wasn't slathered in mayo and boring meats and cheese. who cares. there were plenty of people supporting this place, but the ownership's existing debts killed any chance to keep it open.
complain all you want, but it wasn't a lack of support or high prices that brought this place down.
hey Dex you make it sound like Chitaku had his hand in the closing of the place. Not true. He hasn't changed his tune since January, he was sounding the alert that something was squirly in the place long before it closed. And because it did close, Chitaku seems pretty on-target.
The bride and I had a nice lunch there. Couple of sandwiches and coffees shared a desert and took home a bag of coffee beans.
$37.00.
Never went back, it was nice, but it wasn't that nice. $37.00 for lunch... next to a burned out hotel, down the street from a ruin. jeeze. I can eat lunch for a week, maybe two, on $37.00 .
no, I'm saying chitaku had an axe to grind even before the place closed. despite that, I have agreed with many of chitaku's criticisms. but it is still criticism coming from a disgruntled ex employee.
as much as you want it to make a difference, it doesn't really matter that you and your bride never went back. a lot of people did, including me. And every time I did, the place was packed.
who cares about your individual experience. why am I supposed to care about your tab? it wasn't like the prices weren't posted. nobody put a gun to your head. squabbling about the prices gets in the way of what I think really matters here: the owners of this business squandered an opportunity to turn that corner into a fixture of corktown because they went way overboard on preparations. that location can sustain a really nice coffee shop [[even with $2 coffee! gasp!) but now a bunch of losers are sitting around on the internet blaming the economy or the size of the panini rather than blaming the other major mistakes made by this gaggle of owners who screwed it up big time.
So a disgruntled ex-employee shouldn't have an opinion? Who better to have an opinion. Who would know the inside scoop any better? If you agreed with some of his criticisms, you're validating much of what he's saying. Yeah, maybe an ex-employee has an axe to grind, but ex-employee has a lot to contribute to this discussion. Keep putting it out there.
I think it was primarily mismanagement. But when I ate there I was still hungry and felt like the price was too expensive. Not too expensive to keep me from going back though.
The day I ate there was a week or two before it closed and it was packed. Almost every seat was filled. So I agree it was not the economy or bad panini.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnome
$37 is a bit of dough for lunch.
But, you probably bought $12 beans. Which puts the price of two lunches and a dessert at $25. Which is right about what I spend every time my girlfriend makes me take her out.
Point is, you spent an average amount for two people for lunch at a decent place. If you wanted something cheap, there's McDonald's all over this city.
Also, ever been to Starbucks? If one was silly enough to buy a lunch at Starbucks similar to the one you had at the MCB, you'd pay the roughly the same. The only difference is, Starbucks is a big ass chain. Their food is not local. Their coffee is not fair trade. And it looks stupid.
No one ever says anything about Starbucks.
No axe to grind here man, just telling it like it is. I was raised in the food biz, i don't mind paying for quality food at all. I buy food for 10 bucks a plate from the Detroit Evolution Laboratory because it is filling and I don't mind paying for the high quality and for good people. The sandwich at MCB was small man...Go to Mudgies get a Sho'Nuff which I believe is about 7-8 bucks, and see what a good sandwich made with local ingredients is all about. The food at MCB tasted damn good, but the portons were rediculously small for the prices. While a few people might not mind that...the average customer [[see paying bills) does mind.
okay, so I guess we're just going to have to disagree about whether the portion sizes had anything to do with the demise of the business.
Can we agree on this:
Corktown, and larger Detroit, has a need for another coffee shop, particularly one that serves high-quality beans and is CONSISTENTLY open during the posted hours [[and not just the work week).
Part of the reason I may seem to be ranting about how it was the stupid business decisions and not a lack of support/prices is because I don't want to scare off a reasonable business person from stepping in and running a great coffee shop there that will be supported by the community.
complaining about and blaming the prices obfuscates the reality that this business was well-supported by the community. maybe it didn't please everyone, particularly our "frugal" gnomes with "simple tastes", but there are plenty of people with finer taste here who appreciate an excellent cup of coffee and a unique place to enjoy it.
