I was wondering how the Detroit Newspapers were doing...here's the answer

I was speaking with a friend last week wondering how the new marketing campaign, that is supposedly being watched by all of America, was going for the News and Freep since they started the on-lin edition and limited daily hard copy.
Jack Lessenberry wrote this week in The Metro Times :

"The verdict is in: You may recall that last March the Detroit Newspapers went to a system where they deliver the newspaper only on Thursday, Friday and Sunday. Otherwise, you were supposed to read it online, though you could still go buy one...
Surprise! Things aren't that rosy after all. According to someone who was there, the company claimed to "have lost money in 2009 despite the fact that it made all its goals and targets following the switch" away from home delivery.
"Advertising revenues were down 30 percent and projections are for more red ink," the Partnership admitted. [[If they are telling the truth, do you suppose they shot the idiot who set those goals and targets?) Anyway, as a result, guess what: More layoffs!! Jobs will be eliminated for "all union-represented jurisdictions."
[[Article HERE)

Last night at Cass Cafe a bunch of us [[10-12 Detroiters) were talking at the bar. Being a crowd of 28 to 50-something educated people, it was odd that not one person subscribed to the electronic edition, not one person ever bought a new limited edition, and ONLY one person HAD home delivery [[about 8 years ago).

There were several reasons why they had not subscribed but overwhelmingly people felt the papers have become too political and try harder to make the news than report it. Nolan Findley was unanimously criticized as the biggest turn off for trying to make the News and turning people off from subscribing.

Does anyone out there subscribe? Why not, if you do not subscribe?

I subscribe - even though I usually just end up reading the free online edition.

Why? Because I don't want to see our newspapers fail. Anyone who doesn't subscribe is partly responsible for their demise - whether it's over a petty political conflict or whatever. Last I checked Nolan Findley didn't write the entire paper...

I can't believe [store] closed - but I haven't shopped there in years!

I used to subscribe and had for years [[10 +). I cancelled my subscription when they stopped home delivery on Saturdays. I only read the paper on Saturday and Sundays. I threw away the paper that I got on Thursday and Friday without even opening it [[No time too read on those days).

Once the Saturday delivery stopped, I couldn't see paying the extra money to only read the Sunday paper. So now on Sunday mornings I get up and walk to the store and buy the Sunday edition. I guess they did me a favor: I save money and get some exersise. Not sure how this will work out once the snow flies, but I'll worry about that then.

Now on Saturday, I ususally just read the Free on-line version, but Sunday I prefer to have the real thing in hand.

When I cancelled my subscription I told them exactly why, and I thought stopping Saturday delivery was a bad decision. I would have kept my subscription if they wouuld have went to a Friday, Saturday, Sunday delivery, but they didn't

I was a daily subscriber to the Freep for over 15 years. When they announced that delivery dates would be cut I cut my subscription. I usually pick one up on my way to work. At least I know I'll be getting a paper as my delivery boy/man was way too unpredictable. I cannot tell you how many times I had to call to report a nondelivery. If it's not here by 7 AM then it does me no good.
Now the price has doubled yet the content is less. Go figure. I buy the Freep but read Detnews online. I cannot say the price is worth it but I'm a sucker for reading the paper front to back. And I do not know what I'd do if I couldn't read the daily comics.
It sucks but what are you going to do?

Grew up in a 2-paper household. Freep and News subscriber for 30+years.

I love my newspapers!!! That is, I enjoy reading the real newspaper and sharing stories with my husband. It doesn't matter if I don't get a chance to read the paper that day. I already know the headlines, but it is the feature stories and the area community news that I want to know about.

As an amateur historian, I often clip articles about people, buildings, cultural traditions and events for future reference. Not many days go by that I don't clip something.

I haven't activated the online editions of the newspaper because 1) I really enjoy reading the physical newspaper and 2) I work at a computer all day long, plus spend at least a couple more hours each evening online just communicating and researching. And printing out the online articles just isn't the same thing as having the real newspaper article in hand.

That said, the switch to home delivery only on Thursday, Friday, and Sunday forced me to make a stop each Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday to purchase my daily newspaper. At 50 cents, that wasn't too bad. But the recent price hike to $1, making it $8/wk to pick up my two papers, or roughly $400 a year, is a difficult pill to swallow, especially when added to the cost of the home delivery. I will have to sit down and do the math and make a decision about the future of newspapers in my household.

We used to get all three papers when I was little. Three kids, three comic sections on Sunday, perfect harmony.

I subscribed to the Free Press until the strike. I finally picked it up again with the electronic edition, and I read that most days. With that you get Thursday, Friday and Sunday home delivery.

I agree, content is sadly diminished and the reporting has come down many notches. It makes me wonder if journalism is becoming a lost art. I like the local news, features, stories about history, culture, and notices of events the best. For national news I mostly rely on NPR and CNN on line.

There are considerable layoffs in the future, not just union jobs but throughout the company. It's completely depessing.

Used to buy both papers every day, although I didn't subscribe. Haven't bought one in ages. Simply put, they're not worth the money--little hard news, and for essays I can do much better than the columnists [[exhibit A: Mitch Albom). The sole fresh voice is Oneita Jackson. If the Freep gave me a chance to put money in an electronic tip jar for Schaefer and Elrick, however, I would gladly do so.

I was a FP paperboy from 1966-69 and prior to that, I read my parent's home-delivered DN from when I was about 8 or 9 years old [[I learned very quickly to put it back in the original order before my dad got home from work). I've been a daily & Sunday DN subscriber since I got married 35 years ago. Over the years, I've washed pounds of newsprint ink off my hands, but the Detroit Newspaper Agency has made it very easy for me to go through my withdrawal phase.

