become a christian. Don't have a link, but if he said it I sure word will get around.
Printable View
become a christian. Don't have a link, but if he said it I sure word will get around.
hume is a small-minded asswipe. who cares?
Put Hume and Dennis Miller in a bag, and you got two farts in a bag.
Brit Hume...that his real hair? He in the closet?
Obviously a lot of anti-Christian sentiment here.
Hume did a good job of hiding his Christianity while he was a journalist.
Now as a commentator, he isn't under those ethical considerations.
Religion is bunk.
Hume forecasts Woods will recover as a golfer but
...Whether he can recover as a person depends on "his faith. He's said to be a Buddhist. I don't think that faith offers the kind of forgiveness and redemption that is offered by the Christian faith. So my message to Tiger would be, "Tiger, turn to the Christian faith and you can make a total recovery and be a great example to the world."
[And how many news reports are about Buddhists cheating on their wives? Christians tell me that if you cheat on your wife, you're really not a Christian no matter how many times you've gone to church or been baptized. Then there are the other Christians who believe that all their sins including their future ones have already been forgiven and all they have to do is believe in Jesus to go to heaven. Sounds like Hume is in the latter group.]
Yes, I'm sure imaginary friends and fairy tales will make Tiger a better person.
Is Britt still relevant?
Who cares what a washed up news anchor has to say?
Quote: "After all-- to a chirstianist a dead son is preferable to a gay one."
You are a very sick individual, you probably know that already, but I thought I would just reiterate it for you. Get some help. To even consider something like that and then publicly post your deranged twisted venom, speaks volumes.
"I don't think that faith [Buddhism] offers the kind of forgiveness and redemption that is offered by the Christian faith."
-B. Hume
"My God has a bigger dick than your God."
-G. Carlin
I just wonder how long a thread devoted to aspersions about Judaism, Blacks, Gays or any other group would last here? In fairness it's no different than a Nazi skin head blog in that regard, that some of you cringe at the thought of. Hate and venom towards any peoples is wrong.
What in the offending post isn't true?
would you like to discuss the christian values of the families that disown their children if they come out? Should we talk about the amount of gay and lesbian children, teenagers and young adults that are homeless because their god loving families kick them out of the home to fend for themselves? Should we talk about gay and lesbian suicide rates in people with ultra religious home lives?Should we discuss American christianist support of Uganda's "kill the gays" bill...lest you think I'm being dramatic, the bill calls for the execution of any gay person with HIV and the life long incarceration [[which is just a slower execution) of anyone known or thought to be gay? Or should we talk about Brit's buddy Newt Gingrich and his leaking a story about Sandy Hume and Sen Paxton being lovers as retribution for an attempted intra-party coup?
Take one tidbit of information and apply it to a multitude. The foundation of all bigotry. Your ignorance warrants no other reply.
Do you have any reputable news source for your Gingrich allegation [[and not loony left blogs)? I suppose Hume's suicide could have nothing to do with his being an alcoholic who resumed drinking, got cited and arrested for a DUI while driving 75 mph in a 45 zone, attempted suicide while in jail and later succeeded at home with a gun.
Quote: "So...in other words, denigration of religion is ok as long as it's not your religion?"
You seem a bit thick, I'm reacting to this: "to a christianist a dead son is preferable to a gay one."
Care to validate this statement? And please no bullshit articles. Reveal your credible source that leads you to believe that Christianity is even remotely like that. In your all knowing community college way of thinking, to say something so hateful, you must have something concrete to base it on. Or is it just ignorance and bias? I know the answer.
The same sources that for years discussed larry craig, mark foley, charlie christ, roy cohn....
Or, how about just Joe Scarborough? I know the article iis from the Huffington Post, but does that make Scarborough's story untrue?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-..._b_256428.htmlQuote:
"Hume's death represented an opportunity for revenge for some in the Armey camp," writes Scarborough, who recounted a phone inquiry from a Wall Street Journal reporter. "Someone in Dick Armey's office just told me that Sandy got the coup story by having a gay affair with Bill Paxon. Both knew the story was coming out and that's why Paxon resigned and why Sandy killed himself," said the reporter.
Did he start drinking again because he was an alcoholic? or because someone was going to out him? or because the simple RUMOR of being gay would destroy him? which would be worse for his career at fox news...gay or a dui?
http://www.godhatesfags.com/
or...lets wander on down to the Southern Poverty Law Center's Designated "hate groups".