The Mercury Bar is currently closed due to financial RED TAPE! A first blunder to exploit Michigan Ave's. Corktown Coridor. Don't know how the owners got into their situation, but they need to ready shape up that place or ship out.
I'm not sure how much Corktown desperately needs another coffee shop. Are people who live in Corktown incapable of scooting under MCD going over to Cafe Con Leche, which serves reasonable priced, good quality coffee and actually deigns to cater to the tastes of people who live in the neighborhood instead of creating some imagine Ann Arborite ideal of what Detroiters should drink?
when's the last time you "scooted under the MCD" to go to cafe con leche, annalouise? he moved his coffee shop to mexicantown several months ago.
and if he was doing such a good job catering to the tastes of the neighborhood, why was it almost always empty [[maybe it was the Spanish/Ferndale ideal of what Detroiters should drink that was the problem).
It looks like cafe con Leche is doing better in the new location on West Vernor. I drove past it this morning and several people inside so early.
yeah, and I go there all the time. but to breakdown annalouise's conclusion:
coffee shop that always full but with way too much overhead= "Ann Arborite ideal of what Detroiters should drink"
coffee shop that was always empty but had Mexican art on the wall= "what Detroiters actually want"
annalouise sounds like another one of those anti-gentrification uberlefty nutters who is doing no one a service by repeating the falsehood that MCB was somehow not serving the Detroit community [[i.e. that mind-bogglingly insulting "review" in the MT). every time I was in there, I saw people who were enjoying good coffee: black and white, working class and hipster/yuppie. It's so insulting and patronizing to say that this was some "Ann Arborite ideal of what Detroiters should drink" when there were plenty of Detroiters there voting with their wallets while cafe con leche sat empty.
Cafe con Leche was ok busy this morning around eight-thirty.
They maybe had ten people in when I dropped in for my double espresso wake-me-up.
Carry outs were all beautiful women, too, come to think of it.
It has always been busy. Corktown could use a Jordi for Michigan Avenue.
dex, the problem I had was that the MCB didn't seem like a value. A value isn't just a cheap price, it is a fair return on dollars expended. Value does not equal cheap just as quality doesn't equal quanity. Different stuff.
But Dex, you hint that you have additional information on the behind the scenes dynamics. Beyound having 9 folks running the place, I don't know anything about it, but I'd certainly be interested in reading your thoughts.
PCM. I bought 6 oz of beans. Magic beans, they weren't.
Yep. Cafe con Leche was empty for a long time. It was in a terrible location. Now that it's in a better location it's pretty consistently busy, or at least it's busy every time I go in there. Other people's mileage may vary.
On that topic, MCB may have looked busy during the lunch time rush but was completely and utterly empty outside the hours of 11-2, to the point where employees spent most of their time doodling in the store diary and twiddling their thumbs. Even during the busiest time the line cooks spent most of their work days twiddling anyway because such a small number of people ordered food....because it was bad. Maybe Mercury could have survived as a straight up coffee shop, but it was never successful as a restaurant.
Evidently some of ya'll liked the food. I figure you are suckers, but hey, everyone's tastes are different; I even hear rumors of people who enjoy the food at Steak Hut.
But if we're really interested in having a business in that space let's not delude ourselves about the reasons Mercury closed. They [[or Todd Wickstrom in his interviews anyway) believed that Mercury was a beacon of light in a food desert, the only good restaurant in a neighborhood full of White Castles and fried fish joints. When they were actually putting a restaurant in the middle [[by a very liberal arts definition of "middle") of three Detroit neighborhoods that are famous for their great restaurants. They thought they could skate on being the first and only, when they actually just a mediocre imitation of the local artisinal food that Traffic Jam and Mudgies/Eph's had been selling for years. They thought they could charge through the nose for lunch when fantastic $3 lunches are available all over Southwest.
Want to open a business in Detroit? Sell a good product that people want. Know your market. Respect your market.
There's a reason that even the people who will rant and rave about the evils of the Cooly brothers will still eat at Slows.
And for the love of God, people. If you are so desperate for your froo-froo coffee they sell the same brand at Honeybee now.
