People Mover & safety at night?

Tonight, I went down to the D to hang out with a couple of grad school girlfriends who are from the South Side of Chicago and south central L.A, respectively. We ended up exploring downtown using the People Mover... and I almost had my bag snatched for the first time in my life. My friend from South Side Chicago quickly moved between me and the young dude who was just about to go for it. There were other people in the car, but he seemed absolutely determined, like he had nothing to lose.

I've ridden the People Mover since its inception, without any thought of the time of day, and without incident. Has something changed that I should know about? I'm not used to being treated like a mark, especially not on Detroit public transportation. I didn't have a car until I was 23 and was intimately familiar with both the DOT bus and the People Mover for anything I wanted to get to, day or night. I *always* have taken a bag everywhere I went in Detroit, *everywhere*, and have never been a victim of personal crime.

This left me wondering if I'm an absolute idiot for considering a move back downtown as a single female. My friends, who are no strangers to rough and notorious urban environments, now definitely think so. They say that I've lost the instincts that probably protected me while I treated the city as my oyster in my teens and throughout my 20s, and can't behave the way that I used to, going here, there, and everywhere as night as a woman. My mother just thinks that folks are more desperate than they were in 1990 or 2003, and that I should wait the recession out before renting or buying down that way... "things will turn around, they always do," she says.

What happened has shaken me up pretty badly. I've never felt threatened anywhere in the CBD, ever, in almost 33 years of living. Detroit has always been my haven, the place where I return to recenter no matter how far away I roam. If I have that taken away from me, I'm not sure what I'll do.

you were probably wearing the wrong "colors"......

But my true mission is just revenge
you ain't in my sect, you ain't my friend
wear the wrong color your life could end
homocides my favorite venge

Sounds like you were just another victim of random crime. And how can that even be the case, he never even got your purse or "really" went for it, as in grabbing it and trying to tear it off you. You were with friends & strangers and he couldn't do crap. I wouldn't be hanging around the DPM at 2AM by yourself, nor should anyone, but when you are with friends or group it is not unsafe. Sorry it happened and thank god it wasn't worse than it could have been. No reason to move away or change your habits. Not to mention, it sounds like it was your time if you have been around the city a lot and used its transit frequently without any incident. It could have happened to anyone in any urban metropolis, male or female. Stay aware of your surroundings & smart about reading people, and don't let your guard down if you sense someone wants something more than the time or directions.

He did actually go for the bag, but my friend blocked it just as we came to the Fort/Cass stop. He jumped off the PM there, ran, and disappeared. It was around 9:45 pm.

Friends and some family members are really nervous about me moving back down to Detroit because they know that I don't really live with a lot of fear. Just because my older female relatives think that every lady could potentially end up as the missing victim on a true crime show, I refuse to be cloistered just because I'm a single woman, and scared to step outside of my door at night. That just isn't in my personality.

In return, life has been really good to me. I never have been afraid in Detroit or had reason to be. But my friends were shaken up and we're all black women who are from the 'hood. Any time you've got a South Side sista and one from L.A. chattering all the way back to U-M about how I'm gonna get myself into a bind that I can't get out of, then I listen. They say they NEVER go out at night back at home, and that just because I did it when I was 20 or 27, doesn't mean I can get away with it in my 30s or beyond.

Living in Detroit as a young woman in my 20s was glorious. I went to everything from forum gatherings to poetry readings to Detroit Synergy events to political rallies to Noel Night by myself if I couldn't find someone who wanted to go. If I felt like a coney island at Lafayette at 10 pm, I hopped in the car and went for it. If I wanted ice cream, I headed to Astoria. And I'd head to Fifth Ave/Small Plates/Union Street/Traffic Jam/Cass Cafe/anywhere I wanted to at night, without any kind of fear whatsoever. I wouldn't trade a second of my young adulthood, and I would place the fun I had up against any of my friends in bigger or "more exciting" cities -- because the COL was so cheap, I could dine out, go have drinks, go to the museum, or go to shows practically whenever I wanted on a young teacher's salary. I was also a hostess who prided myself on showing my out of town guests a great time. I definitely had a lot of fun.

I was looking forward to living a more mature version of that lifestyle again, but I'm really shaken up tonight. Nothing like this has ever happened to me. I sincerely hope that this isn't a sign or something... my two friends were a little soured on coming to Detroit at night, and it's not like they're sheltered suburban gentleladies, either.

Pointless to move away. Why even bring it up?? You seem to be quite content with Ann Arbor:

Date: Oct. 9, 2009

Alert ID: 2009-16 / AAPD#09-8158

CRIME ALERT
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

Date of Incident: Oct. 9. 2009, about 5:20 a.m.
Location: 700 block of Arbor Street near Packard and State streets [[off campus)
Offense: Home Invasion
Summary: As reported to the Ann Arbor Police, an unknown man entered a student’s apartment, brandished a shot gun and demanded money. He took cash and a Blackberry, and fled on foot. No one was injured.
Suspect: Black male, 6 feet 2 inches, thin build, wearing a black hoodie, black ski mask and black sweatpants.




CRIME ALERT
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

Date of Incident: Oct. 24. 2009, just after midnight
Location: Outside LSI Building [[210 Washtenaw Ave. near Huron St.)
Offense: Unarmed robbery
Summary: Student walked out of the LSI Building onto the plaza when he was approached by an unknown man who asked for money. The man took the student's wallet and fled on foot toward Washtenaw. No weapons were seen or implied.
Suspect: Black male, 18-20 years old, 5'9" about 175 pounds, wearing a dark blue coat with a hood and a dark baseball cap.





CRIME ALERT
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

Date of Incident: Oct. 31, 2009, 2:17 and 2:19 a.m.
Location: Two incidents next to campus – #1 – Packard at South Division [[west of South Quad)
#2 – South Division at East Jefferson [[one block north)
Offense: Unarmed robbery
Summary: As told to the Ann Arbor Police -- in the first incident, a student was walking toward campus with a friend, when an unknown man approached from behind and grabbed her purse from her shoulder. A few feet ahead, he dumped the purse contents and took a few items before fleeing on foot. In the second incident a couple of minutes later, a student was walking alone, when an unknown man approached from behind, pushed her to the ground, took her purse and fled on foot. No weapons were seen or implied.
Suspect: #1 -- White male, 21 years, 5’6� with thin build and short, straight brown hair, wearing a grey fleece jacket. #2 – White male, 22-28 years, 5’10� with medium build, dark brown hair and clean shaven, wearing a black t-shirt.

Alert Date: Aug. 8, 2009 Alert ID: 2009-14 [[AAPD#09-6029)

CRIME ALERT

UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGANDEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

Date of Incident: Aug. 8, 2009, approximately 2:10 a.m.
Location: Off campus in the 500 block of Linden Street
[[south of Geddes Ave. near Observatory Road)
Offense: Armed robbery
Summary: A female told the Ann Arbor Police that as she was walking along Linden, she was approached by an unknown man, who brandished a small handgun. He then punched her, took her cell phone and fled on foot north to Geddes.
Suspect: As described by Witnesses: Black male, about 22 years, thin build, medium-length braided hair and clean shaven.
UPDATE 6/10/09 - CANCELED - suspect arrested.


Date of Incident: June 7, 2009, about 10:57 a.m.
Location: Southeast corner of Diag between Shapiro Undergraduate Library and the West Hall arch
Offense: Purse snatching
Summary: A student was walking northwest on the Diag from the West Hall arch when she was approached by an unknown man. He asked her what time it was and where she was going. Then he grabbed her purse off her shoulder. After a brief struggle, he fled with her purse southbound on foot. She was not injured.
Suspect [[as described by witness): Black male in his late 20s, about 5’9� with a “fit� build, wearing a black bandana on top of his head, a black shirt with white block letters on the front and black pants.

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Originally Posted by wolverine

Pointless to move away. Why even bring it up?? You seem to be quite content with Ann Arbor.

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Okay, that snark is completely fair and totally deserved. Anyone who posts about a personal experience on this forum deserves what they get. Detroit is not for the weak. I found that out tonight, and so did my would-be attacker.

You know what I'm most content with? The fact that I'll never, ever call myself a Wolverine. Like many graduate students from other undergraduate institutions, my loyalties lie elsewhere. Indeed, I'm so detached from this place until I actually wear an OSU t-shirt someone gave me...

...to bed. Because after all, Wolverine territory is a very violent and scary place indeed.

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Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

No reason to move away or change your habits. Not to mention, it sounds like it was your time if you have been around the city a lot and used its transit frequently without any incident. It could have happened to anyone in any urban metropolis, male or female. Stay aware of your surroundings & smart about reading people, and don't let your guard down if you sense someone wants something more than the time or directions.

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You know, the more and more I think about it, the more I know that you're right.

Another alteration I'll make is to just stop carrying a bag into the CBD [[what I call a bag = large, oversized purse that can fit small purchases). If you're not carrying anything, it can't be snatched. My mother always fussed at me for wearing anything bigger than a granny-fanny pack downtown and I guess she was vindicated tonight.

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Originally Posted by English

You know what I'm most content with? The fact that I'll never, ever call myself a Wolverine. Like many graduate students from other undergraduate institutions, my loyalties lie elsewhere.

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Yes, when I was an undergraduate, I was a fanatic.. I have made all but two of the five-year reunions [[50th reunion coming up next year). I don't really care about the college I got my masters at.

English,

Just to make a statement her, no offense please. You, and I [[male, white, late 50's) and others of all makeups are looked upon as prey. To an extent we are. The criminal has to be up on his game at all times, hunting for the "mark". One of the reasons we are the mark is that we are getting older.

Especially to a young person intent upon criminal acts we are seen as weaker. Appearance, dress, our actions and reactions, all signs that they read. The can "take", in their minds they are stronger. If you look like you have something worth taking, they will try.

