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So I was looking at the One D website again, which has really shed some light on the city and its issues for me and found that "The graduation rate for Detroit City School District is 24.9%, the lowest of all principle school districts in the study." http://onedscorecard.org/ScoreCard.html#
Wow, I knew things were bad, but WOW! This has obviously been discussed by the media and other information sources a lot as of late, but what can we do to fix things in the district?
Makes headlines every June when 75% of students don't graduate.
While I am not defending DPS and I believe that regardless of formulas used to determine graduation percentage they are failing the children the formulas and data used need to be presented to paint a clear picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad
I believe that 24.9% of kids that are at DPS in a certain grade continue to graduate from DPS. When a child chooses a charter this counts as an event that lists them as not graduating from DPS, when a family moves or chooses school of choice it has the same impact.
Painting this as only 24.9% of kids that start in DPS is not truly accurate. I am certain however that the children in Detroit are not receiving the education they deserve which is a result of parents, the district and socio-economic factors.
I'd agree with JT1. I was pulled out of DPS at an early age and put into the Catholic schools. I did however take a few classes at Cody though I did not graduate from DPS. I did graduate however, and went on to get two bachelors and go to grad school. I have lived within the city boundaries for my entire life sans 3 years. Every school I attended with the exception of Eastern MI was either within Detroit or less than a block from its border. I know lots of people including young people who were raised in Detroit and completed high school.
The issue is that if you can afford to send your child to a failing school district or to a private school; or get them to a school of choice that has a better record of graduating, what would you do?
The site that OneD cites even qualifies their data for Detroit, stating:
"The method used to calculate rates does not allow for adjustments due to migration. While not as big an issue at the metropolitan level, Detroit has experienced a great deal of out migration. Losses in enrollment due to students leaving the district are calculated as non-graduate, thus artificially lowering Detroit's rate. Detroit, more than any other large district across the country, is affected by this component."
I know for a fact that Mumford, one of the better comprehensive high schools in the city, had a graduation rate well over 70% the last 15 years.
And this is particularly exacerbated in the past few years as parents have transferred their kids from DPS high schools to charter schools in [[historically) above average numbers. So that pushes the drop out rate artificially low... But it makes for a good headline to sell a newspaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
Using the same statistics above, I think our goal should be to have a 0% graduation rate for DPS. I think it would be better for the kids.
It's a sillly statistic and often misinterpreted by some of the more ignorant people here. Sure only 25% of the kids who start school in DPS end up graduating from a DPS high school, but that's simply because so many of the kids end up going to Catholic schools, charter schools, or nearby schools of choice. It also doesn't help when many familes end up moving to new cities altogether. The statistics also leave out those who might take an extra year or two to graduate, or those who go on to get their GED.
If they did do a comprehensive study on the kids, I'm sure they'd discover that well over 80% of the kids eventually graduated or received their GED. It just didn't happen in a DPS high school.
Well the 75 percent of Detroit Public Schools students didn't graduate must be those who going gangs, being a street pharmicists, pimps, prostitutes, making babies, con artists and thug living robbers. It's not just the young black kids are doing it the few whites, Mexicans and Hispanics who are growing up the institutionalized ghettohoods in Detroit. Most of them growing up in broken homes, no fathers in the lives, being abused every day and living the nightmares of gun shots or getting killed when walking down the streets.
WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET
The more adults exploit their kids, the more of the kids exploit the adults.
Neda Soltani, You always be remembered.
While I agree that this "dropout" statistic is a muddle of many reasons kids don't end up graduating from a DPS school, the various reasons for it all reflect poorly on the DPS. If the DPS were doing a great job educating students there'd be far fewer students transferring to Catholic schools, charter schools, schools of choice in other districts. Fewer families would move out of the city seeking superior schools. More students would graduate on time.Quote:
Originally Posted by hudkina
Therefore the "dropout" statistic is a poor measurement of actual dropouts but a fairly good indicator of the overall quality of the school system.
