Brush Park: Why Has Work Stalled?

I think we all know that the economic & real estate crises have slowed development overall across the city. But city leaders made a huge push for Brush Park in the years before the Superbowl. Many of the slated renovations are still waiting to be completed while other structures are falling to the elements. I remember lots of positive writeups and news reports coming out of BP from 2002-2006. For instance, what is happening with the Brush Park Music Conservatory [[the banner still advertises "Coming Soon"), and Hip City Living which boasted of its many future renovations on now-tattered and vandalized signs in front of once-stately homes.

Why has work seemingly come to a total halt at Brush Park? What developments are still going? What is the future of Brush Park, with its proximity to downtown and approx. 3 future light rail stops? Will farms fill the vacant land, or homes? Or, will nothing change?

Expensive homes to renovate with very low returns

Yeah, and I'd not relish the idea of living in a nicely refurbished house, filled with cherished belongings with vacant land all around... it would be a "break-in" magnet! With thieves slippin into the darkness or worse. I'd not feel safe..... Not that densely populated area don't have b&e's, but it is really creepy around there at night. Too many houses have fallen, it may be too desolate to save, sadly...... there is a nice apartment that was renovated in thru there, but I cannot recall the name..........

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Originally Posted by wolverine

Expensive homes to renovate with very low returns

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Originally Posted by wolverine

Expensive homes to renovate with very low returns

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You would think that the returns would be better on historic homes like some that have been rehabilitated in Brush Park. Some of the most incredibly beautiful and ornate houses you'll see around.

I've seen more demolition in Brush Park then renovation or building. All of those mansions that were supposed to be renovated look as if that is never going to happen, especially the ones that were never started to begin with. Some are actually completely renovated and ready to move into, but there are no buyers. Brush Park is an extremely hard area to market to anyone. For one, only 25-30% of the neighborhood is probably filled with houses, many of those don't even have people living in them. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of vacant unmowed lots in the summer. I don't understand to this day why they put in brand new roads and lighting throughout Brush Park just to complement unmowed lots.

Michigan builders, at this point, are just trying to keep their businesses alive in this economy, if they still can. They have no interest in trying to rebuild areas of the city like Brush Park if they are just going to take huge losses on it, as many renovaters have already.

Many visitors to Detroit are stunned when they see Brush Park, beautiful mansions that would go for millions in other cities, that are standing vacant and wide open to the elements. Many people say to me that they are very surprised how Brush Park looks, with it's proximity to downtown. The truth is, the money that should have stayed there left for Indian Village, Boston-Edison, and then onto the suburbs long ago.

An opportunity missed, over and over again. While other cities rebuild, renovate, infill, incentivize, and market areas like Brush Park, we "improve" it by putting in nice new streets and then just leaving all of the houses sitting in unmowed vacant lots, open to trespass and crumbling into piles of bricks like a scene out of some end of the world movie. Hooray for the greening of Detroit!

It is like living in a half finished neighborhood in the suburbs. People only do live in half finished subs. when they are assured further development will happen. A single developer/builder or consortium would have to go into Brush Park and develop the entire district. But this isn't feasible at the time because of the facts: Detroit's real estate is not exactly "hot" and so the profit is there, like some people said already.

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Originally Posted by mikeg19

You would think that the returns would be better on historic homes like some that have been rehabilitated in Brush Park. Some of the most incredibly beautiful and ornate houses you'll see around.

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But beyond that, what else you got to sell me? The house with a history benefit is just a major selling point for one small slice of customers looking to buy a condo. For the rest its a nice benefit, only after they factor in their proximity to shopping, restaurants, bars, ....... neighbors, low crime, good schools, etc....

If you were right, there'd at least be one person in a metro of 5.5 million willing to pick up one of those houses since Superbowl XL. Each of them would be more marketable if they were somewhere else.

"No buyers"... Exactly, you'd have to be a real pioneer to live there isolated [[with obvious means - otherwise how are you there?), with your lights on, curtains drawn or not, alone [[in terms of others homes in proximity), car in the drive way. Forget about it.

