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Does anyone remember the commuter trains that once ran from Pontiac to Franklin Street? It was called the "Shoppers specials" commuter train that had ran through the Dequindre Cut. The stops were also in Bloomfield, Birmingham, Royal Oak, Ferndale then downtown Detroit. It was discontinued in the 80s for it was too expensive to run. It would had been inexpensive to run these days. Would not had to spend extra money breaking up streets to make a light rail.
The railfan's best friend. I assume you mean the special fare the GTW offered for shoppers. I don't know when it started, but in the early 60's, it was 75 cents from Royal Oak to Brush Street round trip. You could catch Train 56 about 4pm, knock around Milwaukee Junction or Brush Street for about 45 minutes, then catch one of the commuters on the way back.
I think it was offered only on Saturdays, wasn't it?
Now see, that sounds like a good, positive, and even [[as far as I can tell) sensible idea. I wonder if there is any truly prohibitive reason for not considering that proposal.
There always seems to be available money-- or bond & millage proposals-- for new stuff, but when it comes to keeping, or re-invigorating, existing stuff, the first thing we hear is, "Who's gonna pay for it?"
And by that I do not mean holding onto stadiums which have been abandoned by sports teams and coming up with silly ideas about events to hold in them.
You're talking about something which could contribute to the very thing that so many folks harp on: trying to get the folks "out there" to spend some money "down here."
Of course, some folks want "down here" to include only "Detroit Proper," but that's just another way of keeping a wall up.
Here's a photo of the empty station that I took on June 5, 1982 and posted over on the Detroit Grand Prix thread:
Attachment 6358
[[full size)
The photo was taken using a telephoto lens from the Rivard St. crossing.
Here's a bonus photo of the downtown skyline I took on that same day:
Attachment 6359
[[full size)
Oh yeah, here's the link to the page with all of the other GP photos I took that day.
Sadly, that's all that remained at the time of the once large Brush Street Station complex. It included GTW freight and passenger stations, and was directly adjacent to the old Robin Hood grain elevator, which was where the Ren-Cen stands today. Still, four empty stub ended tracks with an unsheltered platform would be better than the non-existantness we have today.
Somewhere I've seen photos of the same spot where MikeG posted his picture from probablt 20-30 years before with GTW steamers lined up and departing the depot. Here are some photos from the Wayne State archive of the Brush Street station from the 20s:
http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/54911.jpg
http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/54912.jpg
http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/54913.jpg
http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/54914.jpg
Brush Street was the least impressive of Detroit's three passenger stations, and one of the smallest and oldest big-city depots nationwide to survive into the second half of the Twentieth Century. I believe the building dated to around 1866. But it worked well enough for the GTW's commuter trains and quite a few intercity trains, up through the end of intercity service on April 30, 1971. I have dim memories of it from 1970 trips from East Lansing, looking not too different from the Wayne archive photos except for the CN's late-1960's slapdash redecoration with orange, black, and blue paint. I never went back for another look before it was flattened for the Renaissance Center.
Between 1951 and 1957 my dad rode the [[steam-powered!) commuter trains from Birmingham to Detroit to his job at the J. L. Hudson Co. I suspect the nightly ritual of watching him arrive at the ornate Birmingham depot behind massive 6000-series 4-8-2's was what made me a foamer.
Is the River East parking structure build on the former railbed?
http://i50.tinypic.com/33yhs0h.gif
The line made a sweeping 90 degree curve just sputh of the end of the Dequindre Cut [[Jefferson Avenue Bridge), curving to parallel Franklin and Atwater in the block between the two. The tracks had at-grade crossings with Woodbridge, Franklin, Orleans, Riopelle, and finally Rivard before fanning out and entering the yard and platforms of Brush Street Station. So yes, the River East garage is built on the east end of the old yard rail-bed.
Check it out on Google aerial images....the curve alignment is still plainly visible.
http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRH...rlieWhipp].jpg
From Michiganrailroads.com:
The Southeastern Michigan Transportation Authority, also known as SEMTA, operated commuter passenger trains between Brush Street Station in Detroit and the City of Pontiac during the early 1980's. This photo shows a typical engine and consist which has just left Brush Street station and is now heading north towards Milwaukee Junction on an evening run. The Central Iron Foundry Company is in the background and appears to be closed. 1982 [Charlie Whipp photo]
This is a telephoto image taken from the Jefferson overpass looking toward the River. The crossing pictured as the tracks begin to turn is Franklin.
