http://freep.com/article/20090409/NE...l+on+Cobo+deal
City Council needs to change their minds...
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http://freep.com/article/20090409/NE...l+on+Cobo+deal
City Council needs to change their minds...
The question that I haven't seen asked is who put the language in the Cobo deal that required City Council to approve it? I suppose it's only right that CC have a say in the deal, it's just too bad that since they were included in the deal that they weren't brought into the negotiations or at least consulted on a regular basis. I believe the CC vote could have easily gone the other way if the CC was respected instead of looked upon as an afterthought.
Sad...
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If it were not for all the businesses downtown that will be hurt this stupidity, I would say screw em, they deserve what they get. Of course, the poor bastards that invested in all the hotels and associated businesses downtown don't deserve this crap.
Let's get it in Troy before Chicago takes the deal.
At this point in time, nobody is going to invest in the city, it will just go back to slum [[not a far leap) and the people who want to help will be held back until it goes into receivership.
Actually, Diver, they were. They even attended some of the planning meetings. They had the final say, but all those involved in the five years of discussions thought they were on board.Quote:
Originally Posted by diver1369
The council's rejection was political.
Well you win Monica.....its all yours - You pay to fix, renovate and expand it....oh thats right you don't have any money.....too bad!!!! Time to move the Auto show to another venue....Thanks Monica, see if your husband will spring for some federal funds to do the job.
All of the political theatre took away from legitimate questions the council had about the Cobo deal. Its just too bad the council couldn't have been more professional about it.
A victory for Ms Conyers. A defeat for Detroit. Patterson will be looking to win the war, and bring the Auto Show and other events to Oakland County.
The problem is, it's not a game of one upmanship or a war. It might be the last chance to begin a sane, metropolitan approach to the region's problems.
Chicago will be glad to take the Auto Show, thank you, and the "us" vs "them" bullshit will continue from the Conyers people and the Patterson people.
Sad.
Here is Patterson's response,
and Cockrel will appeal the ruling.Quote:
In-friggin’-credible!
"If they’re popping champagne corks in Detroit City Council chambers this afternoon, I would suggest to you it’s terribly premature. What City Council has done is overturn five years of hard negotiation that was Detroit’s last best chance to secure long term funding for Cobo Hall and frankly the North American International Auto Show.
"It is absolutely appalling to see what they’ve done to themselves. When Cobo Hall is shuttered like the nearby Ford Auditorium, City Council has nobody to blame but themselves for being so shortsighted.
"The legislation they defeated was the last best chance for Cobo Hall and the City of Detroit. I can’t tell you how frustrating it is; how badly I feel for the sensible citizens of the City of Detroit.
"I have no stomach, no appetite, no interest in going back to the table to rewrite a piece of legislation that would be satisfactory to Monica Conyers.
"When I get home from vacation, I’m going to call around to see if there’s any interest in attempting to move the venue of the North American International Auto Show to a site in the suburbs including Oakland County.”
I hope Cockrel does appeal. I'm so tired of Monica's bs. She acts like a brat and wastes everyone's valuable time on her petty grudges.
I'm pretty sure negotiations wouldn't have gone on for 5 years if they didn't think they were going to get approval...that being said...I agree with the observance of politics in play here. Makes me want to scream.
Just another in a long line of poor embarrassing city-self-destructing behavior by our council. I cannot wait to vote for their replacements. [[only the obvious ones of course).
besides cobo hall, is there a better venue for city of detroit's government to funnel money to whomever they please? *nobody* on council wants that meal ticket taken away. and of course, the books are in a state where they cannot be audited. even the $30M that kwame tacked onto the bond [[stole) without consulting the stakeholders is gone, and the regional leaders - to my knowledge - never made an issue of this during negotations. i know every city has corruption, but cripes, at least there's some results to go along with it. in detroit, you get the contract, then it doesn't matter if the work is done poorly, or not at all.
Oh well Detroiters deserve what they vote for. If I am the rest of the state I build a brand new shiny convention center outside of the city and take the auto show away simply for spite.
No one should be surprised by the outcome. The language of the state law and the legal precedents were airtight in favor of a decision for the City Council. Shame on state lawmakers for excluding the Mayor from this process and giving the Council veto power over this decision.