I agree completely. All of the other school districts studied had the same potential for this miss-measurement. However, DPS still ranked as the worst. This is still an indicator that something is broken, despite the way the metric is collected/measured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Det_ard
That is the understatement of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad
They are so broken they cannot even put out corrective statistics.
I completely disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad
The other school districts have not seen the dramatic loss of students that DPS has seen. This statistic, how it is used paints districts that lose a lot of students in an incorrect light.
Even if DPS ranked as the worst it is still not representing what is being portrayed. The statement, "This is still an indicator that something is broken, despite the way the metric is collected/measured" is incorrect. If you want to indicate something then the methods and statistics used should indicate specifically that.
This stat is often incorrectly perceived to indicates how many children in Detroit graduate. If you want to indicate if 'something is broken' I would recommend identifying how many children start DPS and graduate elsewhere or do not graduate at all.
I think we can all agree that DPS [[and the city) is broken. Using stats that are incorrectly used to infer 75% of DPS kids drop out and do not graduate is incorrect.
So what if the dropout rate is way lower then 75 percent. Call it 50 percent instead, that's still a woefully inadequate number of students graduating.Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
You obviously missed thepoint of my post. I am in no way defending DPS as I think that DPS is a mess and a disservice to the children. DPS's failure however don't chnage the fact that when a 75% not graduating rate is inferred it is incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
Moderator, do you think you could fix the title of this thread. It's just a little too....descriptive of the problem.Quote:
Detroit High Scool Graduation rate is <25%
If you want to measure how poorly DPS does in educating its students, you can look at test scores and other factors. While the "graduation" data parallels the poor performance of the district, you can't specifically infer the poor performance from the data collected.
It's like saying "75% of Scottsdale, AZ high school graduates did not complete the first grade!" Just because many of the students in Scottsdale, AZ might not have started school in that city doesn't mean they didn't attend the first grade somewhere else. It also doesn't necessarily mean that the school district in Scottsdale, AZ is exceptionally great. All it shows is that many of the students entered the school district after they completed the first grade.
and while you're at it, how about this too?Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole
""The graduation rate for Detroit City School District is 24.9%, the lowest of all principle school districts in the study."
Principal: Meaning: Adjective - Main; Primary; most important in a group.
Principle: Noun - A fundamental assumption; a rule of law or nature; a moral rule.
I teach at an elementary school in Detroit ,and I teach a subject where I see the whole school every grade K-5. I know Elementary is not the same as high school but I'm amazed by all the students I first meet in Kindergarten who are gone by 5th grade. I don't think many elementary kids are dropping out [[it may happen I don't know). When I see the 5th grade class in June only small percentage went this school all 6 years. Yes I know DPS has major problems and I believe has a low graduation rate, but I do not believe it is that low. More Detroit students ARE finishing High School just not at a DPS school. My former sister-in-law moved my niece to 4 different schools in a 7 year period [[ some DPS most charter) in an effort to find a "good" school for her daughter. how ever they figure the graduation rate need to be reworked maybe I'm nuts I don't believe its as low as what is reported either figure.
Let's hope Dr. Cosby can lift of the black community by having every last black kid be educated and graduated from Detroit Public Schools. He's putting the whole new Cosby Show on for DPS.
My spouse teaches in DPS. Her take - "I can't teach kids that don't show up." Their is a huge truancy problem in DPS with little or no follow up on the missing kids.
When I started the Detroit unsolved murder rate almost 70% someone suggested that it be worded more positively "Detroit solves 30% of its murders" umm that's not so positive.
Well maybe this one should say "Detroit Graduation Rate almost hits 25%" There, that sounds really peachy! Something is wrong- I'm on a school board in Texas [[a state not known for great education) however I think our drop-out rate is only about 3%- even if is per year- the Detroit numbers are comparatively staggering.
This is the BEST GUARANTEE that Detroit will have a huge crime problem way past the lifespan of almost all who read this post.
^One of the ignorant comments I was referring to...
If you don't understand the context of the data it's better to keep quiet.
Hud if you're speaking about me be specific. The only thing I see ignorant is a city with only a 25% graduation rate- you can't spin those numbers.