One of the tenets that is taught in CPL classes, which I have stated here previously is to be AWARE of your surroundings. Do not be complacent, always scan the surrounding area. This applies to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Bloomfield Hills, anywhere. As you experienced, there is no safety in numbers once you are targeted. Your purse snatcher, fast grab and to the exit quickly. Again, he has scoped out his surroundings, he is planning, plotting, looking for a out.

Be aware of your surroundings. Stay aware of what is going on around you. Desperate times make for desperate actions by some persons.

I have never seen a crime attempted or otherwise on the PM.

Not sure what the "grad school" thing adds to this conversation.
Should the criminals be wary of or attracted to grad school girlfriends?

I ride the People Mover from time to time and have noticed a diminution in the amount of security, no doubt due to the budget woes that are plaguing every other aspect of city operation. It may be less safe than it once was, and the same can probably be said of the CBD in general. However, I think that all things considered, it's doing remarkably well. Purse snatchings certainly happen on the L on Chicago's South Side, and they happen around central Ann Arbor late at night, too to those who aren't keeping an eye out. I'm an Ann Arborite who spends a good deal of time in Detroit.

Property crime seems to be crime of opportunity, and also seems to be more of an issue when it's not a school night. There is no excuse as to why this happens, but it is something you train to protect yourself from. Luckily, we don't have professional pickpockets here, but it's still not a bad idea to pretend we do.

Anyway, English, isn't helping solve some of Detroit's many problems one of the reasons you want to move back? This kind of petty crime is the result of various problems [[corruption, lack of good leadership, lack of jobs, lack of positive role models, etc.), and contributes to other more serious problems [[the broken window theory also applies to crime).

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Luckily, we don't have professional pickpockets here 


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Uh, Detroit Dad, yes we pickpockets, you just haven't been hit. Pickpockets don't walk around saying "Hi I don't know if you noticed me but...I'm a pickpocket."

Any time there's a big crowd downtown you have to be aware of where your valuables are. This isn't some big news flash, Detroit's a city. There have always been pickpockets, and people have always been warned to be careful in the city, in crowds.

English, I was warned not to go to U-M because the crime rate is so much worse than in E. Lansing. Wanting to be free to walk around at all times of night, as a solo female, is a pipe dream. There are few places in the 'burbs where you should do that.

Having said that, the PM thief seems particularly brazen, in front of all those people. I agree with your mother that people are a bit more desperate today, and that's reason to up your guard.

Guess you need to look at living in Royal Oak then

I was born and raised in Detroit, and although I no longer live there I am in the city A LOT. We have season tickets to the Fisher, Hilberry, DIA membership and my husband teaches in the city. Other than having my purse stolen from my desk [[when I worked in the city) I have never been a crime victim. That being said, I am careful--especially right now. I don't carry a purse. I put everything I need in a small change purse [[license, credit card, cash) and put it in an inside buttoned pocket of a coat. The last few times I've been downtown [[within the month, Gem and the Opera House) I have felt nervous walking to and from parking lots. We're cheap, we always park in the cheap lots, which means we walk a bit. Just be careful, and watchful of your surroundings...and don't carry a big purse.

Thanks everyone. I posted to find out if there's stuff going on that people have heard about, and that I wouldn't hear about on the news. And BTW, I certainly have never posted ANYTHING about Ann Arbor being safe on this forum or anywhere else EVER, so you can miss me with that crap.

I guess I need to just adjust a few things. I'm particularly thinking about laptops -- I'm getting a really nice one from WSU, and was planning on working in some of the new cafes. I'll need to think of a way to carry it that doesn't draw attention. But what I don't want is to become a purse-clutching, street-crossing, trembling wimp anytime a lone man or a group of men crosses my path.

pffft, I hear you. But I've always gone places in the city and the 'burbs at night, not wandering the streets by any means, and NEVER past 11 pm when I'm by myself. When you work all day, every day, and it's dark so much of the year in the evening, I think it'd be not that great of an existence to only be able to shop or catch up with friends or go to an event on Saturdays or Sunday afternoons. I am religious, and attend church a couple of weekday nights... sometimes afterwards, I'll stop by the store. Also, sometimes I need to run to CVS or the grocery store to get things, and it gets dark at 5 or 6 in the winter. I don't have a guy in my life to do those things... and who's to say that if I did, he'd always be willing and available to do it?

Shovelhead, one thing that has happened is that I dress a lot better than when I was a DPS teacher, not because I have any more money, but by dint of doing a lot more consultant work out of town, and supervisory work, for the past 5 years. I think that I used to have this "I work with young people and I ain't scared of young black men" attitude as well. I've taught juveniles before, in two different summer school programs, and I can count the times I've ever felt threatened by young brothers on one hand... actually, other than this incident, I have to go back to when I was 14 and being harassed at a bus stop near the North End... nearly 20 years!

East Detroit, the point is that they're U-M grad students from big cities and neighborhoods that are arguably rougher than most of Detroit. If they hadn't been with me, I would have gotten the bag snatched. He did go for it, but my girlfriend from South Side Chicago saw him coming and stood between me and him with her hand inside her coat pocket. All she had was mace, but he didn't want to chance it. So in this case, thank God for grad student SISTERfriends. A lot of the women I know aren't half so savvy.

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Originally Posted by Patrick

Guess you need to look at living in Royal Oak then

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I don't get this. Even if I live somewhere else, I will be working in the CBD. Until yesterday, I always felt more comfortable in the CBD than I did in RO... it's more familiar. I don't know the ins and outs of RO shops, and I don't know the people who manage or own places the way I used to know places in the D.

If I don't move directly to Detroit, it'll be an inner ring suburb that's diverse, and I'll rent instead of buying, because the intent will be to save up in order to move somewhere in Detroit. It's not a question of whether I'll live in Detroit again, it's a question of timing.

Judging by what I've read here, seems as if the purse snatcher has done this many times in the past. Consider the crime itself, and the timing needed to effectively snatch the purse and escape the PM once it had been committed. Random? Sure. Never happened before? Not likely.

Sounds too me that your perception of the city has changed a bit, English. As a twentysomething I was pretty much invincible too. Now that you are older, you become a little more vunerable. If this shakes you up now, just wait for the jolt of actually living that existence daily. I always figured from your previous posts here that your perception of Detroit was always a little bit on the "rose colored glasses" perspective.

I think you should listen to your friends. They seem to have a bit of common sense.

A friend's car was stolen from Lafayette in front of WDIV, between 9-11 p.m. [[so the sun had just gone down, it was summer) last September. The Hotel Fort Shelby is in full gear, the street is well lit there, etc. That's brazen. I'm not doing street parking after 5, for any reason.

My friend used to park there all the time when he worked at 'DIV, no problems. Clearly there are more "issues" these days, with less security/cops, more desperation.

And English, I don't mean you have to stay in as a solo female, just that the late night thing, alone, is problematic anywhere.

It wasn't even an expensive or expensive looking bag. It was cheap. That's the kicker.

Stosh, I want to continue to live life with rose-colored glasses, actually. Why is it that black women from Detroit can't be positive and optimistic? Do we all have to walk around with bad attitudes, "keepin' it real"? Seriously? And then people complain that it makes us undesirable as women, and that's why so many of us are single.

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Originally Posted by pffft

And English, I don't mean you have to stay in as a solo female, just that the late night thing, alone, is problematic anywhere.

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That's true. It's sad that it's true, but it is. I don't do quite a bit at night [[such as go to the ATM anywhere -- that's just ill advised), but I will walk from a building to my car, even if it's several blocks. Once in a blue moon at an event, a guy will insist on escorting me back to my car afterward, but usually that doesn't happen here in the North... it does when I'm traveling in the South.

It's also interesting that the first time this happened, I was with two other people. Usually I'm flying solo, and I'm just fine. Granted, I wouldn't have ridden the DPM by myself -- I would have driven my car to the several stops on our route and parked nearby -- but I've got a lot of friends who do not post on these boards. I can imagine telling my sisterfriend professor who wanted to have dinner at 7 pm back in January "I'm sorry, I don't go out in Detroit at night" after we've both grown up here. She would rightfully wonder if I'd lost my mind.

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Originally Posted by English

It wasn't even an expensive or expensive looking bag. It was cheap. That's the kicker.

I want to continue to live life with rose-colored glasses, actually. Why is it that black women from Detroit can't be positive and optimistic? Do we all have to walk around with bad attitudes, "keepin' it real"? Seriously?

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Nobody is stopping you from doing that, I suppose. Being positive and optimistic is fine in most cases, but as long as the tint isn't so dark in your glasses that it blinds you to reality.

And the attitude thing? Let's just say that while you were out with your friends, relaxed, and enjoying yourself, was your guard down? It pays to have a bit of attitude in public places. And if you weren't carrying a can of mace, or something a bit stronger, shame on you. I think that the best defense is a good offense. A little protection goes a long way for projecting the "attitude" you need.

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Originally Posted by pffft

A friend's car was stolen from Lafayette in front of WDIV, between 9-11 p.m. [[so the sun had just gone down, it was summer) last September. The Hotel Fort Shelby is in full gear, the street is well lit there, etc. That's brazen. I'm not doing street parking after 5, for any reason.

My friend used to park there all the time when he worked at 'DIV, no problems. Clearly there are more "issues" these days, with less security/cops, more desperation.

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Thanks for the information. This is the kind of stuff I'm trying to gauge... how things may have changed during my time in graduate school.

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Originally Posted by Stosh

Nobody is stopping you from doing that, I suppose. Being positive and optimistic is fine in most cases, but as long as the tint isn't so dark in your glasses that it blinds you to reality.

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Glad to know that's what you think of me. Rest assured I'll keep it in mind whenever I interact with you from now on.

