Anyone see this?
http://detnews.com/article/20100420/...obs-to-Detroit
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Anyone see this?
http://detnews.com/article/20100420/...obs-to-Detroit
This is great news. Hopefully more companies follow them there. This is has got to be a possible destination for the left over Quicken employees they won't be able to sardine into the Compuware Building. There has been work going on at 1001 for a while now. I heard a few months back that they were renovating a few floors at a time, as needed, so we finally see that there was a purpose for it. This building has an absolutely beautiful elevator lobby, with marble and the works, really in very nice shape too, only the office space was really in need of modernization.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggybear
I could never see 1001 Woodward being luxury condos. This is good news. I like that company's plan to hire in economically stressed areas, Detroit being the poster child for such.
Well after seeing some of the condo projects that have fallen apart or not gotten off the ground, I don't think that is a problem now... 1001, Griswold, Broderick, Cadillac Centre, Book Tower...Quote:
Originally Posted by dtowncitylover
I found it interesting that he felt it necessary to say he doesn't consider Compuware a competitor. I wonder what Compuware thinks about this. Might they work together on some projects?
GalaxE.Solutions
Well, they aren't a direct competitor... I'm sure they certainly compete for some of the same types of business. But in the big picture, we have recognizable tech based companies locating downtown, with Quicken to follow and leasing at 1001 Woodward expected by quite a few people to take off now, things are looking about as rosy as we have seen them recently downtown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
Skipper's?
Sounds like it's all but a done deal and I'm glad to hear it. With the proper ownership/management, there's no reason 1001 can't be one of the better performing buildings downtown.
Not sure how they plan on squeezing 500 people into 28,000 square feet unless it's a call center. I suppose they could just be starting with the two floors and and have options to expand over the 5 years.
Good news for Detroit IMO.
Is this just a call center? Are we bringing knowledge based jobs to the city or call center jobs?Quote:
Originally Posted by WALD0123
According to the article it doesn't seem like it is just call center jobs... but I guess we will see.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotownSpartan
With the average salary being $63,000 a year, there's no way in hell it's a call center. Article says jobs will be in software development.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotownSpartan
with an average salary of $60,000+ [[from the article) I doubt it's a call center.
Yes but if you have one "manager" making 200,000 and 4 "workers" each making 25,000/per year, your average salary is 75k per year, even though 80% of the workers are making 25k a year [[this is just an example, I have no idea how this company actually functions but I would be interested in seeing the median salary figure). Furthermore, this company operates out of Bangalore, India [[among other locations) and has said in the past that it's looking for "low cost" employment centers. Detroit may be cheaper than other areas but doing business in the city is still expensive as a result of taxes, bureaucracy, etc -- even Dave Bing has acknolwedged as much in his State of the City speech. I'm also suspicious of the quote regarding wanting to help train distressed workers, as this is a for profit business, I wonder where the profit is in training distressed workers. If this were a non-profit, I'd be less suspicious of that quote. Finally, one of the interviewees states that a college degree isn't necessary for software development positions, again, are these knowledge based jobs or something else [[not that one needs a college degree to hold a knowledge based job)?Quote:
Originally Posted by detmsp
I don't want to be too pessimistic on this whole thing, I've just been around long enough in Detroit/Michigan to see how over touted these MEGA/DEGC releases are when it comes to inflating job numbers and puffing up projects. I wish GalaXe nothing but the best.
Just because they operate out of Bangalore, doesn't mean they're any less of a company. India is high-tech heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotownSpartan
Totally agree but I worry that they see Detroit as a Bangalore of America in terms of shifting cheaper/commoditized work here and training lower skill workers and then paying them a low wage. I hope this isn't the case; we have the ability and resources here to attract the very best jobs and talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by dtowncitylover
"Seemingly" good news. But i'd be willing to bet anyone in five years time there will not be 500 workers downtown working with this company. These job projections NEVER come to fruition.
