After about 100 years, river otters have made their way back to the Detroit River. The gradual deindustrialization of the river is really starting to pay off.
https://www.wxyz.com/news/rare-sight...-cleaner-water
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After about 100 years, river otters have made their way back to the Detroit River. The gradual deindustrialization of the river is really starting to pay off.
https://www.wxyz.com/news/rare-sight...-cleaner-water
Hopefully they will be able to reproduce enough to feed the starving population that deindustrialization also created.
They spotted 1 otter,maybe it just got lost,but they did say people will be looking for them in the future,which makes sense because if you are not looking for something,you will not see it,they could have been there for years,just only came out at night when people were not around.
They are nocturnal though.
This is cool news. River otters are exciting to see in the wild for both young and old.
Richard, is shitting on every DetroitYes thread the whole point of your existence now? That is all you do morning to night 7 days a week. That is sad. Really, very sad. You should ignore the city you have never been to for a while and push away the keyboard, call up someone who is left in your life, apologize for what you said last time you saw them and see if they will spend part of the day with you. Explore Central Florida. Just be positive for a change! Worth a try. Sometimes a apology can go a long way.
^ nice try there slick,how would you know how much time I spend here without spending the same amount of time.
You live in Detroit and you have little knowledge actually about it,the otters were wiped out 100 years ago because of the fur trade and had zero to do with industrialization.
How can somebody claim it’s the first one sited in 100 years,show me the otter register where every otter that has been spotted in the past 100 years has not been registered.
Sense you live in the city,maybe you should spend a little more time learning about it and getting involved in a positive way instead of spending your time on the internet talking about things you do not have a clue about.
If you actually followed your own advice,I would have never had a reason to become involved in Detroit the first place,and your attitude certainly is not representing the city in a positive light.
You live there and could not even have bothered to spend less then 30 seconds to find out why the otters disappeared in the first place,what’s your excuse?
It does not translate into spotting 1 otter is negative news,it means if you are really serious about doing something positive and really care about the city,you would start spending every night from dusk to dawn floating in the river looking for the second otter because it did not just fall out of the sky and it has a mate somewhere and you may be surprised to find out they are people shy and will disappear faster then you can see them.
They can be in their burrows during the day and go for a swim at night and you would never even know they were there in the first place.
Maybe you should spend more time learning about the eco system in the city you live in verses spending your time on the internet.
Do not forget to apologize to the rest of your fellow citizens locally for the impact of your bad choices past and present,like you say,it could go along way.
You should try exploring central Florida,it was were Detroit is today - 40 years ago and where I am at is the 3 rd city that I have been in that has gone from being crap to the top of the list in a short amount of time.
When I first moved to Orlando the downtown was more vacant then Detroit ever was,today it is bustling 24/7 and you can hop on the light rail system that connects all the suburbs to the downtown and they are finishing up the connecting routes where you can take it from one end of the state to another.
I do not need to be in Detroit to understand it because I was already where you are at today - 40 years ago.
If some of you that keep parroting,you never been here,spent the same amount of energy contributing to helping and supporting the ones that actually are making a difference or trying to make it a better place it will get there.
But it is much easier to go on the internet and saying things to others that you would never say directly to anybody’s face,while thinking you are hiding behind a fake screen name.
That may seem productive in your book,it’s not in mine.
While you are out there discovering the rest of the otters,bring your camera and grab a photo of a snipe,you could be the first one with documented proof.
For all anybody knows the poor critter used to live where they are building the new bridge and was displaced,homeless now,or could be a Canadian born otter jumping the border escaping over to Detroit,illegaly.
Either it has been there all this time or something forced it from the habitat where it was,that’s the real story.
At this point, I only count the number of paragraphs....although, that's getting old too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit
Ya think it might be a bit more productive counting the otters ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maof
Or do their lives not matter,if you really cared you would start an adopt an otter program and help protect the little critters from extinction again.
River otters are making a comeback in Detroit...
FAKE NEWS!
What an unbelievably strange thing to be triggered by.