Their non-delivery from Monday through Wednesday allowed me to get out of the regular habit of reading the paper and the ones I now receive often go unread . My DN subscription expired in August. I deliberately chose not to renew it since all I was getting was two daily DN editions plus the Sunday FP, which I never asked for and had no choice but to receive. I never bothered to subscribe to the electronic on-line edition of the DN, since I've had a paid subscription to the Macomb Daily e-paper for several years now.

Despite my decision not to renew, I am still receiving regular home delivery of the DN on Thursday and Friday and that other rag on Sunday. According to my Caller-ID, I am also receiving regular phone calls from the Detroit Newspaper Agency, which I refuse to pick up.

RIP DNA.

I've never had good luck with home delivery, but have been buying the Free Press from the local drug store for years. I've tried my best to accept all the changes, but the steady decline in both editorial and feature content has made it harder and harder to keep it up. The recent change to $1 for the weekday paper has just about sealed it for me.

I was out of town a few days ago, and the hotel I stayed at provided a free copy of USA Today. I read it, for the first time in years, and was surprised to discover that the content was actually more interesting than the Freeps I've been reading lately. Sad.

I haven't got my Detroit Times in a while...

Dropping the home delivery sealed it for me.
The paper has been getting thinner and stupider for years. However, I still had my ritual of at least scanning through all my local news before I wolfed down my eggs and coffee and dashed out the door. If I happened to have the day off, we would sit and pass the paper and talk about the articles.
They punished their most loyal followers by cutting daily delivery. Who is honestly going to read that rag on a computer? I sit at a computer for most of the day, why the fuck would I want to some more? Should I eat my breakfast and dinner in front of the computer? Should I pass the laptop around the dinner table? Should I take it to the shitter? Do I have to write on my computer screen to do the jumble?
I didn't care for their cavalier attitude about it, either. They overmarkted it as the wave of the future and that we cavemen must change and keep up with the times. Why not write a decent paper instead, assholes?
So they console me by telling me I can walk to Mobil in the freezing fucking cold to drop $1.00 on that rag? The summaries are moronic. Why should I read a factless blurb that repeats what I'm going to be reading on the next page? Now their stories from individual cities usually involve meeting times for city councils or Knights of Columbus fundraisers. Guess what? That isn't news.
The paper has been declining in quality and quantity for years. If they had been writing a decent paper, they could have kept up with their expenses. Too bad they sucked too bad to manage that.
I still have my subscription but have fallen out of reading the paper daily. I'm looking forward to them going bust because it is no fault but their own, no matter how much they like to blame everything else. I'd rather wipe my ass with a fistful of broken glass than that rag. I hope someone from the Detroit newspapers is reading this and taking notes, if they can write.
Now someone just has to step up to the plate and write a real local paper. How about some of the good people the Detroit rags have laid off over the years and the journalism grads from out state U's? Buy the old Freep building that they abandoned and give me a daily delivery because I have my checkbook ready.

Have you people forgotten the role played by the Free Press in exposing the text messages of Kwame and Christine Beatty. There is still a role for newspapers in this town tho' the quality of the coverage is pitiful. I subscribe to the Thurs-Fri-Sunday papers and read both online editions daily.

Another reason why I'm glad I moved to Nevada. The Las Vegas Review-Journal delivers seven days a week without fail. Good paper and they seem to have plenty of advertising to keep in the black.

I usually scan the web editions of the News and Freep just for a quick update on what's going on back in Detroit, but rarely look at it in depth or read the feature writers/editorials.

HINFY.

I subscribe to the Free Press. We need a local paper and I enjoy it. And I don't think I am entitled to just read the freep.com for free. I know that sounds crazy to the entitled generation.

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Originally Posted by eno

Have you people forgotten the role played by the Free Press in exposing the text messages of Kwame and Christine Beatty. There is still a role for newspapers in this town tho' the quality of the coverage is pitiful.....

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You just answered yourself.

Yes, they do have some great stuff occasionally, but the quality is inconsistent as you were alluding to.

I personally am SICK of so many opinion pieces. Maybe that is easier and cheaper than investigative stories, but I'm sick of them always telling us how things should be, according to them.

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Originally Posted by East Detroit

HINFY.

I subscribe to the Free Press. We need a local paper and I enjoy it. And I don't think I am entitled to just read the freep.com for free. I know that sounds crazy to the entitled generation.

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Well, you can go right on paying for something that is 24-48 hours old and is a mash of AP and syndicated columns anyway. There is nothing "entitled" about choosing to use the free and up to the minute version instead of paying for delivery of bird cage liner. The freep and news [[and all print) killed themselves by offering a free online edition of what they are selling you. If I were you, I'd be pissed I was paying for something everyone else is getting for free.

Further, it is a personal mission in my life that I do all I can to ensure I contribute in no way to Mitch Albom or Rochelle Riley's salaries.

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Originally Posted by ImHere

I used to subscribe and had for years [[10 +). I cancelled my subscription when they stopped home delivery on Saturdays. I only read the paper on Saturday and Sundays. I threw away the paper that I got on Thursday and Friday without even opening it [[No time too read on those days).

Once the Saturday delivery stopped, I couldn't see paying the extra money to only read the Sunday paper. So now on Sunday mornings I get up and walk to the store and buy the Sunday edition. I guess they did me a favor: I save money and get some exersise. Not sure how this will work out once the snow flies, but I'll worry about that then.

Now on Saturday, I ususally just read the Free on-line version, but Sunday I prefer to have the real thing in hand.