Alliance Defense Fund
American Family Association
American Vision*
Chalcedon Foundation*
Christian Action Network
Concerned Women for America
Coral Ridge Ministries/Center for Reclaiming America
Family Research Council
Family Research Institute*
Focus on the Family
Summit Ministries
Traditional Values Coalition
Or.. my personal favorite.... http://americansfortruth.com/
and of course, how could we forget.....http://www.manhattandeclaration.org/
No, something that isn't vitriol from left wing nutjobs. Anything? Didn't think so.
Show me where any Christian would rather see their gay son dead. You said it, back it up.
"Law center" my ass. If they are sponsoring hatred they are just more of the same.
Quote: "Did he start drinking again because he was an alcoholic? or because someone was going to out him? or because the simple RUMOR of being gay would destroy him? which would be worse for his career at fox news...gay or a dui?"
Nobody knows and that includes you, for you to claim to know simply makes you a liar.
These liberals can be so tight pantied, another oxymoron. No pun intended.
. I gave you 15 websites as examples....sadly it was hardly an exhaustive listQuote:
No, something that isn't vitriol from left wing nutjobs. Anything? Didn't think so
I didn't say christian, I said christianist.Quote:
Show me where any Christian would rather see their gay son dead. You said it, back it up.
.Quote:
"Law center" my ass. If they are sponsoring hatred they are just more of the same
How about you look up the SLPC before you post nonsensical responses?
The funniest part is that you apparently have no problem with the Westboro Baptists, but the SLPC is "sponsoring hatred". wow.
for people who seemingly are completely uninterested in Britt Hume, you sure are spending a lot of your life worrying about what he might have said about someone else you don't care about.
Quote: "The funniest part is that you apparently have no problem with the Westboro Baptists, but the SLPC is "sponsoring hatred"
Even funnier, the majority of these groups you mention, I have no knowledge of. Sure they aren't just whackjobs the "News" uses to defame Chritianity? Do you know how many Christian based initiatives and Churches there are? More than your sophomoric list of 20. Not a drop in the bucket.
Gnome, excellent point.. as always.
The things you have no knowledge of appears to be vast.Quote:
Even funnier, the majority of these groups you mention, I have no knowledge of.
yes. clearly. only someone willfully blind to simple fact would argue otherwise. The groups noted [[and the 200+ religious signatories to the manifesto) are clearly real, demonstrably real, and all claim to be christian based organizations.Quote:
Sure they aren't just whackjobs the "News" uses to defame Chritianity?
you asked for one example...but now 20 is not enough.Quote:
Do you know how many Christian based initiatives and Churches there are? More than your sophomoric list of 20. Not a drop in the bucket.
I don't give two shits what Brit Hume thinks. I care more about the sanity of America. And having witnessed close up and personal the predudices of so called "christians", I feel it's worth a mention. These groups above are just the tip of the iceberg. Trust me.
There are lots of groups that don't give public voice in the matter. I will give those listed in the group above credit. They have the balls to say publicly what the majority of fundies say privately. That does not make it right, it's what is taught.
And what is taught is the narrow interpretation of the Bible, the usual abomination stuff. It's their lives, and afterlife, if beliefs are taken into account. I say that's between themselves and their God, if there is one. And using sexual preferences for political purposes is wrong, as long as it's within the confines of their bedroom, who cares?
I said show me where the general attitude of Christians is that they would rather see their son dead, than gay, as you claimed in your original post.
I know it's a lie, you know it's a lie.
I believe I can shed some light on this. Observe:
http://www.sidecarsally.com/images/gaystates.jpg
http://www.sidecarsally.com/images/cousinstates.jpg
Conclusion: Too many backwater hillbillies are fucking their cousins, and having children with brains so deformed they think they should have a say in how other people live, even if their own rights aren't being infringed upon.
And what do first cousins have to do the Britt Hume? Really JL, besides the thin coating of smarm, what do you see in Britt Hume's alleged comments that show he is in favor of dicking his first cousin?
And why do you give a hoot about Britt Hume anyway? Never been high on your radar before, why now? Because he gave some advice about forgiveness? From the sound of things, Britt has a lot to ask forgiveness for, wishing that his son commit suicide and all, so maybe Britt has a little experience in a forgiveness department. Maybe all that asking forgiveness gave him the power to get out of bed in the morning. Maybe in the light of heart-stopping pain Britt found something outside of himself and wanted to impart that to another man in pain.