Not triggered by it,watch the video included in the link,they say there have been numerous sitings in recent years.
It’s the way it is being presented,if you spend time around the water and nature in general you see things are just considered a part of nature and it’s a moment in time.
The student was shocked because he saw nature while out in nature and they used that and turned it into an environmental issue,just like in the OP.
The advantageous of de-industrialization.
The argument could be made that the city traded 2.5 million people for a otter,nature and cities have never coexisted,otherwise you would see deer,bears,rats etc with the ability to run free within the city let alone the millions of natures bugs murdered every day by fly swatters and other chemicals used in pest control.
How many millions of innocent mosquitos are murdered every year just because they are out looking for food to feed their little babies.
The bug was there before your windshield was.
Its a first time that somebody was actually looking for it and had a câmara on them to document it.
A city slicker that was shocked that he discovered there is nature out there if you actually take the time to look for it.
But increased development could have forced them to relocate but apparently they have been there all the time,so it would be different if it was truly the first siting in 100 years but they admitted it was not.
How many people in the region read the headline and said,wow it’s the first otter siting in over 100 years we are making progress after getting rid of that nasty industry base,even though we do not even know how many were actually there 100 years ago in order to compare the number.
Its cool that the otters are there as they are a part of natures eco system,just as a rat is,as long as they are not enmass which creates a problem within it self.
Its not fake news,it was using the media to manipulate people,the next step would be for the state to issue a $5 million grant to the university in order to investigate the return of river otters that never left in the first place.
Canada has some beautiful untouched nature,you can see all the critters you want including river otters in abundance,drop a city down in the middle of that,industrial or not there will not be so many.
Another couple of months the headline could read
The fur trade returns to Detroit after 100 years providing jobs and opportunity back to the city that de-industrialization removed,thanks to the river otters.
Or
Dead river Otter found on the bank of the river with its head caught in a plastic jug,people do not really care otherwise they would stop using the plastic that is destroying the waterways,but then it would actually be an inconvenience.
It may come as a shocker to some,but there are plenty of examples of where industry and Mother Nature co-exists,it’s not a case of either - or.
Ah so you are offended at the inference on behalf of all industry. Cool. I also love how there is a conspiracy angle by the media here as well. No issue is too big or small for the tin foil hat I suppose.
There have been river cleanup and success stories for years now regarding other species. This may be hard but I tend to take the word of people in this field over Florida-man who sees motive and conspiracy in absolutely everything. The river is cleaner, be that from deindustrialization or a concerted effort to better regulate industry, so it stands to reason that nature would respond to that, just as it had in various places during the pandemic with less human activity and industry.
I live adjacent to downtown and frequently will see pheasants, wild turkeys, foxes and the occasional report of a coyote. That is what happens when man's impact on the environment is lessoned, these animals return to areas they wouldn't have previously been at. The river in particular has always been impacted by industry and waste. It is a simple fact to acknowledge but you want to point at the media and blame people who don't recycle and apparently turn it into some sort of anti-industry propaganda where all this is is a story about documentation of a species returning to an area that they were thought to have left long ago.
You're a perpetual outrage machine. Find some joy in life.
Print an article that reads the otters have returned to the river after 100 years,after one is spotted.
Then in the same article say there have been numerous siteings in the previous years.
So they never really disappeared after being wiped out,they had 100 years to come back.
I see why you are defending it,because you share the same mentality and think it is normal.
I wonder how much of nature returned when the human factor was removed from the equation during the lockdowns?
Poor little otters probably thought - yay the humans are gone we can live in piece,now that one has been spotted the warning will go out - they are back.
I do not have a problem with man’s impact being lesser on nature.
But what you fail to comprehend,all of those people fleeing there which lessens the impact there,did not just evaporate,they fled south and are now destroying nature here,by the millions.
You did not deindustrialize,the steel mill hauled ass to another state and city,all you accomplished was to lose a tax base and good jobs,so you really did not do anything,you waited for somebody else to make the move.