There was an article in the Detroit News or Crain's back in the 90's about that very thing. That only approximately 40% of estimated jobs ever materialize when these announcements are made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind field
Still, even if this company only brings 100-200 jobs here that's good news. Particularly considering they are technology related jobs, not automotive jobs - which are the types of jobs Michigan is going to need to attract to diversify the economy here.
IT folks work differently than normal people. They do a significant amount of telecommuting and often work at odd hours. Technically they might have 500 people working there, but there could be only 200 permanent work stations that they share. At first glance $63k a year would be a boon to the local economy through additional taxes, and purchases but since many of these worker will not be working on site much of that income tax would be lost and retail sales as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by esp1986
Damn, so the MEGA Board is going to lower GalaXe's by $4.6 million and they will bring in 500 jobs. So maybe they ought to lower everyone's taxes and create even more jobs. Just sayin'.
I'm not so worried about that... I mean if they are shitty jobs with shitty pay, then either a) people won't take them because they can make more elsewhere and the company will fold or raise wages... or b) people will take the jobs because they have no other option, so thank god that shitty job is there because it's far better than no jobQuote:
Originally Posted by MotownSpartan
I guess there can also be positives for companies of the same industry to locate near each other even if they are competitors, to share resources that are numerous, share resources and infrastrucutre that are industry specific and hard or expensive to duplicate, and help supply and demand from single suppliers. In other words, a group of like companies could all benefit from locating in the same geographic region by all renting the same infrastructure or buy from the same supllier at different times, instead of each building there own infrastructure, or each competing company buying from seperate suppliers).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
What on Earth is wrong with a call center job? Are fully employed doctors, engineers, and corporate CEOs going to willingly jump to a call center job? No. People who make less than a call center pays [[i.e., the unemployed/ underemployed) will take call center jobs. It is absurdly arrogant for anyone who cares about a city with catastrophic unemployment [[several generations of some families have not worked), and literally thousands of empty buildings to look down on any job.
Here in New York, last year a plan was killed to convert an old armory into a shopping center, largely because the developer wouldn't commit to paying everyone who worked there $10/hr. So, in that vacant eyesore in the South Bronx- with neighborhood unemployment over 40%- will remain vacant in the name of protecting people who make no money whatsoever from making $8/hr.
Note to everyone who favors "living wage" laws and other such nonsense, YOU NEED A BOTTOM RUNG ON A LADDER IN ORDER TO CLIMB IT. Let's not look down on jobs!
Hear, hear, I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
Great news for downtown! I wonder how occupied 1001 Woodward currently is.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with call center jobs. The question is, with limited public resources, do we choose to use millions of dollars of tax abatements attracting call center jobs or should we focus our limited resources on attracting jobs that provide a true living/middle class wage to our area? We are essentially foregoing millions of dollars in tax revenue to bring this company in, would it be better to use this money to bring in the types of companies that will reverse the brain drain and change the perception/workforce in this area in a positive way? Maybe GalaxE will do this, I don't know, I am just concerned about using these large tax breaks, especially when it's unclear exactly what types of companies are getting these breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
edit: What is especially troublesome is that companies providing good paying jobs that attract the types of people who will change perceptions of our region may be paying full tax rates and essentially subsidizing less deserving companies who are only in this region for the handouts they get from MEGA, DEGC, etc.
It's empty or pretty close to empty.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitZack
At this point we're giving tax abatements to any established business willing to bring new jobs to the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotownSpartan
If the choice was between call center jobs and engineering or banking jobs, I'd say forget the call centers. However if the choice is between call center jobs and nothing, I'll take the call center jobs.
I'll take any job we can get but I'd rather not give away tax dollars for call center jobs when our schools, police force, etc. are all suffering and in need of money. Now, if we're giving tax abatements to attract the next Google or Apple or electric battery company, that may be different.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndavies
Sorry, Detroit is in a place that the only way you're going to get businesses to move here is by giving them the tax breaks. So the choice is we get a little tax from the employees and thier spin off business, or nothing at all due to the company not moving here.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotownSpartan
We should be fixing the cities issues, so we don't have to give special breaks to get companies to move here. The tax breaks are a symptom of not having a competitive business creation environment.