I remember taking a couple of "steam excursions" from Brush Street Depot in the late 1960's with my uncle and father. It was authentic...never having been remodeled save for paint and lighting. A classic mid size town depot which is what Detroit was when it was built.
So that picture must have been talken about here? That's "Globe Trading Co." in the background, a building that is about to be converted to riverview appartments. A lot of the trackbed is now converted to bicycle paths. Still looks strange to me that everyone uses bike helmets. In our little bicycle crazy country that's still a rarity, apart from racing bikes.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2cfy5w4.gif
From the Jefferson viaduct crossing looking north.
This was quite entertaining to me. Bicycles in Amsterdam, seen through the eyes of an American tourist. Great to see someone wonder about some phenomenon, I take for granted.
Great quote on the use of helmets.
LOL!Quote:
Now faced with this shocking disparity, I think any reasonable person must come to the conclusion that either the people in Netherlands do not value the safety of their children, or San Francisco bicyclists are clumsy pansies with soft heads and weak minds that must be protected from hurting themselves no matter how much it infringes on individual rights.
Kinda' seems like we've come full circle. SEMTA used those tracks in the '70s- early 80's. Seems so hard to get anything done around these parts, don't it? Hmmm..
Took that train back in the 60s as a Cub Scout.What an adventure.We also went on a Coast Guard Cutter that same day and froze.It must have been a Sat. in the fall.Wish the Pontiac train still went all the way to the river.Isn't Pontiac supposed to get a new transit center?
Attachment 6432
wsu/vmc
Attachment 6433
Detroitbob....
Do you remember when Dick Jensen's GTW 4-6-2 5632 wintered at Milwaukee Junction? I too rode behind the Pacific, CN's Northern [[probably 6218) and ex RDG 4-8-4 2100 out of Brush Street on Michigan Railroad Club excursions.
No, the depot wasn't much but again, except for the 4 inter-city trains, it didn't need to be much. It was basically a commuter station in my time. GTW really didn't push the inter-city passenger business until 1) owner Canadian National instituted the Red, White and Blue fare plan, and 2) New York Central's Detroit-Chicago service became so bad that the GTW, with their longer route, could be competetive with their Mohawk service.
I think the transit currently is the worst that it has ever been in Detroit, for the exception of the new transit center.
But that is about to change. It has to. I don't think we should use the Dequinder cut for commuter rail. The tracks to the northern burbs run through new center and eventually to the Michigan Central Station [[where nearly all tracks lead). Also, I don't think commuter rail is a substitute for light-rail or mass transit, but a compliment to it. Our transit system even as it is [[just buses and a downtown people mover) would be much more effective if we had commuter rail transit connecting the burbs/exurbs/satellite cities to the inner city.
Would heavy rail from the outer ring suburbs spur development downtown? It's a chicken/egg problem. "Back in the day", there was a demand for inner directed transit services [[at least on the GTW) because New Center [[GM), Highland Park [[Chrysler) and downtown were where the jobs were. Near as I can tell, there's no real demonstrated need for heavy rail into downtown because nobody would ride it.
Now a coordinated bus/light rail system might be a different kettle of fish.
GTW/CN is really the solution to our transit problems. We need a downtown depot. MCS is not convenient to downtown like Brush St was. From Brush St you have the line out Woodward to Pontiac, the line out Gratiot to Richmond, and a convenient connection to the old Michigan Central line out Stephenson to Utica.
It would take some track work to move the western trains from Ann Arbor [[Michigan Central) or Brighton [[Pere Marquette) into downtown.
You could run light rail on heavy rail routes, something like the old Budd RDC cars
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=212672
or the more modern DMUs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UTZC...eature=related
like we have on Florida Tri-Rail
MCS isn't too far from Downtown, and the most important reason why it should once again be the depot is that the tracks that lead to Canada pass through it, in addition to all other lines. Almost all lines lead to the MSC. There is no better location. Yes, Downtown would be more convenient, but a light rail could be built and would only be a couple stations from Downtown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermod
Uhh, I was trying to get regional rapid transit up and running quickly. I think the lines I mentioned could be up and running long before M-1 light rail gets beyond Grand Blvd.Quote:
Originally Posted by casscorridor
That would mean rebuilding the infrastructure that once already existed and linked the MCS to downtown via streetcar on the west side entrance. It could be done, but the 2 mile gap between downtown and the depot were part of the reason for its ultimate demise, or so one could gather.Quote:
Originally Posted by casscorridor
The line to Canada was built first which was the reason for the depot's location. In the post "Detroit's Last Depot" you can read all about that decision to build there etc etc etc.