Your own pension funds are not spending billions there to make it a better place,they are spending billions destroying the coast line in order to build condos here,to house the millions fleeing from there.
So all you did was shuffle the problem out of your back yard into others and into other countries,instead of coming up with workable solutions you dumped it on everybody else so you can look good,which is exactly what you are doing in your replies.
In case you have not noticed while sitting in a city with a 83% poverty rate,unless you find a happy medium,you are going to slowly starve to death.
But hey,double down on what you are doing maybe you can get people to leave faster so there are no humans left there to impact nature.
You live in a house,in the suburbs,when there was already plenty of houses in the city,for you to do that,it had to be built by destroying or replacing the nature that was there before,it’s okay because it is your house,so your personal impact on nature is okay,it’s the others that wear tin foil who are the ones that are wrong.
Some pretty strange social conditioning going on.
Everything else ,you are a day late and a dollar short.
Do you drink bottled water? Yes or no
Deflection is not a solution.
Personally I do not care about the article,I have never eaten an otter so outside of their fur,do not care one way or another.
The only thing I am calling out is the media hit job and false narrative that people such as yourself so easily fell for.
Your stance is remove the dirty industry and nature will resume,point blank,while totally ignoring the fact that pulling the rug out from under the industry that supported you,no longer does,you could have had a clean river and clean industry.
Eliminating the population is the easy part and it stands to reason the impact will be less.
We have a thing in our rivers called a sea cow or manatee,they get massive up to 800lbs,they like warm water and freeze to death when it gets cold and the water temperature drops.
When it gets cold do you know where you can find hundreds of them in one location,at the discharge pipe from the power plant,it sends warm water into the bay as part of the cooling process,it’s an example of industry and nature working together,without it they would all be dead in a matter of days,with out the power plant we would not be able to charge all the future wannabe EVs.
So we can co-exist just as the otters have apparently locally there long before the 100 years as touted.
Shame on you for using the otters in order to push a narrative,they did not agree to be used as a poster child,you guys keep using the media as a weapon.
Nobody cared about the otters before,otherwise they would have been tagging them and tracking their movements for the past 30 years.
Who sat down with one and asked them if they like clean water or dirty water,they may not care either way,it’s easy to say they like clean water because there are lots of them in the pristine parts of Canada,but it could be they just do not like being around highly developed éreas.
They are not exactly a scientific test used as a standard of water quality,I am sure they crap and piss in the water, so it’s not like they are doing their part.
Next it will be - I saw a snake on bell isle see how much nature is returning while under state control?
Just a snippet... just wondering if his random sentences strung together, make any logical sense at all? Or better yet, if he doesn't care about the article, why he even posted? :confused::eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
it would be brilliant performance art if we didn’t know the truth. How someone launches into a stream of consciousness over an otter video in a city he’s never been to is nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Sad news: Another recently recovering indicator of environmental heath, the bald eagle, is hurting from the recent bird flu contagion.
Two steps forward, one step back. :{
You do not even live in the city,you just used it as your playground for profit on others misery,did you ever even pick up a bag of trash on your way out?Quote:
Originally Posted by southen
Clearly you can be there and have zero positive impact on it.
17 states protect river otters,guess which one does not and you can even get a permit to have one as a pet,so do not pretend that you actually care about them now.
Getting back on track... as far as the origins of the lake otter that was found in the Detroit River, one possible source is the St. Clair River Delta emptying into the northern end of Lake St. Clair. It is described as the largest freshwater delta in the world [flowing into a freshwater destination].
There are dozens of islands in the river delta, and all but two [Harsens and Walpole] are unoccupied, with many on the Canadian side being swampy.
There is an article out there where Ohio ended up manually introducing them into the river system and they ended up spreading across the entire state.
Bit they can swim up to 7 miles,so do they set out and set up new colonies every 7 miles?
When they go out at night they use their whiskers to detect vibrations for their prey,Kinda like a snake,so it would be understandable they might not like hanging around densely populated areas that emit lots of different vibrations,including ship traffic.