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And the attitude thing? Let's just say that while you were out with your friends, relaxed, and enjoying yourself, was your guard down? It pays to have a bit of attitude in public places. And if you weren't carrying a can of mace, or something a bit stronger, shame on you. I think that the best defense is a good offense. A little protection goes a long way for projecting the "attitude" you need.

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Duly scolded. Thanks.

Not that you need to know this, but of course I carried a visible canister of mace when I lived in Midtown and worked at CT. It was on my keychain. I never needed to use it, though. But hey, maybe we should all be packing so that if we receive a suspicious look, we can eliminate any and all threats. If I'd pulled out my gun the second he started to size me up, yeah, that would've showed him!

"I posted to find out if there's stuff going on that people have heard about, and that I wouldn't hear about on the news."

Check out the city's on-line crime stats. 99% of that stuff never makes it to the news, sort of like the sea of busted glass along Congress many Monday mornings.

Then factor in the amount of crime people don't bother calling the cops to report, because, well, it's Detroit. It's not like they're going to investigate.

I'm still confused, though, about how someone can claim to grow up in Detroit and then be shocked [[shocked!) that there's crime and that they could be a victim.

In my little corner of the city, in one of the "stable" neighborhoods on the east side, in a two-mile radius, there were 52 crimes reported in 5 days lat week. That's 10 crimes every day within two miles of my home. How many weren't reported? I know I've never bothered calling the cops any of the 4 times my garage was broken into in the last 3 years.

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Originally Posted by EastSider

I'm still confused, though, about how someone can claim to grow up in Detroit and then be shocked [[shocked!) that there's crime and that they could be a victim.

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Simple. Because I never have been before, and I'm not exactly a spring chicken. I have two younger sisters who are still in their 20s, who go out at night with friends to far more risky places than I ever would, and neither of them have experienced any personal crime, either.

Even more crazy, none of my cousins have experienced any, either. In fact, no one in my generation has had a car stolen, smash and grab, assault, raped, groped, pickpocket, been robbed, shot, stabbed, or injured at all on the streets of Detroit. We have FRIENDS who have, and some of our older RELATIVES have, but nothing ever happened to US. And most of our friends and relatives never had anything happen to them.

In my experience from my earliest memories in the early 80s until now, crime happened to two groups of people in the city: 1) those interacting with criminals and involved in that lifestyle, and 2) easy "marks" like people who leave ANYTHING on their car seats, people who don't have eyes in the back of their heads, or people who scurry around the CBD looking nervous and scared.

Since I didn't fall into group #1 or group #2, why on earth would I expect to be a victim? And indeed, the point of this thread was that last night, I wasn't... but I am shaken up. Anyone would be unless they're superhuman.

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Originally Posted by EastSider

In my little corner of the city, in one of the "stable" neighborhoods on the east side, in a two-mile radius, there were 52 crimes reported in 5 days lat week. That's 10 crimes every day within two miles of my home. How many weren't reported? I know I've never bothered calling the cops any of the 4 times my garage was broken into in the last 3 years.

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Didn't see your update. That's fair. I have heard there's more property crime occurring. One of my older cousins is nearly retired from the DPD and his car was stolen from his driveway last December. He says he's fed up, will leave the force in January, and is moving to Arizona.

Look, despite what Stosh and others may think, I'm not skipping around the city, singing "Do Re Mi". I was born in the mid-1970s and by the time I knew anything, Detroit was in the middle of the crack wars. I grew up behind barred doors, barbed wire fences, security alarms, and starting around 2004 when I moved from Midtown back to the 'hood, surveillance cameras. As a little kid and preteen I spent a lot of time being frightened and stressed out and worried that something would happen. It wasn't a great childhood to be honest. I went to magnet schools, and then I took the bus home, and my parents would be there to pick me up. We didn't have ANY freedom to wander or roam around the neighborhood, and we were not allowed to associate or play with the neighborhood kids. We weren't allowed to go to sleepovers, because someone got shot at one back in the mid-1980s, I guess. That is how and when I learned to write -- I felt like I was growing up in prison.

But then our house got broken into back in '88 and after that I figured, well, it's already happened. And then I decided that I would never be scared again. Why live life from the standpoint of a victim? If something was going to happen to me, what was worrying about it going to do besides cut down on enjoying whatever life I was blessed with?

I spent the decade of the 1990s riding the DOT wherever I had to go in the city. I've seen a lot, despite my optimism and lightheartedness, trust me. All city kids have. I just always was able to see the bigger picture.

I risked the snark and the bullying from this forum because I'm trying to process things, and as always, I know how to sort the BS from the helpful advice one gets here. For the first time in my life, I am questioning whether I have the wherewithal to make it in Detroit 24-7. If so, fine, I've had a good run, and I can give back by working and setting up youth programs in the city once again. Maybe the right program will change the life of some young would-be robber.

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Originally Posted by English

Glad to know that's what you think of me. Rest assured I'll keep it in mind whenever I interact with you from now on.

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Hard to figure out your intent on this statement. Must be that attitude thing....:D

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Duly scolded. Thanks.

Not that you need to know this, but of course I carried a visible canister of mace when I lived in Midtown and worked at CT. It was on my keychain. I never needed to use it, though. But hey, maybe we should all be packing so that if we receive a suspicious look, we can eliminate any and all threats. If I'd pulled out my gun the second he started to size me up, yeah, that would've showed him!

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I just love how you can start with a fairly reasonable sentence, then veer off into left field in the next sentence. I never explicitly implied that you should play Dirty Harriet on the streets of Detroit, but perhaps it's worth a look see into as well.

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Originally Posted by English

Simple. Because I never have been before, and I'm not exactly a spring chicken. I have two younger sisters who are still in their 20s, who go out at night with friends to far more risky places than I ever would, and neither of them have experienced any personal crime, either.

Even more crazy, none of my cousins have experienced any, either. In fact, no one in my generation has had a car stolen, smash and grab, assault, raped, groped, pickpocket, been robbed, shot, stabbed, or injured at all on the streets of Detroit. We have FRIENDS who have, and some of our older RELATIVES have, but nothing ever happened to US. And most of our friends and relatives never had anything happen to them.

In my experience from my earliest memories in the early 80s until now, crime happened to two groups of people in the city: 1) those interacting with criminals and involved in that lifestyle, and 2) easy "marks" like people who leave ANYTHING on their car seats, people who don't have eyes in the back of their heads, or people who scurry around the CBD looking nervous and scared.

Since I didn't fall into group #1 or group #2, why on earth would I expect to be a victim? And indeed, the point of this thread was that last night, I wasn't... but I am shaken up. Anyone would be unless they're superhuman.

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English, I can sort of understand where you're coming from. Bad news is so prevalent about Detroit regarding crime that some folks think that every Detroiter has a close and intimate knowledge of crime. Yes, I've had my car broken into, but I thank God often that I've never had my person threatened in any way. I like to think that I'm aware of my surroundings and don't take unnecessary risks and you should continue to live your life the same. You sound like you'll be fine. I agree with another poster, this was just your time -- and it really turned out not to be. So lets hope that your "time" has come and gone forever.

http://www.crimemapping.com

http://spotcrime.com

I would suggest you continue to carry your purse, minus all valuable articles. Keep credit cards, drivers license, large bills, etc. somewhere else on your person. This way if your purse is stolen, you have not lost much. [[Also a good way to get rid of purses you don't want anymore! :D...:[[)

^ Thanks mam2009. There are so many good things about the city, and when I think about choosing another place within commuting distance to WSU, I'm just not that enthused. I just need to spend some time over the next few months getting reacclimated, that's all.

I've always been able to gauge Detroit on a block by block basis... you know, there are some places you go and are fine, and others you avoid, and those places definitely shift over time. My judgment was off last night. I'll definitely make adjustments so that it won't happen again.

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Originally Posted by Retroit

http://www.crimemapping.com

http://spotcrime.com

I would suggest you continue to carry your purse, minus all valuable articles. Keep credit cards, drivers license, large bills, etc. somewhere else on your person. This way if your purse is stolen, you have not lost much. [[Also a good way to get rid of purses you don't want anymore! :D...:[[)

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Good idea, Retroit. I've also got a cheap backpack that I can cart my school stuff and laptop around in. The drawback is that it's starting to hurt my back. [[Darn 30s!) I also have a rolling briefcase, but it's not that portable on stairs. I start at WSU in May, so I need to be prepared fairly soon.

Despite my snarking at Stosh, one thing is for sure -- I need to put my mace back on my keychain. That thing is a good third of the size of a police baton. I took it off when I got in trouble up here at UMich and with the Ann Arbor cops a few times for having it -- "it's illegal". My whole argument that "I don't want to be raped!" was lost on them. They kept confiscating it, and my grandma kept buying it. LOL! I'm going to also practice using it.

This is definitely TMI, but as I write this, I remember that I also used to carry a switchblade from the time I was a teenager until I moved up to Ann Arbor. My mom got it for me back when I was a Girl Scout, and my dad taught us what to do. Again, I think that I lost it during some security thing a few years ago. And yes, I have thought about getting my CCW permit, and started talking about it back in 2004, although my mother's totally against it. She thinks it's more likely that as a woman, I could be physically overpowered and shot by any would-be assailant.

Finally, I think I need to start dating again. Haven't done so seriously since I started writing the dissertation and have avoided a few opportunities b/c the timing and the person weren't the greatest. But the right guy can definitely be a deterrent... and this way, I would be by myself at night a lot less frequently.

Thanks for letting me vent, everyone. I need to stop secondguessing myself. I'm sure I'll be all right.

That's just Daily Reality in Detroit, English. You've known that the entire time; it just feels more real, now, because something almost happened [[which, in this case, sort of means that something did happen: you were threatened or, at the least, felt threatened.)

So, shake it off [[give yourself a few days,) and don't even think about making any Big Decisions while you are still traumatized. Proceed as planned, with a mind aimed toward raising your caution level. Onward & upward, goddamit.