He isn't spinning the numbers. He is pointing out that you don't understand what the numbers represent. I'll calrify for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean2026
This statistic indicates that only 25% of kids that start in DPS [[or are in DPS in a certain grade) graduate from DPS. Thsi does not indicate that only 25% of kids in Detroit graduate. factors that decrease the number of children that graduate from DPS:
1. Families leaves the city and the child finishes at another district
2. Family is not happy with DPS [[rightfully so) and enrolls their child in a religious or charter school.
3. Family is not happy with DPS and sends their child to a school fo choice district outside of the ctiy
4. Family homeschools [[I suspect this is a very, very insignificant number)
5. Child drops out and does not graduate from DPS.
In essences you are assuming that the 75% is strictly from number 5 when the 75% is actually 1-5.
PS - Being on a schoolboard does not automatically qualify you as having any expertise in education. If school boards are the same in Texas as they are here they are nothing more than a glorified popularity contest. It is unfortuante that school boards often consist of people that have no idea how to educate a child or run a school district.
Here we set policy and the superintendent implements it. Our graduation rate takes into account transfers- Detroit's methodology is poor as in Texas it doesn't count as a dropout if someone transfers to another school- that's foolish and makes the numbers meaningless. You are correct I was ignorant of Detroit's methodology and it should be improved. You are yourself ignorant if you assume that i know nothing about education. I ran against the president of our board over specific issues. He is from here [[i am not) he was a Republican in a 70% GOP district. He was popular - I had specific issues - such as low scores and admin waste.
Being on message board doesn't qualify you for anything at all.
I don't know anything about you other than your misinterpretation of the data, and yes it was an ignorant remark, that I clearly stated would pop up in this thread. That's all that I spoke of because I can't assume anything otherwise. Well, I can assume that you didn't fully read the entire thread before posting, as I don't know how you would have otherwise made that remark.;)
BTW, there's a #6: Those that take an extra year or two to graduate or go on to get their GED despite not graduating. A possible #7 [[which would likely be the most statistically insignificant) would be those who may have died before graduation.
Someone not from Detroit isn't expected to understand the foolish way they do the methodology. Perhaps the original poster if he/she is from Detroit should have written a better headline.
It's up to you to determine the accuracy of the stuff you read. You can't take everything you see on the internet at face value.
I still have students on my attendance sheets that are no longer DPS students. I KNOW that they tranferred to another district [[some transferred last year!). I still have to mark those students absent. If DPS can't even get its records straight about who is still attending DPS then how can the statistics be correct? DPS is still being held accountable for those kids [[because they are still "enrolled" in DPS), even though they have moved out of district or transferred to a charter. I try to correct the situation by alerting those who can take the kids out of DPS rolls, but to no avail. They keep popping up on my attendance. I also have kids pop up on my grade sheets at the end of term and I've never even seen these kids' names before! Sloppy record keeping is to blame for the dismal stats.
DPS has a low graduation rate because it doesn't give a shit about students.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...ther-DPS-waste
"On his list of questions he hopes to get answered are:
• Why the property where the new Cass Tech sits was "flipped five times" on the day DPS eventually bought it.
• Why the new Cass Tech, which was so bungled the football field is too small to be used, cost $135 million while similar facilities have been built for less than half that amount.
• Why DPS moved out of a building it owned and opted to spend more than $34 million for office space in New Center.
• Why in another instance, the district paid $11 million for a piece of a parcel that the seller had bought for just $2 million.
"We will find answers," Bobb said. "
Those tens of thousands of parents who have taken their children out of the DPS over the past decade,
Are the same people who have the power to improve the DPS, since its the parents who elect the school board and can hold the school board directly accountable for the board's significant role in creating and maintaining a successful school district.
Instead of arguing with each other about this, lets have a productive conversation. The DPS has issues, I don't think anyone disagrees with this point. What can be done to better the district? What is the root of the issue, is it funding or what? and who are the people who can make these positive changes?
The root of the issue is a culture that doesn't value education.