A simple search told me all of that.
A simple trail cam with night vision along the rivers edge,or,but do not tell anybody,just walk along the rivers edge and look at the marks/critter prints in the mud,don’t not need a collage degree in order to tell you what swims about.
The fur trade that wiped them out was not only in Detroit,it was everywhere in the country,kinda like they did with lots of other critters that fed and clothed countries.
The onslaught against the bees is more dramatic then an otter,we survive without them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
So, what’s your point?
Go ahead and do away with all the other animals, just be mindful of the bees, just so your fat fanny can go on living?
Do not be mad because you realize even the otters are smart enough to escape oppression.Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck
Good thing we have open border polices so they will be safe.
My Fanny is skinny,you seem to be obsessed with fat ones,so that makes me safe also.
I am sure next time you see a deer about to be hit on the highway,you will jump in front of the car to save it from harm,I would hate to think you let it be sacrificed just so you can go on living.
Legalize weed they said ,what could go wrong.
River Otters Matter.
Your reality distortion field is impressive. I haven’t photographed an abandonment since 2009, have lived near downtown since 2012 [[that’s in the city since you aren’t super familiar) and I logged over 100 hours of volunteer time in the city. But hey, you know everything from your computer down there in Florida so I’m probably mistaken on my own life lmao.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
You know how 99% of people interpreted that article? “Oh that’s cool, I love otters.” Only you would take that and make it a political and conspiracy stream of consciousness.
^ lol I was going by what you posted - as in you live just outside of the city,I also live 1 block outside of the city limits which puts me in county and zero input on city matters,outside of owning businesses within the city,which does give me some input in city matters and still supports the city without me actually being there.
Not sure how some cannot comprehend it’s entirely possible to support a city in many different ways without actually being there or maybe people just operate on different levels that some have no clue about and will never experience.
It’s a lame comeback based on one’s lack of ability in how cities function and the metrics behind it all,just because you do not understand it you feel nobody else can.
I do tip my hat to you though you were able to poll 99% of the population in less then 1 week,you are clearly in the wrong business.Do you really think 99% percent of the population is that gullible and I have the only mind in the country that thinks like I do?
That would put me up into Einstein territory,personally I do not think I am there,but as much energy that has been put into telling me the opposite I have to think I struck a nerve that requires so much opposition,otherwise you would just thought,Meh and moved on.
If you are that concerned,go down to the river side,document and identify the footprints in the mud,erase them and go back the next day,o think you will find there is a lot more going on there then you think,when you actually look for it.
I am sure 99% of the population that have seen an otter there in the past 100 years said cool and moved on,but I have not been around long enough to get an accurate poll to say they have not.
Love otters ,before that article how many days a week did you even ever think about an otter?
You should have included that question in your poll of the 99%.
It is an example of how you can use the media in order to plant a seed in peoples mind and creating something out of something that did not exist.
If they had left out the part where there has been multiple sitings in the past,it might have been a bit more plausible,but then they would have run the risk of multiple people coming out and saying,where have you been,I see them all the time.
So it was never about the actual otters,they were just used as a prop,like you say,everybody loves an otter,who can resist that smooth fur on their neck on a cold winters day.
Reading comprehension, or comprehension in general, isn’t your strong suit. I literally said I live adjacent to downtown. Since you are a google expert perhaps you should google what downtown means or the geographic boundaries of downtown Detroit. It doesn’t bode well for the rest of your arguments or ideas if you make the initial mistake of misinterpreting something that is pretty obvious and come to the exact same conclusion after reviewing it again. Actually I think that makes perfect sense for you.
Also, as someone who is a member at the Zoo and donates money to wildlife and environmental organizations I have had otter conversations before and I am guilty of sharing otter content with friends on more than one occasion, silly millennial that I am.