That certainly deserves smarm delivered with both barrels topped by a healthy overdose of accusation, rumor and blind generalization.
Oh, that explains so much.
Attachment 4681
I was answering Stosh's question that I quoted, not talking about this Brit Hume character.
yes more threads about legos and abandoned theaters please.
Attachment 4687
so do those states that allow both gay marriage and 1st cousin marriage allow gay first cousin marriage? That would make for interesting family reunions
It's like when they get divorced, is she still your sister...
I'll never understand "Atheism". They claim to not believe in something and at the same time cannot shut up about it, or pass up an opportunity to take a juvenile swipe at it. If I don't believe in something the last f*cking thing I want to do is discuss my disbelief, If one were to mention the Lochness monster around me, I'd simply cut my eyes on them and walk away.
There is more to their rhetoric than simple disbelief. They have an agenda. They actually research their refusal to believe, they have lists and sources cocked and loaded ready to support their disbelief argument, that they always start incidentally.
I think the real quarrel is with themselves. They know the truth.
What do you not believe in that you'd like to discuss and have a heated debate about, and spend time researching?
Atheists are treated as second class citizens in this country. dubya's daddy and others in the religious right have said we shouldn't be considered citizens. We are constantly being bombarded with state-sponsored religious bullshit, including things like the parsonage exemption [[and tax-exempt status for churches in any sense), "in god we trust" as the national motto [[only since the Joe McCarthy/John Birch Society hayday) the nutjobs trying to pass "intelligent design" off as science rather than the thinly veiled judeo-xtian bullshit, and forcing it to be taught in science classes. Religious zealots tend to argue that all the other religions are nutty -- and never look at how absurd their own is.
Religion is now and always has been an attack on reason
I'm not an athiest; 'agnostic' would best describe me. However, I always have to smile when I hear the old argument, "If God created the heaven and the earth, then who created God?"
Quote: "Is anyone on this thread debating atheism or is that just what the voices in your head are talking about today?"
I don't know, but have you ever offered a post here where you weren't trying to insult or belittle someone? No wonder so few posts here. Not everybody is as big an Ahole as I am and know how to deal with people like you. They just won't bother. Congratulations troll.
Atheist's think their persecuted, Christians think they are, and Muslims think their unfairly treated. It seems whatever your beliefs are, you feel your persecuted by everybody else. People tend to see what they want, whether its true is another matter.
I see no persecution of Atheism. I do see Atheists getting their knickers in a twist because someone may be expressing a belief that they don't agree with. Reference ACLU. They give one the idea that they might just be a bit narrow minded and bigoted. Their way or the highway. They just provide fuel for the religious hand wringers. They aren't bothering folks like myself one bit. They want to protest? That's their right. They want to get in my realm and spout shit, they can expect it back.
The answer: Death Panels. It's the only affordable option.
Elganned, Right again..
I don't believe in Athiests. And the Christian faith is the most whiny bunch I've seen in my life. I don't hear all that BS from Buddists or Hindus. Nope. Just the Christians. And they will be the majority religion for the rest of my life at the very least. Note to them: Quit whining for Christ's sake.
And I didn't know that we had elected you king, SStashmoo. Your realm? :D
realm
1. A community or territory over which a sovereign rules; a kingdom.
2. A field, sphere, or province: the realm of science.
We each have our own "realm" we are in charge of, if you don't, that must suck.
Christianity is the only religion under attack in this country, period. It doesn't change my view any on it. Comedians aren't making fun of Buddhists or Islam. Christianity in the media is never shown in a positive light, matter of fact it is portrayed that anyone involved is obviously mentally ill, a psycho, someone to look out for.
Someday you'll figure out why. Maybe not.
I can't see where any of the above applies to you. You are not a sovereign, nor a scientist. I suppose then my realm is keeping you grounded in reality? Must really suck then... :pQuote:
1. A community or territory over which a sovereign rules; a kingdom.
2. A field, sphere, or province: the realm of science.
We each have our own "realm" we are in charge of, if you don't, that must suck.
I already know why. Because they are whiny. It is never shown in a popular light strictly because of the nutjobs that are whiny. Same as Islam is under attack for it's extremism. But you seem to ignore THAT... wonder why? Just convenience, to make your little point about the Christian faith.Quote:
Christianity is the only religion under attack in this country, period. It doesn't change my view any on it. Comedians aren't making fun of Buddhists or Islam. Christianity in the media is never shown in a positive light, matter of fact it is portrayed that anyone involved is obviously mentally ill, a psycho, someone to look out for.
