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The TSA will either pat you down or feel you up, whatever they feel like when you travel this season. If you deny a full body XRay scan with possible long term cancer implications they will shout out for the crew to give you a good feel up or pat down, however you look at it.
Hasn't the war on terror turned nice?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...mn15_ST1_N.htm
The thought of some 25 YO TSA high school drop out feeling my mother for weapons makes me sick to my stomach.
Most average Americans will just ask what you have to hide if you complain.
Not a nation of intellectuals by any means. Just sheep who like to sled down the slippery slope as long as there is beer and tits at the bottom.
Damn. All this time I thought those were at the TOP.
I'm sure somebody told me that...more than once!
Can we request a young female TSA screener when they get to the groping part?
Screw the TSA. Don't fly anywhere, drive when you can, maybe take a train.
Oh good lord... it's feels kind of odd that I'm in complete agreement with some folks I sometimes disagree with....
.... but don't worry folks... if they have to followup with a complimentary cavity search... they'll warm their surgical gloved hands first.... :eek:
Sort of makes the idea of high speed intercity trains just slightly more palatable, doesn't it?? ;)
http://www.optoutday.com/
Quote:
The goal of National Opt Out Day is to send a message to our lawmakers that we demand change. We have a right to privacy and buying a plane ticket should not mean that we're guilty until proven innocent. This day is needed because many people do not understand what they consent to when choosing to fly.
http://wewontfly.com/
Quote:
Backscatter X-ray uses ionizing radiation, a known cumulative health hazard, to produce images of passengers’ bodies
Just wait, as soon as we have a "man-caused disaster" on the rails, the TSA will be in every passenger train terminal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
The TSA's long-term screening solution must include profiling based on individual behaviors, not just pushing everyone through the latest technological fine-mesh sieve that is typically one step behind the capabilities of those who want to do us harm.
I'll be traveling to KC later this month using my own vehicle. Therefore I don't have to prepare for a scan or a pat-down - and I'll be saving a chunk of change in return for the extra time it will take me.
Putting it in perspective, what happens if they stop this and another incident happens? People will be having kittens because nobody took measures to prevent it. They have to do something, so what is acceptable?
Like I said above; I don't fly anymore. There isn't anywhere I need to get that fast, and I don't plan on going overseas any time soon. TSA is one factor, maybe the biggest, but others are cost, added fees, time wasted on crowds and delays, etc., etc., etc.
Agreed. And it's already happened if you remember the big derailment in Arizona a few years back. But wait until somebody sets something off as a train passes through a tunnel or over a river trestle somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeg
And your car as you drive like I prefer to? Wait until some moron pulls the pin inside the Big Dig in Boston or one of the tunnels under the Hudson River as they drive a car through. TSA will want to stop and search every vehicle and occupant before they enter.
That last video was clear. You are completely giving up any rights once you decide to fly. They can see you naked on screen or touch you anywhere they want and you cannot object or say anything they find intimidating. I don't like flying and we typically drive when we have to go somewhere, this just increases my resolution not to fly.
We spent five beautiful days sightseeing on the way to San Diego this month, and four days coming back. It was a relaxing, enjoyable trip. Flyover country is endlessly fascinating, a reason to drive even if passenger rights are not being given up in the name of safety.
Ben Franklin said it best: Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither.
Islandman, The first article below is a much more detailed article of the guy in your CNN video link. He is polite but is kicked out of the airport and then told that if he leaves the airport he will be fined. My wife saw the interview with some bigshot from TSA and was angry that CNN let the guy get off the hook without answering CNN's questions.
TSA Encounter at San Diego Airport Nov/13/10
Not all people who opt out are treated so rudely
My experience of the opt out of the naked body scanner. [[This person was simply patted down. This is probably the way these searches are supposed to be conducted.)
The top two videos on the left side of the below link are good. This woman's story is much like the San Diego airport story. The second video is is 17 seconds of TSA molesting a news reporter's 3 year old. The girl is screaming 'don't touch me' as she struggles. The reporter was sharp enough to photograph this incident if, perhaps, not much of a father.