When I cancelled my subscription I told them exactly why, and I thought stopping Saturday delivery was a bad decision. I would have kept my subscription if they wouuld have went to a Friday, Saturday, Sunday delivery, but they didn't

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Well if that isn't socialism......

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Originally Posted by bailey

There is nothing "entitled" about choosing to use the free and up to the minute version instead of paying for delivery of bird cage liner. The freep and news [[and all print) killed themselves by offering a free online edition of what they are selling you. If I were you, I'd be pissed I was paying for something everyone else is getting for free.

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Sorry, I feel better paying for someone else's work. And no, I'm not going to be pissed at you for taking it for free. I'll just have less than admiration for you.

You can continue to read the freep for free in your "unentitled" way which includes blaming them for making it free. Make sure to close your eyes whenever you see an advertisement.

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Originally Posted by East Detroit

Sorry, I feel better paying for someone else's work. And no, I'm not going to be pissed at you for taking it for free. I'll just have less than admiration for you.

You can continue to read the freep for free in your "unentitled" way which includes blaming them for making it free. Make sure to close your eyes whenever you see an advertisement.

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Hey, it's not napster. It's not copy written material being shared in violation of the law. The ones who produce the product are giving it away for free. In fact the free product is generally better [[in my view) than the print edition. It's their own fault for removing any incentive for anyone to pay for the product they need people to buy.

Offer some content worth paying for and I may subscribe again. until then, I'd take the NYT 'weekender' over anythign the Freep or News are trying to sell me.

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Originally Posted by bailey

Hey, it's not napster. It's not copy written material being shared in violation of the law. The ones who produce the product are giving it away for free. In fact the free product is generally better [[in my view) than the print edition. It's their own fault for removing any incentive for anyone to pay for the product they need people to buy.

Offer some content worth paying for and I may subscribe again. until then, I'd take the NYT 'weekender' over anythign the Freep or News are trying to sell me.

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They are not offering it for free.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

They are not offering it for free.

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It's free to me. I'm not bothered by the ads or the awkward page breaks that a paid online subscription allows one to avoid.

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Originally Posted by jhartmich

You just answered yourself.

Yes, they do have some great stuff occasionally, but the quality is inconsistent as you were alluding to.

I personally am SICK of so many opinion pieces. Maybe that is easier and cheaper than investigative stories, but I'm sick of them always telling us how things should be, according to them.

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Are you kidding me? The publication of the text messages exposed the lies of the Mayor and his chief of staff which led to their removal from office. That is nothing short of revolutionary. It has the potential, depending on the quality of the newly elected officials, of clearing out the self-serving politicos for a new generation that seeks to serve the interests of the city and it's residents. The rest of the complainers in this thread are mere whiners.

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Originally Posted by bailey

It's free to me. I'm not bothered by the ads or the awkward page breaks that a paid online subscription allows one to avoid.

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It's "free", yet you are paying for it when you buy products from companies who advertise on those web sites. So it isn't free. It's using the same model of profit through ad revenue that broadcast television has been using since forever.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

It's "free", yet you are paying for it when you buy products from companies who advertise on those web sites. So it isn't free. It's using the same model of profit through ad revenue that broadcast television has been using since forever.

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I suppose that is true if I were in the market for a Ford or apartment hunting on Apartments.com...but I get ya. I guess we should be really pissed we ever had to pay for the paper then.

I've gone completely electronic when it comes to the news. I haven't subscribed to a hard copy newspaper in years.

Question for the "good riddance" crowd: Who's doing it better?
The Metro Times does some decent work, but that's once a week, and they don't deliver to your door either. Are the local TV people going to pick up the ball and do hard-hitting investigative journalism? Doubt it. You get Steve Wilson, during sweeps period, but that's about it.
Maybe there are some enterprising bloggers out there with the experience, energy and ethics to fill the void.
For now, though, readership - online - is strong for the dailies, and if that went away I have a feeling people would be howling even louder.
Politicians would love it, though.

Don't feel alone on this issue. It is happening nation-wide. I grew up with both the Freep and News and read both daily. I LOVED the newspaper and must admit, I still have an addiction to it. Now living in Baltimore, I am experiencing the same dilemna. I consistently buy it, read it, and they feel the air of disappointment once the experience is over. It's simply not like it was. I guess it will soon be a thing of the past. Shame. Price up-quality down-nationwide.

I have always read both newspapers...the Detroit Free Press for news and features and the Detroit News to see what "the other side" was thinking. Until the recent changes, I bought both papers each morning. I also read the online edition, but there is nothing like having the actual paper in your hands, where you can enjoy it with a cup of coffee at your leisure. Then the price went up to $1.00. The problem is the price has increased and the quality has decreased. The weekday editions have less news and sometimes less credibility than Wayne State's The South End. The papers are embarrassingly thin. And at our cottage up north, I've noticed a refusal to buy the paper at all. In my favorite local restaurant up north, there used to be a breakfast crowd where 3/4 of the diners had either the News or Freep with them. The other day, when I stopped by, I was the only one to have purchased a paper. I feel sorry for anyone going into print journalism these days.

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Originally Posted by Diehard

Question for the "good riddance" crowd: Who's doing it better?....
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Um, I would say lot's of publications if were talking just news. I like the TV news because they actually REPORT shit and not just opine shit. I like the Metro Times if you're talking print, talk radio for local news that never makes print, and many of the independents for local stories that seem to never get picked up in the News.

I'm not saying there are a few good articles now and then, but 90% of the paper is AP stories that can be read in any newspaper in America.

