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George Romney's former house in Palmer Woods is on the cities demolition list. I think this is ridiculous, so many burnt out houses in the city and they want this nice 5,500 square-foot house taken down.
Check out the article for pictures.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...emolition-list
That has to be a typo. There is no way that house was worth that much back then. I remember driving by that home back in 2000 and it looked rough then. I wonder just how much water damage has been done.Quote:
In 2001, the house sold for $645,000
It's a symbol for Mitt, I'm sure he wants it torn down more than anybody, well before the next election cycle.
This house was purchased by GARNER GUYTON,PATRICIA K for $645,000 on August 21, 2001 according to the public records.
How is it a symbol for Mitt Romney? His family moved out of that house 57 years ago, when Mitt was only 6 years old. Nobody with any common sense at all would connect what happened to that house to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldredfordette
I think you're reaching extraordinarily far on that one.
From The Detroit News article:
"...In 2001, the house sold for $645,000. But it changed owners several times since and sold for $150,000 in 2007. A tattered blue tarp now hangs on the 5,500 square-foot house, whose front windows are boarded with plywood. A condemnation sign is tacked to the front door...."
Who would have believed that a home like this, in a wealthy neighborhood of a major American city, would end up this way, if this item was printed in 1960?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
I wouldn't doubt if it was a part of a mortgage related scam. Mortgage the house on an inflated appraisal, let it go back to the lender and split the "profit" with the seller, appraiser, and others involved.
I wonder how much damage this hosue really has. A tarp over part of the roof is a bad sign since water can do so much damage. I think it's right next to the Bishop's mansion if I am not mistaken.
Kinda shows that Money talks ....... people in the neighborhood wanted it gone, and since Im sure they pay ALOT of taxes, they got it pushed to the front.....It is a real shame tho. I agree it was probably real estate fraud and an inflated mtg the buyer planned to skip out on. Seen alot of what appears to be that [[scam) in looking thru records.....really sad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnny5
It doesn't look like a mortgage scam, the lady who paid $645,000 struggled with the mortgage for almost 3 years before the house went through foreclosure. Typically with mortgage fraud you see the property go through foreclosure quicker. Inflated appraisal? I don't think so- back in 2001 when the mortgage was originated that was what houses were going for in Palmer woods.
Let's be honest. If you see the houses surrounding this property, you might understand why they are complaining about this ongoing rebuild project.
Seeing that link the blue tarp is still more or less in place, a far cry from the current situation.
Im not saying they shouldnt complain, Im just saying how much more effective it was. I also think Its wise to include areas like Sherwood forest to maintain the integrity of the neighborhood, on the other hand Im sure it is costing what it would remove 10 war bungalows out of brightmoorQuote:
Originally Posted by Whitehouse
I hate to see Sherwood Forest slowly chipped away at.
Brandon, I agree , sounds like they tried. A home i owned once later became Part of a scam, It went into foreclosure in less than a year, so you know they never paid anything.....
Demolition of this home, and the many others coming to the city made a Wall Street Journal article.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...mostcommentart
Here is a quote from that WSJ article. below. So, wat is to be done with all that empty space? That is the question...
With regards to the house...it really doesn't make economic sense to spend all that money on it, at least that is what one PW resident mentioned in the article. If the William Fisher mansion lot can remain empty for 15 years, so can this lot.Quote:
When it's all over, said Karla Henderson, director of the Detroit Building Department, "There's going to be a lot of empty space."
I dorve by that house this afternoon. There is no roof on the house, all of the slate has been removed [[stolen, scrapped?). The blue tarps are just hanging off of the side of the house. The interior damage is extensive. It is a complete wreck.
All of the surrounding houses are well-kept and beautiful. This piece of crap needs to be removed. It is a disgrace to the neighborhood.
Palmer Woods is one of the few stable neighborhoods left in Detroit. It cannot be allowed to disintegrate the way much of the rest of the city has.