I am a firm believer in the theory which holds that if your number is up, it's up, and if it ain't, it ain't. Yours wasn't. Good shit, as they say.

And, speaking of numbers and up-ness, who knows? Maybe that low-life will live to be 97 years old, or maybe he absent-mindedly stepped in front of a bus not ten minutes after dashing off of the People Mover.

There is no "Bottom Line," here. Something scary happened, you came through with your self & your stuff intact, and now you've relieved some stress by writing about it.

Now get some sleep, fer chrissakes.

Hi English,

First, I am sorry to hear that you were the victim of an attempted crime. I am glad that you were with friends, and that your friend was able to thwart the attempt.

As far as what to do going forward with where you live, I think you are taking the right approach by trying to gather more information. Besides that, however, I think you should also consider the mental side of things, and weigh that against all the positive things that would come with living in or near the CBD.

By mental side of things, I mean your own mindset. Having been a victim of an attempted crime, will you now be overly nervous walking around by yourself even when it is not very late at night? Are you willing to go forward having to put in the effort to be aware of your surroundings, or would it make you much happier to live in a very safe area in which you can be more laid back? Are these downsides worth the price of living in Detroit and trying to contribute to something positive? I think the answers to these questions will help guide you one way or another, and I would not blame you for answering any of them yes or no.

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Despite my snarking at Stosh, one thing is for sure -- I need to put my mace back on my keychain

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Which brings up a more curious question... Why is English snarking at Stosh at all? :eek:

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Originally Posted by English

I risked the snark and the bullying from this forum because I'm trying to process things, and as always, I know how to sort the BS from the helpful advice one gets here.

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I don't know how many internet fora you frequent. In my opinion, this is one of the most civil and considerate. If you want to get into a real internet food fight, go over to Democratic Underground. The ranters over there are particularly brutal.

Ravine & cman710: Thanks! It's really appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

I don't know how many internet fora you frequent. In my opinion, this is one of the most civil and considerate. If you want to get into a real internet food fight, go over to Democratic Underground. The ranters over there are particularly brutal.

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Not very many these days, to be honest. Although in the early days of the Internet, I thought the anonymity was fun and was all over the place, I don't really care for online spaces where posters do not use their real names. Facebook, once I joined 4 years ago, put that distinction into sharp relief for me.

I find that the anonymity of the Internet leads to a sort of "online disinhibition effect":
http://www-usr.rider.edu/~suler/psyc...isinhibit.html

If I didn't know some of the folks on DYes in real life, and have a good idea of who some of the others are, I'm sure I wouldn't participate here. As it was, I never had as many posts on the old forum as a lot of people, and I still don't post a whole lot now. I do far more lurking and reading than posting.

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Originally Posted by English

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Originally Posted by Eastsider

In my little corner of the city, in one of the "stable" neighborhoods on the east side, in a two-mile radius, there were 52 crimes reported in 5 days lat week. That's 10 crimes every day within two miles of my home. How many weren't reported? I know I've never bothered calling the cops any of the 4 times my garage was broken into in the last 3 years.

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Didn't see your update. That's fair. I have heard there's more property crime occurring. One of my older cousins is nearly retired from the DPD and his car was stolen from his driveway last December. He says he's fed up, will leave the force in January, and is moving to Arizona.

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Unfortunately, not all of those crimes were just property crimes. There were home invasions in the middle of the night, all on the same night within 4 hours of each other, one and two blocks over from me. There's also assaults on there. You know what they say, Detroit rises!

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Originally Posted by Retroit

... I would suggest you continue to carry your purse, minus all valuable articles. Keep credit cards, drivers license, large bills, etc. somewhere else on your person. This way if your purse is stolen, you have not lost much.

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I was about to suggest the same thing only boobytrap the purse with a dye pack and a stink bomb.

English, as many others have already said, just put this experience in perspective. The incident could have happened to you anytime, anywhere.

Ironically, back in the 70s, I was at a hockey game at Yost Arena parked in the lot not far from the entrance. Came out to find my radiator was stolen. Thieves are stupid and often brazen. Nothing has changed. Be aware of your surroundings, just as you should do anywhere.

When I get on the freeway these days, I tense up far more than I do when walking around downtown. I've often wondered what the odds are that I might be hurt in an auto accident and how that would compare to the odds of being harmed on my walks. Regardless of what the statistics may bear out, I know I feel more comfortable walking the downtown streets.

I have to say, about the friend's car stolen on Lafayette that summer night [[during Jazzfest), a few things.

One, I know not to park on the street, I always, always pop for the $5 or whatever it is, for the parking deck. During Jazzfest, the Compuware parking deck is nice and close. No probs ever for me.

The other thing, friend was driving a '90s Mercury, a big grandpa car that's popular in the neighborhoods...it was stolen for parts.
And very easy to get into.

So while I think car theft is pretty strong downtown, it has been for years. I've been fortunate, worst that's happened to me is a broken car window, nothing taken. You just have to take precautions; street parking in the evenings is dodgy.

English, I have lived in detroit for a long time. Grew up on the eastside. With that being said, I understand what young people go through living in the city. Reading this thread, I really see that you are not alone in the way you feel about how there are people that just want to live. I, as well as my family think that detroit is not dangerous, there are just dangerous people in this area that don't have any other means but to rob and steal. I just really like the fact that this thread exist to make people aware of the real dangers that are out there. Not only in detroit, but chicago, l.a., and elseware. Young and old need to understand that anyone of us can be a victim. Just be ready, and prepared.

Downtownguy & bragaboutme -- thanks. Just got off the phone with Chicago friend, who's still a little shaken up. She did talk about how her South Side neighborhood went down after the projects were torn down, and grows worse, so she's sympathetic.

pffft -- I've had hubcaps stolen twice, so I guess I have experienced property crime as an adult.. But to be quite honest, it didn't even register as a crime back then. It was always more of a "sh*t, they got me, bastards!" reaction. I didn't replace 'em either time, and they only got what was curbside [[passenger side).

I've experienced petty theft in Ann Arbor, too. The most expensive was a pair of new shoes at the Meri Lou Murray Rec Center... left them on a bench in the women's locker room, and never saw them again. I'd started cross training in early 2009 and lifting weights, and I'm an irregular size, so I paid dearly for them. Oh well. I guess I never really dwelled on stuff like that, because I figured it was the nature of the beast and every time I'd experienced it, I was stupid and careless and deserved it. But I've never had my person threatened.

Stuff happens everywhere in this region. Thanks for helping me put this into perspective, guys. I'm really appreciating DYes today.

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Originally Posted by English

Stuff happens everywhere in this region. Thanks for helping me put this into perspective, guys. I'm really appreciating DYes today.

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And I think that we've learned a lesson about dealing with Detroit from you. It's going to take more of that positive-despite-some-problems attitude to help the petty thieves get the message - We aren't going to take it any more.

Exactly, DetroitScooter. I'll be back. I'm just seriously considering another secured highrise, though, despite the inconveniences of not having an upstairs/downstairs or the convenience of your car in close proximity to your domicile.

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Originally Posted by Stosh

Which brings up a more curious question... Why is English snarking at Stosh at all? :eek:

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Stosh... that's an easy one... I'll answer...

Have you ever watched "Everybody Loves Raymond"? Sometimes you come off with comments which to you sound completely innocent.... reminiscent of Marie [[Barone) when she gives a critical [[but she thinks helpful) answer to her daughter-in-law Debra... [[such as "Cookie dough in a log? Well that's almost baking.") but with a smile... only you use the smiley.... :D ... which is useless when the message sounds critical... but you then think people are overly sensitive to your comments... just like Marie.... you think you're giving good helpful comments... but others don't take it that way...

Comprendez-vous? ....:D

English, they call it the "Mugger Mover" for a reason. Don't blame yourself, it's the town that's gone bad-not you. But to satify the "everywhere else sucks too" meme on DetroitYes, My brother grabbed a pickpocket trying 2 snake my Dad in New Orleans, guy was so intent on his crime he never thought the 6'08" dude was related 2 the old white guy. You're luckier than a brilliant 6'04" criminoplogy student on Atlanta's PeopleMover equivalent;
http://wsbradio.com/localnews/2010/0...ta-murder.html

FlyingJ, that's terrible. I feel sad for that young man's family. It's so senseless.

We did notice that the young man looked suspicious right away. If he had pulled a gun and demanded the bag, I would have given it to him and just figured out the rest later. Our parents drummed that into our heads. There's nothing worth giving up your life for, and I wouldn't want to have to face my friend's family in Chicago... it makes no sense to escape one 'hood, be in GRAD school, and end up a victim in another.

We think he may have just decided not to risk an altercation. The thing that left the aftertaste in our mouths was that he seemed not just threatening, but desperate and nervous. A theft can turn deadly if people are either scary or coldblooded, as we saw in the case of that ATM shooting AFTER the man gave that couple his money.

We have got to figure out what we're going to do with the youth and young adults all over this country who are completely unplugged from mainstream American society. We can't lock 'em all up, but then I think about young men like my sister's fiance. He's 24 and he hasn't had a job in almost a year. My sister's supporting both of them, but without a college education, these young men of ALL races are going to soon be a permanent underclass. They've got to eat and have a roof over their heads and a sense of manhood and respect so that they can feel safe... however they can come by it.

Along with fixing the schools, we have GOT to figure out some sort of 21st century blue collar economy. In FDR's America, this young black man wouldn't have to snatch purses in order to feel some sense of control, he would have been in the Civilian Conservation Corps. That's where my fatherless grandfather learned a lot of skills that served him later in life. My dad suffered the horrors of 'Nam in the late 60s, but it was the military who taught him how to parent.