Someday you'll figure out why. Maybe not.
I'm appalled by some of the homophobic and biased crap coming out of the mouths and keyboards of so-called Christians. What happened to "turn the other cheek?" Try some of the actual teachings of Christ. It might come in handy someday.
Quote: "Try some of the actual teachings of Christ. It might come in handy someday."
You really wanna do this? Your keyboard is writing checks your little mind can't cover. Know that.
Moo, there is a church on every corner and you feel attacked because of something in the media? If you are as secure in your beliefs as you say, then that shouldn't bother you.
Honestly.... you are so full of yourself. And full of IT. Go for it. Any time. My little mind? Don't make me laugh. At least I know how to use the quote function on a message board. And no Old Testament quotes. Just Christ's teachings. You know.. tolerance. Forgiveness, that kind of stuff. His actual words. Not yours. Then and only then can you actually prove to me and justify the venom you spew about others.
One of my favorite websites is http://www.thewords.com/
The words of Jesus, unfiltered. From Page 9 of this website:
http://www.thewords.com/thewords/page9.htmQuote:
Let the second commandment then be: love your neighbor as you love yourself.
This is my commandment: that you love one another as I have loved you! There is no greater law, and there is no greater love manifest than the act of giving up one's life for a friend.
Whoever lives contrary to this commandment will be least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever abides by this law, teaching others the joy of obedience, will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. I have told you all of these things that my joy might remain with you, and that your joy might be full.
You have heard it said, “It is only right to love your friends and hate your enemies.”
But I ask you to love your enemies. Bless those who curse you. Show goodness to those who hate you. Pray for those who despise and mistreat you. Doing this, you will become the children of your Father in heaven; for he makes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain to refresh the just and the unjust. If you love only those who love you in return, where is the reward? Even the corrupt live by these rules.
Instead, love one another as I have loved you. Doing this, everyone will realize that you are my disciples, because your lives are filled with acts of selfless love. Do not be deceived: if you say that you truly love me, your life will be lived according to my words and you will be honored by my Father and blessed with his presence.
If you hear my words and act accordingly, you will be loved by my Father and by me as well, and we will come and make our dwelling with you.
God loves you because you have believed in me, his son, and understood that I am come to you from him. Practice this awareness. Keep my words, and live in this love, even as I follow my Father's laws, and by doing so, abide continually in his love.
Oh and just for fun 's sake, you DO realize that Allah and God the Father are one and the same Deity, don't you? So if you are blasting Islam's faith and Allah, you are torpedoing your OWN faith.
And another fun fact. They consider Christ a great prophet as well.
For five seconds can you pay attention? I know it's difficult and you cant resist blasting out a snarky remark and getting spittle all over your keyboard while you rant....but bear with me. The topic of debate here is a "public figure" [[being generous there) sat on a national news commentary program and on a nationally broadcast news network [[were not talking 700 club here) and proselytized his religion to a total stranger while simultaneously denigrating the beliefs of billions of adherent to an ancient religion. I would think someone so devout would find that offensive. of course the topper on the whole issue is Hume's gay son's suicide on the eve of his being outed in smarmy bit of political intrigue. So Hume proselytizing about a religion that would cast out his own son is worthy of comment.Quote:
I see no persecution of Atheism. I do see Atheists getting their knickers in a twist because someone may be expressing a belief that they don't agree with.
But setting aside the gay son angle... just imagine the horror and outrage if Hume were a devout Buddhist instead and encouraged Tiger to abandon Christianity ? would he even make it to the end of the show before the hue and cry of the mob got him fired? would he even be able to leave the building without police protection?
NOTHING that comes from Faux News should be shocking.
It's jusr a huge circus, and they all have their own special act...
*Glenn Beck as the Rodeo Clown
*Sean Hannity as the Lion
*Rupert Murdoch as the Master of Ceremonies
*Roger Ailes as the Ringmaster
*Alan Colmes as the Lion Tamer
*Chris Wallace as the Juggler
*Bill O'Reilly as the fire eater
*Brit Hume as the Acrobat
*Shepard Smith as the magician
Brit Hume did nothing more than bend the conservative "a god-loving christian is holier than thou" ideology into the distorted right-wing news broadcast. They do it all the time, it just wasn't as subtle this time. I really don't understand why this is being discussed when it should have been simply ignored since what happened won't stop anyone from watching their non-news station nor will Faux News' acrobat lose his job [[which likely would have occurred if he were with any other news organization).