Yep, that was a common "mortgage" hustle. It was all about the commission when that thing was at full swing. Ugly indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnny5
Yeah, that sounds about right. The replacement of the slate roof would have been cost prohibitive once the rest of the house went down hill from no roof at all. Then add the quotient of the "scrappers"... it's over. It must be torn down. Very, very sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC48080
A house this big in this bad of shape must come down sadly. There was a huge four-family quad brick house on the block I live in near WSU that had a tarp over it for 3 years. The so called "owners" just kept jacking around, while the rain came in along with the scrappers initially.
After a point the thing rotted down thru to the basement and even the "scrappers" did not want to deal with if for fear of it caving in as the removed the last batch of bricks from the foundation. As the tarp finally shredded, peaces of it it blew down the street onto other roofs!
It was really ugly, and was finally torn down after many calls and complaints...Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
The last line says it all. "Who wants to spend $1 million on a house so it will be worth $400,000?" If someone disagrees with that assessment, get out your check book and sign a rehab agreement with the city. The city rehab agreements say you must make significant progress in six months or you forfeit the property and money paid for it. Otherwise, get out of the way of the people who are doing their jobs.
The plan is to rehab 3000 properties in the first year and there are 100,000 abandoned properties. Thats 33 years worth! More than enough opportunity for rehab and preservation of tens of thousands not yet on the city's list. Its an overwhelming task that has to start somewhere and this is the best plan I've heard. We can't allow a system where every building the city tries to take down has to be a major battle. 50 years experience has shown that doesn't work. I applaud the Mayor's efforts and believe we should all do everything we can to support it.
The mortgage hustles can also be greatly reduced with some effort from the county and feds.
First, the feds need to prosecute agreat deal more of them. Prosecuting mortgage scams is very expensive so they rarely get prosecuted at the local level. Last I heard, the state wouldn't prosecute them and Wayne County was the only county that has even considered prosecuting them. Victims have said that DPD won't even take a complaint because they feel its a civil matter. A great many of these are FHA loans. If the government wants to be in the lending business, let them protect their loans.
Second, there's very little repercussions for flipping fraudulent or misrepresented loans to other lenders. So, most of the fraud doesn't get reported because its better for the lender to hide it. Why? Because hiding it allows them to bury it in a bundle of loans they sell to another lender or better yet, to the public through mortgage mutual funds known as REITs. Even if they can't sell it, as long as they don't foreclose on it, they can still claim the asset is worth the value of the loan rather than the value of the property. Loans can sit in this status for decades. These are many of your "abandoned" homes.
The first part could be addressed by a federal law saying that if you sell a mortgage you've held for less than a year and it goes into default within a year of selling it, you are liable for a portion of the loss. I know the objection, but there's no benefit to society or the integrity of the lending process in encouraging multiple rapid loan flips. The second part could be addressed with a SEC rule that if there's been no payment made on a loan for six months, the asset must be valued at FMV.
Finally, Wayne County needs to get in line with the rest of the country and record their deeds in a timely manner. In Oakland County, a deed will appear in the records a week to three weeks after its filed. In Wayne County, its six months to a year. Thats the opening that makes Detroit so prone to mortgage fraud. If a property has been sold multiple times in the last year and the value keeps rising, its a flag of potential fraud. Long recording times make it very difficult for loan officers, loan purchasers, and out-of-town heirs to find issues before it too late.
Anyone know the history of this home prior to the Romney chapter? Architect? year built?
It was built in 1918. Here are some pictures from today as well as picture of the houses next to it.
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w...202010/144.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w...202010/145.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w...202010/146.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w...202010/147.jpg
Although I hate tearing anything down, I think this house needs to go!