These photos were posted at the popular Michigan railroading site www.railroadfan.com: From 12-1971 of Brush Street Station.
Click the images to see larger versions.
http://railroadfan.com/gallery/album..._scan09001.jpg
http://railroadfan.com/gallery/album...W%29_00109.jpg
And a couple from rrpicturearchives:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=825241
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1956461
I posted this last year on a Dequindre Cut thread.
My favorite Detroit poster is the Transformations in Modern Architecture poster from MOMA. It shows the trains coming in by Ren Cen.
These images were recently posted at railpictures.net from Brush Street Station, 8-13-1956:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d...1280245143.jpg
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d...1280199784.jpg
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d...1280201656.jpg
Steam was king on the GTW at Brush Street Station in Detroit. Switching duties were handled by a diesel yard switcher, but the power for commuter and long distance passenger trains was still steam. These photos courtesy this link: http://godfatherrails.com/photos/pbu...date=8/27/2010.
http://godfatherrails.com/images/sli...MI081356gf.jpg
GTW 5630, a K4a Pacific ready to go at Brush Street.
http://godfatherrails.com/images/sli...MI081356gf.jpg
5631 high balls Brush Street with train in tow. The large Robin Hood elevator is immediately west of the station.
http://godfatherrails.com/images/sli...MI081356gf.jpg
GTW 4-8-2 Mountain #6038 backs down through the terminal tracks toward its train at the platforms.
http://godfatherrails.com/images/sli...MI081356gf.jpg
6038 makes the joint with the consist and is ready to go.
http://godfatherrails.com/images/sli...MI081356gf.jpg
6038 departs Brush Street Station with 1956 skyline of Detroit looming behind. Note the crossing gate "tower" and flagman protecting the move.
http://godfatherrails.com/images/sli...MI081356gf.jpg
Closeup of the crossing switch "tower" and a real excited railfan. I guess if I was watching some of the last steam to exist and it was right here in Detroit I might look like this guy too!
http://godfatherrails.com/images/sli...MI081356gf.jpg
K4a #5630 with short commuter train right along Atwater Street beside a variety of Railway Express Agency carts and equipment.
http://godfatherrails.com/images/sli...MI081356gf.jpg
5630 leads its train through the switches out of Brush St. Station.
http://godfatherrails.com/images/sli...MI081356gf.jpg
Pacific K4a #5629 brings an inbound train of mail & express with a few coaches up to the Brush Street platforms.
There is an article in the January 2019 edition of the magazine, Railfan & Railroad, about the old SEMTA commuter rail service from Pontiac to Detroit. It gives a couple real nice photos as well as some history on the service.
http://railfan.com/semta-motor-city-commuter/
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterblaster
Cool post. I'm probably one of the few posters here that actually remember the train station Downtown and the commuters.
I'm surprised to learn that there was stops at Ferndale AND Pleasant Ridge. You would think that they would've just closed PR instead of wanting to close both.
I only remember the stairs at 12 Mile and the train tracks in Royal Oak. There's a house there that I was jealous at because they had stairs leading up to the tracks in their backyard!
I believe there were two stops in RO: 11 Mile and 12 Mile. Did not know there was a PR station.
I think maybe, at some point, there was something between the Bham and Bloomfield stations. Like something around Big Beaver or so?
Yes, there was the downtown RO station and the 12 Mile stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
I do believe there was a Charing Cross stop AND a Long Lake and Kensington stop, which I think the latter was the "Bloomfield" station.
Then again I'm not sure if they were all operational over the same period of time.
I remember this was the train that used to offer rides to & from the Freedom Festival Fireworks back in the late 70s-early 80s. We took it on that run a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by masterblaster
If I recall there was a train that came into Detroit late morning. In the afternoon the commuter trains were outbound about every 30 minutes. The waiting shed at Pleasant Ridge was a crude three sided shed, would keep you dry. There was a yard in Ferndale and if you had to leave the yard you had to time your departure so you would not interfere with any of the outbound commuter trains. There were DSR buses at the Milw. Jct. station to convey commuters to the New Center area.