You wouldn't need the special tax breaks if the city bureaucracy functioned, the schools worked and crime was low. Taxes wouldn't be such an issue, If people thought they were getting what they were paying for. All they see in Detroit is high taxes with no results.
Ndavies, I totally agree. Great cities happen to be large employment centers first. Detroit was exactly that in the 1940's and 50's. But by the mid-60's the decline in manufacturing began and little if anything replaced those jobs.
Any tax abatements given to attract or retain jobs are essential, at least in my opinion. Detroit does not have a warm climate to tout or much in the way of natural scenery. Plus our urban problems are horrendous. The only solution to our economic demise is to try to bring in new jobs because maintaining our current employment base of auto/auto suppliers is exceedingly difficult and likely to only worsen. IT jobs, entertainment jobs, hospitality jobs, pharmaceutical jobs, alternative energy jobs, etc. are the types of employment that MI and Detroit need to bring to the region. A diversified economy weathers economic downturns better as a rule., not always, but as a rule.
These tax breaks are actually not all bad. Consider the lost tax revenue from the breaks. If the companies didn't get the breaks, they wouldn't be coming here anyways. You can then take into consideration the additional revenue from the individuals working for the firm. But, perhaps an even bigger kicker here, is the indirect tax revenue that would come from other nearby businesses and their employees. Additional people working downtown means more people spending money there, which means more taxable profits from other businesses in the area. So these tax breaks actually do more than most people notice, as most people overlook the indirect jobs these breaks create.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndavies
The good news is, that a lot of these credits have hiring benchmark thresholds, that if they are not met, or other things don't happen, they don't get the credits. Such is the case with Quicken... if they don't begin construction on a new headquarters building by 2013 they lose out on their credits.
Does no one else see the irony of a company based in India operating a call center in Detroit?
India is typically where they outsource the low income call center jobs... yeah, yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
No irony here. Considering they're not opening a call center and unless New Jersey was outsourced to India, the company is not Indian. [[You really should read the article and not the rampant speculation here.)Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&so...laxe+solutionsQuote:
Originally Posted by ndavies
It appears they have a figure head office in New Jersey. That is typical of these software outsourcing firms who maintain the majority of their operations overseas.
ETA: Not to imply that I believe this will be a call center. Frankly, I have no idea what they plant to do there. But I'm having the LOLz at the thought of an Indian company with a call center in Detroit.
I think 40% is generous--the actual numbers are much lower. I think a better long term plan is an overall competitive tax plan to attract jobs to MI.Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonite
Article Quote.... "The new jobs will pay $63,000 a year on average, Bryan said. Some positions require a college education, but the company is willing to train candidates familiar with software development, he added."
The article mentions "software development" jobs... so why are some of you even arguing over "call center" jobs?... :confused:
Hope and Cynicism argue like an old married couple. It's traditional. :D
I agree with your point about fixing city issues. If the tax abatements they got made a difference, we'd see 20 IT?software companies moving to downtown from out of State, not one in how many years filling only two floors of a small highrise?Quote:
Originally Posted by ndavies
http://metromodemedia.com/innovation...firms0160.aspx
"PSCU Holding Services will sink $12 million into expanding its software development, sales and technology-based call center and related support services in Auburn Hills. The financial service provider for credit unions plans to create 837 new jobs there over the next five years. To make this happen, the MEDC has given PSCU a $3.5 million tax credit [[the city of Auburn Hills is considering one, too) so it would make this investment in Michigan instead of competing sites in Florida and Arizona."