It's extraordinary that a non-fraudulent borrower would actually purchase that home for $645K and then try to make the payments. Palmer Woods is an expensive neighborhood for Detroit, but that price, even in the go-go days, would be one of the top 10 or 20 sales prices -- ever in that neighborhood. Any legitimate sale that has ever occurred in Palmer Woods for $600K or more has been for something turn-key. There's no way that place was close to turn-key, even way back in 2001-02.Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon48202
Questions: Other than the lag time for the foreclosure after the $645K sale, is there any other evidence that payments [[which had to be in the $4000/mo. range) were actually made? Was the $645K sale a flip? A flip from, say, something like a $200K sale six months previously. If so, the flipper/mortgage fraud guy could throw off law enforcement by making 18 months of payments, and then paying for $25K in half-ass initial renovations, and then still walk away with $250K - $300K.
It's hard to believe that the $645K wasn't fraud. If it wasn't fraud, both the lender and the borrower were pretty dumb, to put it charitably.
To me, there is an additional benefit to demolition here besides getting rid of a non-viable home. Once the demolition has been complete, there will be an empty lot available to someone who wishes to build a house. The city should sell the lot to someone who is willing to build at least a medium-sized house on the property. Throughout Palmer Woods, there are already houses that do not fit the predominant architectural style, so I think that having a more modern house would be okay. In the end, it will result in a taxable, occupied property, so I think everyone would benefit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cman710
IF someone is willing to build there. Id rather see the lot split between the two neighbors,,,,thats just me
Yes, I agree. Splitting the lots would also be a good option, especially if there is no interest in building there. What spurred my thought regarding someone rebuilding there is that I saw a pretty sizeable house being built on Oakman recently, and I figure if someone is willing to invest there, there could also be someone willing to invest in one of the city's nicest residential neighborhoods.
It's sad it has to go but understandable. The place is more than eyesore for those neighbors.
DetroitZack, great ppics. The crescent-shaped Tudor to the south of the Romney home was designed by Richard Marr. It was long neglected before being purchased recently. The Palmer Woods Homeowner's Association did a great write-up about that home in one of their newsletters, which can be found on the PW site. Marr designed a good number of homes in Palmer Woods as well as Sherwood Forest. Bloodgood Tuttle did a few in Palmer Woods as well. I must say that the Romney home looks more like something out of Indian Village rather than in PW.
I live down the street from this house and I have watched the rise and fall of it. It used to be what we thought was an eyesore when all the windows had iron bars over them and the property was not kept up. Then some people bought it and fixed it up and it looked nice for a few years but as has been discussed before it went into foreclosure. One day my mother and I were out walking our dogs and I saw the new buyer out in front signing papers to buy the house. I said to my mom that there was no way these people could afford the house. You could just tell by looking at them and the car that they were driving that they simply did not have the money unless they really wanted to look like they were well below their means. Soon after they bought the house they began to do massive renovations, they tore the old roof off, and started putting on additions. This it turns out was all a scam, they had according to neighborhood sources gotten about 400,000 in loans to do the renovations. They put about 50,000 into it and then ran with the rest of the money. The state that it is in right now is not because of people coming and stealing a slate roof, which I don't recall it ever having to begin with, or stealing anything else. They left that house with no roof and totally open to the elements. This was just before the whole "bubble" popped and we fought with the bank to foreclose on the house so that someone could buy it and rehab it. But the bank which was Main Street Bank LLC, refused to do so because if they foreclosed they would get stuck with the back taxes on it. So because the bank chose to do nothing the house stood there and decayed further. At one point a tree fell in the yard and it was finally dealt with by a neighbor who simply had enough of looking at it. I know that many people out there look at this story and think that a bunch of rich folks got together and used their influence to get the city to tear down the house and use its resources on something they think should be used somewhere else. Let me just say that our influence didn't mean squat, we fought for years to get the county to seize that house. Then after they seized it we had to fight and fight to get them to agree to finally take it down. We still don't know when it will actually be demolished and knowing how local government works it will probably be a while. I want to say that yes this house is an eyesore, yes it has a little historical significance but not much, but remember that their are children living right next door and all around in close proximity to that house. Think of all the vermin that infest vacant open homes like that and what they could do to little kids. I know that is the case with many of the vacant homes in the area and I think they should be torn down too. Just remember that it is not necessarily the influence of the people that get things done, it is also just as much how willing you are to fight the government to take action and deal with it. If you aren't willing to call officials on a daily basis and ask what are they going to do about a vacant property then don't attack others who did fight and who finally managed to succeed against the miles and miles of red tape.