Patterson's talk of moving the Auto Show to OC is a lot of hot air. There's no private financing for a center as large as Cobo in the suburbs. There's no government financing for a center as large as Cobo in the suburbs. The owners of the existing center in Novi are not going to expand for a single show and there's not enough large shows that would come to Novi to justify the expansion for the rest of the year. There's no location in OC that can provide the hotel rooms for a show the size of the Auto Show or similar shows.
It seems there is such a simple remedy for you folks. Why doesn't the legislature just amend the law to require only the approval of the Mayor? What does the legislature care about this one way or another? Should be a 30 minute remedy.
Could it be that the legislature views Detroit as Comedy Central and mandated that the deal have Council approval just for laughs, knowing how the Council would address the proposal.?
That's what I were wondering.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3WC
Au contrare......Patterson says there's a one million square foot building that needs very little to get it up to par for the auto show, he says its on Centerpoint Parkway., near the Pontiac - Bloomfield Township border. I Live about 4 miles from there - I'm not sure what building he's talking about though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novine
This is sad. I can understand why the judge sided with CC. I just can't understand where CC got their attitude. This is like somebody stopping a heart attack victim from getting CPR. Not that the victim was going to live for sure but they want to make sure that he dies.
".Patterson says there's a one million square foot building that needs very little to get it up to par for the auto show, he says its on Centerpoint Parkway., near the Pontiac - Bloomfield Township border. I Live about 4 miles from there - I'm not sure what building he's talking about though."
Let's say this building exists. Who's money is going to renovate it? Who's money is going to operate it? What hotels are the people visiting going to stay at? What shows other than the auto show would take place at this location that would keep it in operation year-round? Do you really believe that people are going to come from across the country and the world to attend shows at the Centerpoint campus? Just because LBP blows this hot air doesn't mean you should accept his word as gospel.
LBP is likely talking about a closed or soon to be closed GM assembly plant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novine
By the same token, why would people come to Detroit after some of the nonsense Monica spews?
"LBP is likely talking about a closed or soon to be closed GM assembly plant.
By the same token, why would people come to Detroit after some of the nonsense Monica spews?"
Sounds like a totally unrealistic conversion prospect.
Most people coming to Detroit don't sit around and read the latest ramblings from Monica and the rest of the city council. They come to attend a convention in an area where they can enjoy opportunities to eat, drink and see the local sights when they're not attending convention activities. Is that going to happen at the Centerpoint location? No.
No other way to put it but those that throw a convention know what and who Monica is.
Cobo Hall the building doesn't matter anymore. It's her attitude.
Patterson likely could arrange a package to finance a new convention center. I doubt he wants to. Can't say that about city council.
Don't let your hate of Patterson obscure the incompetence of Detroit's elected elite.
The council is anti-Cockrel. They're doing this to mess up his chances for Mayor. Think about it, he would have looked like the hero had the council passed the deal. I'm quite sure other factors are at work [[possible payola) but the objections were political.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry Dad
Dear FBI: Keep digging.
New article in the FREEP says Bing is slamming Cockrel over the Cobo defeat.
Bing is quoted as saying:
"My opponent's failures have cost Detroit investment, job creation, tourism dollars and more,” Bing said in a statement. “This development dramatically underscores the need for a change in the leadership of Detroit. We need leadership that can get the deal done."
Oh please! Bing wouldn't have had much better luck. The council would have picked any sort of reason to block any deal Bing could have brokered.
First off, the judge in this case made the correct ruling. The state of Michigan gave City Council the ability to kill this deal and they did. I question the veto by Cockrel because I believe vetoes were used to kill a resolution, not approve it. That said, Cockrel should had secured the votes before the state signed off on this. He may not be the City Council president but he can still hobnob. Hell, if Kilpatrick can track down Barbara-Rose Collins at dinner to get her to vote to sell the tunnel, Cockrel could have done the same with this deal.
I am for a regional control of Cobo because Detroit can't afford it on its own. The state, Cockrel, Oakland, Macomb, and Wayne just have to go back to the drawing board.