I won't count Colmes and Smith in that category. They do seem to realize that there's a lot of crazyness going on in conservative circles. It's not surprising that Hannity and Colmes seperated ways.
Meanwhile, here's Jon Stewart's take on this issue. Hahhaha!!!
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen...HUME-large.jpg
Pam, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy on this thread, and watching their heads spin.
Quote: "what shit are you actually talking about? "
"After all-- to a chirstianist a dead son is preferable to a gay one."
Genius here claims he meant "Christianist" and not "Christian". First of all there is no such thing as a "Christianist", secondly I asked this person to back up this claim and they go collect a bunch of links to religious whacko websites from some other nutjob website he obviously frequents. Judging by his screwed up attitude and juvenile ramblings.
In short it is total bullshit.
Quote: "Honestly.... you are so full of yourself."
Your point?
Quote: "Any time. My little mind? Don't make me laugh. At least I know how to use the quote function on a message board."
I think I speak for everyone here when I say I'm very proud of you.
Your point? And you forgot the rest of the quote too.
Well, thanks for the compliment. Of course the sentiment isn't reciprocal.Quote:
"Any time. My little mind? Don't make me laugh. At least I know how to use the quote function on a message board."
I think I speak for everyone here when I say I'm very proud of you.
I dont' know how to dumb it down enough for you, but for the THIRD time I said "christainist" AND MEANT christainist. It is a descriptor along the lines of Islamist. Here's a Time artcle from 2006... http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...191826,00.html. Not that I would expect you to read it.
Just as a ps.... I just want to be clear that you are continually referring to the Southern Poverty law Center as a wacko organization/website. As a point of personal curiosity, are you an actual member of the KKK or just a fan on facebook?
Quote: "As a point of personal curiosity, are you an actual member of the KKK or just a fan on facebook? "
meh..
The only gripe I really have against Tiger is that some of the skanks he was banging were hideous hags who looked worn out and used up like sperm dumpsters. Some of them looked pretty hot, but filthy at the same time.
At the very least, his taste in women is consistent. His biggest mistake was getting married. I'm sure it was good for his fabricated image and all, but the divorcee is going to end up costing him a ton of money and a tarnished image.
Either way he's set for life. He's an ultimate pimp.
It is kind of amazing that a distinguished organization like the Southern Poverty Law Center is being dismissed in that way. But this forum is consistently batshit, isn't it?
Atheists have only become active since the fundies have tried to teach children science a la the Bible. People in general have put up with a lot of religionist nonsense like prayers before football and basketball games.
Yeah, they got all that thar larning and stuff they 'spect you to read an' all.Quote:
There is more to their rhetoric than simple disbelief. They have an agenda. They actually research their refusal to believe, they have lists and sources cocked and loaded ready to support their disbelief argument, that they always start incidentally.
Actually, I hear fundies extoll on their "truth" much more so than atheists. The more you know about the natural world, the more skeptical you tend to be.Quote:
I think the real quarrel is with themselves. They know the truth.
Nothing. I see no point in argueing opinions based on nothing except someone's fantasies.Quote:
What do you not believe in that you'd like to discuss and have a heated debate about, and spend time researching?
Actually, if you knew anything about the ACLU you'd know that they base their cases on the Constitution which is the law of the land. It's the Constitution's way or the highway.
You may not mind your child being taught pseudo creation "science" by a bunch of liars and snake oil salesmen, but I do. Fundamentalist religions of all stripe represent an enormous step back towards the dark ages.Quote:
They just provide fuel for the religious hand wringers. They aren't bothering folks like myself one bit. They want to protest? That's their right. They want to get in my realm and spout shit, they can expect it back.
You have forgotten Islam, maybe? I hear a lot of hatred toward Islam because of some Islamists. I hear very little criticism of the Christian Dominionists like Doug Coe's Family who are trying to undermine our democracy from within. Just because they are not blowing up things and people, doesn't mean they are not destructive.