As you can see, the MEDC is not above giving tax breaks out for call centers. Again, I don't know the answer to this question but I wonder how the jobs at GalaXe will stack up - are they "call center" software development jobs/ business support jobs or true software development jobs? If they are true software development jobs, it seems people will probably need some sort of higher education; if they are more call center based jobs, on the spot training will do. Are these jobs of the level of quality of the nearby Compuware jobs and/or will they bring in the higher income white collar workers to the extent that even Quicken proposes? I think these are questions that should be answered, especially given that millions of dollars in tax breaks are being given out to this company.
I came across this link while doing a little surfing.
http://www.galaxesolutions.com/html/news/index.html#10
Based on the Channel 4 Vid, it sounds like the jobs are based around digitizing medical records. If that's the case, these are not entirely call center jobs. Not that they are computer programming jobs, but they do take more training than a call center job.Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG313
Also given the fact that they are starting with 50 people occupying 2 floors of 1001 Woodward, it doesn't lead one to believe that it would be a call center... a call center would be pretty well staffed from the beginning. The initial 50 people are probably setting up shop to do the recruiting and training.
From your description, it sounds like these are data entry/processing jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by esp1986
It does sound like that. But that takes more training than a call center job, and thus a slightly higher wage. I got that from the video. It said that is what a large number of the positions would entail, but thats not to say there won't be any programming jobs, should they have clients in the area. They do seem very optimistic that they will reach employment benchmarks, provided growth continues as projected. As with all of these though, time will tell. Either way, the silver lining in all of this, is more people in 1001 Woodward, with the possibility that more will follow as Quicken and other Dan Gilbert entities relocate downtown.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotownSpartan
MotownSpartan,Quote:
Originally Posted by MotownSpartan
You really are questioning these jobs.
Let me just say I was trained as a data entry/processor in the late 70s. Once upon a time “trainee” positions for computer jobs were the norm. You could actually find them listed in the classified. What’s wrong with trainee positions? I’m currently one of those white collar high tech employees you have referred to. And, I live in the city. My brother was hired as a computer operator trainee also in the 70s. And, he has had a very successful and lucrative career in computer operations. Actually, he was able to retire early.
How many white collar high tech employees who work downtown actually live in Detroit? Or, let’s narrow it down to the employees who work in the Compuware building? Doesn’t Compuware promote van pools? Yeah, I bet the majority of the employees get their paychecks, get into their van pools, and leave the city. Perhaps the jobs being offered by Galaxe Solutions will give Detroiters the opportunity I was given so many years ago. And, perhaps those employees will want to live and invest in the city.
Dang, sometimes there’s more optimism and less skepticism on a Lions forum than it is on this forum.
Really Originalg313, you're right - piss and moan piss and moan, jobs coming to Downtown, whine whine - and moving into an almost vacant building, such bad news, such bad news. Ask the owners of 1001 Woodward if THEY think it's bad. Ask the owners of a few shops near 1001 if THEY think it's bad. Most likely they will be thrilled. Where the newly employed people actually live is not the important issue, the issue is that some fair number of jobs will be coming to Downtown, or even to MI for that matter.
And $60,000 is more than I currently earn. But I guess some people want to crab about that being a pitiful salary.
Yeah, $60,000 is more than I currently earn, too.
The other, Fox, video on that web page called it a software development facility.
I think you're getting my comments wrong. I am in no way complaining about "jobs coming downtown." I've only questioned the millions of dollars our state/city gives away in tax breaks and said that we need more transperancy in that process. No one has been able to answer my questions about exactly what type of jobs these are - yet our public officials are giving away tax dollars to this company. I don't know that most people would agree that millions of dollars in tax giveaways are best used luring data entry jobs to our state... these are not the jobs that will transform our region. If this company was moving downtown without public dollars behind it, this would be different. This is especially true in light of our failing public schools and lack of money to fund the police force, etc. The city/state do not have unlimited resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonite
A great example of the lack of transperancy is the 60k figure, as I mentioned previously, this could mean that the vast majority of workers are earning extremely low salaries with one higher paid white collar worker that brings the average up. I'm all for "bringing jobs downtown" - but in a state/city with such severe budget issues we have to be careful about how spend money and prioritize projects. Dollars given away for data entry jobs means we may not have dollars to lure high-tech green jobs, or other "creative class" jobs - the jobs that will make the most impact in terms of transforming our city and region.