Beautiful architecture aside, I'd need a sense of community and less desolation to feel connected, not just own my fortunate, unique house as a "neon" sign for negative attention ala thieves, etc. I think this area may be done... the door of opportunity closed.................

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Originally Posted by Traveller1

I've seen more demolition in Brush Park then renovation or building. All of those mansions that were supposed to be renovated look as if that is never going to happen, especially the ones that were never started to begin with. Some are actually completely renovated and ready to move into, but there are no buyers. Brush Park is an extremely hard area to market to anyone. For one, only 25-30% of the neighborhood is probably filled with houses, many of those don't even have people living in them. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of vacant unmowed lots in the summer. I don't understand to this day why they put in brand new roads and lighting throughout Brush Park just to complement unmowed lots.

Michigan builders, at this point, are just trying to keep their businesses alive in this economy, if they still can. They have no interest in trying to rebuild areas of the city like Brush Park if they are just going to take huge losses on it, as many renovaters have already.

Many visitors to Detroit are stunned when they see Brush Park, beautiful mansions that would go for millions in other cities, that are standing vacant and wide open to the elements. Many people say to me that they are very surprised how Brush Park looks, with it's proximity to downtown. The truth is, the money that should have stayed there left for Indian Village, Boston-Edison, and then onto the suburbs long ago.

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From the demand side, I agree with many of the previous posters. I think one of the biggest obstacles to Brush Park's revitalization is that there is really no neighborhood. Even using DetroitYes! traffic as one indicator, we occasionally see posters who are interested in purchasing a home in neighborhoods like Indian Village, Boston Edison, and East English village. When was the last time we saw anyone interested in moving into Brush Park?

Originally, I think some had visions of Crosswinds-like developments providing in-fill for much of the area, with the renovated historic mansions peppered throughout. Even in the best economic times, I think that such an idea would have been a challenge. Given the sharp economic downturn, it now seems nearly impossible. A quick look at zillow.com shows 32 homes for sale in the square block bounded by Woodward, Adelaide, John R, and Winder. Given such a high vacancy rate, I do not see further development anytime soon.

As some have said, living in Brush Park really requires a "pioneer" attitude, and not many people with the means to be pioneers have shown a desire to do so.

Crosswinds is sitting on homes that could be renovated if put on the market. There is one that I would love to renovate and call home. Crosswinds tried to put too many residents on one plot of land. Their condos that face the old alleys might sell better if they actually made them streets instead of walking paths.

I know a lot of folks on here want Brush Park to be dense like a New York City neighborhood. I think it should be rebuilt similar to how it was built over 100 years ago. Offer McMansion type housing or housing similar to those found in Cherry Hill in Canton. Put garages in the back and have narrow driveways to get to them. Maybe if homes are offered instead of condos, people with families might be more inclined to have a home built there.

What Crosswinds has done for the most part is awful. A different strategy needs to be implemented. I know, how about trying the one I just suggested? Living in Brush Park and the close proximity to downtown should make all the sense in the world. Why it's not is due to poor planning and poor marking. Also, the city shouldn't even try to rebuild the Brewster Projects. Demolish it and offer market rate homes in its place. That might improve Brush Park's chances.

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Originally Posted by DetroitTitan

It is like living in a half finished neighborhood in the suburbs. People only do live in half finished subs. when they are assured further development will happen. A single developer/builder or consortium would have to go into Brush Park and develop the entire district. But this isn't feasible at the time because of the facts: Detroit's real estate is not exactly "hot" and so the profit is there, like some people said already.

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Residential construction hs been pretty much halted all over the country. In the case of suburban subs, most developers construct them in "phases" so that if they have to halt for monetary reasons, the parts already built don't have too many vacant lots and a house here and a house there.

Whay work has stopped in Brush Park?

simple: RECESSION!

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Originally Posted by Danny

Whay work has stopped in Brush Park?

simple: RECESSION!

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and the auto industry woes
and the collapse of the housing bubble

and its all part of RECESSION.

Let's face it folks. Our government is BROKEN! even in Detroit and the rest of Michigan. How can we fix our government?

simple: DON'T VOTE REPUBLICAN THAT FORCES DEMOCRATS TO RAISE TAXES.