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Originally Posted by jtf1972

I haven't got my Detroit Times in a while...

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Shameless Detroit Times plug:
http://www.buildingsofdetroit.com/places/times

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Originally Posted by jhartmich

Um, I would say lot's of publications if were talking just news. I like the TV news because they actually REPORT shit and not just opine shit. I like the Metro Times if you're talking print, talk radio for local news that never makes print, and many of the independents for local stories that seem to never get picked up in the News.

I'm not saying there are a few good articles now and then, but 90% of the paper is AP stories that can be read in any newspaper in America.

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I'm not sure which other independent publications you're talking about that have straight, unopinionated local news? Real Detroit? Michigan Citizen? Metro Times has a lot of strong stuff, but it's not daily, nor is it a straight-ahead, objective viewpoint.
I don't know about you, but when I watch the local TV news, it's usually some blowdried mannequin standing in front of a fire blathering about nothing to kill time, or a "concerned parent" complaining about traffic in front of their house, or "you won't believe where this shocking scene happened!" and it's in France or something... you get the point. I don't picture Monica Gayle doing an in-depth expose on City Council budgetary abuses.

The MetroTimes has always been handed out for free in hard or soft copy. In a sense they were the model for where print media were headed and figured out a funding model that has allowed them to endure and prosper. The big dailies grew slothful with their lock on micro-ads aka classifieds on one end and then the big full page advertisers on the other.

Then along came the internet and Craig Newmark.

Along with their power and pelf came status and prestige which IMO developed into a self-importance problem that blinded them to the real forces aligning against them. They could afford to hold their noses up the escort ads that the 'inferior' MetroTimes took on. Look who's laughing to the bank now.

The big dailies are running on fumes and reputation. I am astounded that their doors stay open.

The sad part is that there will be a big hit to quality journalism and local in depth investigative reporting until they figure out how to develop a new funding model. Public radio and television have figured it out by passing the hat and developing sponsorships. Maybe they need to look in that direction.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

The MetroTimes has always been handed out for free in hard or soft copy. In a sense they were the model for where print media were headed and figured out a funding model that has allowed them to endure and prosper. The big dailies grew slothful with their lock on micro-ads aka classifieds on one end and then the big full page advertisers on the other.

Then along came the internet and Craig Newmark.

Along with their power and pelf came status and prestige which IMO developed into a self-importance problem that blinded them to the real forces aligning against them. They could afford to hold their noses up the escort ads that the 'inferior' MetroTimes took on. Look who's laughing to the bank now.

The big dailies are running on fumes and reputation. I am astounded that their doors stay open.

The sad part is that there will be a big hit to quality journalism and local in depth investigative reporting until they figure out how to develop a new funding model. Public radio and television have figured it out by passing the hat and developing sponsorships. Maybe they need to look in that direction.

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Very well said. I couldn't agree more.

I dropped my subscription when those hypocrites locked out the workers and hired scabs. Let me know when there is a settlement AND all those affected [[or their decendents now) receive proper restitution.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

The MetroTimes has always been handed out for free in hard or soft copy. In a sense they were the model for where print media were headed and figured out a funding model that has allowed them to endure and prosper. The big dailies grew slothful with their lock on micro-ads aka classifieds on one end and then the big full page advertisers on the other.

Then along came the internet and Craig Newmark.

Along with their power and pelf came status and prestige which IMO developed into a self-importance problem that blinded them to the real forces aligning against them. They could afford to hold their noses up the escort ads that the 'inferior' MetroTimes took on. Look who's laughing to the bank now.

The big dailies are running on fumes and reputation. I am astounded that their doors stay open.

The sad part is that there will be a big hit to quality journalism and local in depth investigative reporting until they figure out how to develop a new funding model. Public radio and television have figured it out by passing the hat and developing sponsorships. Maybe they need to look in that direction.

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Great. A future newspaper of 10% news, 15% band/movie reviews, 25% bar ads and 50% transvestite hookers sticking their thongified buttcheeks in the camera. I can't wait.

I worked at the Freep for 13 years as a printer, before switching over to work for the vendor who replaced our old hot-lead linotypes with an electronic publishing system. But sure glad I did, because I could see the beginning of the end back in the 1980s. The strike put the nail in their coffin.
The growth of the internet will put these newspapers out of business before long. Sad.
An example: Lowell's excellent point above included the word "pelf". I opened a new Explorer screen and looked that up on dictionary.com. It's another word for "money." I learned a word I hadn't seen before. How many times has that happened while reading a newspaper???

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Originally Posted by 7andkelly

I dropped my subscription when those hypocrites locked out the workers and hired scabs. Let me know when there is a settlement AND all those affected [[or their decendents now) receive proper restitution.

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Out of curiosity, which other publications are unionized? Anyone know?

I used to get the paper daily and I loved it.

I tried the here and there subscription they offered and could never remember whether I was supposed to have a paper or not and never seemed to have one on the days I wanted one. I like a real paper in the morning without having to go out of my way to get it. Grab it in my slippers and read a little of it between the time I'm ready to leave and the time I have to leave. Maybe read a few comics sitting at the useless lights they run at six am. Its also something in the car that I can read if I end up getting somewhere early. So, for numerous reasons including not liking to read long things on the internet, the online edition is useless to me.

As for buying it every day, I'm not much of a morning person but start work at 6:30 so once I get in the car, I don't want to make any extra stops and make my drive longer so I just don't get it.