TSA targets ‘smoking hot’ woman for naked scan; fondles children
Meanwhile, CAIR is fighting for the modesty rights of Muslim women.
Muslim women may escape TSA patdowns over ethnic sensitivity
some music for after you've opened the other links
See Me, Feel Me
This video, set to the soundtrack by The Who, portrays some of the imagery surrounding the controversial enhanced TSA security procedures.
I stopped flying after they confiscated my safety matches during a domestic flight. And the reason I opted for safety matches instead of butane lighters was out of respect for others' safety.
What bugs me is the attitude that 9-11 changed everything forever in such a way that we'll never return to true security where such measures were unnecessary. This defeatist attitude only guarantees that that loss-of-liberty slippery slope goes one way: down. It won't even allow for the possibility of climbing back up the slide.
I'm confident that with just a little bit more courage we could have that secure, sensible country back again.
All I can say is wow! :mad:
From Our Little Chatter Box Blog:
Quote:
TSA - Sexual Assault
I have an incident to share that occurred late Friday afternoon, November 12, 2010, around 5:15 in the Dayton International Airport.
I realize the publishing this publically on the internet puts me into a delicate situation, given that I am a high profile blogger and author. This is a difficult incident to share, but it needs to be said...Because I will not be a silent victim.
I will share the facts of the incident in as a matter of fact manner as I can.
I checked into my flight and had a boarding pass printed that included “plus infant.” My baby and I were flying from Dayton, OH, to San Antonio, TX, so I could run in the San Antonio Half Marathon. I was taking my baby along because he is still breastfeeding for part of the day.
I entered the security line, removed the special formula that I had with me for the baby, as well as my quart size baggie with my other liquids. I went through the x-ray machine and metal detector, carrying the baby, with no incident.
Because I was traveling with baby formula, I knew to expect that they would test it with the paper circles for explosives. The TSA agent took all of my belongings over to the table in the center of the explosive screening tables. She asked me, “Are you aware of the NEW policies for carrying liquids through security that were instated 4 years ago?” [[capitalized to show the emphasis that she placed on that word.)
I replied, “Yes, I fly with him every several weeks.”
She scanned the formula, then turned to me and said, “Remove your shoes and stand on that black mat for a patdown.”
I said, “OK, what do I do with the baby?”
“You cannot be holding him.” [[I am traveling alone.)
So I placed him into his stroller. She instructed me, “Spread your feet apart and hold your arms out to the side.” I obliged.
She patted my left arm, my right arm, my upper back and my lower back. She then said, “I need to reach in and feel along the inside of your waistband.”
She felt along my waistline, moved behind me, then proceeded to feel both of my buttocks. She reached from behind in the middle of my buttocks towards my vagina area.
She did not tell me that she was going to touch my buttocks, or reach forward to my vagina area.
She then moved in front of my and touched the top and underneath portions of both of my breasts.
She did not tell me that she was going to touch my breasts.
She then felt around my waist. She then moved to the bottoms of my legs.
She then felt my inner thighs and my vagina area, touching both of my labia.
She did not tell me that she was going to touch my vagina area or my labia.
She then told me that I could put my shoes on and I asked if I could pick up the baby, she replied Yes.
She then moved back to my belongings to finish scanning them with the paper discs for explosives. When she finished she said I was free to go.
I stood there holding my baby in shock. I did not move for almost a minute.
I stood there, an American citizen, a mom traveling with a baby with special needs formula, sexually assaulted by a government official. I began shaking and felt completely violated, abused and assaulted by the TSA agent. I shook for several hours, and woke up the next day shaking.
Here is why I was sexually assaulted. She never told me the new body search policy. She never told me that she was going to touch my private parts. She never told me when or where she was going to touch me. She did not inform me that a private screening was available. She did not inform me of my rights that were a part of these new enhanced patdown procedures.