As for Brooks' desire to move the Auto Show to Pontiac or anywhere else in Oakland County, dismiss this nonsense. Even if the folks from the Auto Show wanted to move it, it would be going to Chicago or perhaps Los Angeles. Comparing Pontiac to Chicago is like comparing a chick pea to a orange. It is Detroit or bust for the NAIAS.
IMHO, the 'fix' of Cobo Hall is another lipstick on the pig scenario. A new facility built near to downtown, on a site using some of the expanse of vacant land that surrounds downtown makes sense...the Cobo hall site is land locked and the Army Corp of Engineers already refused pilings to extend it over the river, a new city owned garage, opps, partially owned city garage, blocks crossing Congress St., going east over the Lodge doesn't seem to be in ther cards, although taking down the near diaster called the Hotel Pontch would make sense if this were a possibility. Remember, McCormick Place in Chicago is removed from downtown Chicago, and the Metro rail line that serves the complex is the most direct access along with sprawling parking which would obviously happen in a new facility built anywhere, including the burbs.
The area across from Motor City Casino makes sense as it is under-used. I'm sure that DTE would love to unload the facility they own over on on the Lodge...the Council is beyond help and the situation won't improve anytime soon. The tie in from downtown>midtown would be a boon to clean up a stretch of the city that has no real plans that I am aware of.
The sideshow called the Council will rock on doing degrees of damage that we can't imagine until, if, or when the Charter gets revised OR the city goes completely BUST and the State takes over. At this point that might be the best hope for a good housecleaning---and I never thought I would come to this conclusion, but after living in this town all my life and watching the decline accelerate to this point, it seems like this is the only way for any clean up to happen without more prolonged hijinks from Woodward and Jefferson. Is there something in the water down there? I remember Mary Beck and Jack Kelly were the butt of jokes, but their bickering and fighting pale by the currrent insanity.
The tragedy of the last Charter revision was the change of name, i.e. dropping 'Common' from the formal name.
Can someone please explain to me why the ruling was so clear from the get-go? If I understand it right, Council didn't have approve of the deal, they could only choose not to approve it, which they did by passing a resolution. According to city charter, the mayor has a right to veto resolutions from the council [[aside from some specific cases), which he did. And from what I understand, there is no place in authority legislation that says he can't do that. So I guess I don't understand why it's so clear that he didn't have the authority to veto. I would understand if it if the legislation said he couldn't veto, and the battle was over legislation vs city charter, but it's not. I guess I don't see the conflict between the two. I'm not trying to make a point here, I'm just really trying to understand why some on here feel that it is clearly the right decision.
I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think the thinking is the current legislation that the Detroit City Council rejected would have extended that hotel, beer and liquor tax until 2035 in Oakland, Macomb and Wayne counties or something to pay for the upgrades. Patterson is now looking to extend the tax ONLY for Oakland County, and pay for the upgrades to a viable building.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novine
This is going to be ugly.
Already is ugly.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefishwrap
Politicians fighting only results in one thing, the public loses.
Would eminent domain power [[as recently constrained) allow the City to take the 7-acre parcel at Gratiot and I-375? I would think that a convention center owned by the city is a public purpose in anyone's book.
Or the old Packard for that matter... That would help that neck of the woods out quite a bit I would think...Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggybear
Maybe. Maybe not.Quote:
Originally Posted by LodgeDodger
But I seriously doubt that Mr. Bing would have pushed a major piece of legislation through the State Legislature that was conditional on the Detroit City Council doing something sensible during an election season.
"Can someone please explain to me why the ruling was so clear from the get-go?"
This was discussed on a thread on the old board. The language in the state law clearly gives the Council the authority to reject the legislation. There's also court cases and Attorney General opinions that deal with this very issue and reject the Mayor's position that he can veto the council's action. Once I read the court cases, it was clear that the Mayor was going to lose.
"Patterson is now looking to extend the tax ONLY for Oakland County, and pay for the upgrades to a viable building."