Once the light-rail tracks go in, I think we'll start to see this area begin to redevelop, once again. If the line begins operation in 2013, it means three years of smart developers getting in early.

There has been discussion on this thread about how living in Brush Park you feel isolated and alone. I think this is only true if you live in the blocks east of John R. I think this will continue to be true until all the blocks between Woodward and John R are filled in. Then the development will probably move to the next block, between John R and Brush, which right now is pretty barren... I wouldn't want to live there. But I'd defiantly live in the first block. Maybe a problem is how expensive the crosswinds condos are. Some of the apartments in the are are also expensive, the cheapest being ones by Loftplace.net, corner of Watson and John R.

I think the new grocery store on the corner of Watson and Woodward [[Ye Olde Butcher Shoppe) will help for sure. Hopefully it will attract new residents. I think the biggest market for residents is Wayne State U. graduate students, faculty and alumni as well as workers at the DMC and office workers downtown. That is over a hundred thousand people to market to. Once there is a light-rail, I really think things in Brush Park will begin to turn around.

In the mean time, most of the rest of Midtown will continue to develop. The fastest near WSU, the slowest near Downtown [[Cass Park/Brush Park).

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Originally Posted by casscorridor

Once the light-rail tracks go in, I think we'll start to see this area begin to redevelop, once again. If the line begins operation in 2013, it means three years of smart developers getting in early.

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That was the same line they were using to sell condos back in 2003-04ish. At every one of those Illuminate Detroits, someone would run the spiel about how light rail was going to go in on Woodward "really soon" and once that happens the area would just EXPLODE! Ten years is a little long to be flogging that meme.

"Once the light-rail tracks go in, I think we'll start to see this area begin to redevelop, once again. If the line begins operation in 2013, it means three years of smart developers getting in early."

Not going to happen in 30 years. Too much bureaucratic talk and paperwork. There are talks about having DARTA for public transit years ago but it now its DEAD!

What other happy talk that polticians want for our American People? NOTHING, NO RESULTS! Citizens, start your own social government and leave the broken government of the Unites States alone and let it dissolve. Our result will be a new U.S. Government with a stronger anti-Republican, anti-Communist regime; filled with socialist reform, stricter rules and powerful union force that can strike. Democrats in both Houses of Congress and Representatives will be dominate force in U.S. Government that will cut global trade, provide American jobs to export more goods to foreign nations. Elimination of plutocracy made corporate franchises and restoration of family owned businesses. No one goes hungery and no one will go without proper medical and dental care. No one will be rich over million dollars. All resources will be produced by the state social proletariats of the people.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Change this nation for Neda Soltani's sake.

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Originally Posted by royce

Crosswinds is sitting on homes that could be renovated if put on the market. There is one that I would love to renovate and call home. Crosswinds tried to put too many residents on one plot of land. Their condos that face the old alleys might sell better if they actually made them streets instead of walking paths.

I know a lot of folks on here want Brush Park to be dense like a New York City neighborhood. I think it should be rebuilt similar to how it was built over 100 years ago. Offer McMansion type housing or housing similar to those found in Cherry Hill in Canton. Put garages in the back and have narrow driveways to get to them. Maybe if homes are offered instead of condos, people with families might be more inclined to have a home built there.

What Crosswinds has done for the most part is awful. A different strategy needs to be implemented. I know, how about trying the one I just suggested? Living in Brush Park and the close proximity to downtown should make all the sense in the world. Why it's not is due to poor planning and poor marking. Also, the city shouldn't even try to rebuild the Brewster Projects. Demolish it and offer market rate homes in its place. That might improve Brush Park's chances.

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Brush Park will never be viable as a single family per structure neighborhood. As someone said above, it's too expensive to rehabilitate one of those structures for such a little return, which is what would happen if you try to sell them as individual dwellings.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

"No buyers"... Exactly, you'd have to be a real pioneer to live there isolated [[with obvious means - otherwise how are you there?), with your lights on, curtains drawn or not, alone [[in terms of others homes in proximity), car in the drive way. Forget about it.