When I booked my ticket, I was given no information that the TSA had changed their wand and unintrusive patdown procedures to “enhanced” patdown procedures that involved the touching of all parts of your body, including breasts and vagina on women and testicles and penis on men. I was not informed by any signs on the front side of security about the new procedures. I had not seen any media coverage about the issue, so I had no idea that this was a new government sanctioned policy.
Another important piece in this story, the Dayton airport does not have the new body scanners. I was not given any other search options. It was enhanced patdown, or nothing. [[And I would have opted for the body scanner, if I were going to be subject to a sexual assault.)
I asked to speak to a supervisor immediately. I had a very unpleasant conversation with him that lasted 20 minutes. I moved to the back of the security area, made a few phone calls, including to my lawyer. He did some quick research, and learned that I had indeed been sexually assaulted because she did not follow the SOP [[standard operating procedure) for the new search.
During our first conversation, the TSA acting manager of the shift told me that the TSA agent who sexually assaulted me was supposed to inform me about the new search procedure and tell me when and where she was going to touch me. He also apologized on behalf of himself and on behalf of the agent who sexually assaulted me. I was not allowed to speak to the agent who sexually assaulted me, nor did the acting manager provide me with her name. [[I did not have the presence of mind to look at her nameplate, as I was in shock.)
I also spoke with the Dayton police, the Dayton airport police, and left a message for the TSA manager for the Dayton airport. I intend to request the TSA to arrange for counseling services to be provided to me, so I can deal with the aftermath of the sexual assault that took place, caused by the specific touching actions and failure to inform me of the policies by the TSA agent.
I am speaking out against the TSA and share my sexual assault case to ensure that this does not happen to anyone else, anywhere.
I will not be a silent victim of sexual assault by a TSA agent. Total Sexual Assault.
I am calling for immediate change to this new enhanced body patdown search.
I am calling for the TSA agent who sexually assaulted me to be fired.
I am calling for you, a fellow American, to stand up against these new enhanced full body patdown search procedures of the TSA.
Please note: I do plan on flying back to Ohio on Monday, because it will take me too long to drive home from Texas. I do not however intend to fly again until this search policy of sexual molestation is revoked by the TSA.
I will leave you with this thought: “It is acceptable and encouraged that a TSA government official can do something to an American citizen that US military personnel cannot do to a member of the Taliban.”
*UPDATE: Thank you all for the links and information about where and with whom I can share this. I am continuing to take action. Please feel free to leave other helpful information you find. I will be turning on comment moderation for the remainder of the day. -Erin
I'm with you Jimaz! And everyone else on here!
“It is now acceptable and encouraged that a TSA government official can do something to an American citizen that US military personnel cannot do to a member of the Taliban.”
~Quote from a mother who was sexually assaulted in front of her special needs child; http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=7821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
I agree with the sentiments of the author but the writing style sounds a bit contrived to me. It sounds like that strained rhetoric used in phishing scams.
On the other hand, TSA seems to be single-handedly uninventing Orville and Wilbur Write's invention. I never thought that would have been possible until now. :[[
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitDad
fake-- does not pass the smell test
Also I was wondering if EL AL uses the same technique? Oh that's right they don't have to--they profile.
Way to go Libs--you protected the Arabs and now frank from the TSA has a thumb up your ass!!!!!
So ironic, it's almost sad.
There have been terrorists other than those who fill your stereotypic profile image. Profiling only makes the terrorists choose those who do not fit the profile to carry out their mission.
This story is dumb.
On the same topic, you know the terrorists won when all our airports have to change their security procedures because of the terrorists.
Oh well. If you aren't doing anything wrong than you wouldn't have a problem with people feeling your balls, or looking at them though a scanner.
Blarf, please tell me that my Sarcasm Alert System has malfunctioned, and that begging you to tell us that, with that final statement, you are being facetious is unnecessary and silly.
you know the terrorists won when all our airports have to change their security procedures because of the terrorists.