Agreed, MS.
In the current Downtown climate, a person earning $25,000 or less a year might possibly be more likely to move Downtown than a person earning $200,000 with a family. From what I've seen first hand, and you can disagree, is that lower income employees who live closer to work are more likely to walk to work or take public transit, meaning they will not necessarily increase vehicle traffic and not require a parking space at work, a parking space at home, a parking space at the video store, a parking space at the movie theater, a parking space at Comerica Park, a parking space at the corner store, a parking space a quarter of a mile down the road to pick up a sandwich on their lunch break, a parking space... etc..
I'm not sure we can handle too many more employees Downtown who don't live Downtown, without better transit or creating greater demand for parking and motorway widening. :)
We definately can handle them, so many thousands of workers have left downtown in recent years -- yet the parking spots they used are still there [[think of how many GM has laid off alone). Furthermore, I think that you raise some interesting points but the question is - how much will these jobs cost us [[i.e, in public money used to lure this company downtown) vs how much benefit do they provide?Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitDad
So much for the enormous parking structures Kwame built that flank this building on Woodward and Michigan Aves! I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. Surely better paying jobs create more jobs. $25k jobs are nothing to sneeze at though.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitDad
A bit of an aside, but Strategic Staffin Solutions had an official ribbon-cutting ceremony yesterday for a new data center Downtown. Videos are on Facebook. Currently they have 50+ employees at the new facility, but plan to have around 200 employees by year end.
I'm not certain of the actual location, but it may be near the River Walk area.
Looks like there are more lights on in the 1001 at night. I notice that there are 4 or 5 levels that appear to be more active... not sure if they are actually moved in or not yet.
Half Sarcasm, but really, there is not enough parking to compensate for all the vacant space Downtown, and I'm not sure that there could be. There is plenty of parking for the companies that are coming now, but we have some huge vacancies down here. I'm not sure we have the infrastructure to support all that space, let alone all the planned/hoped for space.
Making Downtown a better transit hub might be the best option, instead of building more expensive garages.
What is the average design life for those new garages, anyway?
I think there might be an unseen benefit in just having more entry level jobs near all the colleges in Downtown and Midtown. Livening up Downtown and increasing pedestrian street traffic and public transit ridership is something that these jobs might do, and something that would benefit Detroit and Michigan. We really need better city centers with more vitality in this state in order to keep our young people from going to New York or Chicago.Quote:
Originally Posted by MotownSpartan
Detroit right now doesn't cut it
You make a very good point. There needs to be more than just a job to keep young people, myself included, from running to Chicago as soon as we have a degree. But I don't think Detroit is even close to what Chicago and New York have to offer or ever will be. There needs to be an attraction outside of a job to lure young people downtown, and there are a lot of great things to do downtown and in the surrounding area, but it isn't what Chicago and New York have to offer. Once I have my degree, I probably will move away, but I know someday I will come back to Detroit because I like living here.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitDad
Perhaps just as importantly, is the fact that the jobs in this region are so spread out. If you grow up in Novi or Northville, go away to MSU for five years then come back to look for a job, you have little idea what companies are actually up in, say, Birmingham or Troy. If more of the jobs were centralized, it would make it easier for students to find jobs. So many students don't even know half of the companies around, so they jump ship. In Chicago or New York, most of the companies have offices in the city, and you start to recognize names pretty easily. Whereas in Detroit, you go from Compuware to, look, and abandoned building. If more of the businesses were centrally located that would be a big help to students finding jobs and employers recruiting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg19
Companies have no one to blame but themselves for talent leaving Michigan. It is more than just the jobs though, young people want to live in the city and not have a car, which is an opportunity that is not really provided by Detroit in the same capacity as that by Chicago or New York. If more was centralized in this region, we would all be a lot better off.