Beautiful architecture aside, I'd need a sense of community and less desolation to feel connected, not just own my fortunate, unique house as a "neon" sign for negative attention ala thieves, etc. I think this area may be done... the door of opportunity closed.................

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I guess I didn't think of it that way. It's probably been 5 years since I actually drove through Brush Park. I have not actually seen how open it is.

I can see BP really capitalizing on its emptiness by converting the vacant land to pastures & farms. It would be a really unique urban-rural neighborhood just footsteps from downtown, peppered with historic mansions and top-notch rehabilitations. I don't think BP needs to necessarily attract more development, it just needs to market its 'state of decay' as an asset. I am thinking of the great farmer's mansion in the dreamlike Terrence Mallick film Days of Heaven...

http://www.scribeoflight.org/erhebun...ststills01.jpg

Street lighting & regular patrols could prevent break-ins, and demolishing the Brewster Projects would help drive out the criminals, vagrants, and squatters.

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Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

I can see BP really capitalizing on its emptiness by converting the vacant land to pastures & farms. It would be a really unique urban-rural neighborhood just footsteps from downtown, peppered with historic mansions and top-notch rehabilitations. I don't think BP needs to necessarily attract more development, it just needs to market its 'state of decay' as an asset. I am thinking of the great farmer's mansion in the dreamlike Terrence Mallick film Days of Heaven...

Street lighting & regular patrols could prevent break-ins, and demolishing the Brewster Projects would help drive out the criminals, vagrants, and squatters.

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Yeah and demolish the bridges over the Chrysler and the Lodge and reserve the central city for the arts, music, and culture elites.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Yeah and demolish the bridges over the Chrysler and the Lodge and reserve the central city for the arts, music, and culture elites.

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I never said anything about elites living there. Usually farmers are in the lower- to middle-income bracket anyway.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Yeah and demolish the bridges over the Chrysler and the Lodge and reserve the central city for the arts, music, and culture elites.

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Better yet, close off the freeway loop around Midtown and fill it with water. Do the same for Downtown. Boom... moat!

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Originally Posted by Danny

and its all part of RECESSION.


simple: DON'T VOTE REPUBLICAN THAT FORCES DEMOCRATS TO RAISE TAXES.

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i just spit diet mt. dew all over my laptop screen laughing!!!!!! [[actually, it came out of my nose!!!)

It's hard to be an attractive neighborhood when there are safer and less expensive options close by. This area needed to be saved in its entirety. Not just bits and pieces. The massive parking expansive on the west side of Woodward and the lack of local commercial activity doesn’t necessarily say “neighborhood”.

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Originally Posted by Russix

It's hard to be an attractive neighborhood when there are safer and less expensive options close by. This area needed to be saved in its entirety. Not just bits and pieces. The massive parking expansive on the west side of Woodward and the lack of local commercial activity doesn’t necessarily say “neighborhood�.

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How unsafe can Brush Park be if there aren't many people living there? Clearly leaving your car on the street like during a Tiger game is inviting a car break in. However, if you have a garage and a good security system on your home, I don't see you necessarily becoming a target for home break-ins. There are people that actually have been living in Brush Park for years and they're still there. They wouldn't still be there if crime was that bad.

I agree that the prospect of light-rail might jump start new housing development in Brush Park. Also, I agree that those large parking lots on the westside of Woodward are definitely a drawback to development. However, those property owners have no incentive to sell their land to a developer or to the city when they can make beaucoup dollars from parking during Tigers and Lions games and other big Fox Theater events.

The city needs to use the current vacant lots that in owns on the eastside of Woodward in Brush Park, and offer really cheap parking for a few years. Then maybe those parking lots on the westside of Woodward can be bought up. Eventually some parking structures will have to be built to accommodate parking for cars. In the future, if light rail gets beyond the city, maybe fans coming to the games will choose to ride the rail instead of driving all the way downtown. This will solve the parking problem.

There really is no excuse that Brush Park should look like it does. The recession is still a big issue. However, once it is over, there is no excuse for Brush Park to not become a premier housing and commericial development in the city.