Doesn't anybody remember the whole "Fly me to Havana" craze of the 70s? Hell, the Cubanos were hijacking flights almost like they were scheduled flights to go there.
http://archive.easymodo.net/board/cg...2987044738.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Blarf
FOR REAL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazhekwe
El Al uses it why shouldn't we?
The great thing about this whole new "system" is that it will finally push the pansy's into okaying profiling.
In the last 10 years? The last 10 that lead to the creation of the TSA and these new techniques? has there been ANY terrorist activity on any flight that was not a young-ish male of middle eastern descent? Have any of the others that were foiled been anything other than islamic jihadists?Quote:
Originally Posted by gazhekwe
There is only one group of people trying to blow themselves up and take innocent civilians with them That does not mean certain groups should be rounded up and placed in interment camps. It does however seem incredibly silly to ignore reality and pretend "randomly" searching old women or digging around in my junk is going to stop an attack.
I am impressed that the same people on this website who denounced the Patriot act are not blindly following this policy set under the Obama administration to further deteriorate our limited freedoms.
If these searches were done, exactly as TSA employees are instructed to do them, by anyone other than the Government, it would constitute as sexual assault in any court.
I understand that flying is a choice, and participation of the security measures is also a choice, but....
Right now Terrorists in some cave somewhere are laughing at us as Americans are
fighting with one another over freedoms we are losing...
ps: That letter looks totally fake by the milf who got the feel-up.
Looks like email spam to me. Though it was kinda erotic in a naughty way ;)
Not to really get too political here, but what would the midterms have looked like had Obama repealed the entire patrioit act, closed gitmo, and disbanded the TSA? My guess is those running on a platform to impeach him for treason would have won even larger numbers than the republicans. The country is run by weak minded reactionary wack jobs....and we the people keep electing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papasito
A T&A sexual predator feels up a three year old. "Is this really what we've come down to in the name of security? TSA agents groping and terrorizing three-year-old girls?"
A youtube video of a tv reporters child being accosted by the tsa and teddy bear taken away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzEadUBYyLQ
Big Sis Sez : "The president and I both believe that Gen. Harding has the experience and perspective to make a real difference in carrying out the mission of this agency."
- I guess their goal is 'Feel First, Ask questions later' is the motto of the TSA.
- Just the opposite of some countries.
OPT OUT of cancer causing xray machines is right every time.
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by gdogslim
There are no age restrictions on the nude scans.
What parent would want thier 10 or 12-year-old son or daughter viewed nude by some random TSA employee? Disgusting. The Government should be ashamed.
wow what a great generalization....
"Way to go Libs--you protected the Arabs and now frank from the TSA has a thumb up your ass!!!!!"
Guess those blatant sweeping stereotypes are really helping the world know who really fair and balanced we are. Guess those christian arabs and muslims that fought for our country are feeling warm fuzzies right about now.
Just a few Terrorists who did not fit "profile:"
Abdulmatallab, the Nigerian man who tried to blow up the plane over Detroit,
Shoe bomber Richard Reid,
Collen LaRose, Jihad Jane, jihadist recruiter who agreed to help kill a man in Sweden.
The whole point about being "anti- profiling" is that it unfairly targets Muslims. So how is my comment a "blatant sweeping sterotype"?Quote:
Originally Posted by gibran
Let's put it another way--If it wasn't for your "feel good warm and fuzzy" stance would Frank from the TSA be feeling your junk?
I don't think so
Good to see that there is something that most can agree on. These new tactics are simply over the line.
Interesting that now, the TSA demands to either see your "junk" or to actually physically get a handful of your "junk." What a system! If this isn't stopped, what's next? They seem to be rolling out new and increasingly more intrusive procedures every year now.
Polls: Americans overwhelmingly endorse full body scanners. USA Today
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...scans/131415/1
There's an example of a TSA scan on the drudge report website.
Gross ! It really does leave little to the imagination.
