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Any thoughts on why not use Ford Field as the Wings temporary home while the new arena is built? It would keep all of llitches customers base in the immediate area and all of his parking lots full. It would keep Hockeytown Bar humming. I would think they could work around the Lions 10 Sundays.
It certainly worked for the Frozen 4 this past weekend.
I enjoyed the Frozen Four this weekend, and wouldn't mind seeing the occasional hockey game there. However I don't know why it would be so difficult to extend the lease at The Joe for a couple years while a new rink it constructed. That saves a tremendous amount of $ for Illitch and everyone associated the Red Wings.
It costs around $300,000 for the production of a temporary hockey rink like this weekend. That means if the wings drew 20,000 at about $25/ticket they would still only profit $200,000/game, which doesn't count additional rental costs and things like that. The best option is to extend the lease at JLA for a couple more seasons.
I just don't see it working with the Lions and Redwings seasons overlapping so much. You would have to dismantle the ice rink and risers before every Lion game. It isn't like sharing with Basketball where they put the floor over the ice they would hae to make new ice after every weekend.
A Ford-Ilitch partnership???
Too funny! Just check the ownership of the parking lots around Comerica/Ford Field to see how that would work out.
I think that it makes a lot of sense for the Red Wings to play at FF. It would be impractical to have the Wings play there during the football season [[they would spend a fortune setting up and tearing down the ice over and over again). If they waited until football was over, they could leave it set up for hockey for the remainder of the season. During the overlap, they'd play at The Palace. At both places, it would bring in more revenue than the Joe does currently, with many more seats, luxury boxes, more and better concessions [[admittedly, they'd be sharing it with Palace & FF). Moving out of the The Joe sooner rather than later will allow The Joe to be demo'd, and possibly incorporated into a new or expanded Cobo. And perhaps they could untangle that web of tunnels, fences, tubes, etc and incorporate that side of the project into the neighborhood. Also, The Joe as a facility loses a lot of money. The others make money. They Illitches would not need to pay for upkeep.
It makes sense to use the Palace for a couple of years while a new arena is built. It would be interesting to see how much they could charge for the boxes and such at the Palace, it would allow them to gauge what to include in the new arena. Obviously the 25 dollar nose bleed seats are history. Probably the arena will seat around 16,000 with a ton of boxes, and dedicated camera pits [[no more seeing people stand up and block the camera view). I've seen my share of Wings games, so I won't be going to the Joe, Palace or any new arena for many years. I'd rather be on my couch.
I can't see the Wings going to the Palace even on a temp basis, I may be wrong. Ford Field has proven it can be used as a temp facility and it makes sense to stay downtown. There would be 'bad' press about not being able to arrange an alternative, like a extension of the Joe's lease without any remodeling, or Ford field. I know many restaurant and bar owners who count on the game nights as a cushion against the decline of lunch and evening business due to the loss of office workers and the economy.
Let's remember a few things.
The Joe is thirty years old.
It was built with taxpayers' money.
The Palace was built 22 years ago.
It was bulit with Mr.Davidson's money, not the taxpayers'.
Not to be anti-Detroit, butr wouldn't just make more money sense for the Wings to move to the Palace?
Unless, the Ilitches dig into their pockets and pay for the new arena.
ABSOLUTELY NO TAXPAYER MONEY FOR A NEW DETROIT ARENA.
ABSOLUTELY NO NEW HOTEL, AIRPORT, RENT-A-CAR TAXES TO SUPPORT A NEW ARENA.
Kapeesh?
I defiantly agree with you on no taxpayer money for a new arena. But I don't think it makes sense for the Wings to play at the Palace ever. I think they'd get a lot of fans not going to games, or at least less games, until the new arena is build Downtown, especially considering the huge downriver and west side following. Not to mention, all the restaurants and entertainment Downtown that would be hurt, especially the Foxtown area. I hope they will stay at the Joe until the new one is build or play at Ford Field. No matter what happens for during the time the new arena is built, in the end Auburn Hills will be the big looser [[assuming the Pistons DO move to the new arena). The big winner being Downtown. So I'm satisfied.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude
the palace cost around 70 million to build, and in its first ten years was constantly undergoing "improvements" [[really fixes to shoddy construction) leaving the total cost of....? the concourses are WAY too narrow, with far too many pinch points.I feel like i'm a head of cattle being prodded toward the abattoir everytime I have gone to an event there
Agreed, I really can't stand to go to events at the Palace.Quote:
Originally Posted by casscorridor
Defiantly should be definitely and build should be built.Quote:
Originally Posted by casscorridor
How long will it take to build Illitch-Gilbert arena? One year?