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Originally Posted by royce

How unsafe can Brush Park be if there aren't many people living there?
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Safety is more of a perception than a reality. I would even argue that the crime rate is lower in Brush Park than around WSU or Woodbridge. The emptiness is not perceived as a safety improvement, it makes it look vastly more dangerous. Like something that tells your instincts that you shouldn’t be here. Considering what the place use to be like in the 90’s, I’m not surprised anyone gets a bad feeling walking though there after dark.

Or even "driving" thru there at night is an adventure..... doors locked of course.

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Originally Posted by Russix

Safety is more of a perception than a reality. I would even argue that the crime rate is lower in Brush Park than around WSU or Woodbridge. The emptiness is not perceived as a safety improvement, it makes it look vastly more dangerous. Like something that tells your instincts that you shouldn’t be here. Considering what the place use to be like in the 90’s, I’m not surprised anyone gets a bad feeling walking though there after dark.

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I'd say this thread is a prime candidate for "Spot The Cockpuncher", but really....it's just another example of DumfuckistanYes.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...ing-homeowners

Here are some reasons why development in Brush Park has stalled - just like development across the entire god-damn state and most of the nation has stalled and remains stalled.

In case gsgeorge has notice, there has been a complete collapse in the US housing market and the neighborhoods thas were the most tenuous are the one most hard hit.

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Michigan's average home prices have declined about 30 percent since early 2008, Townley said.

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Townley said about 177,000 Michigan households are at least one month behind in their mortgage payments, meaning they face possible foreclosure.

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"We're sure grateful that the Obama administration continues to recognize the many challenges facing Michigan," she said. "It is going to be very beneficial to families who are really struggling with potentially losing their homes."

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"We're sure grateful that the Obama administration continues to recognize the many challenges facing Michigan," she said. "It is going to be very beneficial to families who are really struggling with potentially losing their homes."


recognizing the problem and actually having a plan that works are two different things... but I'm at least glad that the president has finally gotten up to speed and "recognized" there is a problem....

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Or even "driving" thru there at night is an adventure..... doors locked of course.

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Seriously? This is ridiculous...

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Originally Posted by PQZ

I'd say this thread is a prime candidate for "Spot The Cockpuncher", but really....it's just another example of DumfuckistanYes.

Here are some reasons why development in Brush Park has stalled - just like development across the entire god-damn state and most of the nation has stalled and remains stalled.

In case gsgeorge has notice, there has been a complete collapse in the US housing market and the neighborhoods thas were the most tenuous are the one most hard hit.

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PQZ, you are quick to play know-it-all, but if you had more than a 4-second attention span you would have noticed that I opened my thread with this sentence:

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I think we all know that the economic & real estate crises have slowed development overall across the city.

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In the summer I bike through there sometimes, during the day and at night, to and from Downtown. But usually down John R. It is also a good alternative to riding on Woodward, which is dangerous because of all the cars. I don't really like going on Brush. My friend got pushed off his bike by two teenagers and almost got his laptop stolen before getting away, and it is out of the way for me anyhow. I don't think this it is dangerous to bike through at all, but I wouldn't really want to walk at night unless it was that populated section next to Woodward and 75.

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Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

PQZ, you are quick to play know-it-all, but if you had more than a 4-second attention span you would have noticed that I opened my thread with this sentence:
I think we all know that the economic & real estate crises have slowed development overall across the city.

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Well, didn't you answer your own question then?

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Originally Posted by bailey

Well, didn't you answer your own question then?

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No. Read my first post.

The CoD made a huge push for Brush Park for a long time, since the late nineties really, making a bigger deal about it than even Midtown or New Center. Despite the recession, moderate development continues in Midtown, New Center, and even smaller areas like Corktown and Woodbridge. Development in Brush Park seemed to come to a halt right after the Superbowl, even before the housing collapse really set in. No doubt the crisis has slowed things down, but with development happening elsewhere inside the freeway loop, and Brush Park so close to the CBD, what's the deal? SOME forumers have provided some valuable insight on why work is stalled there. Others love to nitpick and try to make people look like idiots. Ah, I love Detroit.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Or even "driving" thru there at night is an adventure..... doors locked of course.