The more and more I think about this, the more determined I am to do more. Obviously, teaching and mentoring isn't enough. We need a comprehensive program. NOTHING in any of Duncan's plans on the national level, or Bobb's plans locally, really do very much for adolescents or especially adults. We can build a world class school system and have all the light rail in the world, but if these youngsters don't have a sense of purpose and direction, if they are amoral, we might as well write Detroit's epitaph now.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Stosh... that's an easy one... I'll answer...

Have you ever watched "Everybody Loves Raymond"? Sometimes you come off with comments which to you sound completely innocent.... reminiscent of Marie [[Barone) when she gives a critical [[but she thinks helpful) answer to her daughter-in-law Debra... [[such as "Cookie dough in a log? Well that's almost baking.") but with a smile... only you use the smiley.... :D ... which is useless when the message sounds critical... but you then think people are overly sensitive to your comments... just like Marie.... you think you're giving good helpful comments... but others don't take it that way...

Comprendez-vous? ....:D

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Boy... talk about a heaping helping of nothing. You might have chosen to speak English. [[Ironic, I know!) And also, please take your own advice. If you have a hard time figuring out where I am coming from, perhaps you should re-read some of your condescending phrasing in your postings.

And for your information, I did not use the smiley. I used this: :eek:, which also accurately describes my reaction to the jargon riddled, obscurely referenced diatribe you've decided to post.

1) English, I'm sorry you had a scary moment on the People User.

2) I tend to leave my purse and carry my wallet, keys & phone on my person somewhere [[NOT that I'm blaming you for what happened, most women carry purses, of course. Just a tip)

3) Last time I was on the People Mover, a group of guys sitting across from me were leering, cat-calling, and drinking beer. I was alone. No cops anywhere to be seen to enforce open container laws, or even to give them dirty looks. The whole thing made me feel very uncomfortable. This was way back at JazzFest, and I haven't been on since :[[

4) I'm extra-sorry this happened to you on the People Mover because it feels even scarier when you're a prisoner in a moving vehicle [[that, granted, goes nowhere).

REL: Thanks so much for the tips and the empathy. About #3, I can relate, we did two rides. I almost lost my bag on the second. On the first ride, there was a group of six or seven boys and one sent a weed-laden leer in my direction. I gave him my best "quit before I turn you over my knee, little boy" look, but I was glad that they didn't get off at Greektown with us.

Of course, your story and my story doesn't indicate a trend, but I don't remember a bunch of folks from the ghettohoods chillin' on the DPM in 2005 or before. A lot of my friends from the 'hood didn't like riding it or were always nervous about the lurching, etc. When did the kids start riding the DPM at night like that?

You're so right about the purse. I thought I was being more efficient and eco-friendly by having a bag that could contain my lady things, valuables, and purchases. Ann Arbor has obviously eliminated any kind of street sense I had... and I think that it did, because my first year up there, EVERYONE was telling me to lighten up and chill out. Whatever.

I didn't take a purse when I did a food run to Ypsi this evening, and I went before dark. Haven't been out all day; stayed home and cleaned house. Usually I like go out on Saturday nights, especially once the weather gets nice, but my roommate wasn't home and I didn't want to come back to a dark house. A couple of my friends texted me, but I chose to stay in... which is why I've been on DYes so much.

Sigh. Was going to meet my best friend for brunch down there tomorrow. I think I'll wait until I get my head back together... also want to be near a TV to see how the healthcare thing shakes out, so maybe I'll head down that way on Tuesday when I run my errands.

BTW, I've been thinking about the story of Julio Diaz, who was robbed at knifepoint by a teenager. Instead of getting scared, he decided to help him:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=89164759

Quote:

Along with fixing the schools, we have GOT to figure out some sort of 21st century blue collar economy.

English,

Truer words were never spoken, by you and many others.

In the early 1990's my high school auto shop teacher and friend of over 40 years said the same thing, lamenting the direction of his suburban school district and it's decision to de-emphasize the manual arts so to speak. More emphasis on CAD-CAM, and "clean" work. No more hands on so to speak. And emphasis of allowing manual labor to be sent overseas.

I agreed with him then and still today. When putting all your eggs in one basket, well you better not drop the basket. We now see how many engineers in America are out of work, the global manufacturers can outsource to India the same work at a fraction of the price. Look at Tool and Die manufacturing, to China. We cannot compete with a Chinese worker living in company housing working seven days a week.

And on a more personal note, like you stated in the above quote,some people are just not cut out for design work, Geometry, calculations, etc, better suited to manual tasks. I'm one of them, I'll be the first to admit it. I've been successful in my line of work since the early 1970's, but for example computers, I'm limited to e-mail and web surfing. Anything else just boggles my mind.

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Originally Posted by shovelhead

In the early 1990's my high school auto shop teacher and friend of over 40 years said the same thing, lamenting the direction of his suburban school district and it's decision to de-emphasize the manual arts so to speak. More emphasis on CAD-CAM, and "clean" work. No more hands on so to speak. And emphasis of allowing manual labor to be sent overseas.

I agreed with him then and still today. When putting all your eggs in one basket, well you better not drop the basket. We now see how many engineers in America are out of work, the global manufacturers can outsource to India the same work at a fraction of the price. Look at Tool and Die manufacturing, to China. We cannot compete with a Chinese worker living in company housing working seven days a week.

And on a more personal note, like you stated in the above quote,some people are just not cut out for design work, Geometry, calculations, etc, better suited to manual tasks. I'm one of them, I'll be the first to admit it. I've been successful in my line of work since the early 1970's, but for example computers, I'm limited to e-mail and web surfing. Anything else just boggles my mind.

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There are a lot of jobs going begging for "competent" automotive technicians, marine diesel technicians, and appliance repairmen.

Hmmm, according to the CrimeMapping site there seems to be a lot more going on Downtown than a lot of people here would like you to believe. I'm looking at you DeroitDad and you CassCorridor.

I have a feeling if all car break-ins downtown were reported there wouldn't be enough room on the map to mark them all. I know I didn't report mine a few months ago.

English, if you were planning on moving to Detroit, and you still want to live in Detroit, I think you should proceed with that plan.

When you felt as though Detroit was your "oyster," and came & went as you pleased, Detroit was plenty damned dangerous. Really.

But, you were very young, and when we are very young, we are invulnerable. Those Breaking News Alerts aren't scary, because they are always about somebody else. Our parents are raving sirens of over-wrought, exaggerated hysteria.

Fast-forward to Now. You're older. Not all that much, but enough so that your contretemps on the People Mover, side-stepped as the danger was, left you shaken up and feeling some qualms about your planned move. You don't feel invulnerable, anymore. So much the better, since you never were.

Well, you were wrong about that invulnerability stuff. So what. Everybody else was wrong about it, too.

I think you have shown a tendency to believe that you were quite the worldly, street-smart sister from the 'hood, and you have bristled when folks like me have had some rather harsh things to say about Detroit.
I think the PM incident re-aligned your perspective on the city, and on yourself. That is not said as a way of crowing that we were right and you were wrong; the point is that, just that quickly, you are seeing things a bit differently, eh?

However, I went through all of that so I could arrive at this:
When you were very young and freely oystering around town, your sense of carefree nonchalance [[understandable as it may be) was inappropriate to the circumstances.
The Good News is that your current state of anxiety and doubt is, to some extent, also inappropriate to the circumstances. You're just shaken up. Why wouldn't you be shaken up? But, it will pass, and if you really want to live in Detroit-- the one that you know just a leetle bit better, now-- then, goddamit, you go right ahead and move to Detroit, because not-doing something you want to do, because you're scared, is for losers.

I think maybe you just needed a little wake-up call, perhaps on a couple of different fronts. I could be wrong, but it seems as though you picked up.

So Welcome Back, goddamit.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

There are a lot of jobs going begging for "competent" automotive technicians, marine diesel technicians, and appliance repairmen.

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On foreign manufactured items. We need manufacturing here, not just service work.

Dependence on foreign manufacturing IMO is as bad as dependence on foreign oil.

What if [[always expect the unexpected) China sides with, say North Korea and sets off a conflict in South Korea? And we side with South Korea? Where does that leave us?
Or if China sides with a mid-east rogue nation? That attacks us or sets off a mid-east war? Anything is possible.

Just saying.......

Shit. I'm sorry; I didn't realize that this thread, which was initiated by English and regarded a highly personal matter, was no longer about English or her highly personal matter.

Please excuse the interruption. Carry on.

English, sorry about your experience with the would-be purse snatcher. Crime is everywhere. My elderly Aunt in Eastern KY was a victim of of a home invasion/ purse snatching up in a holler with no one nearby, recently.

Have you considered a CCW permit? It may allay your fears about going out at night and raise your feelings of safety wherever you go.

It sounds like this incident has finally married two things together in your mind: the [[partly media fueled) perception of Detroit being a "dangerous place", and a personal experience to confirm the perception. I'm not surprised that your friends from South Central and the South Side would think that you're crazy for wanting to live in Detroit. I know people who grew up in the worst parts of Brooklyn and the South Bronx, who have this perception that Detroit must be hell on Earth*.

*Once at a party, I actually had someone literally say to me "You're from Detroit? From what I heard about it, I thought that place must be something like Hell of Earth."

Please excuse me if my tone begins to sound a little harsh after this... But I have to be honest: this sounds like such a non-issue to my ears. I ride the NYC subway almost every single day, and nearly every time I'm on it I hear an announcement telling me to watch for three things: 1) pickpockets, 2) purse-snatchers, and 3) terrorists.

Yes, you were almost the victim of a purse-snatching, but... so? I think it's a safe assumption to say that there was a purse snatched on a street or transit system in every major city in America yesterday. That the purse just happened to be yours is the statistical price that you paid for carrying a purse in the civilized world. If that's something that you aren't willing to deal with then carry your purse in a jungle in Papua New Guinea until you're blue in the face without fear of ever encountering one purse snatcher... But just be cognizant of the man-eating tigers roaming about.