That's probably not going to raise enough money to do the task. As I stated before, there's no building in Oakland County large enough to host the Auto Show today. Even if you converted or expanded an existing building, what business are you going to attract for the other 11 months of the year to help cover the operating costs that would come with a building that size? Where are you going to find the hotel rooms or the transportation to support shows that large? Not one person has been able to answer those questions which tells me that none of these proposals are serious or that anyone is thinking beyond a "Bleep Detroit and Monica!" position.
While there may not be a space for the OC to host the Auto Show, I will not cry for city if/when the show is relocated to Oakland County. It's the Council's fault for not supporting an accord that was disliked by all, but everyone had to deal with it.
I agree. Even if Brooksie can come up with the meeting space, only Detroit has adequate hotel and entertainment facilities to support a large convention. There’s no way the out-of-towners will want to waste their time shuttling between Detroit and Oakland County. And once the Auto Show leaves it’s only a matter of time before the smaller conventions stop coming too… It’s not only ‘Detroit or bust’. It’s Cobo or bust. I can’t see any way of coming up with enough to build a brand new facility.Quote:
Originally Posted by R8RBOB
As much as I dislike Kwame for what he did to Detroit, I think this would all be a non-issue if he was still mayor. He would either have influenced the original plan more or smoozed Monica into voting for it anyway. Plus Ken C would still be on the council which would mean another affirmative vote.
I’m afraid the $8.5 million Kwame cost the city could look like chicken feed compared to Monica’s possible legacy…. A derelict river front convention hall, bankrupt hotels and casinos, and businesses that moved downtown to participate in the Detroit renaissance fleeing back to the suburbs.
The Centerpoint location, which I'd speculate is the current home to GM Truck Product Center, has about 565 hotel rooms currently within 1.5 miles of it's location.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olddetroiter
By comparison, the Marriott Ren Cen has 1,298 by itself.
Christ, you make it sound like Oakland County is as far away as Flint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olddetroiter
According to news reports, there's about 4000 hotel rooms in Downtown Detroit proper. There's nothing like that number near any location in Oakland County. And do you think everyone coming to the event is going to rent a car or rely on the hotel transportation to get to the center? Or are they going to ride the non-existent transit services?
Well, Auburn Hills IS two hours from Detroit, according to the Motown nutcase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stosh
I don't believe that 565 number at all, you drive on Opdike Road and you see hotel after hotel. That Hilton Suites on Featherstone is huge, it must have close to 400 rooms, maybe more then that. There must be at least another dozen hotels out there.
Look at a map. The hotels on Featherstone are over 3 miles from Centerpoint. Are people going to walk down Opdyke to get to the center? Or ride the bus that doesn't exist? Or the light-rail that doesn't exist? They're all going to rent cars? No.
For someone who served on the city council for years, Cockrel acts like he is a foreigner. As mayor he knows that he need votes and arm-twisting is allowed. Kwame Kilpatrick was a master at it. Especially with a council dominated by women. The deal to regionalize Cobo should not been signed off until Cockrel could have delivered the votes to make this happen. This disaster falls to the feet of the mayor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olddetroiter
shuttle busses? cheap. temporary. picks people up at the door of their hotel and drops them off at the door of where they're going. is there anything easier?Quote:
Originally Posted by Novine
If/when the show is relocated to Oakland County!!! Why do people think that Oakland County would be the choice? If the NAIAS decided to leave Cobo then you have players from Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, Las Vegas, New York City with bids to move the show to their city. Oakland County has no major city to sell the Auto Show with and Patterson knows that. You can't sell Pontiac as the place where the world press is going to flock for a week looking at cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by dtowncitylover
I think we know that Detroit host the NAIAS for symbolic reasons. [[Motor City, home of GM, five dollar work days, created the middle-classs, etc...) This is not 1975 or 1978. You can't move the Auto Show to the suburbs and call it Detroit's Auto Show. So, it is Cobo or bust or Detroit or bust. Either it stays in Detroit proper or it goes away out of the state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimm
And then takes them back to their hotels at the end of the day??? Conventioneers want to party after the presentations [[sometimes during the presentations), not spend the evening sitting in their Oakland County hotel rooms.