The idea of the Red Wings moving temporary to Auburn Hills is a disaster. The Ilitches had years to prepare to either rehab Joe Louis or make the first move to build their new arena. You don't wait till your lease is at the end to think about moving. [[The Ilitches had the option to extend or exit and they exited the lease)
The only reason why you would play in another venue is that the old stadium/arena is being torn down to build a new stadium/arena. This has occurred when the city of Seattle/King County imploded the Kingdome to build Qwest Field, in Chicago when Solider Field was rebuilt and in Atlanta when they knocked down the Omni to build Phillips Arena. Since it was fact that the next arena would not be placed on the riverfront, the city, county and the Ilitches should have planned for the construction of the new arena.
Finally, if you are a sports fan that have some symbolism for the venue that said team plays at, then there should be a "goodbye to the Joe." No way should the Wings should just dis Joe Louis Arena after playing six Stanley Cup Finals on its ice, winning four of them and two coming on home ice. No, the Joe deserves a proper goodbye.
Well, I would surprised if they played Ford Field during football season. But if most people don't like them spending part of the season [[during construction of the new arena) at The Palace, how about having them "tour" and play a few games each in East Lansing, Ann Arbor, and Grand Rapids? It would be exciting for Wings fans outside of the Detroit to get a treat, and might help make them more popular statewide [[admittedly, I don't think they COULD get much more popular). Do any other Michigan cities have arenas that can seat 15,000+ people for hockey?
All Detroit teams IN DETROIT! No more Auburn Hills Pistons... or should I say poachers? Poaching the Pistons and Chrysler from Downtown and Highland Park respectively. And then L. Brooks Paterson says Detroit is the the one who is poaching!!! What a joke, give us back our teams, and our jobs and our investment!
Since the Lions are usually done after the last game of the NFL season I say, Let the Wings play their games at Ford Field.
I think Ford, Ilitch, and Mrs Davidson should form a temporary and have all three team playing out of Ford Field. The Piston and Red Wings will generate more revenue for the Ford family and for businesses downtown. Shuttle and Park and Ride busses could be available for fans who want to attend a game but don't want the hassle of parking. Pickup points could be any parking lot bordering Detroit such as the parking lot of the former Kmart on Gratioit and Eight Mile . There are many inused parking lots on the border of Detroit where fans don't have to pay $10 or $20 to park.The business community downtown and the sports franchises could split the bill for these busses. Another idea is the cost of the shuttle bus should be less than regular bus fare. 50 cents to $1. That would bring more fans out downtown Detroit and more revenue. Riders should recieve a stub for round trips. I wonder if "Businessman Bing", and other so-calleed city think tanks had that idea in mind.
After being in existence for 84 years, winning 11 Stanley Cups and becoming one of the most popular franchises in the country....strike that in the world, I don't think there is no more they need to do to be popular in the state of Michigan. Wouldn't you agree?Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
Though Ford Field proved that they could host an hockey event, it would be a tedious experience to removing the ice and re-inserting the ice when the Lions are playing. If it was the Pistons, then you deal with breaking down the wooden floor. You can't break down ice in sections and store it.Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog289
As I stated early, the Ilitches fumbled the ball on this one. So, here is what has to happen:
If the Red Wings intend to vacant Joe Louis Arena then the only possible location that they can go to is the Palace. Unfortunate but it is what it is.
It is fact that the city of Detroit doesn't have the funds nor the
tax base to fund a state of the art arena so the city and county will need to do what Dallas did to get American Airlines Center built which is getting another hotel/liquor tax passed and getting Ilitch and future billionaire owner of the Pistons to cover the rest. This will only work with said future owner of the Pistons "agreeing" to spend millions for a new arena. Ilitch will not go at this alone which is why no new arena is yet built.
I think most of us know that if the Red Wings goes to Auburn Hills they ain't coming back anytime soon.
The site lines at Ford Field for the Frozen Four were terrible! The rise of the rows is too gradual for hockey.
The risers were terrible for the Frozen Four, but the regular stadium seats were excellent even in the upper bowl.
Why does everyone assume a short term lease could not be worked out at JLA while a new arena is built? This seems like the most logical solution to me.
A short-term would be the preference option but somehow it appears that unknown forces are trying to get the Wings to commit to Auburn Hills.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitSTAR
To Palace Sports and Entertainment, it is the smart move. With the Pistons no longer selling out games and cutting ticket prices they could have another franchise playing there to off-set the losses by the Pistons.
I watched a little of the Frozen Four on TV, and I noticed that the temp seating was really shallow. Hockey seating needs to be steeper than that. However, I've always wondered whether or not they could just set up the hockey ice in Ford Field for the playoffs. They would have 40,000 every game.