Thank Ravine and iheartthed. More food for thought, as I follow the shenanigans in the US House over health care on C-SPAN.

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Originally Posted by Warrenite84

English, sorry about your experience with the would-be purse snatcher. Crime is everywhere. My elderly Aunt in Eastern KY was a victim of of a home invasion/ purse snatching up in a holler with no one nearby, recently.

Have you considered a CCW permit? It may allay your fears about going out at night and raise your feelings of safety wherever you go.

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My mom is worried about me getting shot with my own gun.

So sorry to hear about your Aunt. We're becoming a less cohesive and more amoral society as a whole. People are more into self-preservation than they are into concern for their fellow human, I guess.

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Originally Posted by neighbor

Hmmm, according to the CrimeMapping site there seems to be a lot more going on Downtown than a lot of people here would like you to believe. I'm looking at you DeroitDad and you CassCorridor.

I have a feeling if all car break-ins downtown were reported there wouldn't be enough room on the map to mark them all. I know I didn't report mine a few months ago.

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With Ravine's post to English in mind, I have to say that my views on Detroit have changed significantly in just the time I have been here.

There isn't a week that goes by where I don't see broken glass on First st, near DTE, or on my walk to work down two blocks of Bagley. Beyond that, there is regular rowdiness and vandalism for club goers in Downtown. Building owners and officials have gotten good at hiding the problems in Downtown though, and so I worry a little less about more serious crime than I used to.

Most of the messes are fixed within days, usually before the work week begins. This is important because the appearance of not caring about place and small crimes lead to a belief that the people there let a lot slide, or just don't care, supposedly leading to bigger problems with crime and blight.

During the day, Downtown has a lot more "eyes on the streets" than it did just a decade ago, and that does make me feel more confident in having my family live here. However, we know where to avoid, and what to look out for, many new residents and guests to Downtown Detroit do not. If petty crime is really crime of opportunity, and I am aware of those opportunities, than the city actually is safer for me, but not for visitors or new residents and workers.

[[Continued below)

Of course, I still am living amongst people who are shady criminals, but then, the suburbs and surrounding neighborhoods are not that much farther, and I have to wonder if it's all just a case of out of sight, out of mind. That was my thinking behind being okay with living where I live. I'd rather have our problems constantly infront of me [[and my daughter), forcing those problems to always be in front of us and on our minds, instead of hidden unseen a couple of miles down the interstate/motorway.

English, this ties into your personal brush with crime and thoughts on frustrated urban youth, and older people just stuck in their ways. It should be common knowledge that in the majority abandoning Detroit, the cities have been defaulted to where our region and Michigan tosses it's throw away children.

Thanks DetroitDad. You're right, if everyone flees, then there's fewer eyes around. I definitely would like to be your neighbor simply because we *need* more professionals to move into revitalizing neighborhoods. Last night, my mom suggested Birmingham. When I was a kid in the 1980s, I seriously thought if I went to Birmingham, they'd arrest me. I know better now, and I do go up there occasionally to have lunch or coffee with friends, but I can't afford North Woodward on a single assistant prof's salary.

And I think that there's some value to having grown up *in* a city. Sure, I was shaken up and my friends were too. But I kept my bags, keys, wallet, and heck, even my sweet potato pie from Astoria Pastry Shop precisely because all three of us had grown up in three different ghettoes. We noticed the kid from the moment he got on, we knew he was coming for my bag, and my friend took action. Even in 'hoods you don't know, as rapper Lauryn Hill once sang, "Every ghetto, every city/Every suburban place I been/Makes me recall my days in the New Jerusalem". The American urban experience has some broad similarities, which is why I'm friends with these ladies, and why we chose to get out of Ann Arbor and start our weekend in the city.

Now, if you change the demographics of the three of us, the result very well may have been different. A lot of young women [[well, we're in our 30s, so I guess not that young) may not have known what to do.

I definitely don't mind sharing this slice of my personal business if it helps other people stay alert and hold on to not just their bags and purses, but their laptop cases and camera bags. And yes, I'll be back in the city on Tuesday, and soon, just about every day. It will be great to get back into the swing of things again, and maybe get to some forum gatherings... it's been at least 6 years.

I wasn't trying to be snark in my post at all. I posted the crime notes to prove a point. You shouldn't let an incident like this prevent you from moving to downtown Detroit. Anywhere you go, you should always be aware of your surroundings. Even in the best of neighborhoods people get mugged.

But I found it rude to go on the unnecessary University of Michigan rant....ok so you hated it there. It had nothing to do with this discussion.

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Originally Posted by wolverine

I wasn't trying to be snark in my post at all. I posted the crime notes to prove a point. You shouldn't let an incident like this prevent you from moving to downtown Detroit. Anywhere you go, you should always be aware of your surroundings. Even in the best of neighborhoods people get mugged.

But I found it rude to go on the unnecessary University of Michigan rant....ok so you hated it there. It had nothing to do with this discussion.

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Wolverine, I've had a great experience at the University of Michigan, and just the promise of the degree has already opened many doors. It will open doors for the rest of my life. However, those experiences are all about the wonderful professors and colleagues I've worked with, not about "Wolverine" sports culture.

You can't control how people respond to you. You found me rude -- well, I definitely found your post insensitive and mean-spirited and I chose to mirror that insensitivity and mean-spiritedness back to you. It's not as if I interjected my opinion about U-M sports into any thread here in the past -- I'm simply not interested. To treat me, as several of you did, like an idiot who doesn't know that crime exists everywhere just doesn't deserve a serious or polite response. Especially not in the wee hours of the morning.

the people mover needs to be 24-hours, if it's going to mean anything in the long term.. at least until 2:30, right after the bars close..

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

the people mover needs to be 24-hours, if it's going to mean anything in the long term.. at least until 2:30, right after the bars close..

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Isn't it open later on the weekends?

^ It's open until 2 am on Fridays and Saturdays.

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Originally Posted by English

Wolverine, I've had a great experience at the University of Michigan, and just the promise of the degree has already opened many doors. It will open doors for the rest of my life. However, those experiences are all about the wonderful professors and colleagues I've worked with, not about "Wolverine" sports culture.

You can't control how people respond to you. You found me rude -- well, I definitely found your post insensitive and mean-spirited and I chose to mirror that insensitivity and mean-spiritedness back to you. It's not as if I interjected my opinion about U-M sports into any thread here in the past -- I'm simply not interested. To treat me, as several of you did, like an idiot who doesn't know that crime exists everywhere just doesn't deserve a serious or polite response. Especially not in the wee hours of the morning.

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What makes you think I care about Wolverine sports...because of my username? Never once have I ever mentioned any of that. Where are you coming up with this stuff?

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Originally Posted by wolverine

What makes you think I care about Wolverine sports...because of my username? Never once have I ever mentioned any of that. Where are you coming up with this stuff?

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I was responding to this statement of yours: "But I found it rude to go on the unnecessary University of Michigan rant....ok so you hated it there. It had nothing to do with this discussion."

In that "unnecessary rant", never once did I imply that I "hated" the University of Michigan, here or anywhere else.

Here is your first statement in the thread:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolverine

Pointless to move away. Why even bring it up?? You seem to be quite content with Ann Arbor.

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This thread is not about you, Wolverine. It's about what I experienced Friday night in the CBD. If you want to start a thread about crime in A2/U-M, feel free.

Sorry to hear about the incident English... it is very disturbing and leaves you shaken for a while. Here's an option regarding laptops: Carry your laptop in a backpack NOT a "traditional" laptop case.

A laptop "case" screams what the contents are.... I'm in and out of all kinds of areas so I put my laptop down in one of those cushioned tight zipper cases, then put that down inside a dark non-decript BACKPACK or heavy duty cloth tote bag. I line the bottom of that with the bubble wrap and just take care how I set the bag down... which I rarely do. They even make backpack "style" laptop cases that are already cushioned.

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Originally Posted by English

Thanks everyone. I posted to find out if there's stuff going on that people have heard about, and that I wouldn't hear about on the news. And BTW, I certainly have never posted ANYTHING about Ann Arbor being safe on this forum or anywhere else EVER, so you can miss me with that crap.

I guess I need to just adjust a few things. I'm particularly thinking about laptops -- I'm getting a really nice one from WSU, and was planning on working in some of the new cafes. I'll need to think of a way to carry it that doesn't draw attention. But what I don't want is to become a purse-clutching, street-crossing, trembling wimp anytime a lone man or a group of men crosses my path.

pffft, I hear you. But I've always gone places in the city and the 'burbs at night, not wandering the streets by any means, and NEVER past 11 pm when I'm by myself. When you work all day, every day, and it's dark so much of the year in the evening, I think it'd be not that great of an existence to only be able to shop or catch up with friends or go to an event on Saturdays or Sunday afternoons. I am religious, and attend church a couple of weekday nights... sometimes afterwards, I'll stop by the store. Also, sometimes I need to run to CVS or the grocery store to get things, and it gets dark at 5 or 6 in the winter. I don't have a guy in my life to do those things... and who's to say that if I did, he'd always be willing and available to do it?

Shovelhead, one thing that has happened is that I dress a lot better than when I was a DPS teacher, not because I have any more money, but by dint of doing a lot more consultant work out of town, and supervisory work, for the past 5 years. I think that I used to have this "I work with young people and I ain't scared of young black men" attitude as well. I've taught juveniles before, in two different summer school programs, and I can count the times I've ever felt threatened by young brothers on one hand... actually, other than this incident, I have to go back to when I was 14 and being harassed at a bus stop near the North End... nearly 20 years!

East Detroit, the point is that they're U-M grad students from big cities and neighborhoods that are arguably rougher than most of Detroit. If they hadn't been with me, I would have gotten the bag snatched. He did go for it, but my girlfriend from South Side Chicago saw him coming and stood between me and him with her hand inside her coat pocket. All she had was mace, but he didn't want to chance it. So in this case, thank God for grad student SISTERfriends. A lot of the women I know aren't half so savvy.