Maybe not, but it sure seems like it during rush hour. I live in Oakland County near Pontiac and used to work in the Ren Cen. Allocate about 1 1/2 hours for the trip each way. That's 1 1/2 hours earlier the conventioneers have to get up in the morning and 1 1/2 hours less after-meeting party time. BTW don't look for time savings because you are going in the opposite direction as the working people. The traffic is heavy in both directions during rush hour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roq
Worked during the Ryder Cup and PGA at Oakland Hills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimm
650,517 attended the 2009 NAIAS [[a bad year due to the economy). The record is 810,699 in 2003. I can't find attendance figures for the Ryder Cup and PGA tournaments, but I bet they were nowhere close to these.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
Lake Placid worked for the 1980 Winter Olympics, but that doesn't make it a good place to build a convention center.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by R8RBOB
As much as I'm not in love with Bing this failure by Cockrel is very troublesome.
It just may come down to which flawed candidate will do the least amount of damage.
This is what happens when you make a "hood rat" as a new city council president!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by LodgeDodger
I've been saying all along:
This deal sucks and was dead from the get-go
There was not enough in the pot to get the city council to sign over Cobo
And that Ken couldn't override council!
Why doesn't the state and this newly formed authority just buy Cobo from the city. Make them an offer they can't refuse in this economy the city sure can use the cash. But try to take it over .... no this is a no brainer,
This is one of the most highly sought after pieces of real estate in Detroit and you just ain't going to waltz in there and take it over. At least not while Monica is calling the shots.
Way to go council!
Keep up the good work.
So instead the city will get nothing. And instead pay millions to keep their "jewel".Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart
Hate to break it to you but there isn't anybody willing to buy Cobo.
Cobo is like an old TV, you have to pay somebody to haul it away. Or like happens so much in Detroit, leave it where it becomes somebody else's problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry Dad
This deal will get done. Once there is a mayor with a four year mandate and a council with 4 to 5 new members [[a very real possiblity). The differences will get ironed out . I do believe there were some legit issues that weren't addressed for this deal to go thru. I believe its in everybodies best interest for this deal to happen and once you get some new players in there it will happen.
Purpleheart: Your statement that Cobo is "the most highly sought after piece of real estate in Detroit....." evidences a remarkable lack of understanding of the real estate business.
Real estate is generally valued as a multiple of its net operating income [[subject occasionally to other considerations) and in Cobo's case it has a net operating LOSS of $15,000,000 a year; the loss would be a substantial multiple of that amount if it were privately owned.
There's only one prospective "purchaser" and that's the consortium of counties which doesn't look at the transaction as a real estate deal; they just want to acquire it as a means to stop the bleeding and its current condition's adverse impact on their communities. Because of their status as municipalities, and the use of our tax dollars, that group is the only solution to a worsening problem.
If it were demolished and sanity ever returns to our capital markets, it's value from a real estate standpoint would be significantly enhanced.
Real estate [[or anything else for that matter) is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If Monica and her gang can get a better offer than what's currently on the table I suggest they snap it up before the chump changes his mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart
Likely the wrong thread but who is running for council as of now?Quote:
Originally Posted by firstandten
Instead of appealing the ruling, and losing in court again, maybe the Mayor should talk to City Council, at least Councilwoman Talabi, and find out what would make her agree to a deal. After all, he had her vote and lost it, which might suggest that there's a possibility that he could get it back.
It's obvious at this point that he's not going to win in court. He's just trying to save face and prolong this as long as he can.
The election is in 22 days. Why should I vote for Ken Cockrel. Monica Conyers is a disgrace to City Council and behaves like a fool. And yet, she is constantly getting the better of him which doesn't say much for his ability.
I can agree with this. I think the council in particular Conyers knows the mayor too well and know his strengths and weaknessless. I voted for Cockrel back in February because I believed he should have the right to finish out the year. I admit I cannot support him for a four year term because I don't think he is cut out be a strong leader that Detroit desperately needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by kraig
He made the mistake of signing off this disaster without securing a majority of the votes needed to pass this. Everyone knows that Conyers is going to at him "tit for tat" on everything and no way was she going to support this because he was for it. She did a better job selling the idea that Detroit should not give up Cobo than he did trying to get people to agree to regionalize Cobo. Detroit cannot have a weak mayor in these times.