How did they 'not' fit the profile? Abdulmatallab father reported him to authorities and his name was added to various watch lists. the failing was NOT adding him to the no fly list. He, like reid, should have NEVER BEEN ON THE FLIGHT TO BEGIN WITH.Quote:
Originally Posted by gazhekwe
Reid spent significant time in packistan and afgahnistan...even though he was a brit and had no connections there. and they barely let him on the plane because of his disheveled and erratic behavior. IIRC, he was delayed so long, he was forced to take a later flight. how is rooting around in my drawers going to stop a shoe bomb? How is letting someone fly who is clearly wacky and already under suspicion going to be solved by taking naked pictures?
LaRose was caught how? oh yeah, by monitoring radical social networks [[profiling) and old fashion investigation. not patting her junk at the airport.
This whole thing is all about the appearance of doing something worthwhile. its about as effective as having a "club" on your car. You might stop the opportunist, but the commited individual is going to overcome it. Point in fact, the new tactic of the copier bombs. Which were thwarted, not by junk screening but by good intel assets.
People at home answering landlines in the middle of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by gazhekwe
Not my demographic.
There will be social pressures to use the scanner if people "slow down the line for everyone else" by opting for the pat down when they "have nothing to hide."
If you have "nothing to hide" then why are you wearing clothes?
Ha ha, perfect!Quote:
Originally Posted by East Detroit
Nov 24th is national opt out day. There is a pretty funny article going around about wearing a Kilt and going "true Scotsman".Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith
How often does a true Scotsman shower? :) Give the TSA screeners/fondlers/voyeurs a nice heavy olfactory workout while they're doing the groping. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
I've heard said, "it's not the TSA screeners fault, don't take it out on them." They willingly chose to work there and feel people up, they chose to be on the front lines, so too f'in bad.
I don't know, some people might dig having their nuts felt up by a stranger. I'm sure some creeps will start flying for that very reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravine
Flashback! I trained as an EMT in the 80s. We were trained to do a full body search for injuries that included the genital area. To me, that seemed intrusive but what if something were hanging by a thread, I guess we would need to know that. Maybe they should hire EMTs for those intrusive patdowns. At least they should have some legitimacy, being trained to do it for medical reasons. Also, they should be conducted in a private area. And not on children. The risk that some idiot is going to put explosives up their three year old would have to be taken.
I guess some of us were asleep between Sept 11, 2001 and Jan.20, 2009. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln8740
.... and just how is profiling going to help if some terrorist [[smarter than you obviously) who has blond hair dye and blue eye contact lenses....
"Profiling"... the wonder cure that will fix all our problems.... :eek: .... NOT!!
Sorry, I will use the techniques of a country/airline that have been under constant attack for decades before I succumb to some "warm and fuzzy" notion of a liberal screaming "that's not fair!!!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Once again why are we not using the techniques of El AL?
Crickets...
Someone tried to put a bomb in their shoe, now we have to take our shoes off.
Someone tried to put a bomb in a printer cartridge, and now those are banned on domestic flights.
Next, someone will attempt to put a bomb in cell phone, lap top, ipod, or something similar, and they'll then be banned. Then someone will figure out a way to ingest explosives, and TSA will then ban people from flying unless they throw up first.
It seems that TSA is in a chasing its tail mode, or feeling up ours, trying to stay woefully behind. It's time for them to stop enacting procedures that look like they're doing something but aren't, and enact procedures that are actually designed to identify potential problems and people without violating the rights of the 99.9% who are not potential problems.
According to CAIR, the TSA’s new “enhanced pat down” policy should be limited to searching only around Muslim women’s head and neck if they are wearing a hijab and that Muslims objecting to the enhanced full-body scans have the right to request the pat-down procedure be done in a private place.
If the government even considers this request by the Muslims then this country is doomed forever. Why should Americans be subjected to pat downs and Muslim women only be patted down by the head and neck?
What a GD outrage!