Xtianity is the predominant religion here so it is the main target for attack especially when lying fundies are rewriting U.S. history and spouting that this is a xtian nation. We certainly don't treat our poor very well for a "xtian" nation. Jesus must be rolling in his grave.Quote:
Christianity in the media is never shown in a positive light,
Where do you see such portrayals? Every Sunday, preachers are all over the airwaves with their snake oil. And D. James Kennedy spent a lot of TV time denigrating secular humanists as though they were the minions of some devil.Quote:
matter of fact it is portrayed that anyone involved is obviously mentally ill, a psycho, someone to look out for.
Someday I'll figure out why you have to be mentally ill to be a religionist? Or is that a badly-worded threat of hell which your sadistic religion teaches about?Quote:
Someday you'll figure out why. Maybe not.
I 86'd this thread two days ago, and the people that don't believe are still grinding away. LOL.. Grind on man.
Bailey, you are just a side-splitter if there ever was one. I'd like to meet the person [[ not really), that led you to believe you're some sort of humorist.
Ann Coulter has written a recent column about this topic that tells it like it is:
http://townhall.com/columnists/AnnCo...&comments=true
Just as much of a keeper as that column was one of the comments written in response to it, by a "Ted B. of Tiffin Ohio" which I made sure to cut and save lest some liberal manage to have it censored out. It's one of the best rebuttals I have ever seen to liberal bums who reject Jesus but reserve the right to invoke His name when trying to blame others for their problems.
Ted wrote:
"Remember, liberals, Jesus was divine. As such he could see right into the hearts of men to know if that individual was truly unfortunate " in a bad situation - through no fault of his own. Jesus could also instantly know a phony who was in a bad place because of laziness, negligence, or dishonesty. The current western liberals just do not care about any distinction! It is just the rescuing that feeds their ego and addiction to pity. Oh loverly, loverly, more victims to rescue!!!
I did not understand it, years ago, because I did not understand the egotistical motivation behind their every cause. But knowing the motivation makes each new liberal cause and reasoning extremely predictable. They value their own sense of superiority and like any child, IMMEDIATE emotional gratification. They do not care about the economic consequences to the rest of us caused by their sick behavior. ‘‘What deficit? ’’ ‘‘Money doesn’t matter,’’ or lie that the next boondoggle is going to actually help the economy. It always harms, but that is never important to them. No concern, no regrets for the incredible spending and costs that WILL push the USA over the edge, and into real economic chaos. Picture your own descendents skinny as bones and too weak to brush the flies away. It is coming because of liberals!
They don't want to hear about money. Reality will interfere with their childish emotions. They just wants to spend other people's money to .... RESCUE VICTIMS, MUST RESCUE VICTIMS, MUST RESCUE VICTIMS, MUST RESCUE VICTIMS, MUST RESCUE VICTIMS, MUST RESCUE VICTIMS, MUST RESCUE VICTIMS! as long as it's other people's money.
They are thieves who invoke the name of Jesus to rationalize their theft.
Remember this, when they start their whining about what Jesus would do, hit them right back in their phony snout with the real facts, the real consequences!"
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Quote: "what a sad, petty little person you must be. "
Wrong on all three kid. Any other juvenile insults? Silly question, I'll just check your next post.
Quote: "You just can not restrain your self from posting can you?"
Translated: When I insult you, you're supposed to tuck tail and flee. Why do you keep responding to my insults?
Not according to authentic Christian theology, they aren't. Nor according to the Bible. Jesus said in John 4:6, "No one comes to the Father except through Me." And Acts 4:12 says of Jesus: "... there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Certainly not "Allah."
Here's what C.S. Lewis had to say about that line of thinking. Granted, Lewis uses the term "great human teacher," but I believe calling him a "great prophet" would fall equally under similar logic. From "Mere Christianity":
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.'
"That is the 1 thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher.
"He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the son of God: or else a madman or something worse."
Then Lewis adds:
"You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God.
But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
I suppose that you are correct in painting the theological view of the majority Christian faith as being centered upon the aspect that Jesus was, in fact, God incarnate.
As a belief system, that works well. But ask yourself this. Can you trust the translation of King James or is there a better translation? Can you get a copy of the original version and accurately translate what is the earliest surviving translations? There are some that challenge those assumptions.
Quote: "Can you trust the translation of King James"
LOL... A defense used on both sides of the discussion. If it sounds like something God said, it probably is. I don't get too caught up in "writings" myself. Yeah yeah I know what's coming next.
each and every one of you people are filleting out tiny factoids to support your biased view of the world and then armed with such factoids you proceed to sledgehammer you opponent until they submit to your superior factoids.