I do think there are more people that think like you, which is really the problem. You sit on a keyboard and talk about a place you have never been to and discuss how simple it is to determine a species population as if people don’t go through years of schooling and studying to master these skills. You go at length for hundreds of paragraphs spitting things that you just searched and passing it off as knowledge you possess. Countless times people have pointed out your misinterpretation of what you are posting because you don’t actually know what you are talking about. Experience matters. Expertise matters. Copying and pasting things from the internet doesn’t equate to knowledge.
I think it is an interesting question to pose regarding how animals are counted and the scientific reasoning behind any claims. That’s not what you did here though. It’s a conspiracy propagated by the left and the media to further hamper industry and send those jobs away. Your proof? The question “Who was talking about otters before?” Bingo. Nailed it. If anyone questions that sound logic then they likely don’t recycle or do anything to help their community, at least not nearly as much as the Florida guy and his google.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southen
You must be a dang pinko if you don’t have a strong but unfounded opinion on“everything" ,southen.
Beavers have returned to the Detroit River and it tributary streams and
now otters have returned. Will the coureur des bois be the next to return?
I would love to see Pasquinal paddling his canoe up the Rouge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renf
The Coast Guard comes for people who canoe in the Detroit River. My family learned this from personal experience. The stated reason was to keep canoers safe from the lakers. Various groups kayak and canoe in the Rouge River but bass boats are seen in the Rouge River on nice days more frequently. [I have a view from the far side of the 'dead' tree with the cormorants in it - the flock had almost fifty cormorants in it at one time but now there are just a handful of them. EDIT they all came back this afternoon, so there's still almost fifty there, but they are expected to leave soon.] [So it's less of a free country if the Coast Guard tells you not to canoe in the Detroit River. On the plus side they are said to have new improved software to track people who are drifting in the water needing to be rescued.]
I looked up a distribution map to check on where the otter may have originated. Upthread there were suggestions that Ohio obtained some and placed them in various Ohio rivers; also otters live in the Harsens Island environs; but this distribution map has interesting gaps where river otters are not found.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_...adensisMap.svg
There is a sliver of land across Michigan that doesn't have river otters in this map. Otters aren't found in Ohio but they are found in Michigan generally. The Windsor tip of the Ontario Peninsula is devoid of otters in this map. Then there is another sizable otter free sliver in New York as well. Tell me what that's about! :) Was it somehow polluted in that area?
https://www.newyorkalmanack.com/2021...er%20pollution.
"Historically, river otter could be found throughout New York, but they declined due to unregulated hunting, habitat destruction, and water pollution."
"From 1995 through 2000, 279 river otter were captured in eastern New
York and released at 16 different sites across the western part of the state."
Effectively the otter free wedge in New York has not been repopulated with otter yet, either via otter migration or by rehoming otters.
EDIT - the otter free wedge in New York is actually in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania has some otter free rivers due to acid mine drainage.
I do like that Richard pulled up Joel Thurtell in the Ms. Conyers, Esq. thread [if only to note that Mr. Thurtell found out that Ms. Conyers failed at all four tries at the Michigan Bar Exam, which IS a very difficult and nerve-wracking test - I have seen people study for it].
https://www.joelthurtell.com/
Mr. Thurtell co-wrote a book about paddling the Rouge River in 2005.
https://www.amazon.com/Up-Rouge-Padd...ks%2C67&sr=1-6
I don't think too many lake otters will be paddling up from Ohio... with the high water levels, the Detroit River would be pretty challenging for any critter paddling up against the strong current going downriver...
The otter was seen on the Windsor side of the river, but if it had to originate from Lake Saint Clair or from Ohio I would guess it came from Lake Saint Clair [though if the river current is a problem it will be staying to the south hereafter and might be from Ohio eventually].
That's what I thought... the river current can be up to 10 knots at certain times of the year [and location along the river].Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpling
Quote:
Originally Posted by renf
J’espère bien!
Do the math - $75 per pelt,get 5 per day $1800 for the week,beats making $15 per hour.
To top it off here is a good otter recipe
https://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2015/02/tantalize-your-tastebuds-with-a-river-otter-recipe/
As they say - Mother Nature always finds a way to provide.