Thanks forthe info. I was a bit less sympathetic to the neighbors that watched the roof stolen, but the added info makes more sense as to how that happened. I still think the house got some priority due to the area and tax base, but also I think that was appropriate. Being its history puts it under the magnifying glass too, its good to remove the historical embarrasment. Im sure had this house not been attached to romney it would still be sitting without a demolition plan. Anyway, great news for palmer woods.
Hi ragnarok1981,
Thanks for giving us a little context. I hope the house is quickly torn down.
Thank you for sharing this... I think the same couple ran that scam over in the midtown/ new center area. Buying up big homes, blue prints in their hands, then they'd go get people from the homeless shelter and have them walking on the roofs initially doing a half-done roof replacement, which of course failed what little was actually done, then up with the blue tarp. Then the tarps rip and tear and blow around the area... Someone else with a few nails and hammers, the the years went on and nothing further was done.... and the fight was on [[for years) to get these once gallant house torn down.
In the mean time decent neighbors are forced to mow lawns and watch rats and raccoons run in and out. These scammers need to spend some time in jail, that bought these homes with no true intent on rehab.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok1981
Yeah, about 5 years ago there were all these "investment" scams related to rehabbing houses. Jerks they were.
I recall some crank approached me at a JOB FAIR [[of all places - they did not have a booth, just trolling the place with cards about unlimited income potential...) with the scam of investing in home to tear off some of the payment. They did not put it that way but I knew what was up. And I was like NO THANK YOU!Quote:
Originally Posted by mjs
The Romney family had nothing to do with getting the house torn down. The house was slated for demolition before any of those stories broke about the Romneys living there. It was something a lot of palmer woods residents knew about, but I dont think it was common knowledge at all outside of the local area. If people want to think that it is getting torn down because of PW residents influence or money, or because the Romneys had something to do with it, then that is their own crazy theory. Believe me I was one of the people who had to work on getting that place torn down, I know how it happened and what it took to get it slated for demo. For a long time it looked like we would never get rid of it, but our persistence paid off in the end and that is what I recomend to anyone in a similar situation. Just keep going after the people in power until they deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by n7hn
The person who bought the house for 645,000 in 2001 is not the person who is responsible for its current state. To go and post information about them is unfair and uncalled for. Please use a little common sense here and dont go posting info like that when you dont know that the person is actually responsible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarok1981
i disagree, that gross overpayment was most likely the first step in the homes demise, of all the transfers on the property, as discussed, this one is ripe for the possibility of some type of mortgage fraud, once the property piled up that much mortgage debt, and banks wanting to get back as much as possible, it was a downward spiral after that...
besides, the information posted was easily available just by typing the name in google, nothing private was included....
Goose unless you live in the neighborhood and have first hand knowledge of went on then dont make assumptions like that. The person who was named here in this thread actually improved that home. But like so many others in the country and world they got in over their head and they lost the home. Should they have known better and not ended up in that situation? Obviously the answer is yes, but the real crook is the guy who took out the enormous home improvement loan and ran off with a majority of the money. A lot of great homes have fallen into disrepair because people got greedy and did not think about the future. In this case it was not someone not thinking about the future, here the guy knew he was screwing over the house and ran off with the money. Afterall why on earth would a guy with only a wife and one kid need to put on additions to a home like that? In the end the home could have been saved if Main Street bank had done the right thing and listened to the neighbors who were begging them to do something. But the bank was just as bad as the guy who caused the damage. Personally I think both the former home owner who caused the damage and whatever bank officials let the damage continue should have to come in and dismantle that home by hand, brick by brick.
alot of this is banks faults too...... they fueled the frenzy. Dont tell me they didnt smell trouble brewing as they threw loans out .... Ive never seen a time easier to get home loans. They also have not handled the repo's well nor have they made an appropriate response to keep people in those homes.