Well, thanks, Annalouise for the information about the coffee at Honeybee's. I did love that coffee. Maybe I will try to make it at home - but I don't have the right recipe for most coffee.
As to $300 lunches all over mexicantown - you are right. I often have a sit-down lunch with fresh pico at Taqueria Tapatia for $3.50 - two steak tacos and rice/beans. It is an obsession!
Two greasy Tacos , Lard filled beans, and rice with a very high sodium content. sounds FANTASTIC!!Quote:
Originally Posted by annalouise
So the 7 dollars you saved on lunch can go towards your gym membership.
yeah, his new shop is nowhere near vernor like the old one, it requires an entirely different route strategy that doesn't invlove passing by or scooting under the MCD in any way, especially coming from corktown.Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterferry
gravity: yeah, that's why things were always hopping at his old location! just a scoot from the vibrant vernor business district! people were crossing the construction in DROVES.
anna are you jane slaughter, because it sounds like you're humming the same insulting and paternalistic tune she sang in her review.
if they sell intelligentsia coffee at honeybee I'll eat my hat.
I have to say I'm enjoying this link I initiated. My original intent to solicit information about the MCB, it's start-up, business and demise is living up to my expectations. I live in Ypsi/A2 area and spend a fair amount of time in Detroit, my 'neighborhood', so to speak. Having a relationship with Todd and Zingerman's, and hoping the best for Detroit, I was supportive of the MCB. I'd waited years for Lopez to open and operate. Because of the distance between me and the MCB, I only patronized it a few times. It was lively and busy each time I went. The food and coffee were good and it presented another option - another alternative. Might be the last time, or maybe the first, I can't quite remember, I went on 'Angel's Night', while on patrol. The place was hopping. We had excellent coffee. I understand why multiple partners can be a problem. I also understand how doing business in Detroit can be a problem [[city hall, city hall, city hall!). Not to diminish opinions expressed here, the MCB's demise is a bad thing. No matter how much they may have f*+#%d up, or not, the demise is a bad thing for everyone involved. I'm not the biggest fan of coffee house culture, but we can sure use more in Detroit. 'Walk to' coffee houses, 'corner' coffee houses, 'basement' coffee houses, etc, etc, etc. The more, the merrier.
You guys are all right about why it closed. From day one it was an overhead mess with the 50 employees that were hired. Todd had all of the managers believing this was some sort of food utopia. His exact saying was-"Everyone can get whiskey and onion rings but we have something better". It was his arrogance coupled with the other owner/managers gullibility and inexperience that was a major problem.
A lot of the people that were invested are good folk, they just made a big mistake trusting Todd. Todd also had issues dealing with employees, which caused a lot of disgruntled employees who have friends in the neighborhood who would of frequented the business. After hiring 50 people in August they strung them along until they opened in October. Then they slowly did not schedule people or gave them one day every other week. Couple that with the crazy amounts of food that would get delivered every day. Nothing but waste! They were planning on lines out the door from day one without even a hint of advertising. I mean it really is common sense, when starting a business don't blow all your money on decorating! In the long run it is the food that brings people back not the decor. When I cooked in high school, my boss had a saying "We're not selling shoes here" and he was right, it's all about the food! For proof of that go to Noble Fish in Clawson. The place is always packed and all it is is the back of a grocery store! Hopefully something can go in there and I do believe a coffee shop in that spot can succeed, just have to take a different approach and not think you are going to create a 1000 jobs with a coffee shop. [[yes they thought they were going to do that.) I have no axe to grind with the Detroit Mercury Bar owners, they honestly had no clue and I can't blame them for that. Todd on the other hand is an arrogant jerk and really deserved his fate.
I'm sorry to hear your opinion of Todd because I know him and worked with him. I considered Todd a visionary and enjoyed working with him, though I likely didn't work with him as much or as closely as you did. He was always way above and way ahead in his thinking. But, I think we all know that arrogance and visionary are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I was hoping the best for all involved and excited about a new business in Detroit. Thanks for your close up input, Chitaku.
John Lopez was supposed to open the Mercury Coffee Bar for the longest time. What happened? I mean besides the fact he was all tied up with opening Twingos.