Aren't you embarrassed yet?
Not getting too caught up in writings? How else do tenets and laws of any religion get transmitted? Osmosis? And the "if it walks like a duck" theory is pretty weak.
To be quite honest with you, I'd sooner live a life that I can be proud of. I know plenty of religious people that use the "forgiveness" crutch as a "get out of hell free" card.
That's a good thing.
Personally, I dislike the King James as I find its archaic language unneccessarily difficult for the modern reader to understand. I prefer the NASB translation. However, that is not the point. The point is whether a translation is faithful to the original manuscripts, and of that, yes, I have sufficient confidence in which to place my trust.
Actually, Biblically, what we can "be proud of" isn't the issue at all. The Bible says NONE of us are good enough [[Romans 3:23). Forgiveness/grace IS a "get out of hell free card" - Biblically there is nothing we can do to earn our way out no matter how "proud" we may feel about "our" accomplishments. But as further explained in other Scriptures such as the book of Romans, grace is NOT a license to simply do anything we want.
I have to laugh. I know that I am not worthy.
I believe in Jesus. I believe in his works.
I also believe in humility. I also believe that this world is populated by latter day Pharisees. And also Sadducees for that matter.
Using forgiveness and grace as an excuse to do things and get away with them is precisely the MO of your average Christian. They conveniently ignore the parts that don't suit them to insert their own interpretation.
Living a good life, one that you can be proud of , is the only way I can explain my philosophy. I can see a better outcome than the liar that goes to church each day while cheating on his wife and drinking to excess.
Quote: "I'd sooner live a life that I can be proud of."
Stosh, faith is not simply a way of life, and the Bible is not simply an instruction manual for that life. It's been translated numerous times, many things lost in translation, and why their appears to be so many inconsistencies. Some scholars after researching, even deduce the word "hate" to really mean "love" in some verses. It's why I don't get too caught up in ancient texts [[writings). Or take things too verbatim. If we could read them in their native expression, they would be much more understandable.
I see the Bible as sort of a test in that regard, can you read this or that verse that goes against what you think, and still believe?
Quote: "The point is whether a translation is faithful to the original manuscripts, and of that, yes, I have sufficient confidence in which to place my trust."
Exactly..
Quote: "Using forgiveness and grace as an excuse to do things and get away with them is precisely the MO of your average Christian. They conveniently ignore the parts that don't suit them to insert their own interpretation."
So, those people are not in charge of your salvation. Be thankful, you're smart enough to know the difference.
Yes, but they would LIKE to be. Where I and the majority of Christendom part company. Look about you. Everywhere that you look it's always boiling down to donations to keep their "ministry" afloat. Doesn't that bother you?
And what is it that they DO with the donations? It reminds me of a quote.. faith without works... some do good things. Most don't. They will answer for that.
I actually am confused about the Modern day Church and understand where you're coming from. In their attempt to get the word out, their very activity turns a lot of people off. And I can't say that I blame them. I just try to look above all that.
Here is how I look at donation or "tithing": I do so out of obedience, what the recipient does with it is their responsibility. It is their responsibility to be wise stewards with what is handed to them. So if you see a "church" throwing cash around and really want to fix there wagon, hand them some more..:)
I have seen so much abuse and misuse of the principle of tithing, that it is sickening. Some areas of the country, "preaching" is just another vocation. Organizations ran in almost organized crime like methodology. Neputism, coercion, bribery, cons, it's all there. I think these folks "on the take" buying Cadillacs, and mansions while others eat dogfood and sleep in the street are going to be sorry.
What passes for organized religion nowdays stinks to high heaven [[pun?). Their attempts to get the word out pales in comparison to the lavish lifestyles and lack of moral character of some of these men of the cloth. It has become a easy path to riches for those glib and good looking folks that can entice the simple minded to send 200 dollars for a prayer cloth blessed at the Holy Sepulchure, or something similar. Akin to selling indulgences or trafficking in relics of the saints.
Obedience to who? Tithing is only needed to support the clergy. If they are living a lifestyle better than most, reduce the tithe to what will SUPPORT them. Not give them a retirement home in the Keys.
I would prefer [[and do) support charities and religious orgs that actually demonstrate their willingness to get their hands dirty and do something about the human condition on Earth NOW. Their spiritual life is their own to handle.