Ragnarok, the chronology of the house is still unclear from the posts on this thread. Are you saying that after the $645K purchase in 2001 and subsequent foreclosure, another person purchased the home out of foreclosure and then obtained in excess of $400K in loans secured by the home?
$645K in 2001 would have been at least 200% of the legitimate market value for that home in unrestored condition. Amazing that someone would make such a purchase, and even more amazing that a bank would make the loan without being the victim of misrepresentations on the appraisal. If the seller was legit, they sure hit the jackpot.
And then you're saying that after the foreclosure, another lender loans in excess of $400K to somebody else? Makes no sense at all. Sounds like two consecutive fraudulent deals on the same house.
Banks dont just throw money at people. They evaluate and accept the risks as well when they make the loans. Now they deny help using the "new standards" that went out the window when they made the commitment to fund loans they needed to keep their numbers up. Now people are held to standards that the banks should have used in the first place. The New standards are used against those seeking help. Personally by the new standards people wouldnt qualify in the first place, end of story. People would have been in homes or not.
If i were to lend $20 to a crackhead, then shame on me for not knowing better. The market made people panic [[Like crack) that they HAD TO buy NOW or never be a homeowner, Mtg providers, agents and the news fed this to the max, and it simply wasnt true. The banks allowed it, went along, helped it feed on itself , funded it, and now wanna have some structure.
Personally My bank made my home loan [[I borrowed $70,000 less than approved for) to me and then called me over extended for a car loan when I only owed them money. So THEY overextended me......right? They didnt think Id need a car in the next 30 years? They dont see they wanted to give me MORE [[and pressed for me to spend more) just a moment ago? Im not saying that people shouldnt be held accountable, but dont train me one way , then use your own standard against me later claiming innocence.....Actually that same car loan would have gotten me a better , more secure job as Id been able to commute further, but the job didnt tolerate car trouble excuses....
Swingline that is what I am saying. I really cannot say as to if there was any kind of fraud in 2001. I think that was a case of someone buying a home and they got in over their head due to some unforseen event. At that time homes in the neighborhood were regularly going for prices of 645,000, maybe a little less on some but that is a good size house and when home prices were good it could demand a price like that. But it was not that person who caused the house to be in the state that it is in now. They left the home in relatively good condition. It is the last person who owned it that tore off the roof, took out the foundation, put on unfinished additions, removed windows, and gutted the home. I know this is just the internet and you dont have to believe anything I say, but as a neighbor from down the street from this home I am well aware of the history of what has taken place. This home is a prime example of everything that went wrong with the realestate boom and bust. Banks gave out lots of crappy loans and in this case I think that is what happened. Then people committed mortgage fraud and ran off with the money. There is a home only a block away from the Romney house where the home was sold over and over again for several years and the price just kept going up and up, and this house was a dump to begin with and was not built well in the 1990's. In the end I think it was over 700,000 and even the neighbors would look at it and not understand how anyone could pay that much. It was because of mortgage fraud. I have seen it happen to a lot of homes in the area, people were getting loans that they could not possibly afford and then ditched the house when the payments ballooned. I would personally love to see the people on both sides of this fraud to be convicted of fraud.
Former Romney house is gone without, as one neighbor said, without a whimper as of this Tuesday morning.
The story is on the web sites locally, and the sites of the Boston Herald and Chicago tribune.