I don't get this. Even if I live somewhere else, I will be working in the CBD. Until yesterday, I always felt more comfortable in the CBD than I did in RO... it's more familiar. I don't know the ins and outs of RO shops, and I don't know the people who manage or own places the way I used to know places in the D.

If I don't move directly to Detroit, it'll be an inner ring suburb that's diverse, and I'll rent instead of buying, because the intent will be to save up in order to move somewhere in Detroit. It's not a question of whether I'll live in Detroit again, it's a question of timing.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Sorry to hear about the incident English... it is very disturbing and leaves you shaken for a while. Here's an option regarding laptops: Carry your laptop in a backpack NOT a "traditional" laptop case.

A laptop "case" screams what the contents are.... I'm in and out of all kinds of areas so I put my laptop down in one of those cushioned tight zipper cases, then put that down inside a dark non-decript BACKPACK or heavy duty cloth tote bag. I line the bottom of that with the bubble wrap and just take care how I set the bag down... which I rarely do. They even make backpack "style" laptop cases that are already cushioned.

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Zach, thanks -- that's a GREAT idea! I've got one of those nice zippered sleeves, and always get the cheap bags from conferences. [[At one point, I was using my sorority bag to cart around everything -- it doesn't look all that special. The bubble wrap is also a great idea.

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Originally Posted by English

This thread is not about you, Wolverine. It's about what I experienced Friday night in the CBD. If you want to start a thread about crime in A2/U-M, feel free.

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Might I refresh you what I responded to:

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Originally Posted by English

This left me wondering if I'm an absolute idiot for considering a move back downtown as a single female.

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No you aren't. And you should move back to Detroit if that is what you've been intending to do all along. There is crime where you currently live [[as you are aware of my post on page 1), and it's possible anyone, including you, could still be a victim.

Sorry it happened to you. Since this thread is about you, hopefully you won't mind other people sharing stories about similar situations.

I won't go any further with this.

Thanks Wolverine. I'm willing to drop it too. Have a good night.

The gun thing... I'm just not a gun type of guy. I suppose I should have one, but I don't really want one. I made it this far without one.
The gun thing ties in with a related issue, here. As some folks have suggested, staying safe in a crime-ridden city does involve using some judgment about where to go, when to go there, etc. That's pretty obvious, although I once heard a female co-worker announce that if she felt like going to the party store on the corner at 11:30 on a Friday night, well, she was just gonna do it, and she wasn't about to let fear dictate her movements. That last part is good, as a concept, but at the same time, I thought, Geez, it ain't about proving something, it's about keeping risk at a minimum. Like with gas stations: even if you're a super-macho tough guy, why allow yourself to end up in a spot where you have to buy gas at 3:30 in the morning?
I bring that up because it relates to something I once heard someone say about owning a gun. He said that when he began carrying a gun, his decision-making processes changed. He took chances that he would not have taken before. Sort of like the bit where you see someone, who looks somehow threatening, headed in your direction on the sidewalk. Do you cross the street, or not?
Using that as an example, he said that once armed, he no longer would avoid people like that, because he figured, What the hell, I'm carrying. If he wants to fuck with me, well, let him bring it on.
The point he was making is that carrying a gun caused him to stop practicing the avoidance of such potentially confrontational moments, and-- thereby-- increased the chances that he would be involved in a violent incident. Once he realized that he was doing things differently, it bothered him because, for him, the bottom line was that while he didn't want to come out on the losing end of a situation of that type, he didn't really want to end up blowing a hole through somebody else, either. His conclusion was that the very act of carrying a gun, changing his behavior in the way that it did, made it increasingly likely that he would wind up using it.
He decided to stop carrying. Personally, I don't see why he didn't just continue carrying, but return to his formerly more-cautious, confrontation-avoiding ways.
But he had a point, there. Just sharing it, I am.

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Originally Posted by Stosh

Boy... talk about a heaping helping of nothing. You might have chosen to speak English. [[Ironic, I know!) And also, please take your own advice. If you have a hard time figuring out where I am coming from, perhaps you should re-read some of your condescending phrasing in your postings.
And for your information, I did not use the smiley. I used this: :eek:, which also accurately describes my reaction to the jargon riddled, obscurely referenced diatribe you've decided to post.

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Aw common Stosh, don't take it so personally.... I appologize when I make a gaffe, but you seem to do it with impunity... such as these 2 comments to English [[one has the smiley I war referring to, not your later comment)....

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"I think you should listen to your friends. They seem to have a bit of common sense."

"Hard to figure out your intent on this statement. Must be that attitude thing....:D"
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Those have Marie Barone written all over them.... ;)

And you wondered why English got hostile towards you??? But you don't see it I guess...

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Aw common Stosh, don't take it so personally.... I appologize when I make a gaffe, but you seem to do it with impunity... such as these 2 comments to English [[one has the smiley I war referring to, not your later comment)....

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"I think you should listen to your friends. They seem to have a bit of common sense."

"Hard to figure out your intent on this statement. Must be that attitude thing....:D"


Those have Marie Barone written all over them.... ;)

And you wondered why English got hostile towards you??? But you don't see it I guess...

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That smile was a poke at this statement.:

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I want to continue to live life with rose-colored glasses, actually. Why is it that black women from Detroit can't be positive and optimistic? Do we all have to walk around with bad attitudes, "keepin' it real"? Seriously?

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The smiley was a misguided attempt to avert the usual attack reply. Don't worry, I wont try that again, or even bother with replying to anything she posts. It's not worth getting beat up over, by her, or you.

And actually, instead of "keepin it real" how bout a bit of "maintaining thy authenticity"? Sounds a bit more cultured....

While I have you here, Gistok, maybe you can tell us all about how your name is in a bigger font than anyone elses here? How much did you have to pay for that little attention getter?
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Originally Posted by Ravine

...although I once heard a female co-worker announce that if she felt like going to the party store on the corner at 11:30 on a Friday night, well, she was just gonna do it, and she wasn't about to let fear dictate her movements. That last part is good, as a concept, but at the same time, I thought, Geez, it ain't about proving something, it's about keeping risk at a minimum. Like with gas stations: even if you're a super-macho tough guy, why allow yourself to end up in a spot where you have to buy gas at 3:30 in the morning?...

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Well, wasn't that the rally cry after the 9/11 terrorist attacks? The idea of the war on terror [[fear) was that we weren't going to let ourselves become hostages to fear, and those who were using fear as a weapon. This is a touchy subject to me, because I, not unlike English, have been ridiculed or questioned as just trying to prove something by living and eventually starting a family here. The thing is, for me it is at least partially about proving something, not to other people, but to my self.

When the Hell did that happen; morals and doing the right thing taking a back seat to fear; dishonor now put before not just death, but now life?

Maybe the beliefs I'm carrying around are just from another time?

Making prudent, sensible decisions that minimize risk has absolutely nothing to do with being a "hostage to fear," and having something to prove-- to someone else, or to yourself-- provides fertile ground in which to grow multiple bad decisions.

Holy smokes! All this hand-wringing over something that didn't happen? Really?

Either English is a first class drama queen or this forum has become populated by nincompoops- or both! Let me reiterate this- NOTHING HAPPENED!! A MAN GOT OFF THE PEOPLE MOVER AND A GROUP OF WOMEN DECIDED TO ACCUSE HIM OF ATTACKING THEM.

NOTHING HAPPENED- apparently I can not say this clearly or often enough. Grow up people.

That's a good point, Michigan. Could it be that English was pre-judging a person by how he looked? Racial profiling, perhaps? Hmmm.... What would we think if a white woman made the same assessment of a black man?

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Originally Posted by English

... and I almost had my bag snatched for the first time in my life. My friend from South Side Chicago quickly moved between me and the young dude who was just about to go for it. There were other people in the car, but he seemed absolutely determined, like he had nothing to lose.

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English, you have some explaining to do.

Michigan, take your meds.

Retroit - didn't you post upthread?

BTW, what I came back here to post is that I was in the city all day today, from morning until just now. Drove my octogenarian grandmother around on a number of errands in neighborhoods most of the forum doesn't go to, but that I know like the back of my hand. Sad to see so much shuttered and run down that was vibrant 10 years ago.

Tonight I had dinner at my sister's. Turns out that my brother-in-law is sick of commuting from the NW suburbs to work in downtown Detroit, and is moving their family downtown in May. He read this thread, and then got to the end. He asked me about the demographics of DYes. I told him. Then he asked why I post here. [[Was going to post, but I told him not to do so -- it's just not that crucial to me what people say about me on the Internet.)

I post here and shared this story [[the first time I've ever shared something so personal) because I wanted to glean some information about how the day-to-day situation in the city may have changed since 2005, and to find out why I was obviously in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong stuff. In a postmodern, postindustrial information age, you have to sift through the bs to get the gold in any medium. DYes is no different.

What I think I'll tell him is that if I stop posting, there will be one less woman, one less black person, one less person born and raised in post-1967 Detroit, and one less person under 35 on these forums [[fora). I enjoy learning from Ray1936's stories. I enjoy viewing Lowell's photographs. I enjoy reading the insights from the preservation community. And I am glad that you all were here to hear my story, and to help me sort through things that first night.

Thanks to those who gave their opinions, especially those who messaged me off thread. I'm still ambivalent about what I'll do about my move, but I've got at least 6 months before I have to decide. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by English

BTW, what I came back here to post is that I was in the city all day today, from morning until just now. Drove my octogenarian grandmother around on a number of errands in neighborhoods most of the forum doesn't go to, but that I know like the back of my hand. Sad to see so much shuttered and run down that was vibrant 10 years ago.