When I cancelled, I told them I'd pay extra to continue the daily service and I'm still waiting for them to accept that offer. When they first announced it, I was scratching my head. They claim they took a poll, but the numerous subscribers I talked to said they didn't like it and were never asked about it. I think they tried to save money by doing the poll online and never thought to ask the people that actually wrote them the checks because the poll wasn't very reliable indication of what subscriber's would do. Its still a great paper and if the Freep cares, I'd resubscribe to daily membership in a heart beat, but I'm just not really interested otherwise.

In the same line, whats with the garbage that many of the businesses I work with have to waste my time everytime I call with an automated message about how great it is to use their website. I wouldn't have called the number if I wanted to be on the damned website. We get it! The internet exists!

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Originally Posted by Diehard

Out of curiosity, which other publications are unionized? Anyone know?

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To anybody who knows the history of newspapering, it is a strange question to hear. Printers and typesetters were among the earliest trades unionized, as they were some of the smartest in the working class. And they were committed to organizing themselves and helping others get organized.

Not to say there's anything wrong with your question, Diehard. Anybody want to actually answer it? :)

There is so little actual "Detroit" news in either paper these days. Because I need to keep up on local things, I continued to pay for and read the Sunday paper until 2 years ago. During the week, I would read the online version. But Sunday's edition became too heavy on fluff or sports -- and forget it if you wanted anything more than a paragraph or two on national and world news. I gave up on local tv news years ago because of all the sensationalism.

Now, I read the Sunday NYT and it is worth every bit of the $6 it costs. For the real scoop on local news, I come to DetroitYes and skim the online editions of the News and Freep for the rest. More often than not, I get more of the real story from DetroitYes.

The Metro Times is not unionized -- they've fought it successfully. The Oakland Press busted its unions back in the what, '80s?
The Free Press and Detroit News newsrooms are unionized. The companies did come to a financial settlement to the strikers who couldn't come back because they were "fired" -- good settlement or not, they all opted to vote for it, for the good of all. Many strikers are back inside, and when Elrick won his Pulitzer he was wearing a Guild button very prominently.

The final straw was the home delivery changes. Before that, the quality of the paper was lacking, but I did see glimmers of hope from time to time.

I tried the electronic version and was truly unawed by it. Hard to read, page freeze up, blurry, etc. I don't have time to waste in the mornings, and a locked up computer is not the way to go. At work, I have computer access, but due to company computer policy there is a time limit for news sources of 90 minutes. Sounds like a lot, but when you log in, if you are on for thirty seconds, and have to stop for example and answer the phone and use the computer for it's intended use, a business related function you are still "charged" for a set block of time. I've used up an hour of time for a two minute story, no exaggeration. And, to be fair, I'm paid to work, not read the paper at work.

I tried the Thursday/Friday/Sunday paper for a short time. Friday and Sunday were so-so, Thursday was fit for cat box liner IMO.

As I posted in a earlier thread, the subscription department was a real trip. I cancelled the three day paper by phoning into the call center. When asked why I was cancelling, I told them that all I really wanted was the Sunday paper, but at the time I subscribed to the three day because that was the only way I could get it.

Well, the rep said she could give me a Sunday only paper, electronic biling to my credit card for a figure that I can't remember now. I told her I was uncomfortable doing that as I had billing issues before when paying by check, and I wanted some control over what was going on my credit card.

She then offered me the same terms but mailing my bill on a monthly basis for about a dollar and a half LESS per month. I then asked her how they could computer generate a paper statement and mail it for less than the electronic billing. She said that she didn't know, but that is what she had in front of her.

Yeah, I'm going to trust them with my credit card number?:confused: Anybody want to buy a bridge?

Good bye Free Press, a part of my morning since 1967 [[except when I lived out of state 79-88)

I'd have to venture that the current financial problems stem from businesses cutting back on ad spending, much more than a strike from the '90s. Remember, this is happening nationwide. Many longtime papers have shut their doors in the past year.

As a retired Detroit News delivery man, I think it's too bad that today's kids are not afforded the experience of the type of work delivering newspapers entails. Seven days a week, every day of the year, collect, pay yer bill, keep the change, go buy a six of Goebel and hang out by the railroad tracks. Now, for the most part, kids have to work at crap places like Taco Bell, or MacDonalds. Newspaper delivery was a key function in our neighborhood, the rivalry between the News and Freep was mystic. We never seen those Freep deliverer's because they had to work early in the morning, they were like the enemy you couldn't see. Freep customers thought Det News deliverer's were lower than whale shit, and likewise for my customers towards Freep people. And then there were those who subscribed to both rags. Fridays were the best because I could get the Entertainment section when it first hit the streets, and take it home for the folks. Those jobs will not return. Or will they?

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Originally Posted by 7andkelly

I dropped my subscription when those hypocrites locked out the workers and hired scabs. Let me know when there is a settlement AND all those affected [[or their decendents now) receive proper restitution.

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I still have this fond little dream where a court finds one of the stray lawsuits lingering about and reverses the entire thing. I have striker friends who were never given any kind of final closure. It would be really lovely but it ain't gonna happen.

In the meantime, more layoffs loom in ALL departments. That building is so empty you can hear the wind whistle through some days.

I hear the building is for sale, BTW. Anybody wanna buy an old newspaper, cheap?

The poster asked what publications are unionized. The fact is, the News and Freep newsrooms are, when most in the area are not.
If you're buying the Oakland Press, you're buying a paper that busted its unions.
There are a lot of people inside that "old newspaper" building like Elrick, Schaefer andyes, Leduff who are proud union members doing important work.

And me. Remember, it takes more people to put a paper out than reporters.