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Considering I've parked on John R for Tigers games probably 150 times without incident [[and no, my car was never broken into, although it was twice on Washington Blvd. in front of the Statler), this is a major exaggeration. The bogey man is not hiding in the bushes waiting for someone to come along. There are so few people in Brush Park right now that it would be pointless for robbers to hang out there waiting. The worst you'll come across is a homeless guy asking for change.

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Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

SOME forumers have provided some valuable insight on why work is stalled there. Others love to nitpick and try to make people look like idiots. Ah, I love Detroit.

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Gsgeorge: It isn't Detroit that is rubbing you the wrong way, it is the internet. If this was a forum for Catholic nuns, you would probably get the same snarkiness.

the market collapsed just as a lot of the new units in brush park were coming online. many developers went under as a result [[see carlton building, edmund place, harbor lights center, etc.). i have even heard rumors of a possible crosswinds bankruptcy [[anybody else hear this/can back it up?).

as a result of the status of developers and the collapse of the housing market, many units are available due to foreclosures and/or reposessions. this includes condos in the garden lofts building, the carlton, and all styles of crosswinds townhomes. some renovated and new units have never been occupied. the crystal lofts condos even switched over to rentals. ergo no demand, no further development, regardless of who wants it to happen.

however, there is currently development going on. 9 new townhomes have been completed recently at the brush park north development, 4 renovated condos just completed at the mack in brush park, with another 5 renovated condos beginiing shortly. on the commercial side, there's the re-renovation of zaccarro's and MSU recently moving into a building on woodward. arguably, brush park is seeing more development than most neighborhoods in the city.

so you may be looking for more, but the primary reason new developments aren't happening is because of the housing market collapse and economy.

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Despite the recession, moderate development continues in Midtown, New Center, and even smaller areas like Corktown and Woodbridge.

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Aside from some small mom and pop style retailers and very small interstitial projects, what little activity is in Midtown, Corktown, New Center and Woodbridge is either is being driven by WSU or is the completion of projects 2- 4 years behind schedule. I think its quite a stretch to say that moderate development continues. I would characterize it as nominal, especially where ther is no other meaningful development happening elsewhere in the City.

Indeed, as RSA points out, there seems to be MORE development projects in Brush Park than in other neighborhoods.

And I don't have to try to make people look like idiots. They generally do a good job on their own.

Well, when you can now buy a place for 94K that orginally sold for 450K in 2004...you've got big problems.

http://www.moveinmichigan.com/Searchdetails.aspx?ListingTag=41F97EE1F6044512509e b60d29&UserId=

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Originally Posted by downandouterdrive

Well, when you can now buy a place for 94K that orginally sold for 450K in 2004...you've got big problems.

http://www.moveinmichigan.com/Searchdetails.aspx?ListingTag=41F97EE1F6044512509e b60d29&UserId=

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Not a bad deal is you have a lot of money and don't have to work or you have a good paying job to support $13k in TAXES a year. Still, paying taxes to support a corrupt city council and school system?

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Originally Posted by jbd441

Not a bad deal is you have a lot of money and don't have to work or you have a good paying job to support $13k in TAXES a year. Still, paying taxes to support a corrupt city council and school system?

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13K in taxes for a 94K condo?

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Originally Posted by Hermod

13K in taxes for a 94K condo?

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It's not based on the sale price of 94k, it's based upon the $450,000 value. This value puts the SEV at around 225,000 which makes the yearly taxes about $14,000 per year.

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Originally Posted by Route29

Brush Park is extremely desolate, even by Detroit standards. The people who are willing to continue to live or relocate to Detroit are going to opt for a denser, more vibrant neighborhood with more retail and residential.
If you look at the successful neighborhoods of the City they include either completely contiguous residential or a combination of residential and commerical [[Midtown and Southwest). There is way, way too much prairie and too few occupied structures in Brush Park to make it resemble a "neighborhood". Even the most intrepid urban pioneers are going to opt for a more viable alternative. It would be a pipe dream to fill all that vacant land with infill, even in the best of times.