Tonight I had dinner at my sister's. Turns out that my brother-in-law is sick of commuting from the NW suburbs to work in downtown Detroit, and is moving their family downtown in May. He read this thread, and then got to the end. He asked me about the demographics of DYes. I told him. Then he asked why I post here. [[Was going to post, but I told him not to do so -- it's just not that crucial to me what people say about me on the Internet.)

I post here and shared this story [[the first time I've ever shared something so personal) because I wanted to glean some information about how the day-to-day situation in the city may have changed since 2005, and to find out why I was obviously in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong stuff. In a postmodern, postindustrial information age, you have to sift through the bs to get the gold in any medium. DYes is no different.

What I think I'll tell him is that if I stop posting, there will be one less woman, one less black person, one less person born and raised in post-1967 Detroit, and one less person under 35 on these forums [[fora). I enjoy learning from Ray1936's stories. I enjoy viewing Lowell's photographs. I enjoy reading the insights from the preservation community. And I am glad that you all were here to hear my story, and to help me sort through things that first night.

Thanks to those who gave their opinions, especially those who messaged me off thread. I'm still ambivalent about what I'll do about my move, but I've got at least 6 months before I have to decide. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

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Wow, just wow. I feel like I just sat through a discussion with Monica Conyers. Someone discounts your story, someone points out the obvious facts, not assumptions or opinions or expectations but facts, and you start to yell "Racist!" at the entire forum. Maybe, just maybe, your "sifting" screen is the wrong gauge. If you think that you will find any large nuggets on an internet forum then you have a lot to learn about life. Well, there I go stating the obvious again.

It seems to me that you can not stand to be challenged in any way. That is odd for someone who claims to have an advanced degree and who wants to help Detroit students to be all that they can be. Shouldn't students challenge their teachers intellectually? Weren't you challenged by your professors?

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English http://detroityes.com/mb/images/stat...ser_online.gif

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 388



Michigan, take your meds.

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In closing- nice stereotypical jab at folks who need medication to maintain their psychological balance. You are just so sensitive and caring about every one and it shows when you post something like that on a public forum. For a person who claims to be super sensitized because of their race and sex, you certainly do not display much tact or decorum. Come to think of it, you will fit in at DPS!

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Originally Posted by Michigan

Wow, just wow. I feel like I just sat through a discussion with Monica Conyers. Someone discounts your story, someone points out the obvious facts, not assumptions or opinions or expectations but facts, and you start to yell "Racist!" at the entire forum. Maybe, just maybe, your "sifting" screen is the wrong gauge. If you think that you will find any large nuggets on an internet forum then you have a lot to learn about life. Well, there I go stating the obvious again.

It seems to me that you can not stand to be challenged in any way. That is odd for someone who claims to have an advanced degree and who wants to help Detroit students to be all that they can be. Shouldn't students challenge their teachers intellectually? Weren't you challenged by your professors?

In closing- nice stereotypical jab at folks who need medication to maintain their psychological balance. You are just so sensitive and caring about every one and it shows when you post something like that on a public forum. For a person who claims to be super sensitized because of their race and sex, you certainly do not display much tact or decorum. Come to think of it, you will fit in at DPS!

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It's Wayne State, but otherwise, spot on.

Michigan and Stosh, I've revealed some personal information about myself on this forum over the years. So yes, everyone here knows that I taught in Detroit schools, have finished my Ph.D, and will be at Wayne State. You're spot on. Since I don't know anything about you, I can't throw the facts of your lives into your face.

Hey, if you feel that I'm paying the race card, then so be it. If you feel as if I'm an idiot who hates white people, men, and those with mental health challenges, and continually rant about the same on these forums, then so be it. If you feel that my postings on an Internet forum are reflective of Monica Conyers, then so be it. If you feel that I don't want to be challenged in any way, then so be it. You've called me out. After these pixels, you've summed up my character -- just another drama queen! Congratulations. Pat yourself on the back.

I'm not sure what response you're looking for that would be satisfactory. Since you've sized me up so well, haven't we come to an impasse? Now that I've been put into my place and shamed into silence, isn't the conversation over?

What ultimate result are you looking for here? Your tone implies that I'm a lost cause. Since, as Michigan put it, "If you think that you will find any large nuggets on an internet forum then you have a lot to learn about life", then what does this do other than make you feel wise and important? Seems a little hypocritical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by English

Michigan and Stosh, I've revealed some personal information about myself on this forum over the years. So yes, everyone here knows that I taught in Detroit schools, have finished my Ph.D, and will be at Wayne State. You're spot on. Since I don't know anything about you, I can't throw the facts of your lives into your face.

Hey, if you feel that I'm paying the race card, then so be it. If you feel as if I'm an idiot who hates white people, men, and those with mental health challenges, and continually rant about the same on these forums, then so be it. If you feel that my postings on an Internet forum are reflective of Monica Conyers, then so be it. If you feel that I don't want to be challenged in any way, then so be it. You've called me out. After these pixels, you've summed up my character -- just another drama queen! Congratulations. Pat yourself on the back.

I'm not sure what response you're looking for that would be satisfactory. Since you've sized me up so well, haven't we come to an impasse? Now that I've been put into my place and shamed into silence, isn't the conversation over?

What result are you looking for here? Since, as Michigan put it, "If you think that you will find any large nuggets on an internet forum then you have a lot to learn about life", then what does this do other than make you feel wise and important? Seems a little hypocritical.

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Actually, Michigan and Stosh are spot-on. This thread, two pages of an almost-mugging, has reinforced many of my opinions of your inflated sense of self-worth. At first, I felt a little sorry that you were frightened by a mugger, but get over it! Be tough, learn how not to be the victim, take charge! Don't turn this into some public introspection on your future in the city. If you don't move to Detroit because of one incident, perhaps you aren't ready to return.

Actually, English, I wasn't talking to you.

I love that your brother asked about the demographics of the board. And questioned why you post there. That gives me just a little bit of insight as to your mindset, in not so many words. Sorry to hear that. Honestly, I have never, ever had a rational discourse with you, and never probably will, due to some obviously preconcieved notions about me and my viewpoints. So be it, as you say.

Actually, I think that you are a smart woman that has worked hard to get what she has in life. Try and not let things get to you.

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Originally Posted by LodgeDodger

Actually, Michigan and Stosh are spot-on.

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Great. Nice to know where you stand.

Honestly, I think that the appropriate response to me if I'm this awful, attention-seeking person would have been to just ignore the thread entirely.

Well, I shall lead by example. Good luck, and see folks on the other threads.

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Originally Posted by English

Great. Nice to know where you stand.

Honestly, I think that the appropriate response to me if I'm this awful, attention-seeking person would have been to just ignore the thread entirely.

Well, I shall lead by example. Good luck, and see folks on the other threads.

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Isn't that exactly what the poor young man on the PM did? He just got off and left, correct? The result for him was a thread on DY about how you could tell he was about to steal your purse and you could tell he was desperate and you could tell that he had nothing to lose. Well, at least I'm sure that you and your girlfriends had quite a story to tell the rest of the evening.

If i had a nickel for every time English reminded us that she has a PhD....

Well, I definitely regret starting this thread, and have issued an apology for doing so on Detroit Connections:
http://detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?p=132147 -- which is definitely my last word on this matter.

Darn, English, I hope my comments didn't contribute to your displeasure. I kind of like you. We've had disagreements in the past, but I find you to be a very intelligent and honest person, and I respect and appreciate that.

I thought Michigan brought up a good point. How did you know that this person was about to commit a crime? Has your time among a different culture of people changed the way you perceive people of your hometown culture?

The reason we come to this forum is to question others and to be questioned. If accusations made to you do not apply, please feel free to express why.

To address the main point of this thread, though, if this "imagined" attempted purse-snatching has caused you this much anxiety, then I wonder what traumatizing effect an actual crime would have on you?

In my experience, I feel like the preception of crime [[not actual, or even realized) escalated when the DPM route was changed from counter-clockwise, to clockwise. It really changed the overall feel of the DPM, possibly changing peoples perceptions, or at least their expectations.

Getting caught in the middle of a crime [[or falling victim) is more of a wrong place, wrong time, at least, from my past experiences. For example, say, I could be at a bad neighborhood in NW Detroit, and I would be fine, but go downtown for a drink or something like that and get mugged.
I'm sorry that this happened, but this has NOTHING to do with CBD or Detroit as a whole being bad, so don't find yourself scared coming back on the People Mover. Remember that these are tough times and people will do ANYTHING for money.

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Originally Posted by Motown Madman

Getting caught in the middle of a crime [[or falling victim) is more of a wrong place, wrong time, at least, from my past experiences. For example, say, I could be at a bad neighborhood in NW Detroit, and I would be fine, but go downtown for a drink or something like that and get mugged.
I'm sorry that this happened, but this has NOTHING to do with CBD or Detroit as a whole being bad, so don't find yourself scared coming back on the People Mover. Remember that these are tough times and people will do ANYTHING for money.

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Exactly. I am sorry you were frightened by an almost-mugging- the first time you have you eyes opened to your own vulnerabilities is a tough one. But really, just consider yourself lucky it has not happened before and learn to be more vigilant and you will learn to calm your fears.
I have worked down here for the past ten years and walked all over the place- through all different neighborhoods and seen all sorts of things, but I have never had anyone harm me. I have been called some pretty awful names because of my appearance, but nothing more. The only times I have ever had problems with random acts of violence was when I lived in the west side of the state where things are supposed to be so very provincial. I was mugged on the street, punched by a teenage thug, had my car broken into on several occasions, had my house broken into- both times while I was home. The potential for violence is everywhere, not just places with the reputation for it. Learn to protect yourself and live where you want to live.

Anyway...

English, if you have a few minutes, please attempt to give the police a heads up.

Crime Stoppers;

Phone; 1-800-SPEAK UP

Online form; http://www.1800speakup.org/

Text; 411

Hey, what stations did he get on and off at?