All my life I subscribed to the Freep it broke my heart when they changed ,and soon to nobody's surprise there will be no Detroit Papers.What killed our papers is what killed everything in this City . Unchecked capitalism and the desire to do the new thing with no regards to our traditions.

Oh I'm sure it's OK -- you guys can always link to WDET stories.

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Originally Posted by ggores

As a retired Detroit News delivery man, I think it's too bad that today's kids are not afforded the experience of the type of work delivering newspapers entails. Seven days a week, every day of the year, collect, pay yer bill, keep the change, go buy a six of Goebel and hang out by the railroad tracks.

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Hmmm, interesting childhood you had there.

Like a lot of boomers, I love reading the actual newspaper. I hate to say it, because I think that the competition between the two papers has resulted in some very good reporting, but News-Free Press consolidation is probably inevitable at some point. Obviously, the bigger issue is survival. I hope that the major metropolitan dailies can find some new model to generate revenue [[as has been pointed out, the whole classified ad structure is nearly dead, and display advertising revenue is on its way out, too). Converting all newspapers to online versions would do the public a disservice.

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Originally Posted by Savoyard

The growth of the internet will put these newspapers out of business before long. Sad.
An example: Lowell's excellent point above included the word "pelf". I opened a new Explorer screen and looked that up on dictionary.com. It's another word for "money." I learned a word I hadn't seen before. How many times has that happened while reading a newspaper???

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It happens fairly often, for me at least. However, I'm unique. I was taught by nuns who encouraged me to keep a dictionary nearby when I read and to look up words the old-fashioned way.

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What killed our papers is what killed everything in this City . Unchecked capitalism and the desire to do the new thing with no regards to our traditions.

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Yeppers, those greedy 19th century capitalist bastards ruined this city when they forgot that Detroit's future growth was assured only by continuing with their traditional businesses of making cigars, barrels, ships, wagons and stoves.

Seriously, most clear-eyed observers recognize that the situation the News and Free Press finds itself in is due to management and labor's inability to respond to the new options that became available to their advertisers and readers. Yes, I like to be able to hold and read a home-delivered daily newspaper when and where I want to, but I also now have many other news and advertising sources instantly available to me throughout the day that are delivered by content and service providers who have figured out how to deliver it the last mile to my home and office while making a profit. Yet the Detroit Newspaper Agency decides to hang their survival on scaling back their long-standing ability to daily deliver their product the last mile to their customers. Disregarding a tradition is not the issue here, rather it is the mistaken notion that long-term success can be achieved by reducing customer service with the expectation that their already declining customer base will reluctantly accept it and halt the circulation death spiral.

What does labor's inability to respond to new options mean? I think you're just slapping at labor because that's your way, you don't know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by oldredfordette

What does labor's inability to respond to new options mean? I think you're just slapping at labor because that's your way, you don't know what you're talking about.

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He said management and labor.

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What does labor's inability to respond to new options mean?

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First of all, the sentence I wrote said, "....the situation the News and Free Press finds itself in is due to management and labor's inability to respond to the new options that became available to their advertisers and readers."

What does that mean, you ask?

It means that management and labor are in the same sinking boat, with advertising and subscription revenues in a decades-long decline. Over that period, their advertisers and readers have gained many new options for placing and receiving information in addition to the daily newspaper.

How have management and labor responded to the challenge? From the paying customer's viewpoint, the response has been to cut back on content and home delivery. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that's not a long-term solution and that it's an attempt to buy some more time while management and labor come up with a better response.

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you don't know what you're talking about.

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That seems to typify the attitude of both management and labor at the Detroit newspapers towards their paying customers. Maybe you're right, but I don't give a flying fuck anymore.

As of today, I'm no longer a subscriber. I received an invoice yesterday and I noticed in the fine print why I was still receiving the paper even though my subscription had expired in August. Even though I don't remember ever signing up for automatic renewal, one quick call took care of that.
Attachment 3588 Attachment 3589

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Originally Posted by Fury13

Hmmm, interesting childhood you had there.

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eh, you know, it is what it is.... or was what it was... was what it is...


Mikeg, you should pay that bill, people depending on your paying for you newspaper.

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Mikeg, you should pay that bill, people depending on your paying for you newspaper.

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I told them I would pay for the papers I've received from August to now, but not with a renewal invoice that reads "Service will continue unless you call to cancel". I told them they had just received my "call to cancel" and that I will pay my balance owed when they send me a new invoice acknowleding that I had canceled and the amount I actually owed for papers received.

Mikeg you shouldn't argue with the newspaper, you should renew that subscription, pay that paper bill before your subscription becomes cancelled.

Damn I'm good.....

I'm not saying this is the best solution, but what if . . .

The two major daily newspapers truly combined. With each having their separate sections - like they do on Sunday. And, what if, say, the Macomb Daily sections, were also included. Or what ever the local paper is in your area. One daily delivery. The advertisers could choose the section they wanted their ads to be in. Separate reporting and editorial staffs, but combined printing, logistics and delivery.

What do you think?:)

You're probably going to get your wish.

Mikeg, what makes you think labor has anything to do with the state of the papers?

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Mikeg, what makes you think labor has anything to do with the state of the papers?

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Why do you care what I think? You've already told everyone that I don't know what I'm talking about and you didn't offer a single shred of evidence to support your opinion.

I have a TH-FR-SU subscription to the Free Press, though I was under the impression when I signed up that I'd be getting the News on Th-Fr. I work downtown a few days per week. Those mornings, I check the free websites [[detnews.com, and freep.com) and look at the headlines only. If one looks good, I'll buy it at a box downtown. I won't pay an additional dollar for 20 pages of adds and 8 pages of news I don't car about unless there is something worthwhile to read. But, I try to support them when I have a reason to.