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Even though I agree that most would look to a more vibrant neighborhood, but I think you are over-exaggerating the amount of vacant land there really is. Although yes, the is a huge amount of empty land. There aren't that many blocks in Brush Park. The entire neighborhood isn't even a square mile large. I wouldn't call it a pipedream to completely redevelop [[fill all the land) the neighborhood. This is a very small area compared to the east side prairies. The area could be filled in within a decade if the cards were all played right.

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Originally Posted by Strathcona

It's not based on the sale price of 94k, it's based upon the $450,000 value. This value puts the SEV at around 225,000 which makes the yearly taxes about $14,000 per year.

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Still, that is 6.2% of SEV a year.

I won't complain about my 1.8% city and county combined.

How can you attract new homeowners with a tax rate like that?

.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Still, that is 6.2% of SEV a year.

I won't complain about my 1.8% city and county combined.

How can you attract new homeowners with a tax rate like that?

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They can't. These properties were given NEZ property tax breaks when they were renovated. The NEZ program lowers tax rates on new and newly renovated properties in the city for 12-15 years. There should still be some time left on the NEZ. The problem with the NEZ tax break is it only masks the high tax problem, it doesn't cure it. The only way to sell new and major renovations in the city is with the NEZ.

The 11K tax figure is wrong in that listing. That is an NEZ property that the idiot owner never filed with the city. The taxes on that place are less than 1K per year.

I've been keeping an eye on Brush Park for the last 20 years, on foot and in the car, and it seems that the biggest enemy that part of town fights is the city government and Crosswinds Condos, not crime and vacant land. When Crosswinds decided to build their condos there, they argued that they couldn't get maximized property values with the existing homes in place. Within a few years, dozens of occupied and salvagable vacancies bit the dust. The condos are pieces of crap, which is why nobody buys them, and no one is going to buy a 750 sqft piece of crap for 200k when you can buy a 2500 sqft gem for under 100k.

^^^^Agreed!!! That and we now have townhomes where mid-rise buildings should be.

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Originally Posted by wolverine

But beyond that, what else you got to sell me? The house with a history benefit is just a major selling point for one small slice of customers looking to buy a condo. For the rest its a nice benefit, only after they factor in their proximity to shopping, restaurants, bars, ....... neighbors, low crime, good schools, etc....

If you were right, there'd at least be one person in a metro of 5.5 million willing to pick up one of those houses since Superbowl XL. Each of them would be more marketable if they were somewhere else.

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And let's not forget the primary reason for lack of renovation and sells. The big E aka economy. There really isn't anything in Detroit anymore. Detroit was what it was because of the auto industry that brought people from all over the country and immigrants here to work. That is what made Detroit a major city. When the majority of business left related to racism, exodus to the suburbs, crime etc. Detroit pretty much turned into a desolate city. And we can't forget about the shitty politics back in Michigan.

Those homes are for a niche market. A very small one. If you don't have things around you to survive in a major city, it's fruitless. You know, stores near you, a solid transit etc. people won't stay long. There has got to be something there to make the city thrive/alive to make them want to stay.

As a life long Detroiter I never, ever drive with doors unlocked. Nope. They stay "locked" in the burbs too... I know women who'd had their doors opened and purses grabbed at stop lights. I don't need that.... caution is best.

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Originally Posted by drjeff

Considering I've parked on John R for Tigers games probably 150 times without incident [[and no, my car was never broken into, although it was twice on Washington Blvd. in front of the Statler), this is a major exaggeration. The bogey man is not hiding in the bushes waiting for someone to come along. There are so few people in Brush Park right now that it would be pointless for robbers to hang out there waiting. The worst you'll come across is a homeless guy asking for change.

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Friday night I drove around thru there.... up an down Edmund, Alfred, John R. the back side of the Crosswinds by Woodward etc. Many of the Brush houses I recall a decade or so are gone. More empty lots and some homes on the the more populated streets have full bars on the first floor windows and doors. There's one isolated refurbed house with huge bright spotlights shining on it from the front yard, sitting... not sure what that was about?