I can not understand why the Red Wings would leave the Joe to play anywhere else unless a full renovation/reconstruction of the Joe was to take place, requiring it to be closed for a year. I can't believe that suddenly Joe Louis is completely unserviceable. I don't think the Palace would be a terrible hockey venue, but it just isn't the Red Wings.
If the Wings feel the Joe is a non-option going forward, I would want to split the season up, by playing October-December at the Palace, and January-playoffs at Ford Field. That way the rink would only have to be constructed once at Ford Field, and the Wings would play most games downtown. If Ford Field had a concert during that time, the rink could remain and be curtained off, and the other part of the stadium could be used, which would still seat 35,000 +
As for MikeyinBrooklyn, I think every team in the NHL should have to move one or two of their home games to different sites within their geographic regions; attendance be damned. Hockey fans are made by watching live, not on TV. The NHL had a series of 26 neutral site games in 1993-94, and I think it is a good idea. I think the Red Wings should play a game a year in Grand Rapids for sure. Perhaps another in East Lansing or Toledo, which each have 7,000+ seat buildings. Thats a little out of the box though.
http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com
As I stated early, the Ilitches fumbled the ball on this one. ....
Actually, they're widely considered in the driver's seat in this situation. Keep in mind that the JLA master lease involves the Cobo lease, as well, and the city needs leeway on that to get any expansion of Cobo done [[if the Cobo authority can overcome Brooks Patterson's appointee, who has a veto vote, which made expansion a dicey proposition the moment the state set up the authority up, FYI).
It is fact that the city of Detroit doesn't have the funds nor the
tax base to fund a state of the art arena so the city and county will need to do what Dallas did to get American Airlines Center built which is getting another hotel/liquor tax passed and getting Ilitch and future billionaire owner of the Pistons to cover the rest. This will only work with said future owner of the Pistons "agreeing" to spend millions for a new arena. Ilitch will not go at this alone which is why no new arena is yet built.
There is already the taxi-hotel tax that was used to pay for Comerica Park and Ford Field. Like Cleveland did to pay for some of the new Browns stadium in the 1990s, Detroit could simply extend the tax to pay off the bonds for a new hockey arena.
And keep in mind, the city would be paying a fraction of the cost. Comerica and FF together are a $1 billion project. Private money paid for much of it. The quasi-public Detroit-Wayne County Stadium Authority owns the stadiums, leases them to the county, which sub-leases them to the teams.
Just a month or two ago I wrote a story in Crain's on this very subject, and explored what's left on the bonds for the stadiums -- which is a lot. However, for the Ilitches, banks will treat their debt on Comerica not like they would treat credit card debt for you and I. Instead, banks see large stadium debt [[in good standing) as an investment. A new hockey arena would be a seperate venture, likely using a consortium of lenders, just like Ilitch used for Comerica [[funded by syndicate of banks led by Japan's Sumitomo).
The city doesn't want to lose the Red Wings to the suburbs. They're going to likely work out a new team-friendly lease that gives the Ilitches easy-outs if they want to move into a new arena downtown. And there is no worry that when the lease ends in June, the city is going to boot out the Wings. Who is going to replace them at the Joe? As Chris Ilitch told me when I wrote about this a couple months ago, "Do I look worried?"
DEGC is leading negotiations for the city on the lease and I would guess the new arena is part of those talks. Ilitches will want to move slow to give themselves time on the Pistons front -- to see who buys the team, and to assess their interest in a joint downtown arena. Tom Wilson hasn't been shy about saying that a shared arena is the best option. That would look attractive to banks, too, because 82 nights a year would have guaranteed revenue streams rather than the 41 nights of a single-team stadium. Makes it easier to schedule events on the other nights because you don't need as many.
Thanks for the insight Mr. Shea. I agree that the Ilitches and the city of Detroit don't want the Wings to relocate to Oakland County but these stories about Joe Louis being unsuitable is disturbing because Olympia has been managing JLA as well as Cobo Arena for years and if that's the case then the blame is on Olympia. Granted, Joe Louis was built on the cheap and was placed in the worst location but the media is spinning it like the roof is falling in, the ice is melting and the rats have colonized the place [[ok, the bit about the rats may be true) yet people still go to the Joe to see their favorite team and they will be there next season and the season after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BShea
IMO, the Ilitches need to kill the stories about their "impending" move to Auburn Hills and re-confirm their commitment to Detroit. I can understand they are waiting for the Pistons situation to clear up but the Pistons don't need to move. They would only move if a new owner have love for the city of Detroit.