I won't read the E-edition even though it's included in my subscription. It's called a newsPAPER.

We are all fucking spoiled by the internet, and the ease by which it allows us to read the news online. I subscribe, and I don't ever open the stupid online editions. They are just giving their product away. Sooner or later, there won't be a product for us to steal, no local reporting, then what?

At one time my dilemma was that I liked columnists in both the News and the FreeP, but my Dad only subscribed to the News. Then came the merger and I could get editorial viewpoints from both papers in one on Sundays. My problem was solved by the merger, I could make my adjustments regarding everything else because I could get opposing viewpoints on the best newspaper day of the week - Sundays. We live in such a fast and furious time that some of us don't even realize what has been lost -- namely, focus. The newspapers helped one focus. No crawls at the bottom of the TV screen, no pop up ads online - punching away or dancing for your attention. We simply cannot lose the newspaper. Remember all the furor over the use of color in USA Today? Presentation can and will change, but if the paper record of the day goes away, and the internet and other media win the day it will cause a seismic shift in the way news is reported - more headlines, less thoughful analysis. It's happening now isn't it.

Links to Poynter on the Free Press' experiment:

http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=45&aid=172298
The first official results for the Detroit newspapers' risky survival plan of reduced home delivery show them losing readers and losing money, reports Bill Mitchell. Still, "we're a lot better off having done this," says Free Press editor and publisher Paul Anger [[left). Mitchell also reports:
* Executives believe they can make money by the end of 2010.
* An Oct. 5 single-copy price hike for the daily paper -- from 50 cents to $1 -- has chased away 28% of the buyers but has resulted in a net revenue gain.
* Usage of the papers' special e-edition has held steady at about 30,000 users on days without home delivery.
* Combined traffic to the papers' websites is up about 10% year over year.

http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=131&aid=172349
With advertising in the tank and recovery still a distant dream, at least in Detroit, the Detroit Free Press and Detroit News are looking elsewhere for a revenue boost.
Executives at the papers told me last week that they hope to double the revenue they receive from readers, shifting the traditional newspaper revenue split from 80 percent advertising and 20 percent circulation to 60-40 as part of their reduced home delivery plan.

Question:Who here would be willing to pay to read the papers on the web? Subscription, or by the click, or otherwise?

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Originally Posted by Diehard

Question:Who here would be willing to pay to read the papers on the web? Subscription, or by the click, or otherwise?

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Not I in this lifetime

The freep 6 days a week, is crap. Filled with 2 paragraph items and no real writers. My local paper, the Macomb Daily, is much, much better.

The New York Times tried to charge for content and dumped it, since no one was willing to pay for it online.

There is room for both print media as well as internet content. Many traditional papers will not survive the trend, much as many silent film stars couldn't make the transition to talkies.

How are any of them supposed to survive if everyone wants them for free?

Actually thru a loophole I was getting it home-delivered 7 days a week. Then I went on vacation and the delivery stopped - for good. I tried reading the 'graphic edition' online and I have to admit [[real paper lover tat I am) that it's almost like the real thing. And I save more than $30 a month!

Because of a loophole I was getting it delivered 7 days a week. Then I went on vacation and it stopped completedly. I tried reading the 'graphic edition' online. And although I'm a lover of the paper ed I must say the online version isn't all that much diff. And I save $30/mo to boot!

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Originally Posted by Diehard

How are any of them supposed to survive if everyone wants them for free?

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The same way TV news survives. Paid for by advertising.

The writing has been on the wall for years now. Daily newspapers, as we knew them, are becoming extinct. My fear is that local coverage will take the largest hit, with little available online to replace it.

A note to Detroit Dailies: A friend signed up at an "introductory rate" during a promotion at the Jazz Festival last September. She was later billed for August and September. Not a good way to encourage new subscribers!

The e-edition is exactly like the print edition. The only difference is the media.

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Originally Posted by ndavies

The same way TV news survives. Paid for by advertising.

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Isn't TV news traditionally a loss for the networks? From what I've read, they make their advertising money during high-rated shows like "American Idol" and sports events. [[If anyone in the biz is reading this and can provide more info, please chime in.) I'm sure most would agree that a half-hour local TV newscast - in which much of the content is borrowed from the print media anyway - is a sorry substitute for a daily newspaper.
I'm not saying it's not feasible to get by solely on advertising. Metro Times does it, weekly, without home delivery and with some low standards for their ads. But you probably wouldn't be seeing much Pulitzer material if the dailies tried the Metro Times route.

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Originally Posted by Diehard

Isn't TV news traditionally a loss for the networks? From what I've read, they make their advertising money during high-rated shows like "American Idol" and sports events. [[If anyone in the biz is reading this and can provide more info, please chime in.) I'm sure most would agree that a half-hour local TV newscast - in which much of the content is borrowed from the print media anyway - is a sorry substitute for a daily newspaper.
I'm not saying it's not feasible to get by solely on advertising. Metro Times does it, weekly, without home delivery and with some low standards for their ads. But you probably wouldn't be seeing much Pulitzer material if the dailies tried the Metro Times route.

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That may have been true for the 1 hour of national news on the OTR networks. However, We wouldn't have had a huge increase in the number of cable news stations if you couldn't make money from advertising during the news. CNN, FOX, MSNBC, Blomberg.... all seem to be surviving nicely.

Local news must be a money maker for some of the local stations, Otherwise they all would have dumped their newscasts long ago. They are either cheaper to produce than reruns or make more profit per $ spent.