I did not realize how close the abandoned Brewster projects where to Brush park, I drove around there too... an eye sore indeed and the more creepy end of the area. One thing that stood out was the Edmunds Place restaurant! It is still in business...and the restoration on this beautiful building is outstanding. I noted the tattered "coming soon" etc signs on other buildings... but it is apparent work has been halted.......

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Originally Posted by mikeg19

I guess I didn't think of it that way. It's probably been 5 years since I actually drove through Brush Park. I have not actually seen how open it is.

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This thread is so typical of Dyes threads - it's myopic. Your favorite Victorian house in Brush Park is not being renovated, so nothing is [[or ever has been) done there. The same is true of the Lafayette Building threads - you suddenly show interest in something, and then it's emblematic. Ahem.

You can correct my history [[I got here in the late 1970s), [[historic) Brush Park has not, within the lifetime of anyone on DetroitYes, been a desirable neighborhood - having been abandoned by two different groups before becoming a working-class tenement area around [[or after WWII). As such, I think it's fair to say that Brush Park [[at least what's left now) has been in decline longer than it has existed.

One problem is demand writ large - and the other is demand for houses that cost more to reconstruct [[yes, reconstruct, not renovate) than they would be ever be worth, subsidies and tax breaks notwithstanding. That's not an economically sustainable model - and probably precisely the reason that most of you [[DetroitYes people) are not dumping your life savings into restoring the old Victorians. You want someone else to take that loss. Sorry you're not finding any takers.

And when you look at what they will ever be worth, consider that the location bordered by two freeways [[I-75N and I-75S) and a seven-lane road [[Woodward) is not tremendous. And that's to say nothing of the horrendous neighborhood that surrounds and includes the former Brewster Projects [[follow the I-75S service drive to its end point if you want a really good look). The fact that the Brewster Projects ended up there is a good indicator of how bad the neighborhood was by the 1950s.

Are the Crosswinds condos the best-looking option? Probably not, given the new condos nearer to Brush & I-75. Even Crosswinds did some nicer ones in Dearborn off Michigan, behind the Starbucks. But they were what the market could bear at the time. They're not bad, nor are they the best. Has the pace been slow? Yes. But if you can't sell the units, how are you supposed to get a bank to finance more?

Are they appropriate in scale? Yes. This was never a mid-rise neighborhood, except in a couple of apartment buildings that became hellholes over the decades [[well, at least until they were gutted and renovated recently). Remember that the former Motown Building was the sole structure over two stories on the north side of Vernor Highway [[now I-75).

I think in sum, Brush Park is adequately bookended by restored historic buildings and that if someone came in with a proposal to in-fill all the gaps with something that was at least historically compatible and economically viable, I would clear-cut the remaining dis-occupied Victorians in a second. Go up to Ferry east John R if you want to see some nice infills. As someone pointed out, people want to live in a "complete" neighborhood, not one with random decaying structures. We should be respectful of history - but not to the point where we have no future. And what is new now, if done right, will be historic in the future.

Some further points for thought:

1. If people in their peak earning [[and taxpaying) years very often have families, why would we ever want multi-unit developments that peak out at or under 1,500 square feet? The economics in Detroit [[and I have asked several developers about this) do not support multi-unit dwellings above that size.

2. Why do people agitate for multistory construction on Woodward where it never existed? That's not exactly being historically-minded.

3. Is clear-cutting and rebuilding the Brewster neighborhood an idea whose time has come? Political implications aside, Lafayette Park [[Detroit's most notable neighborhood to the outside world) benefited greatly from the ability to build from the ground up - and is one of Detroit's most stable neighborhoods. And if you look at the values of the Mies townhouses [[witness the courtyard houses routinely selling at $2K a sf), they're among the highest per unit size in the city.

4. And on the "intermediate" solutions - having been a spectator on various in-fill and gradual replacement projects over the better part of a decade, I can only offer the observation that these either don't get finished or they don't get done in a way that really makes anyone happy. Maybe we need to understand that eventually you hit a tipping point where a historic neighborhood is no longer defined by the historic structures. I give the people who decided to try to save Brush park in the late 80s/early 90s credit for at least trying to reconstruct a neighborhood that was not otherwise coming back - and getting a lot of the job done.