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...neys_chil.html
I don't understand why the news media is making such a story of this demolition. Yeah, the Romney's last owned this house, NEARLY 60 YEARS AGO. Mitt Romney hasn't lived in Michigan in ages. What is the relevance of this slow news day story?
Not exactly newsworthy 'current events' for Detroit, is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie5275
Maybe in Massachussets- Former Governor's birthplace in Detroit abandoned, neglected, demolished... Yawn
http://www.freep.com/article/2010060...ood-home-razed
Anyone notice that it was razed by the same firm that flattened Tiger Stadium?
I don't see this as such a story.......just a small corner blurb as filler material.
It is a shame to lose houses in Palmer Woods.....one might think of all places, it could be one small corner of the city immune to the plague that infests the entire city.
Are you sure it was those same idiots that razed Tiger Stadium?Quote:
Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit
All the trucks I have seen from Farrow lately have pictures of them doing the demolition at Tiger Stadium, and make it look like they are proud of what they did.
Those people make me sick
If Mitt Romney somehow is elected president, it would have been nice for Detroit to say "He spent his early childhood here, and this is where he lived." It could have been a minor historical site in a one of the city's marque neighborhoods. The neighborhood literature could boast, "the president spent his early formative years in this neighbrhood, and it still stands at such and such address", as opposed "to his house once stood here, but like so much of the city's structures, it was torn down because of neglect and abuse".
I heard from a real estate agent that the city buys houses. The city could have bought this house, put in new roof on [[it would have only cost $10,000-$12,000), and mowed the lawn every two weeks.
The house Gerald Ford was born in burnt down early 70's, a few years before he became VP/President. A local [[Omaha) businessman quickly bought that lot in Omaha,NE when Ford became prez. The lot was developed into a memorial and gardens, then donated back to the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by masterblaster
I used to get puzzled looks from Nebraska friends/relatives when I'd tell them it was actually the Leslie King birthplace.
bump.........
Anybody but Romney, he talks out of both sides of his mouth. He looks like a shyster as well.
Has anything been built on this property? Who owns the property?
If Willard wanted to claim a connection to Detroit, he could have spent a teeny tiny fraction of a fraction of his $250,000,000 and saved that home.
It's probably a good thing the house is gone now. As the national media descends on Michigan can you imagine all the satellite trucks with their reporters standing on the front lawn with pieces of blue tarps swaying in the wind proclaiming "Here it is people, the one time home of a father and son who both had/have presidential ambitions in the very best neighborhood in Detroit and even this house is an abandoned dump!"
Qualifies as an outright tragedy on so many levels.:[[
I'm actually surprised it hasn't made it into the national media or a Santorum ad.
The house right next door, to the left of the old Romney house sold not too long ago as a foreclosure. I had gone with a friend to look at it. It also had sold for a very high price at one point. Maybe around $600k? I can't remember exactly. Someone had started a ton of interior renovations and it was left in a unfinished state when it was foreclosed on. It is quite a cool house, over 7000 sq ft. But, the taxes are just out of this world.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast
If Mitt truly cared about his hometown, and home state, he should have bought his childhood home when it was on the market. Judging his wealth, hell, he could have single-handeadly bought the whole damn neighborhood!
As a child of Northeast Detroit, if I had consumed half the wealth that Mitten's has, I would have preserved my whole block on Novara street...
How many of DYer's wish they could buy & preserve there childhood homes with Mitten's wealth?
If I had the $ to buy my second home in Detroit I would be a happy man. I loved that home. Actually I could afford to buy it if I wanted, but I wouldn't have the $ to add another 5-10 feet onto the back of it. I always remember my mom [[R.I.P.) saying she hatted how small the kitchen was.
I met the current owner of 1884 Balmoral awhile back he is very nice and doing a nice job to restore the home, with the bare ceiling in the living room among other problems this home was not for the novice restorer!Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitgayhistoryguy
oh cool, yeah I love that house but it did need quite a bit of work. On the plus side, it did have a newer roof.