At this time of year.... it can get awfully nippy up the Cairngorms... :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Anyone ever walk through one of these? So far I have twice in Chicago. What's the big deal? There's private partitions so no one else can see what's going on. The whole process took maybe 10-15 seconds. I didn't get a pat down, but the machines are likely the most effective part of the security check.
I can see where the body pat-down can be a problem, but technology will eventually need to replace this. Humans make mistakes, machines do not.
Good question, why do we wear excessive clothing?Quote:
Originally Posted by East Detroit
Just so folks know, there is one Congressman who is standing up for We the People.
It's called HR 6416: The American Traveler Dignity Act
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-N5adYM7Kw
Change ---
It should be the same for everyone or be repealed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buy American
But keep in mind that nude photos of children are illegal,
and just because the Government is doing it doesn't make it OK.
These photos are already leaking on the internet. People's pictures are not going to be kept private by the Government. The Government doesn't handle anything properly. Think your nudie photos are safe with them? The US Government is the same folks who lose millions of Americans' personal information on a now routine basis.
http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspi...icle84863.html
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/security...ords-39290951/
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/...l_governm.html
LOL Good luck with them handling your Health Care now, too :P
Hmmm, better yet; why don't we wear excessive clothing. That's it, I'm just going to wear my cup to the airport for now on! :confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by East Detroit
Over the course of its six-year life, the Transportation Security Administration has hired 110,000 employees, and 67,000 of them have quit or been fired. Frightening odds for the first-line of defense against terrorists
Department of Homeland Security lost employees at a rate that was more than twice the average for a Cabinet level agency and more than four times the federal average.
This is a government menancing organization overideing our rights.
It must be stopped.
In the fall of last year, a man in a dark suit walked into a UPS Store in Las Vegas, Nevada, flashed a badge, identified himself to the store manager as a Special Agent H. Charles Maurer of the Department of Homeland Security and demanded to see private files on an individual who keeps a postal box there. Familiar with state law, the store manager, M. E. Burks, told the man that he’d have to produce a subpoena first.
According to a federal grievance document viewed by this reporter, the federal agent told the store manager, “I don’t need a subpoena, I have this badge. Now, get me the files.” Burks refused to hand anything over and notified the customer in question instead. The customer, as it turned out, was a U.S. Federal Air Marshal named P. Jeffrey Black. Special Agent Maurer was his boss and was conducting an extrajudicial and unauthorized investigation on Black.
Black is an employee of the Transportation Security Administration [[TSA). Although he is not an official spokesman, owing to his Whistleblower status he is one of only a handful of TSA employees allowed to give interviews with news organizations on matters of public safety [[he testified for Congress in 2004). Black has been quoted in publications as diverse as Consumer Reports and the Federation of American Scientists.
Black believes that TSA’s volatile work environment, epitomized by Special Agent Maurer’s assertion that his badge makes him above the law, is directly linked to the agency’s increasing inability to keep air travelers safe. Since October 2007, USA Today, CNN, Consumer Reports and the Washington Post have run lengthy articles giving TSA failing marks. Black says the TSA is more determined to keep up appearances than it is to keep passengers safe.
And yet Obama will still refuse to show any of his records and the press will not report it.
How did the national opt-out day go?
Man arrested after ejaculating during TSA pat-down
http://www.deadseriousnews.com/?p=573
Kind of a funny article except for the arrest. My wife thought that gay males should have the option of being extensively groped by female TSA employees if there is a law against premature ejaculation in response to Obama's new government stimulation program . I thought the stimulation was to make the economy go up [[:confused:). There is so much to learn about living in a police state. We are, at least, reassured though that we are being protected by the thoroughness of our TSA employees. Maybe, in time, similar security could be installed at Christmas tree lighting ceremonies where shy would be terrorists are hanging out.
better link http://www.deadseriousnews.com/?p=573
Like the poor guy did it on purpose. He ought to counterclaim he was sexually molested.