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Originally Posted by Bobl

A friend signed up at an "introductory rate" during a promotion at the Jazz Festival last September. She was later billed for August and September. Not a good way to encourage new subscribers!

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Did she pay that bill? I would hope so.

Friend of mine was just hired as the copy desk chief for the Detroit Daily News startup that is apparently closer to fruition [[if they're hiring). Wonder what this means to the Freep and Detroit News - if anything.

They have dropped their daily home delivery idea, so I think there will be no impact. Also, they're unable to pay anybody right away. You might tell your friend that.

Is it "Detroit Daily News" or "Detroit Daily Press"? By Mark and Gary Stern?

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Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit

Friend of mine was just hired as the copy desk chief for the Detroit Daily News startup that is apparently closer to fruition [[if they're hiring). Wonder what this means to the Freep and Detroit News - if anything.

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Means nothing. The cost of newsprint alone could put this paper out of commision in 1 month. If that doesn't do it, paying Mailer, Pressmen and Driver wages will.

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Originally Posted by Servite76

Means nothing. The cost of newsprint alone could put this paper out of commision in 1 month. If that doesn't do it, paying Mailer, Pressmen and Driver wages will.

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Not necessarily - if they're contracting out for printing and delivery instead of hiring those people themselves. I highly doubt they're building their own printing plant and buying a bunch of delivery trucks.

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Originally Posted by Diehard

Not necessarily - if they're contracting out for printing and delivery instead of hiring those people themselves. I highly doubt they're building their own printing plant and buying a bunch of delivery trucks.

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The Macomb Daily will be printing the paper. All union employee's.

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Originally Posted by ggores

Did she pay that bill? I would hope so.

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WHY would you hope that she paid for August delivery, which she did not order or receive?
She paid reluctantly for September only, canceled the subscription, and will never do business with them again.
Remember, it was ordered the first week of September....not August.

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Originally Posted by Bobl

WHY? Remember, it was ordered the first week of September....not August.

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I speak strictly from the standpoint of being a once-proud [[and now retired) Detroit Newspaper deliverer in the hood. And it's a damned dirty business, the lengths one must go through just to earn a buck or two sometimes, unfortunately, entails some rather shifty antics, such as your friend experienced [[and I've witnessed much worse! ah!). And so, unless things have changed since those old days of yore, then number one priority is, and always will be - pay that bill, call the corporate office, lodge a complaint - and then what they will do is simply cancel that subscription unless that bill becomes paid in full. Once all print editions of the local rags are complete and total history, then these problems won't exist anyhow.

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I was wondering how the Detroit Newspapers were doing...

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....here's some six month data through Sept. 30, 2009, which doesn't include the Oct. 5th single copy price increase.

"Detroit newspapers lose less circulation than other big dailies"
[[Detroit News, Oct. 27, 2009):

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Circulation declines at The Detroit News and Detroit Free Press were smaller than for most other big city dailies, according to figures released Monday.

The News' decline was 5.9 percent from April 1 to Sept. 30, compared with the same period a year earlier; the Free Press' decline was 9.6 percent. The decreases brought weekday average circulation at the News to 167,849 and to 269,729 at the Free Press.

The results in Detroit were better than the average 12.9 percent decline among the nation's 50 largest papers.......

The Oakland Press of Pontiac saw a 7.3 percent gain; the Macomb Daily of Mount Clemens gained 4.9 percent.

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Is this the first evidence that the Detroit newspapers' new "revenue model" might be pulling them out of their death spiral before they crater?

Maybe not, since the Audit Bureau of Circulations [[ABC) has changed their methodology of counting paid subscriptions, which is likely distorting their latest circulation numbers.

"New ABC Rules Helps Some Papers Boost Circ"
[[Editor & Publisher, Nov. 23, 2009)

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While U.S. newspapers are losing subscribers at a staggering rate, a few dailies stand out because their circulation is rising. But they aren't necessarily selling more copies.

Here's why: Since April 1, new auditing rules have made it easier for newspapers to count a reader as a paying customer.

These looser standards are especially helpful to a newspaper if it sells an "electronic edition." That can include a subscriber-only Web site, such as what The Wall Street Journal has, or it can be a digital replica of a newspaper's printed product. Several dozen publications, including USA Today, sell access to these daily "e-editions" that show how the news was laid out in print.

Under the new auditing standards, if a newspaper sells a "bundled" subscription to both the print and electronic editions, the publication is often allowed to count that subscriber twice.

If not for these rules, the industry's numbers would look even worse.......

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The News/Freep put out over 50,000,000 paid advertisments last week and expect to exceed that this week. Papers aren't done yet. As the economy improves, retailers will realize that one of their only chances for survival will have to include print media, and the News/Freep are the only ones that can provide that coverage. Most of you news savy people know that papers survive and profit on ad revenue. The Oakland Press, The Macomb Daily or the new Detroit Daily News will never be able to compete with the excellence in journalism that these papers provide. As papers across the country move forward, the one key ingredient that is needed for all newspapers is finding a way of capturing the readership of those under 30.

I bought the paper today, it was decent. Enough to warrant a try for a while, in my opinion. Decent writing, more or less timely articles, not overly filled with ads.

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Originally Posted by Stosh

I bought the paper today, it was decent. Enough to warrant a try for a while, in my opinion. Decent writing, more or less timely articles, not overly filled with ads.

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Which paper? The Daily Press' debut edition?

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Originally Posted by Diehard

Which paper? The Daily Press' debut edition?

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Yes. Curiosity got the best of me. Out of 10 papers dropped at the store, all 10 sold.